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Healing with bandages is just to dang slow

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Good_Ole_Lefty, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. After dieing repetively in this event to those winged critters. Even at 4 seconds on the run doesn't seem to help.

    I feel investing in 2 skills and investing a lot of stat points in dex. A 4 second heal seems like I am being short changed for a skill that is slow and easily nullified by poison.

    If I could throw a bandage on as fast as a mage can cast a greater heal as well as being frozen for a split second would be fine by me.

    The alternative now I am faced on my dexer is to resuit him and use chiv, while sacraficing HCI,DI,as well as DCI. Grrr, ok im done raving...
     
  2. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Honestly, i kinda agree with you. Healing has become so unreliable since chiv. As hard as healing is to train, it should be better. At 85 healing and 73 chiv i can res someone with noble sacrifice faster than i can with a bandage everytime. You just fail too much.
     
  3. Nico-SP

    Nico-SP Guest

    pots,aids,skill your kidding right?With aids and pots i never die...
     
  4. Sptfyr

    Sptfyr Guest

    With playing a mage and a warrior I think that there is both good and
    bad with the way they heal.

    However, crosshealing with bandies are your friend. Two
    warriors can cross heal while both getting beat/cast on in half the time
    than by yourself.

    Two mages cannot do the same without being interupted!

    In a chaotic situation, I would choose healing with bandaids everytime over
    casting and fizzling constantly without healing a single point and having to stop
    running while doing it to boot!
     
  5. Wolfthistle

    Wolfthistle Guest

    Unless of course you have protect cast. Then you don't fizzle unless you get mana drained to zero or paralyzed. You sacrifice some physical resist and 35 points of magic resist, but its not too hard to cast heal quickly. And running my mage with 85 points of resist isn't bad (120-35 = 85)

    My main is a dexxer and I agree that it is slow, and you can't use pots if you use a 2 handed weapon. I get by with running gm necro on my dexxer and using vamp embrace, that way when you hit, you heal... most of the time, with regular healing, thats enough. But regular healing on its own isn't a stand-alone skill against high game anymore, thats for sure... just too slow.
     
  6. StarlaUO

    StarlaUO Guest

    I prefer my dexxor with bandies heal. Add in healing from chiv heal, confidence, vamp form life leach, wep leach and pots. If you have spirit speak, there're curse wep and spirit speak heal too. If bandies time is shorten it would be even better... Mage's greater heal can get tricky in tight situation. Spamming mini heal with 2/6 casting is more reliable.
     
  7. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    well all you mages can say what you want. least when you cast heal ro gheal you knwo what your getting. if a mage or warrior does any special it stops the aid. if you take so much dmg you get 33% healing amt reduced every time you slip.

    its very lame.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You cant shorten bandange heal time though because of the effect it would have on pvp. Which is why it was capped awhile back if anyone remembers.

    4s is still incredibly fast, and make its tough to take down a dexer with pots. And if they got resist ever harder cause its a ***** to cycle ;P
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    pots,aids,skill your kidding right?With aids and pots i never die...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    With POTS and aids sure. Some of us do not want to use pots because the character template we use requires specifics and we cannot use the pots.

    I felt exactly the same through this event. Slow heals cause death and even though i have chiv it fizzles if you get hit so you end up dead anyhow.

    Bandage healing needs to be on par with mage healing. Saying that this would be unbalanced is just plain BS. even with the best bandage healing you can get your still left short of a good healing method using it. You almost have to have some other way to heal between bandages to prevent death.

    I wouldn't even care if bandages healed less damage if they were much faster the problem is that while bandages will heal a lot of damage they take so long to do it that you die waiting for them to hit.
     
  10. Supplement your healing with whatever other skills you have. Cast close wounds, or spirit speak, or curse weapon, or confidence. Drink potions. Hit and run so that you're not taking too many hits in a row. Adapt, use a little strategy.

    Don't just stand there in front of the monster like a rock, trying to "tank" it and crying because you can't just spam bandages every 4 seconds and be invincible. My necro/samurai kicks the crap out of these wannabe-angel things solo.
     
  11. Sid Vacuous

    Sid Vacuous Guest

    Tact did mention a while back of making bandies heal in ticks, which might be useful. And if we did get shorter bandy times you'd need to heal less per bandy or risk making healers unkillable.

    As of right now high resists and HP really make bandies a lot more useful. Buys the time for the bandy to work (usually). Resist spells also helps against poison spammers. Like Lefty says though it's an awful big skillpoint investment for what you get. Healing/anatomy should be the premier healing form in the game given that skillpoint investment, and while it does have its advantages, its still far too easy to stop a bandage healing and/or reduce the amount heal to sod all.

    If I was the devs I'd start by decreasing the size of the healing reduction caused by finger slippage. Then I'd look at the way poison and bleed effects bandies. Maybe make it they don't stop healing entirely, they just reduce the amount healed (to say half). Also be nice if bandies healed a little stamina. Of course you'd still have to balance all of this.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Bandaging is best used in a x heal situation, friendships have been struck up that way.
    I can't help wondering how we ever managed to survive when bandages took 12 seconds. I seem to remember we jousted quite a bit.
     
  13. It's crummy that the whole balance seems to be set up to expect/require people to use pots in PVP - even bandies are basically balanced against pots.

    I don't want to (and don't) run a potion chugging script on my archer like the impossible-to-kill archers do. But its like, the game balance holds me to the standard that those people have created.

    I kinda wish pots would be removed. They are certainly among the most abused items in the game. And yes, I know how they've been in the game for eternity, longer than healing itself, but back in the early days people weren't scripting their use like now. They weren't a cheat tool to create near-impossibility-to-kill like they are now.

    A more realistic thought perhaps is, either remove them, or make them able to be automatically chugged by a server-side process so that everyone can get the full benefit of them, not just low-pinging, pot scripting people.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    does any special it stops the aid

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Say what?
     
  15. Pothoz

    Pothoz Guest

    Hard to train Heal? a day of healing and i went from 40 to 85.2 (To be exact)


    But yes its unreliable, i use UOassist program so i apply a bandage then chug a greater healing pot meanwhile so i have ABIT more HP atleast incase of emergency
     
  16. Nixon[I-C]

    Nixon[I-C] Certifiable
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    Healing doesn't need boosting at all.

    Use pots.

    Thanks.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Healing doesn't need boosting at all.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ditto.

    If you cant survive without pots, adapt for the occasion. Its only what we have been doing for how long now? (adapting)

    I've been ganked by those monsters alot of times, but you don't see me here posting that casting needs to be increased to 4/6 again because I wasent smart chooseing my battles, and didnt take extra measure (like brining pots) to avoid death.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Enough with the use pots BS some of us just can't use them for different reasons. Besides that healing with bandages shouldn't require you use an alternate method why the hell should I have to have 2 ways of healing when I am dedicating 2 skills and a large portion of stats to one of the methods?

    Simple as that either stop requiring dex to use bandies and make them a set amount of time to kick in leaving anatomy to determine the amount healed and healing to determine chance to heal successfully or cut down the amount of skill needed for healing. Right now its a whole lot of requirements to heal with such a crappy success rate. The biggest problem I see though is the added dex requirement to be able to heal. Stats should not be linked directly to skills such as swing time and healing time. Yeah you should need them but not like they are used currently.
     
  19. "Enough with the use pots BS some of us just can't use them for different reasons."

    Please name some of these reasons? With the exception of garlic based pots &amp; vamp form, what reasons do you have? Please expand on this statement.


    "Besides that healing with bandages shouldn't require you use an alternate method why the hell should I have to have 2 ways of healing when I am dedicating 2 skills and a large portion of stats to one of the methods?"

    Balance for templates. If you choose to have healing, or not to, they each have their ups and downs, with equipment needs &amp; sacrifices to go along with them. For the record, I currently do NOT have healing on my dexxers template, yet survive just fine, and for the most part do NOT use pots unless I'm going against VERY high end creatures.


    "Right now its a whole lot of requirements to heal with such a crappy success rate."

    At GM Healing you dont' fail to heal. Please explain.


    "The biggest problem I see though is the added dex requirement to be able to heal. Stats should not be linked directly to skills such as swing time and healing time."

    Again, this is all part of the balance for templates. If you weren't required to have max dex for max swing speed and heal times, then a warrior could pump those extra points into INT, and realistically chain specials, even with the mana increase.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "And yes, I know how they've been in the game for eternity, longer than healing itself,"

    Nope, Alchemy wasn't introduced into UO until either late Beta or soon after Beta, can't remember which. We didn't have Pots. We had Healing with Bandies and Healing with Magery though.

    Back before AoS, everytime you were hit with ANY amount of damage, it disrupted your bandage. You could get hit with a Magic Arrow, and it would disrupt your bandage, making you heal alot less damage. One reason why we jousted, that plus the slow healing times.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    He's talking about Archers with Balanced Bows. They can chug pots without disarming their' bow. No other warrior template can do that while holding a 2-Handed Wep.
     
  22. Pots take waaaay too long if you're an archer.

    Archers are ranged. You don't take physical damage from an attacker as long as you maintain that range, only magical. If worse comes to worse, run, heal, run back. That's all part of being an archer.


    I don't bother using pots at all cos how long it takes to unequip, chug and re-equip - fair enough it's slower for me cos of connection speed, but that's even more reason for me to not use them at all.

    Archers have access to balanced bows. Yes, they cost a small fortune for a really good one, but they're still available. I actually don't use any pots on my archer at all except for Invis pots, and it doesn't matter if I have a wep in my hand or not at that point. Even with my lack of using pots, I've solo'd just about every paragon in the game with him.
     
  23. Nixon[I-C]

    Nixon[I-C] Certifiable
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    Connor pretty much summed it up.

    If things were to change, how would you alter it so it doesn't have an adverse affect on PvP? You couldn't.

    If you don't want to use pots, fine. Adapt your tactics.
     
  24. "Connor pretty much summed it up."


    *runs out to buy a lottery ticket*


    [​IMG]
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Archers are ranged. You don't take physical damage from an attacker as long as you maintain that range, only magical. If worse comes to worse, run, heal, run back. That's all part of being an archer.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Heh - that may work if you have a connection that lets you do that - I don't =P There is no "maintain that range" for me =P Doesn't matter if I play an archer or a swordsman, beasties can (generally speaking) move faster than me =)

    That's really irrelevant anyway, regardless of whether I can stay in range or not, unless you are lucky enough to find a balanced bow, pots take *way* too long to chug as an archer.

    I don't use pots either, I'm usually too busy looking for a way to escape whatever's chasing me [​IMG]

    *edits to add* I don't know how long it takes to cast and heal with greater heal spell, seems like it's quicker from posts on here, but it does seem to me only logical that at GM healing, it should take the same amount of time as a mage G-healing. It's a specialised skill, whereas mage healing is a generalised skill - being a specialist healer *should* give me an advantage over a mage healer
     
  26. If you want to go up against hard-hitting event monsters yet are too stubborn to even drink a potion, then go ahead and die.
     
  27. That's really irrelevant anyway, regardless of whether I can stay in range or not, unless you are lucky enough to find a balanced bow, pots take *way* too long to chug as an archer.


    As I said, with the exception of Invis pots, I don't use them at all. Between bandage healing and Confidence from Bushido, my archer can survive just about anything. I wouldn't even waste the time or gold on a balanced bow or a Heartwood kit to make one for PvM usage. If I'm in a situation where physical damage is forced on me, it only takes 1 meleer teaming up with me to handle that. I've taken on a DF without moving with a single meleer crosshealing.
     
  28. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    The general health over time for bandages considering that they don't stop you at all from doing anything else is too much... but having a bandage disrupted by bleed, poison, or mortal wound is devistating.

    The problem is that they're overpowered in some situations, and underpowered in others.


    If healing with bandages took take less time, healed less per bandage, didn't re-start when you start applying a bandage to a person who you are already applying a bandage to, and blocked the usage of potions, spells, and specials... I think things would be better all across the board.
     
  29. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    I'm sorry, but I can't agree.

    Unlike other healing skills (Chiv, Magery, SS, etc.) you can use Healing to heal without freezing. In other words, you can keep fighting even while healing. 4 seconds is a small price to pay for that.
     
  30. viper of flames

    viper of flames Journeyman
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    at 150 dex and 115 healing/115 anom im so slow it does hurt watching a mage cast 1 sec heal after each other to full health while im still around 8hp.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My heals are not 4 seconds they are 7 until I get low on stam then they are 9 so it's not a small price the price is about 6k and the time it takes to go get a rez cuz you die waiting on a single bandage to hit.

    My red has the fastest heals possible and they are also healing the most possible and it is still an eternity before my heals hit. That character however is not able to use pots in combat period the template and suit just aren't set up for it and I have to rely on bandages only.
     
  32. My heals are not 4 seconds they are 7 until I get low on stam then they are 9


    Healing speed is based on Dex, not Stam. It doesn't matter what your Stam is at, your healing speed never changes.
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Remember when it was 13 seconds?
     
  34. Unfortunatly this is turning into a mage vs dexer argument, but for argument sake lets make this simple. Mage vs Dexer healing

    With a mage all you need is magery to heal. (My bard) at 115 magery heals ~50 pts every time.

    With a dexer you need healing and anatomy. (My samauri) at 90 healing 100 anatomy heals ~30 pts every time

    So for 115 pts in magery (sure you can get interupted, unless you have protection) you heal for ~20 pts more everytime and it only takes 1 maybe 2 seconds to cast (without fc/fcr). While healing with 190pts and max dex it takes 4 seconds to heal healing a less amount.

    It needs a balance.

    If you say use pots, mages dont need to carry weapons and can use pots easier than a warrior especially if warriors have two handed weapons, so that argument is invalid.

    And yes, it takes different tacts to be a warrior than a mage, and yes you cant just stand toe to toe with high end monsters you have to have some tacts like jousting.

    IMO Evaluate Intelligence should be used to calculate the amount healed.
     
  35. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    I don't have healing on my dexxor... I have SS/nerco, Chiv, bushido.. How many ways do I need to heal? healing skill is like the WORST of my options right now
     
  36. It needs a balance.


    There is a balance. Bandages can't be interrupted while mage heals can.
     
  37. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    It needs a balance.


    There is a balance. Bandages can't be interrupted while mage heals can.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah.. bandages don't frezze you, be totally interrupted (they can lower the damage you heal), and are easy to self apply now (UO marco).

    Bushido, chiv, magery, SS can be interrupted...

    And the nercos require you to hit..

    Pots require one hand to be free and carrying extra resources.
     
  38. I love bandage healing.

    -Galen's player
     
  39. <blockquote><hr>

    It needs a balance.


    There is a balance. Bandages can't be interrupted while mage heals can.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Protection anyone? Have that on and you dont get interrupted. If you get hit for 33% of your health while your healing your bandage's usefullness is reduced by 50% because "Your fingers slip"
     
  40. Protection anyone? Have that on and you dont get interrupted.

    Yep, and you cast like you're in mud too. Plus you still freeze while casting, while with bandage healing you can do it on the run. You can also continue to fight and do damage with bandage healing while you can't with magery.
     
  41. sarloth

    sarloth Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    ... I felt exactly the same through this event. Slow heals cause death and even though i have chiv it fizzles if you get hit so you end up dead anyhow.

    Bandage healing needs to be on par with mage healing. ...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't know if you checked recently, but mage's healing spells fizzle when you get hit just like chiv. Bandage healing doesn't fizzle every time you get hit, and when it does it isn't a total failure. If you want "magic healing powers" use magic, whether it be chiv or magery. Bandages take a bit longer, and heal a little more.
     
  42. <blockquote><hr>

    Yep, and you cast like you're in mud too. Plus you still freeze while casting, while with bandage healing you can do it on the run. You can also continue to fight and do damage with bandage healing while you can't with magery.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You still cast faster than using a bandage, and how is it any different no matter what healing your using, if your at 20 life your gonna run regardless what your using.
     
  43. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Supplement your healing with whatever other skills you have. Cast close wounds, or spirit speak, or curse weapon, or confidence. Drink potions. Hit and run so that you're not taking too many hits in a row. Adapt, use a little strategy.

    Don't just stand there in front of the monster like a rock, trying to "tank" it and crying because you can't just spam bandages every 4 seconds and be invincible. My necro/samurai kicks the crap out of these wannabe-angel things solo.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Uhmmm the hypocracy is a lil thick here... Are you high?

    Trash someone for wanting to "tank" a monster with bandaids.

    And then gloat over how your gimplate can "solo" them...

    Do you even read what you write? Or hear the thoughts bouncing around your noggin?
    [​IMG]
     
  44. "I'm sorry, but I can't agree.

    Unlike other healing skills (Chiv, Magery, SS, etc.) you can use Healing to heal without freezing. In other words, you can keep fighting even while healing. 4 seconds is a small price to pay for that. "

    Better reread my post. I did mention that I wouldn't care if I was froze in place, as long as the heal went off.

    And for the record 4 seconds = 2 Greater heals and maybe 1 heal or cure in the same time frame and that is with just one skill, not a double investment of skill points.
     
  45. LoL You still around Croaker! Well ya I remember, but it seemed like 10 seconds, but back then if you had GM Resist , archer suit and parry, you were a god and this new generation thought evasion was tough.
     
  46. "There is a balance. Bandages can't be interrupted while mage heals can. "

    In Nox need I say more? Mortal?, bleed?, slippage? Remember doing x amount of damage reduces the amount of hp healed within the applying time. Think it was 21 damage.

    I rarely get disrupted on my mage while healing (i dont use protection). You can time your heals pretty dang good on a mage. I have yet to get disrupted toing a heal + G heal combo.

    Anyways this was not ment to be a mage vs dexer argument. I think if even a warrior applying bandages and being frozen in place people would complain, because they lose out on target practice.
     
  47. Pretty much all I'm seeing here is.....

    Wahhhhhhh I got poisoned it in interrupted my bandage!


    Get pots, get chiv to cure.....


    I'm seeing a large trend of... people doing things wrong or being lazy and saying that you can't counter it...

    Should we just make this game easier than it already is?
     
  48. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *Shrugs*

    Here is the way that I see it. You are spending a minimum of 200 points for the ability, between Anatomy and Healing. That 200 points only grants you one ability, and that is to heal. Therefore, it should be a damn good skill for all the points invested. Most other skills have multiple additional abilities (Chivalry, Necromancy, and Spellweaving), or do not even require invested skill points (Alchemy and Life Leech Weapons).
     
  49. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The imbalance came with the speed cap and setting max bandage speed at 4s, or 5s when cursed. This is a huge window during which damage causes the bandage to slip.

    Then the advantage to magery is that you can spam heal for a quick fix and then get a greater heal off when you get a chance.

    So what we need is that bandage times are halved along with a halving in the damage healed.

    This would speed up the seemingly awfully long time between bandages (especially if you have to cure poison too) and it would also reduce the chance for a bandage to slip. All without changing the total heal-over-time so no one can say its a dexxer buff or that PvP will be ruined.

    Perfect solution, uh?
     
  50. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And I believe the bandage times were invoked in the day when 225 hard stat cap was in place.

    With the ability to go to 125, the time should be scaled with THAT as the best possible time ... mebbe like below with 1 sec increase per 25 DEX under that.<pre>DEX Self Other
    125 3 2
    100 4 2
    75 5 3
    50 6 3
    &lt;50 7 4</pre>&lt;shrug&gt; Just thoughts ... dunno how REALLY practical the times are. I just know it needs to be better.