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Help us from Tyranny raging in Japan! Friends in UOSS, Draconi, Cal, Kilandra, Crissa

Discussion in 'UHall' started by athos_uo, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    EA Japan has changed localize file in these days. They have translated some English words into Japanese in cliloc.jpn file.

    It was done on the 13th February at first time, which angered most Japanese players very much.

    Some people might think it be funny that we are angered at that English words are translated into Japanese. But we are already accustomed to these English words and are not dissatisfied with that.

    But EA Japan changed them without asking us about it.

    Most Japanese people got angered and sent feedbacks to prrotest them.

    On the 18th February, Yossie, the producer of Japanese localizing team, posted a statement about this: Statement of EA Japan

    He said that this change was made for new players to go into the game more easily, but Japanese players are not convinced with this clarification, because we know all that UO is hard to get used to not because the words in it are English, but because its game system is very complexed.

    Besides, he stated clearly that he would hear from players and would be willing to accept any kind of feedbacks.

    I read this statement, and we have begun discussing about this on Britannia Bibliothek, since the first change(13th. February) and I brought up all our disscussiions and made some Qustions.

    On the 2nd March, I opened these Question to EA Japan UO team in public: "Questions to EA Japan UO team in public." and sent it through a feedback form on EA Japan official website.

    We have continued our discussion after that, and we don't have answers to our question yet.

    But today, as you know, a new client patch was delivered and the localize file was changed once again!

    Why? Haven't they said that they would accept our feedback? Why don't they hear from us?

    I personally think that the appropriate localization be necessary. But it should be done with our agreement. They have done it taking no account of our discussion.

    Please help us, friends in UOSS, to fight a tyranny in Japan. I'm deeply desmayed by EA Japan once and again.
     
  2. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *sighs* Good luck friend.
     
  3. PASmountaindew

    PASmountaindew Babbling Loonie
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    Wow once again the Asian servers got something we didn't. They got some words that were in English translated into Japanese. We didn't get any of our English translated into Japanese. :(
     
  4. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    You all can read them, putting the following line into uo.cfg:
    UserLanguageCodeString=JPN
     
  5. Vessel

    Vessel Guest

    Hello, Athos

    Have you checked your posted? You didin't write down "Limit time".
    So, Thay can reply after "This time JPN file update". Is it ok?
    (I think your message is very interested, and I feel it is tough work for EAJ, your questions are very difficult, and need to care for reply.)

    And I can't find where you send this letter, By E-Mail? By send mail CGI in JPN Site?
    Please don't say "Only upload in my site". You should send message directly.


    Some of points, I want to know detail.
    And hope you and All of Japanese Players make UO in Japan re-build better!

    Regards.




    Oh, Sorry. Forget to write down my thinking.
    Translate Japanese wording: Basically Agree. I think all of wording should be change to Japanese. If there are some of "Not suite" words, we can send message via Web CGI.

    You say:
    Why? Haven't they said that they would accept our feedback?

    I think it is not right wording. EAJ says just only "welcome your feedback". NEVER said "ACCEPT FEEDBACK". Feedback is just only feedback. If thay REALLY accept all of feedbacks, UO will be dead. Do you agree this view-point?
     
  6. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    This entire thread confuses me. :confused:
     
  7. Littleblue

    Littleblue Seasoned Veteran
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    I was thinking about starting up a character on one of the Japanese shards, as I used to play there many years ago.

    If everything is to be changed into Japanese-only though, it might be pretty hard for me. That would be a disappointment...I loved meeting new friends and being apart of the Japanese UO Community, and was thinking it could be fun to try it out again.
     
  8. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    I parabolize it:

    EA UO team thinks one day: "Kal Ort Por is hard to understand. We must translate it into English, so that our players can understand it easily."

    Players find that they say "Summon Warp spell" when they use the spell as they know as "Kal Ort Por".

    They get angered: "This is not the UO that I love." They send many feedbacks against this change.

    EA UO team is surprised and posts a statement: "I apologize for doing that without letting you know about this. Please send any kind of feedbacks."

    So some players discusse about this and post their qeustions to UO team on UOSS in public and send the same questions thorough feedback form.

    Players get no answers to their questions.

    After ten days, another patch is delivered. They find that they say "Make great Life" when they use the spell as they know as "In Vas Mani".

    Players are in despair. <- Now here.
     
  9. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Ahh, that seems to give UO less immersion... not good (no bueno), by my thinking :(
     
  10. Millie

    Millie Guest

    Let me see if I understand this. The Ea Japan Teem has decided that the words "Kal Ort Por". are to hard to understand. So the have translated them to the words "Summon Warp spell".
    Since I do not know to much about Japan shards. Please explain.
    Aren't all the words in your game writen in Japan? Or is it that the game words are in english and only your typed words form player to player are in Japan?
    Are you saying that they have translated the words Kal Ort Por in to the english words "Summon Warp spell" or the equvilent of the same words in Japan? Im realy kind of confused about it all and would like to understand.
    I do know if they are takeing words like "Kal Ort Por" and changeing them in to differnt words, it will only confuse newer player and drive away the long time players.
    Once you learn to play a game with certion words weather real or made up it is hard to relearn new words. And the Main Man of EA should be on some ones ass if this is the case. UO needs new players, not to drive old ones away.
     
  11. Erica3

    Erica3 Guest

    It agrees.
    I wanted to change after a certain answer at least.
     
  12. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    This is a parabolization, and is not always accurate. Kal Ort Por is Kal Ort Por as before.

    We can type and read in Japanese even if we use English client. But in English client all the messages are of course in English.

    In Japanese client(=this means, to put "UserLanguageCodeString=JPN" into uo.cfg), we can read some NPC's lines in Japanese or messages in quest gumps, etc.

    But names of items were all displayed in English until Valentine's day of this year. In Valentine's day patch, they changed the cliloc.jpn(this file is used if you put in"UserLanguageCodeString=JPN" into uo.cfg) and names of some items are displayed in Japanese.

    E.g., "sewing kit" was displayed "A Sewing Kit" before, now it is displayed as "裁縫道具".

    I personally, as I stated before, this translation is better. But some translations are ugly and have no sense.

    We discussed about this and send questions and feedbacks to EA Japan.

    But they have made other changes, taking no account of our feedbacks.

    I'm afraid that Japanese players would think they made discussion and sent a plenty of feedbacks in vain, and as a result, they would get dicsouraged in improving the game by their discussion and feedbacks.
     
  13. Vessel

    Vessel Guest

    Go- me- n- ne- (Sorry so much!)

    In other words, it is just only local trouble. This change nothing to effect to you all. (Yeah, some of Japanese says this change couses communication trouble in UO with English speakers, But I don't think so. Still some of UOer can communicate with you in English, Most of Japanese don't welcome communication with English.そんなもんやる気の問題だ)

    I can't tell "This happening" detail situations. This transration issue became big-trouble in Japanese UOer. I have no ability to explain all of situations to you in English(我是日本人!)
    AND I can't find any reason why Mr. Athos made this thread in UOSS. It is not related to world wide UO service. (Maybe, He wants pressure from UOSS or EA to EAJ, I think.)
    At last, UOSS members cause confuse. Nothing to get from this topic.

    そういう事は、理を尽くして日本国内で議論するべきじゃないかと思うな、私は。
    It is necessary to carry out the reason and to discuss this problem in Japan、I think.
    正当な理由ではなく、圧力で事態収拾するのってのは良くない。
    It is not good to solve the trouble by using pressure without the valid reason.
     
  14. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    This post has no sense. Why do you feel sorry for my post? Are you responsible for my act?
     
  15. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    athos I am sorry to hear about this. I know Kilandra and Draconi went recently to Japan to discuss the needs of the playerbase there. Perhaps an email to one of them might help?
    It's the only thing I can think of to do.
    Please let me know if I can help you. I will try if I can.
     
  16. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    Thanks for your concern, as usual!

    Oh, they were in Japan? What evil things were they thinking at this time!( Of cource it was said as a little kidding, "what amusing things" actually!)

    Thanks again, I'll try it.
     
  17. PorkChopSammiches

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    Tell me if I understand correctly.

    Some of the game text which used to be displayed in English is now displayed in Japanese. You aren't upset about that. But some of the Japanese translations are silly and make no sense, and that does make you upset.

    Can Draconi or someone else official come in here and explain just how UO Japan and UO America/Europe are administrated? Who exactly is calling the shots on stuff like this over there?
     
  18. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm not upset with that. I'm upset with that EA Japan has done it without letting us know about that previously.

    Actually, no. I think bad translations would be corrected through good feedbacks from UO communities in Japan. I'm upset with the fact that EA Japan won't make good communications between them and UO communities.

    I think there are many core players and active UO communities in US , like UOSS, UOForums, TheLostLands. And above all, there are direct, good communications between devs and those communities.

    They announced a statement including apologize regarding to their not letting us know about these change previously and reqeust for our feedbacks. I thought that this is a good opportunity to make sound communication between UO Japan team and UO community in Japan. We have discussed for a long time about that, spent several dozens hours and I have drown together some general questions and problems from our discussion and opened them in public to EA Japan UO team.

    But they took no account of our feedbacks. I'm afraid that players are discouraged and I think that one of good opportunities to make sound communications between EA Japan UO team and us is lost. We have now a credibility gap in us.

    This makes me upset.
     
  19. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    We had that problem a few years ago... the new Devs changed it all.

    Keep the Faith.
     
  20. Kuronosuke

    Kuronosuke Guest

    /agreed

    The Japanese OCR team manager Sage Sandi ,He had promised as "the object name displayed by clicking a mouse cursor does not carry out Japanese localization. This is consideration on dealings with an overseas player.",snce in March, 2001

    But, EAJ localization manager Yossie having forced localization including an item name. and disregarded the protest voice. It is saying that feedback is welcomed in the formal manifestation to a protest.
    Japanese user's anger and feels big disappointment to the reckless run of EAJ.
     
  21. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    I hope your post here helps you out. I always thought the EA Japan team always listened to its player base. Im sure if you have enough upset people something will be done.

    I do feel for you. Our Dev team..............


    (AWWW Snickers I told Chrissay no Dev bashing for one month.)

    What is it 8 days left? or 18?
     
  22. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    The words 道具 brings up images of chindogu ^_^"...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I meant no offense, I am a chindogu fan! Just trying to lighten up the mood :D
     
  23. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    On a more serious note, bad translation aside, I think some localization would really help new players. Makes it easier to explain to a newbie which item is a 針箱.

    What would be better is maybe some sort of toggle that activates localization in separate parts. Meaning you can toggle if you want it for items, spells, NPC names individually. That way older players can still choose the settings they like.

    Oh, and add town crier messages to localization too. For those of us gaijin (外人) that come visit the Japanese shards during AOS slime/Casca/New Year events hehe. It's a pain to find the correct Kana/Hana characters and type them into a translator T_T
     
  24. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Thank you very much for explaining this to me. I love UO and have for 11+ years. However, of late I have felt very much like EA cares less for us (anyone other than the Japanese player base) than the Japanese player base which make me very sad. I always thought I would be here until they close the doors on UO, but I have my doubts now.

    Good luck in your quest to fix this!
     
  25. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Since when are the magery spells english?

    Aren't they latin?
     
  26. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    Here are my "Public Question from Britannia Bibliothek to EA Japan UO team."

    Yossie the producer wrote that "Please send in any feedbacks" in his official statement on EA Japan ofiicial website on the 18th February.

    Responding to this statement, I posted the following public questions from players on my website on the 2nd March and sent in to EA Japan UO team through feedback form.

    Then, taking no account of these questions, they delivered the next patch including new localization on the 11th March.

    I think they had enough time to answer to these qeustions. Why don't they answer?

    [Public questions to EA Japan UO team from users of Britannia Bibliothek]

    (1) Originally, what caused you to change localization at this time? You mentioned one reasen in your statement:"We gave priority to new players' opinion that "too many English prevents them from getting acustomed to the game", and Yossie changed how to display things." But many players think that this reasen doesn't convince them. I think it is absolutely necessary to show the enough reason to convince people, who are not dissatisfied with the current envirronment, that the current environment should be changed.

    (1)-(b) You stated that new players have opinion that "too many English prevents them from getting acustomed to the game". But you can understand "too many English" in several different ways. They might hate "English words" or might not be able to read "English sentences" or would not like even to look at alphabets. How do you understand this? And why do you choose your understanding?

    (2) About the process of localizing
    (2)-(a) The process as it should have been
    In the case that you made changes which affect our game play very much, you should have asked players about it. The process as it should have been would be as follows:
    1. Announcing previously
    2. Do all the translations at once
    3. To make the general ruling for the ways to translate and make translations based upon those rules.
    4. To open public the list of what was changed
    5. To request for players' feedbacks at each stage of doing localization and reflect them in results.

    (2)-(b) how to proceed localizing from now
    Players have their own views on the ways how to proceed localization from now.
    1. Some players think that all should be wiped once, then EA Japan should begin the right way from the beginning, that is, to hear from players about localization itself.
    2. Other players think that multiple changes would confuse players, so the rest of localization should be done based upon the right way.
    Which way are you going to take?

    (3) alternative ways for localization
    Players have some alternative ways for localization:
    1. To have an opiton in 2D client to add Japanese tranlations of names of items to the items.
    2. To put in both English name and Japanese name

    (4) Main philosophy by doing localization
    Players have some different views on localization of item names itself.
    1. Some players prefers the easiness to understand by localization. These players think EA Japan should translate names of items from English to Japanese.
    2. Some players prefers smooth communication between English-speaking players and Japanese players. They think that names of items shouldn't be translated into Japanese, because there might occur miscommunication among players if names of items are displayed in other ways.
    Which view does UO Japan team prefer? If you prefer one to another, please show us the ground for it.

    (5) Priority of localization
    Many players think that UO is hard to get to accustomed not because names of items are displayed in English, but because other system messages are in English. Shouldn't you translate system messages that are not translated into Japanese before you translate names of items.
    E.g. server down message is not translated into Japanese, but displayed in English as follows:"Servers will be down in two minutes."

    (6) Specific questions
    1. I suppose that EA Japan UO team seems to be going to proceed localization of item names to address the problem that new players quit soon. How do you think the localization of item names is effective to this problem?
    2. Many players think many new players quit the game soon after they start the game not because of "too many English" in game, but because of complexed game mechanism or exploits rampanting like dupes. How do you think about this?
    3. To which extent does EA Japan UO team think to proceed localization? E.g. considering localization of other languages, casting spells seem not to be localized. Please show us what is not to be translated.

    (7) Specific Wish
    1. I wish EA Japan UO team would accept feedbacks from players herefrom and EA Japan UO team may collaborate with UO communities in Japan to improve the game.
     
  27. KilandraEAMythic

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    Greetings Athos,

    I will take your feedback to the EA Japan team. While I can't guarantee a specific outcome, I can certainly ensure that the feedback is heard. :)

    ~Kilandra
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *smiles* I really like this team.
     
  29. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    Thank you very much, Kilandra! I can't express my thankfulness with words...This is the very reason why I really love this game.

    Thank you very much, my friends in UOSS! I wish we could improve the game together. Thanks to kelmo, to Flutter, and to others!

    As Kilandra already states, I don't know what would be an outcome, but I'm convinced that this team really *hears from us*.
     
  30. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    KilandraEA will you also ask Chrissay if I can be let off the hook about bashing the Dev team?

    Its not personal I just really wanna chew into Wilkie for the fun of it cuz I luv him.

    Or ask if I can just poke at him :)

     
  31. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    athos_uo, you have long been a dedicated member of the extended UOSS family. I am glad you got some attention. *nods*
     
  32. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    I have a question every so often you see someone talking with the Chinese or Japanese characters. How do they do that do they have keyboards with little pictures on them?
     
  33. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    OT

    But I like Kelmo's musical tastes :)
     
  34. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    You can just copy it from a website and paste it into the game.

    By the way.. why don't we ever get a timely response from the devs when we have an issue? Maybe we should go to the UOJapan team and they can forward it.
     
  35. TheChocolits

    TheChocolits Seasoned Veteran
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    Sigh, I wonder if I could even ask the same for EATW (EA in Taiwan), frankly I don't even know whom we run under or none at all, we used to have a sorta EATW Taiwanese community coordinator in UO right after the korean GM incidents but which was short lived as they dont seem to be around anymore.

    Even while they were around, they did interact with us about the translations in chinese in our chinese forums (like putting certain words up on vote polls as to which chinese meanings fits best, etc.). But now they're just 'dead' even our EATW UO official website is stale (as u can see in the news it stopped updating at pub 52.)

    Well, at least all I can say is that u guys are far much luckier to have someone(both EAJ & US Mythics) hear u out or even have ur shard-only events, which we(formosians) on the other hand, just feel like the forgotten child, can only hope one day to be remembered again.:sad4:

    Wish u the best of luck athos_uo.:)
     
  36. TheChocolits

    TheChocolits Seasoned Veteran
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    They might've done as Sweeny said, or their computers have the language system in which u can type it out, like in english u have the ABCs same goes for the Chinese n Japanese chars, we do have our 'ABCs' on the keyboards which when typed out there'll be a number of chars to choose which u want.:D
     
  37. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    Can't help it but giggle:

    All your base are belong to us




    sorry for the troll....
     
  38. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    Hello, respectable Britannians in Stratics!

    Today, we got answers to our questions from EA Japan UO team!

    I think this owes to your help, especially to Kilandra's help!

    Thanks to Kilandra and to all!

    --

    I must report what is the outcome.

    They answer not to all our questions, but to some ones of more importance.

    (1) About the aim of localizing
    They mention the same reason as before, but this time more clearly.

    They think that old players already accustomed to English used in the game have no problems, but it would be one of higher hurdles that prevent new players, who are interested in playing the game, from starting the game. Localizing would have great importance to invite new players into UO. And they say that they are responsible for offering well localized game for players in that area and they didn't respond in doing that in the past.

    (2) About the process of localizing
    They say that they often can not announce the change of localizing previously, because the schedule of updating depends on delivering of client patch by UO devs team. They'd like to communicate with UO devs team more closely.

    This doesn't answer to what we want to know. I know the fact mentioned above, but we ask EA Japan UO team to open what they are going to translate into Japanes public previously. They can open words to be changed public soon after they finish translation. It needs not to be annoouced just before delivering patches.

    I don't know if it is by intent that EA Japan answers beside the mark.

    --

    They mention some plans about localizing:
    - To make a list of what Japanese translation comes from an original English word.
    - To translate system messages into Japanese
    - To look for other ways to display names both in English and Japanese

    --

    We get good answers to an extent owing to your help.

    But I can point out some bad things:
    - They had no intention to announce about localization of this time previously
    - They had no intention to ask us whether they should forward localizing. Localizing itself is already decided and not to be changed.
    - It seems that they have no intention to make close communication with UO communities in Japan. They didn't answer to our public questions spontaneously, they did it scarcely if it was not suggested by a dev(s).

    But we'd like to change them, sometimes with your help.

    Thanks again to all!
     
  39. Kula

    Kula Guest

    I agree with Athos and hope that his concerns are recognized.

    It was wrong for UOJ to translate the Latin (the language itself and the alphabet) spells used in Ultima Online into Japanese.

    Hardly anyone in the USA knows Latin, so what has happened in Japan is akin to translating every spell in Latin into English to appeal to a wider, WoW-like, audience.

    It's like renaming Ultima Online to Самая лучшая игра Oн-лайн to try and appeal to a Slavic audience. When in fact you're just turning the game into something it isn't and you're pushing away your veteran/true playerbase. Though I can't speak for any Russians who play this game, I would assume they prefer it the way it is :)

    Anyway, from what I've learned, everyone in Japan with a computer and the internet is familiar with English - they may not speak it but they understand the Latin alphabet and various words. And like I said, we're all in the same boat when it comes to not understanding the Latin used in UO: but it's a part of UO and learning about it is exactly part of the essence of what makes UO appeal to those of us that have enjoyed playing it.

    So I do hope they realize that trying to make the game more appealing, by changing aspects we love, will in fact make it less appeal to their loyal customers.

    -

    Let me just add that by making this change that is in game it doesn't actually draw more people to investigate UO. What they are attempting to do is get the people that log in for the first time to be more familiar with everything in the hopes that they stay.

    Changing the language of the Latin spells is not going to change the learning-curve in UO. This change is really not going to earn more money, and since they have angered their veteran playerbase, it seems like it will do more harm. This harm is magnified when you consider that an angry community is not something you want new players to be introduced to when they first start playing.

    If a person enters UO for the first time and sees "In Good Health (written in Katakana)" instead of "In Vas Mani" it isn't going to make them think "Oh I love UO, I must stay!" especially if they are wandering around the bank and reading conversations from people saying "Oh boy, look at these Devs, they've ruined my day once again!"

    Basically it looks like someone forgot to think of the consequences of what may have seemed like a well intended change.
     
  40. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Athos and all,

    I am sorry to hear that there are troubles between the playerbase in Asia and those who work to improve, modernize update and upgrade the game you all play.

    I do not recall exactly how many years ago we here in the states underwent what I thought were dreadful changes at the time. We lost many of what I thought were important componants of the game like and olde english font, set as default, and an ability to "feel" tied to the world of the game itself through NPC interaction on a very high level.

    While none of these changes have ever been reverted, we have been allowed to access some of what was lost as options in the menu of the game itself.

    I will hope that you have access to play the game as you have grown to enjoy it though options such as these, as much as I continue to hope that much of what we "lost" as a gameworld will one day be restored to us.

    The funny thing is, that the stated reasons at the time for the US and European changes was to allow for a better and more even handed game experience for folks in the Asian community.

    Your exhuberance for a game that I have enjoyed for so long is affirming in that perhaps in part to our losing some of what made UO Ultima Online for us for so long helped to build the community that now feels the loss enough to cry out as we once did.

    Domo Arigato