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Healing changes

Discussion in 'Archive of Previous Tests' started by Storm, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Healing Skill

    For healers with 80 skill or greater in healing and anatomy, at half the Heal Duration for self heals, healing will attempt to remove poison and bleed effects. This will reduce the amount healed when the heal is finished its normal duration.
    Max Heal Duration Reduced to 8 seconds.
    Slip Damage Now Scales based on Dexterity
    **Faction Bandages do not require the healing skill and so function using the old healing methods.


    Cure Potions:
    Success chance for curing poison with cure potions has been adjusted.

    Cleansing Winds:
    Should no longer heal target after removing mortal wound.

    Enchanted Apples:
    Cooldown Increased to 45
    They now have a chance to fail depending on the level and number of curses applied to the user.
    Failure does not invoke the cooldown period.
    Petals/Poison Immunity:
    Deadly poison and stronger now have a 25% chance to break the poison immunity granted by orange petals.


    posted by logrus
    Slight mistake in my wording, it should be Greater than or EQUAL to GM Poisoning or Magery. Poisoning won't be going up to 120 for now.

    The Focus effect is automatic. Basically once you hit 30 in one of the other skills you no longer receive the effect, but as long as you remain under 30 you are fine.


    If your normal heal time is 4 seconds at 140 dex ( and greater than 80 heal/anat), then you have a chance to cure the poison at the 2 second mark. If you succeed your final heal will amount will be reduced in proportion to the poison level that was cured. If you failed then you will make a second cure attempt at 4 seconds.
     
  2. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Just for curiosities sake.. why did healing need a bump. Healing is pretty effective for what it is, in that you can heal on the run without stopping to cast anything

    Also wanted to note, after a little pvp on test center, the 45sec cooldown on apples is kind of nice, but it really sucks when someone just wants to chain blood oath you. Any way to sort of differentiate the timers?
     
  3. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Or just make resist work better against it, or have an entirely different condition under which to remove it.
     
  4. PaithanTheElf

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    1. Apple timers NEED to be at 45 seconds. Anyone that says that is to short is crazy. The timers used to be 120 seconds people (with no complaints when they first came out). People are just used to getting cursed, appling and running around for the 15 second timer. It is pathetic to watch and the timer needs to stay at 45 seconds minimum.

    2. I agree with chad- there should be another item like an enchanted peach created to remove ONLY mortal wound ever 15-20 seconds. 45 seconds of taking mortal wound could be impossible to live through if you do not have chiv/mystic.

    3. Healing should not have a chance to cure twice. They already can chug a cure before their bandaid, now they will be able to chug and possibly cure twice or cure then heal? That is a horrid change.
     
  5. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    @ 3: It has a chance to cure twice but you do not know the failure rate. Also they modified cure pots to fail more often on higher end poisons. So maybe it is more balance with having 2 chances to heal than you might think at first glance. Also the cure then heal would be a reduced heal based on the amount of poison, I assume this is to combat Mystics ability to insta heal/cure/remove curse.
     
  6. PaithanTheElf

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    Mystics do not have an ability to insta cure/heal/remove curse. They have to stand and cast it. On top of that, when mortaled, it will no longer heal. It is a bad change.
     
  7. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    But when mortaled you can't heal with band-aids either...so that's balanced still. And having to cast is the same thing, 1 spell still takes care of 3 things right?
     
  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    This bit confuses me. As far as I remember petals don't grant immunity for deadly and stronger anyway, only greater and below?
     
  9. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Paith, are you planning on chain blood oathing everything that attacks you o.0

    chain blood oath and like you mentioned, mortal, are the only two things i see a serious problem with for the timer. If they keep the "focused mages" thing on par, you will have to sacrifice damage to be a necro mage, in which case you can have all the fancy curses. so thats a nice trade off, but blood oath is just gunna suck for a full necro if you can't apple it. guess i better get faster with my feeblemind macro!
     
  10. PaithanTheElf

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    Having to cast is not the same thing what so ever as someone being able to heal on the run. Having to stand still and get cast on/hit by a dexer with a chance of disrupt is completely different. You clearly play a dexer.

    1 Spell takes care of two things- mortal/poison.

    And on top of that- this is about two chances at curing or curing/healing with the same bandaid being over powered. This is not a debate about cleansing winds vs the new bandaids (although you would lose that as well).
     
  11. PaithanTheElf

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    Do not derail the thread. I always have cast oath a good amount. The thing I will be sad about is changing my mystics back to necros.
     
  12. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Right but how long does blood oath last for a full necro. If you are pretty inept at casting it in combos, you can pretty much guarantee your opponent will always be bloodoathed.


    Then mortal... my god mortal.
     
  13. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I don't have a single dexxer for pvp on a single shard. But thank you for taking the assumption. I shall now assume you simply can't get by with current tactics and abilities offered to you.
     
  14. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Are we sure that healing with no anat does not lose because it fails the poison check?
     
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    What are you trying to ask here Picus?
     
  16. PaithanTheElf

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    Sure, I get by fine. I switched my necros (which can kill people- just takes a long time due to apples)- to mystic. Problem solved. If you want to try me out let me know what shard you play, im sure I have a char there to show you how well I get by with the current play state. Otherwise, let pvp comments from actual pvpers. Thanks.
     
  17. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Probably need to fully test the healing change, something i haven't gotten to.

    Maybe cleansing winds shouldn't cure mortal at all, maybe thats the change that is needed for the protection/mystic crap too...
     
  18. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I have no problem with healing,curing,mortal one at a time
     
  19. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Wow, my question was a clear as mud.

    I can check when I get home but: if you have a temp with say 110 healing/0 anat and you apply a bandy while poisoned and have the timer go through the 2 second cure check, fail the cure due to no anat does this then give you a healing reduction?

    Reason I ask is few of my healers run anat(stealther temps) due to the past where we never failed via pots and limited extra healing for the points invested. I try to time mashing the keys just prior to the bandy timer so I don't have to deal with being poisoned right away and losing the heal outright.

    I have plenty of other guys who are 100/120 but those gimp temps have become stuck on it.

    Hrmm, my ablity to clearly explain stuff is gone today.
     
  20. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    So you were asking if healing is reduced if you fail the 2 second mark check. And the main reason it was not clear was because it could have been two different things you were asking, plus you said "are we sure" like you were commenting on something posted but I did not see anything about not having anatomy. I, like you, can not test it right now so I can not answer you fully.
     
  21. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    With the apple change something should be changed about faction bandages. They are gunna be abused bad for removing curse.
     
  22. Saint of Killers

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    Faction aids "will be looked at" once they start getting abused for the next 6 months.
     
  23. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Yea I was rather puzzeled by that too, orange petals has ever only worked against level 3 poison and lower...are they changing them too or are they just wrong about them?
     
  24. Roland of Atlantic

    Roland of Atlantic Journeyman
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    I'm pretty sure what they mean is that the act of being deadly poisoned will "turn off" the effect of the petals sooner than they would wear off naturally. Therefore making you again vulnerable to lower level poisons.
     
  25. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Right, I do believe you are correct.
     
  26. Violence

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    Re: Healing

    Enchanted Apples:
    CD Increased to 45

    Failure does not invoke the CD.

    > I see that this clearly IS way more balanced. But not invoking CD on Fail?.. Why?..

    Healing Skill
    At half the Heal Duration will attempt to remove Poison and Bleed. This will reduce the amount Healed.

    Max Heal Duration Reduced to 8 Seconds.
    Slip Damage Now Scales based on Dexterity

    > Reduced to 8? Don't you mean INCREASED to 8? Did I get something wrong? Then, so, basically you allow Healers to remove ALL major effects AND Heal though not fully.. How is this balanced along with Potions and a zillion other ways to recover Health and remove various effects?
    I see this as a BOOST. Not a BALANCING measure. A boost which is not really required, is it? As you clearly did not put new Timers on any Pots.

    **Faction Bandages do not require the Healing skill and so function using the old Healing methods.

    > I've been gone too long, and never used Healing on my Characters. I take it then that the old method was that 1 Bandage/Attempt = Remove 1 Effect and without removing Effects, can't Heal?

    Cure Potions:
    Success has been adjusted.


    > Yeah okay, without a Timer you're not doing ANYTHING. Are you.. Srsly. This will take ANOTHER 4 years of constant EXPLAINING to fix, after it took you 4 years for this change? Uhhhmmm. Either fix it for serious or stop teasing with miniscule redundant tweaks...?
     
  27. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Couple things, first. Faction bandages need their remove curse ability adjusted.

    Secondly, from experience against necros and archers/throwers on test center, i can definitely tell you a few things from my testing on this

    1. Blood Oath is king of defense/offense. Either blood oath needs adjusted and scaled more with resisting spells, or another form of removing it needs to be in place.

    2. Mortal also needs adjusted, either in the form of a timer that only allows you to be mortalled say every 15 seconds at the most, or soemthing else needs to be able to remove the curse.

    3. 45 seconds feels a tad high, and obviously 15seconds was too low. Maybe 30seconds is the answer. But honestly, i think i'd be ok with 45 seconds if blood oath would be changed. The only other thing that will suck from a necro is running around with the strangle effect on you for 45 seconds.

    4. The *half way bleed/poison check* kind of sucks. Healing was an excellent alternative to say 4/6 chiv healing for a dexer. It allow you to be on the move and never stop to heal. There were only 4 ways to really disrupt the crap out of a heal from a dexers point of view.. Bleed and Mortal. The bleed one is sort of nullified by the speed of being able to remove it with bandages and get a potential heal. The mortal one is overpowered (as stated in number 2). The 3rd option that will exist now is poisoning however. Not sure what to adjust here but think it needs looked at a little.
     
  28. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: Healing


    On the faction aids.... just get rid of them or something.

    On the cure pot adjustment, go test it, the timer isn't necessarily needed. I burned through 9 cure pots once in testing trying to cure a lethal from my mage. Most of the time it was 3-4 give or take, but that was a hell of an RNG run. The poison changed isn't bad
     
  29. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran
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    Cure pot change hasnt gone the whole way we all expected but i think we should let them run how they are right now. I think due to pot weight increase and a few more nox mages present it will work just fine. Players will run out!

    Apples i still think it should be lower theres more gank out there right now than 1 v 1. But i wont throw my teddy out if this it released.

    Heals kinda stupid. Its Amazing ofc way too good! and im totally confused why this has been altered? was healing on the run not a good enough incentive?

    Like most of this whole pvp so called 'balancing' its inventing new things when we all want the old things fixed i.e. bugs!
     
  30. It seems to me healing is going to be overpowered.
     
  31. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    The chance to cure at the mid point is also significantly lower that the chance to cure at the end.
     
  32. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    You chance to cure at the mid point is a fraction of your chance to cure at the final point.
    Failing the mid point cure attempt has no effect on the final cure attempt.
    This change doesnt alter the final cure chance for healing so if your final chance is less than 100% you can definitely fail to cure on both the mid and final attempt.

    This change applies to -self heals- only as previously stated so cross-healing and resurrection are unaffected.
     
  33. mon2000

    mon2000 Guest

    About Enchanted Apples

    I am opposite to the plan to which the cooldown of Enchanted Apples extends at 45 seconds.
    If the plan is adopted, "Sleep" of Mysticism will be greater
    and PvP players can't enjoy the battles.
    Though you say the cooldown was 120 seconds in old times,
    the situation is different from that time.
    "Mysticism" and "Gargoyle" had not been adopted yet at that time.
     
  34. Violence

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    Re: Healing

    Sorry but even if it took 10 Pots guaranteed before an LP was Cured it would still be silly. If you can use Pots 1/Sec, that is. :pint: :pint: :pint: ... ;P :rant2: How many discussions will be needed before it's clear that it would be better if they simply allowed 1 Pot = GUARANTEED CURE but give it CoolDown? At least better in comparison to what they are planning to do, assuming they planned this as a "FIX" for PotSpam.

    About that other arguement, I have to rely on "Luck" now? I mean, whether or not my target has been fighting and forgot to stock and so on?

    And as for Healing, Logrus here tells us clearly Healers have now actually 2-In-1 attempts. Unless the cup of caffeine I just had hasn't kicked in yet. :dunce:
     
  35. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    In regards to the pots, why not do something similar as the Witcher. Bring in Toxicity, the more potions you drink in a short time span the more Toxicity you get, when you reach a certain Toxicity level you cant drink anymore potions until your Toxicity level decreases some. Tie it to a skill or a stat if you will aswell.
     
  36. Violence

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    Re: Healing

    That'd do. Tied to Taste ID? Alchemy? Cook?
     
  37. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    This is already true, although I agree generally with everything else you said.

    Perhaps make the 2second tick scaling based on anat/healing and at 120/120 it be 100%? I am not sure how else to appease on this matter.
     
  38. Another Lamer

    Another Lamer Journeyman
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    Don't be daft.... There are too many alternative ways to heal rather than to use 200 skill points.

    To be honest it's about time healing had some tlc. Back in 2003/4 when they nurfed it, they destroyed all heal mages (a fun template that was never overpowered).

    These new changes will a whole new set of templates. At the end of it, if you spend 200 to 240 skillpoints in a skill specific to healing/defence the reward and benefit should be far greater than those who say spend 160 skillpoints (classic 80/80 heal anat) and far far greater than the 70 chiv people have tended to run with.

    Let's see these kind if changes happen, it might make people think twice before cramming lots of low-level skills onto templates to make those gimp templates we all know ..... Hate ..... And get very bored with.
     
  39. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Bleed is treated as Level 3 Poison
    Poison/Bleed Remove Chance at Half Duration = (Healing + Anatomy – 120 ) * 25) / (PoisonStrength * 20)
     
  40. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    What's the calculation for bandage slipping with dexterity now?

    Is it still this? Interruption will occur if the healer is hit for more than 26 damage by a monster or more than 19 damage by another player.
     
  41. Violence

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    Re: Healing

    Yes, you will Another Lamer.. And you'll RP it 24/7 or else...! :sad3:

    EDIT : I ROFLed!!!!! "TASTE MY ID! TASTE IT!" .. I can picture you screaming that, while doing the CC Casting Animation during ID Checks in RL..
     
  42. John Galt

    John Galt Guest

    45 Second apple timer is too short, it should be 60 seconds at least.
     
  43. Vexxed

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    @ puni666....

    Tried to test this today also. I only Tried 2 different dexterity Values though.

    @ 150 Dexterity Bandage slipping will occur at 21 Damage (0-20 does NOT cause a slip.

    @ 124 Dexterity Bandage Slipping occurred at 20 Damage (0-19 did NOT Cause a slip)

    That wasn't really different enough for me to take interested so I also checked that each "SLIP" reduces the Heal amount by -35% which is STILL the case. It appears the biggest change to healing is the "Halfway" Heal/Bleed cure attempt. Other than that it got buffed, but so slightly that the other changes aren't really noticed.
     
  44. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    What about 10 Dex or 30 Dex or 60 Dex or 90 Dex?
     
  45. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    Logrus should post how much dex vs dmg is needed for slips etc.
     
  46. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Should :twak:.