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HELP!!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lady Storm, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Can anyone get a gm page ?? I am going frantic ....

    Went to one of my castles to get a few things and found I was not allowed in... i cant get in the house and my friending is gone offf all my characters to that house.

    Went ot the e mail and tried to see if any message nade!

    Went to billing .. you know how they say you cant unlink well 3 of my accounts are now gone off the link and it wont let me relink them..... The castle account it tells me i have the wrong password!!!!!

    I have not changed it~!~~ Sorry I am freeking out and I cant get a bloody gm if my life depended on it!!!
     
  2. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    Can you see the name of the owner on the house sign? There was a database maintenance and it could simply be that causing the problem.
     
  3. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    The house sign is the same name owner. How can a house loose all its friends list from a mantence of the billing??? I can see the master account loosing the names and perhaps the ability to relist but the house lost all frineds ....... and the login screen says i have the wrong password...... the account should be off not on... it was set to be turned back on in a week
     
  4. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    Very fightening stuff! Sorry babe.

    Best advice, it seams... FORCE customer service to give you an UO specialist. Every time I call, not that its very oftin, but they act like they have no clue what UO is. And dont let them go until they get it fixed.

    Best of luck!
     
  5. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    OK this takes the bloody cake!!

    Got a gm.................................... have in all my years in uo never had such a incounter!

    He simply couldnt help and told me to do what i cant do as the billing system is so fubared you cant get it to do squat..... I have had in the past an account that was hacked by an original owner back 10 years ago the GMs locked the account so it was not able ot be accessed till i got it straitened out. This one wouldnt even do that. How can you get help???? I am in fear now if they got into this avvount wht about all the rest i own??
     
  6. Mike of Ameraust

    Mike of Ameraust Journeyman
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    This sounds exactly the same as what happened to me once. I hate to tell you this but when i got access to my account, my castle had been stripped and sold, they didnt access the bank as they didnt want to get seen, they used my own char to make the sale.

    Good luck to you and i hope it turns out well.
     
  7. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Right now I am too scared to sleep!!

    Yes I know its pixels............. but its my pixels hehe

    Thank you I too hope all is ok a big snafu and it gets fixed in the morning ....

    I just hope its just a bug and all is fine..... then i will need a big bottle of valum for my nerves!!
     
  8. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Few more details here, if you can. Can you login to your accounts/characters in-game or are you locked out of game? If you can login to your character in-game, see if the account holding the castle can use a house placement tool. If you're in that timer that says you just transferred a house, then it sounds like someone hacked your account, created a character with the same name as yours, and traded the castle to that character.

    Based on what you said about the account page issues, I think this probably is an account server issue. Have you tried emailing Mesanna here about this?
     
  9. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    the old manage accounts system had where you put in your phone #. What they need to do is add this into the new account amanagement system. Where the CS can call that phone# to make sure they are the owner, and there should be a week delay of doing anything til a email is sent to the email linked to the account. something put in the email to where the owner is asked to call this number, because someone wants to unlink an account.

    I would change the email https://www.ea.com/profile/login
    and the PWs
    sorry this is happening to you
     
  10. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    The account in question I cant log in on. The message says i have the wrong password and when i take over the character from my main account who is co owned to it he is locked out and he is off the friends list. As I cant get in and the house sign is gold.

    The hosue is still owned by the same character i placed it with.

    Years ago if something like this happened you called a gm to lock the account till you got it back by id'ing yourself and straightened things out. The gm tonight said he was not able to do anyting to an account unrelated to mine..... We are at the mercy of this as we do not have any support in the billing or tech help of the game as SWOR does.

    I will have to wait till the billing office opens to get any kind of help and I will send Mesanna a pm if billing cant help me, or if things are messed up.

    I swear if a billing agent gave my account info to someone else there will be hell to pay.
     
  11. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    If you cant prove that the account is yours, of course that they cannot lock it. It makes sense, otherwise the griefing could be epic.

    Question about that account, did u created it? or you got it from someone else? (as a gift or paying for it). It you did not created the account or you did not used the -old- Account Access Transfer service then the accounts if not yours.

    Anyway, good luck!!
     
  12. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Lady Storm, can you log in to the game on the other two accounts that you said in your first post were also unlinked? Are you able to relink them, and in that process perhaps find out which e-mail address they may have been linked to instead of yours?

    Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen a post or two that hinted that people have managed to have UO accounts unlinked from their EA Account and transferred to someone else or assigned to a different EA Account.
     
  13. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Hi Tina, to answer your question.
    The other 2 accounts are off their link and when you atempt to relink, you get an error.
    I have been shifting the CC and date of billing on many so they are temparary off.
    I cant activate them as the link is needed to do so. But when I put the password in the account page I get the correct message that the paid time if over and to go to the proper billing to reactivate them. But on the 3rd account it tells me i have entered the wrong password. Clear indacation that something is amiss.

    Apetul that account did go through the trasnfer with my friends other account he gifted me both but we put them through the transfer. Although he bought this account way before we trasnfered it to me. I have owned this account for over 5 years. IF the CD owner has tried to claim my account he is in for a very big surprise. Just owning the cd is not proof the account is still yours. Many accounts were sold on e bay, or given away to friends. To guard against this being a big fight the Billing and Legal department go by the CC of record. As I have paid for the account and as of the last 5 years its been mine the creator has not too much of a leg to stand on. Legaly and I have one other trumph card... the paypal recipt for its purchase.

    To note though reciently I had to call billing and got a odd request from the CS... He asked for my password to my account I was calling about. This is a NO NO. NO CS should ever ask you for that. I worry that something not so kosher is up. Of course I reported this.

    Update: CS at Origin found the accounts but they are on another persons E mail and it seems they are in my accounts. CS is fixing this asap..... we hope. OK its official the 3 accounts were hacked but they cant find out from where but the only thing that linked them was the master email .......
     
  14. Sorry for your stress. Pixal or not its your time put in to create a place to get some R&R. I hope they catch the guy. I don't understand the complexities but I wish they would just give you an option that says any changes to my account needs to be done over the phone with a credit card verification.
     
  15. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I've seen this happen before and it is unfortunate but you will not get the account back.

    As far as they are concerned, the other person is the owner now.

    It sucks. EA should have an account transfer option that is free.
     
  16. Rupert Avery

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    Hey I hope it all works out for you... if it doesn't let me know if there anything i can do to help! :)
     
  17. You know I bet this has to do with reactiviting old accounts and the 2 week bonus thing.

    A player says let me try that old account... Hmmm. Let me call them and say I want to come back but I forget password.


    Pretty easily EA changes everything over.

    Just a guess.
     
  18. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah and now with the new account management system, instead of gaining access to only one account per email address now they have access to nine or more. Just plain brilliant.
     
  19. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    Even if the person that is now using the accounts knew the password, he couldnt be able to unlink the accounts for his own so that means he had help from the CS. You said you used the legal transfer from EA on those accounts? then the accounts are legally yours and you can claim them back.
    If no legal transfer option was used, maybe you will get the account back for a period of time but the original owner will be able to get it back again.
     
  20. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Lady Storm, so sorry this is happening to you. I hope you get it all worked out and it just turns out to be a simple mix-up.

    I was hacked several years ago and I know how scary it is. However, my sister was able to get in and page a GM, explain what was happening and the GM locked the accounts until I got it straightened out. Not sure why they won't do that for you now?????

    Good luck and please let us know what's going on.
     
  21. hey storm if you havent already go in and change ur e mail password. and get ea on the phone and tell them that your account is hacked. if you can provide the email and the credit card used they should be able to reset the password to that account and send it to your email.....and dont let them brush you off till they do it, if one guy cant tell him to get his manager on he phone.
     
  22. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    You all are so nice and I apreciate this support. I am so nervous and jumpie... not good on my nerves! Rupert your a sweety, and thank you for the offer.

    As many in th estratics rares comunity know I am not a poor child and will bounce back if all is lost house wise... it was only a castle. Its my babys - my characters I worry about. Each character we have has that spark of personality we give them... Its like having one of my kids kidnaped! only its 6 kids at once. I had made this house a true home for my leasure, a rooftop vinyard, a garden of corn and mellons with my kittys ruling the roost. This was one of my private places to go to work on my libary or dabble with my miner.

    I honestly feel violated.

    The CS said the account was hacked first then the others were taken... now the funny part that dont make sense.
    The three are in no way related.
    No common creator. The only true link is the new billing program.....

    One was created by my friend Ty she is in detroit and wouldnt touch uo if hades himself tortured her to.
    The 2nd was a gift back almost 10 years and its creator would never do this, he lives in paris and his wife would kill him if he got back into uo.
    We french ladys are a bossy lot! hehe
    The Account that was hacked came from a friend who has at last I was told passed away not long after he and I traded the accounts legaly.

    CS said i will get them back in 24 to 72 hours and will be contacted.... I want my pixels back in one piece... all 6 of them attatudes and all. Gold Forge has the midas touch in mining.. I swear that boy can smell valorite ore... Johnny my tamer and his pack of my babys. Santas Evil Elf she is a great fencer and my main bone collector... ok I i best stop ... i am getting uptight...

    Thank you Tiggertessa, I did all you suguested at 5 am when the phone center came on line... the very helpfull lady had to dig up where they were hidden and the funny thing was she had to litterly go backwards to find them all. I wish we didnt have this new billing .... I saw this comming from a mile away the first day I saw the way they linked all accounts!
     
  23. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    To avoid losing more than one of my accounts via some hack or other, I created new E-mail accounts with my provider so that when the account migration was taking place, I could use the new e-mail address to separately link my UO accounts to Mythic EA. Now each of my UO accounts are linked to a different E-mail address in EA's account system.

    I do wish they would not have UO accounts linked as they have done.
    It invites too much trouble.
     
  24. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    I wish I would have thought to do this. I hate that they are all linked.
     
  25. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Jade is spot on. Do NOT have all your accounts linked to 1 email address. If someone gets in, you loose everything.
     
  26. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Hearing this sort of thing just sickens me. The thought of someone hacking into someone elses accounts and taking them... As if we aren't losing enough folk we have people who do this sort of thing driving away more and more of the decent players leaving us with more and more hackers and scammers and cheats...

    I certainly hope someone at EA/UO takes note and puts a stop to this! This is at least the 4th person to have had this happen since the new account crap started. When does it end?

    When will those responsible for doing this to other players be punished? What is it going to take?

    I bet if someone hacked one of the DEV's accounts something would get done.

    Just saying.

    Storm if there is anything I could do to help I would...
     
  27. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Storm, can you keep us apprised of what's going on with all this? I really hope you're able to recover everything intact. Now I know you can change the email address associated with your account. I was able to recover some lost accounts by logging in with my old hacked email address and changing it to one of my active addresses. The question is, can you change the email address associated with individual UO accounts or does it change the address of your master EA account?
     
  28. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
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    I think you are asking the same question I have:

    Can you MOVE your UO Account to another EA ACCOUNT created with a new E-Mail address?

    example:

    UO Accounts NO. 1 & No. 2
    are linked to EA's E-mail Account No. 1.

    You want to move UO Account No.2
    - out of EA Account No.1
    - then link UO Account No.2
    to a new E-mail-addressed-EA-Account No.2

    This way you would have two UO-accounts registered and linked to EA but on seperate E-mails thus two seperate accounts with EA.
     
  29. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Nice to see everything seems to be going well...

    This is just another reason for EA/Mythic to release an Account Authenticator.
     
  30. your most welcome darlin, i hope that info helped ya out. i had my acct hacked once and lost everything =( *was when i decided to keep something long enough to sell it*
     
  31. Haddy G

    Haddy G Journeyman
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    I think the real question is was the account really hacked? Hacking would imply that either they broke into your computer or they broke into EA computers. Since it was only three of your accounts, I think the person who took your accounts used social engineering on EA customer service.

    I know for a fact you can get access to an account with only the original account cd key. That is how I got my account back. I had quit and was gone for over 3 years; needless to say I could not remember my password, old email address, or the old credit card number. I gave them the cd key; had them change the email address; password, and then had complete access.

    I'm really curious if the old account transfer system database even exists anymore. How does EA track it when we're now on a new account management system?

    My advice is when you get your account back transfer the castle to a brand new account and link it to a new master account. I wish they would create a option of linking accounts to your computer, Steam does and it works well.
     
  32. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    This is what I don't like not being able to unlink my own accounts.
    Having to make a phone call to have someone that I don't even know unlink an account to link the account to someone elses email.
    Now this person as my email and knows all my accounts on that email.
    This person doesn't need my passwords, but can reset the password, or unlink my accounts place them on another email. At the end of this month I have to unlink my friends account that I have had on my cc from day one once the billing is up he finally got his own cc. after hearing these horror stories Im scared to call and have it done
     
  33. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Hello JAde ... to answer both of your questions Yes I tried a new E mail addy to link them and no the message is they do not exsist.... I tried every consieveable way to get in or locate them and worse off the lady CS too had a hadies of a time trying to find them in the first place. They didnt show up as accounts till she tried a backdoor and only then did they pop up and on a different e mail addy...... not mine btw...

    Now this is only conjecture mind you and I of all people hate to prejudge with out all the facts but after 7 hours tracing account info and looking over so many e mails the 46 are on and changing all passwords and making sure all are on and in my name... Im tired!!

    I want to take the culprit out and make him pay ...... (sorry I am a lady but I am also a very peeved woman who is a the end of her rope)

    My son and I looked at all angles the secondery 2 accounts taken have not been activaed as of yet.. the hacker(I use this term loosely) Has yet to get done with my castle. I dont care about the castle as much as i do my characters. Who knows what kind of charlatain has them.

    I fear to say this but after looking at all the evidence on my end of this caper... (gulps) It looks like an inside job. When you change an e mail they send you a message to confirm you did indeed change it .... none was sent. When you change a password again you get a e mail of it ... i got none here ether. To take only 3 accounts that are not linked anyother way but by my master e mail they reside on I can not come to any other conclusion. A CS wouldnt give 3 accounts for just one CD key ... you would only get the one. No this smells of a rat, and unfortunately society and UO is not imune to them.

    I have not recieved any e mail from the Mythic heads on this yet....

    MalagAster hugs hun thank you for your care dear one.... Thank you Tiggertessa I dare say my password is so elaborate and all accounts have been changed to it. ALL are presently on and accounted for Except the 3 stolen accounts. My fear is they were close to the 90 day on turn on. ( i am not sure of the last date on, as the new system never puts the account name on the notices!) I had been changing credit cards on them and dates for billing they slipped my mind last month to turn some of them back on... darn stroke has me dithered at times..

    What is truly frightning is the old system for billing had safty nets built in that this billing cant or dont have. This one if you turn of your accounts and forget what date ... no history is there to fall back on... if your master is compromised... all your accounts are. We dont have GM's who really serve us... the one I called couldnt even lock up the offending account like in the old days... no phone support past 9pm central so even that is gone too if you find your hacked.

    We my friends are very vunerable...
     
  34. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    have you checked to see if any of the characters from that account have been logged on?

    im assuming like most of us you have all your toons in your own house guild?

    thats the first thing id do, log in on a atl and check to see when the last time they where online.
     
  35. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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    Customer Service from EA has been known to be pretty weak at securing account information....

    Pretty easy to trick them into giving information sometimes if you have even just a couple pieces of the puzzle. They do not seem to have any standard operating procedure for caller verification (If they do, Their CS people definitely are not following them)

    They have done the following major F&^K ups in the past:

    • Freely gave account information to caller and asked them "Is this the correct information?" I mean vital account information!!!
    • Skip validation process and allow people to access to account

    Customer Service are suppose to be trained against social engineering (people calling and try to fish CS for account information) but apparently EA CS get a big fat F for F&^King up all the time.
     
  36. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Good idea about checking when chars logged in Poo, that's certainly worth checking if you can manage it.

    To be safe in the meantime, it's worth running virus scans, malware scans etc on the pc and any others you've used to access your email accounts and account management info. If you might have accessed that email account or gone into account management there, scan that too. Then when you're sure your systems are clean, change passwords and set up a new email account for your accounts, ideally one for each. Use it for nothing else but the management of your account and give it the most secure gobbledegook password you can.

    A lot of web email providers will let you forward mail from webmail accounts to one you use more often. So you can set that up and have it route emails to your main account. That avoids you having to login to it directly to watch over accounts. It also saves you logging into the email account itself. Why is that good? Well, a key logger can't log keys if you're not hitting them ;) Also, it saves you having to either write down a complicated password or save the login on your browser, or even have that site in your browser history. I think that makes it a wee bit more secure. And if anyone hacks the new email addy in future, they could delete telltale emails from EA (which may have happened this time), but forwarding happens so quick that I doubt they'd manage to nuke the email before you got a copy.

    And without trying to sound paranoid here.. don't let anyone even family know any of your passwords while you're sorting the accounts out again. That includes email accounts. Family and SO's can and do sometimes mess about with shared accounts. Been there, learned the lesson ;)

    Fingers crossed you get your account back and CS actually lock things down. But try what Poo suggested and that might give you some peace of mind if characters haven't been logged in.

    Wenchy
     
  37. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i hate to say it but this new billing system they have its very easy to hack someones account..

    they really really need to do some kind of security other then 1 master email. id go as far to suggest a phone text code, like banks to do when you try to pay bills online.
     
  38. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    This new system scares me. So many good people are having more and more problems...

    Secure Email is something important and this I stress quite a bit. Often folk are getting hacked through their emails. Not through EA.

    If you have an Email for your accounts make sure it's a secure EMail.... make sure you use is ONLY for your accounts NEVER EVER use it as somewhere to sign up on a website like this one! Never post that EMail Anywhere! Keep it and reserve it only for your accounts.

    If you need an email for websites and things make another.
     
  39. I dont know where you play. I am only on Atlantic. If you need help rebuilding, I'd be glad to donate. My hope is your characters are intact.

    EA has a responsibility and I do have 3 accounts. I used to have 7 or 8. Each time they screw up, I reduce my accounts. If they can't help you, I hope you do reduce some of what you give them monthly but keep enough open to enjoy the people and game.
     
  40. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    Hi all, for those of you who dont know me, im lady storms son.

    we found out what the issue was.it seems someone was able to get our account information and somehow have ea remove those 3 accounts from our linked email address. we encountered the new "owner" of the account to find out it was some person who purchased the account from someone who was spamming there icq about selling the account. when she bought it it seems the other 2 accounts that were missing were also added to her billing information without her asking.she didnt even know why they were there, we had a very lengthly discussion about this with her and she was totaly freaked when she learned the account was stolen. she did confirm the email the 3 accounts were now linked to was hers and it didnt seem like she was lying about it. now shes supposed to call ea this morning to try and get the accounts unlinked so we can get them back.. now if that happens i dont know. i just think that someone who works for EA must be respooncible for this. when the girl bought it she said it was inactive but the guy was able to give her a full description of the charicters and house that was on the account, that coupled with the fact it was removed from our master account when weve tried a half dozen times just to get a account unlinked is amazing in itself.and not only was the 3 accounts unlinked but we didnt even recieve emails stating they unlinked them or anything. also mom mentioned once a few weeks back that the guy that was helping her get a account linked that we were having difficulty with about 3 weeks ago was asking her for her password.so i feel something is rotten in denmark if you get my drift.

    so from the bottom of my heart i thank all of you for your support that you have shown over this and hopefully the person that has the accounts right now is as honest as we believe she might be, this might get resolved.. that is is ea can get its head out of its butt and does the right thing...something these days is getting harder and harder to do.
     
  41. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    That is good to hear that you have figured out what the problem is and i wish you luck getting everything back!

    Word of warning here NEVER EVER give any passwords to anyone for any reason ever!
     
  42. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Thank you for updating us, please continue to do so.

    Like others here I do not know which shard your mother plays on but if she needs any help that I can give, I am most willing to do so.

    Good luck! Looking forward to hearing good news from you (or your mother) very soon!
     
  43. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    new update

    we were able to relink the 3 accounts back to our master account. so there now safe, ransacked but safe now.

    my mom is currently on the phone with ea and we found out that most likely the one who had the account was the hacker, because he told us he came back after 5 years and only had 1 account, come to find out from the rep from ea, this guy has like 15 other accounts. so hes going to escalate this to see if these accounts were stolen as well.

    now all of our passwords and everything have been changed, ect...so guys those of you with multiple accounts take some time out of your day, check to make sure all of your accounts are still on your master accounts and if theres a missing one, give ea some hell!
     
  44. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    That is great news !! congrats on getting your accounts back!
     
  45. Podolak

    Podolak Crazed Zealot
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    Thank you very much for the update you two. I am glad you got your accounts and more importantly "children" back. I am sure you feel violated but hopefully things get better from here.

    I have been following this thread closely because of how uncomfortable situations like this make us all feel. Thanks for sharing the steps of your unfortunate journey.
     
  46. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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    Glad to see that owner got accounts back but it is still a huge issue that someone can get Customer Service to Unlink accounts and relink them to another master account@!!

    Am I the only one that see the huge F up again? or are we going to let this pass again with regard to how EA CS does things.

    I was under the impression that once you link an account, comes hell or high water they should not unlink it unless its the same person requesting it. In this situation it is obvious that the owner of the new master account is NOT the same owner of the old master account just based on billing information!!!!!!!

    I would like to see someone's ass fired at least for this BS. This is not acceptable level of service at all.
     
  47. I have three account. I never changed or linked anything cause I am lazy and figured Id wait.

    I dont even understand what happened to the OP but someone got royally screwed very easily.

    That makes me angry. I suppose I just hope for the best for the OP, hope no one else has an account someone else once owned, and hope I dont have to link my accounts.

    This is absolutely ridiculous. :twak:
     
  48. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Hello all here is the most recient update:

    Accounts have been returned and are now safe behind new passwords and e mails.

    But we have a big problem... Seems this guy got my accounts by fishing CS. He somehow found the account names.. still not sure if it is a inside job but i will not point fingers YET..

    He called and gave lines of bull#$%#$ to get info calling multi times to get different CS people and fished each for info to obtain the changes. He not only got in the account but like all of us multi account holders we cross co own/ and friend our other accounts to our homes and castles in this case... this thief got into the characters house book and tried all my houses and stole bags full of items, ethys, transfers , over 8 to10 full soulstone tokens from mondain and the bag he took was so full of my tokens from soup to nuts UO ever has sold or given us.

    I feel releaved i got my babys back, but as an angry mother I want to hang him by his toes over a slow roasting pit..... for what he has done to them! he erased skills and stones others and god only know where all my stuff is or what else he has taken from my homes...

    CS found he has other accoutns that might not be his I IMPLORE all of you to go check your accounts the on as well as your off ones. This nut has been busy!
     
  49. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    What a bunch a BS. They need to pull these CS people out and fire them all.
     
  50. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Lady Storm Sorry this happened to you. UO should let you into all of this persons accounts, pick what you want, then wipe them all and BAN THEIR A$$