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Here is the difference between PvP, and PvPMonster

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hail: I started a new thread as not to highjack the other one.
    You are walking across a bridge. A Troll comes out and attacks you. You go back n forth, you are low on life, but the Troll is almost dead. Another Troll spawns, walks up behind you, and bashes your head with his club. O000ooOOoo00.

    "Dang, it, drats, i should have hid, or healed my self, or ran away, darn darn darn, " and off you go to get ressed.

    You are walking across a bridge. A troll come out and attacks you. You go back n forth, You are low on life, but the Troll is almost dead. ANOTHER PLAYER SHOWS UP, AND STICKS HIS SWORD IN YOUR BACK. OO000OO00oo

    " You friggin Jerk ass, @#*&#@!, mo fo, $3@&*!, and your momma is a @%^&#*%" . After slamming your mouse down, and kicking your PC, you power back up, log in, and off to get rezed.

    OK Boys & Girles, what just happened? Well, exactly the same thing happened. Everything was the same. The only difference was that instead of a PC Troll Spawning and killing you, a Real player showed up and did it.

    So, Why is the second example so much worse than the first? There are 3 main reasons.

    1. CHOICE: When the second Troll spawned, you knew it was going to help the other one kill you. That's what evil NPC/Creatures do. You expect, and accept it, because the NPC has no choice.

    When the Other player showed up, You had very little or no idea what he would do. He Chose to kill you, and you did not like that choice. He could have healed you. He could have healed the Troll. He could have done nothing, and just kept going.

    2. KNOW THEY EMEMY: The reason you let yourself get low on life was because you fought Trolls before. They will hit for 3-5 hp of damage, and you will hit them for 16-20 pts of damage.

    When the other Player showed up, YOU HAD NO IDEA OF HIS STRENTH. He could be the greatest PK in the game, and you were dead no matter what. He could have been created 10 minutes ago, and only caused 11 hp of damage, but you only had 9hp left, and under any other circumstances you would have 1 hit killed him.

    3. AFTER DEATH EXPIERIENCE: When a NPC kills you, you is mostly over. Depending on the creature, and the rules, it might take something off you body. It then leaves, and you go Rez. It is Over

    When a real player Kills you, he will at least try to take all he can off your body. He can sling insults at you, follow you and after you rez, kill you aagin. It may be far from over.
    ___________________________________________________________

    All 3 of these could have been fixed, or addressed in the game. Allowing a player to play as a monster is one way to fix it. There are NO limits as to what it could do. When that Skeleton is attacking you, and you walk into a guard zone, and a guard see's it, it kills it for you. Same thing is that Skeleton was bob.

    The point of Player monsters is this. It makes the game better, in that the Creatures are better. The point of having a slot as a Monster slot, is that you can play the bad guy, in a setting that it is now accepted. There are no Shard restrictions. That Troll does not care if you are in Tram, or Ilish, or where you are at.

    If the monster slot was a progressive one, where you gain pts, and transform into a better monster, "Snake-Serpent snake-sea serpent-leviathon, as example, then there is a goal for the monster player, and a goal for the Normal player, as, maybe killing them reverts them back 1 level, or something like that.

    With your monster slot, you keep all the stuff just like you do now. As a Lich, you kill a mummy, and you get all the same things off the corps that you would if you cad killed the Mummy with your Normal Player. You just can't equip, or use anything that a normal Lich in the game couldnt use.

    Lets face it. When they have the Special Shard up at Halloween, and such, and going thru a moongate turns you into a random monster, and we all go around attacking each other,....THAT SERVER IS FULL, AND SOMETIMES OVER FULL. I have seen the message, "try to log in later, as player limit is full". or some such message.

    Oh, and on trying to play as a Creature, Now? This was tried years ao on Catskills. A guild became Orcs. They created new charaters with Orc name, bald, clubs, and so on. Everyone just called them another form of PKer, and not Role Playing. With out the restrictions, there is nothing to stop me, from getting the crap beat out of me by YOU, and saying, "Screw this", and whipping out by Halbred of player Vanquishing, and summoning an EV and summoning my Dragon onto your Ass. " Yea, that's right, i am a super Orc". hehe

    UO will never do this, it is to late. However, imhop, if a another new game did it, and had player housing, and blocked all unwanted 3rd party programes/scripts, THEY WIN.
     
  2. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

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    I've read the post, and I have to say, I agree. The end results are the same, but how the player got there makes all the difference...imo.
     
  3. <blockquote><hr>

    Hail: I started a new thread as not to highjack the other one.
    You are walking across a bridge. A Troll comes out and attacks you. You go back n forth, you are low on life, but the Troll is almost dead. Another Troll spawns, walks up behind you, and bashes your head with his club. O000ooOOoo00.

    "Dang, it, drats, i should have hid, or healed my self, or ran away, darn darn darn, " and off you go to get ressed.

    You are walking across a bridge. A troll come out and attacks you. You go back n forth, You are low on life, but the Troll is almost dead. ANOTHER PLAYER SHOWS UP, AND STICKS HIS SWORD IN YOUR BACK. OO000OO00oo

    " You friggin Jerk ass, @#*&amp;#@!, mo fo, $3@&amp;*!, and your momma is a @%^&amp;#*%" . After slamming your mouse down, and kicking your PC, you power back up, log in, and off to get rezed.

    OK Boys &amp; Girles, what just happened? Well, exactly the same thing happened. Everything was the same. The only difference was that instead of a PC Troll Spawning and killing you, a Real player showed up and did it.

    So, Why is the second example so much worse than the first? There are 3 main reasons.

    1. CHOICE: When the second Troll spawned, you knew it was going to help the other one kill you. That's what evil NPC/Creatures do. You expect, and accept it, because the NPC has no choice.

    When the Other player showed up, You had very little or no idea what he would do. He Chose to kill you, and you did not like that choice. He could have healed you. He could have healed the Troll. He could have done nothing, and just kept going.

    [/ QUOTE ]I always assume someone is a pk. anyone who does otherwise is just silly.
    <blockquote><hr>


    2. KNOW THEY EMEMY: The reason you let yourself get low on life was because you fought Trolls before. They will hit for 3-5 hp of damage, and you will hit them for 16-20 pts of damage.

    When the other Player showed up, YOU HAD NO IDEA OF HIS STRENTH. He could be the greatest PK in the game, and you were dead no matter what. He could have been created 10 minutes ago, and only caused 11 hp of damage, but you only had 9hp left, and under any other circumstances you would have 1 hit killed him.

    [/ QUOTE ] or you could be smart and assume it is a strong pk...
    <blockquote><hr>


    3. AFTER DEATH EXPIERIENCE: When a NPC kills you, you is mostly over. Depending on the creature, and the rules, it might take something off you body. It then leaves, and you go Rez. It is Over

    [/ QUOTE ] uhh, no. A player could wander over and loot you.
    <blockquote><hr>


    When a real player Kills you, he will at least try to take all he can off your body. He can sling insults at you, follow you and after you rez, kill you aagin. It may be far from over.

    [/ QUOTE ]just like when a troll kills you...
    <blockquote><hr>


    ___________________________________________________________

    All 3 of these could have been fixed, or addressed in the game. Allowing a player to play as a monster is one way to fix it. There are NO limits as to what it could do. When that Skeleton is attacking you, and you walk into a guard zone, and a guard see's it, it kills it for you. Same thing is that Skeleton was bob.

    The point of Player monsters is this. It makes the game better, in that the Creatures are better. The point of having a slot as a Monster slot, is that you can play the bad guy, in a setting that it is now accepted. There are no Shard restrictions. That Troll does not care if you are in Tram, or Ilish, or where you are at.

    [/ QUOTE ] so you are suggesting that if i play as a monster i can kill people in Trammel? So what happens if me and ten buddies are monsters, can we all gank someone in trammel? i like this...
    <blockquote><hr>


    If the monster slot was a progressive one, where you gain pts, and transform into a better monster, "Snake-Serpent snake-sea serpent-leviathon, as example, then there is a goal for the monster player, and a goal for the Normal player, as, maybe killing them reverts them back 1 level, or something like that.

    With your monster slot, you keep all the stuff just like you do now. As a Lich, you kill a mummy, and you get all the same things off the corps that you would if you cad killed the Mummy with your Normal Player. You just can't equip, or use anything that a normal Lich in the game couldnt use.

    Lets face it. When they have the Special Shard up at Halloween, and such, and going thru a moongate turns you into a random monster, and we all go around attacking each other,....THAT SERVER IS FULL, AND SOMETIMES OVER FULL. I have seen the message, "try to log in later, as player limit is full". or some such message.

    [/ QUOTE ]thats because it is a novel idea to have some fun with for a short period... Remember when the legacy dungeons started spawning arties? they were full 24/7... no anymore, people got bored. just like they would with a halloween shard if it staye dup.
    <blockquote><hr>


    Oh, and on trying to play as a Creature, Now? This was tried years ao on Catskills. A guild became Orcs. They created new charaters with Orc name, bald, clubs, and so on. Everyone just called them another form of PKer, and not Role Playing. With out the restrictions, there is nothing to stop me, from getting the crap beat out of me by YOU, and saying, "Screw this", and whipping out by Halbred of player Vanquishing, and summoning an EV and summoning my Dragon onto your Ass. " Yea, that's right, i am a super Orc". hehe

    [/ QUOTE ]lol, so when a player dresses like an orc, acts like and orc, and talks like an orc, how is it different than a player actually being an orc? its not.
    <blockquote><hr>


    UO will never do this, it is to late. However, imhop, if a another new game did it, and had player housing, and blocked all unwanted 3rd party programes/scripts, THEY WIN.

    [/ QUOTE ]UO will never do this because it is a silly idea. what would i gain out of playing as a monster? And it is totally abusable. Me and ten buddies could all play as ettins, pretend to be ettins, wait for some poor sod to get near us, all jump him at one time (since we can wander to him isntead of waiting for him to get on screen), then have a player loot his body dry. Lame.
    You need to consider the mechanics of what you suggest before thinking its a good idea. As you suggest it now it is completely exploitable.

    what is to stop me from playing as a super creature, then letting my buddy kill me really easily for my loot? I could just keep letting him drop me faster than he could a normal creautre.

    And do you seriously think people are going to wait in the bottom of shame for hours on end for someone to show up?
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Lol. Back before Tram, when we had Monsters spawn in Brit every now and then (Ratmen, Lizmen, a Gazer), some PK Mages would Polymorph into a Ratman or Lizmen, and walk into town. As soon as someone attacked them thinking they were a normal Lizman/Ratman, they would kill the blue. Was pretty funny.
     
  5. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    <blockquote><hr>

    All 3 of these could have been fixed, or addressed in the game. Allowing a player to play as a monster is one way to fix it.

    [/ QUOTE ]Not true.
    1. A player-controlled monster still has the choice of killing you or not killing you.
    2. While you will know the stat range and capabilities of the player-controlled monster, you won't know their combat capabilities. Game stats &amp; skills are only one part of the equation - strategy is the other.
    3. A player-controlled monster can still res-kill you and do things that are clearly insulting, if not insult you directly.


    <blockquote><hr>

    Oh, and on trying to play as a Creature, Now? This was tried years ao on Catskills. A guild became Orcs. They created new charaters with Orc name, bald, clubs, and so on. Everyone just called them another form of PKer, and not Role Playing.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    The Shadowclan Orcs were one of the most respected roleplaying groups on Catskills. Likewise, there were the Undead, the Ratmen, and some other monster-type roleplaying guilds that were highly respected on Catskills.
    Not all of those who played as monster types (or even human types that were capable of fighting) were respected, but nothing about putting stat/skill/communication restrictions on players who opt to play as monsters forces somebody to play that monster respectably... it just limits their options on how they can be a jerk.
     
  6. Sakkarah

    Sakkarah UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    The idea of player monsters isn't new. I personally think it has a lot of potential and could be really cool. But while the idea posted by the OP opens the door to a number of exploits, I dont think it should just be shot down. There are ways to implent something like this in a more controlled environment.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hail: I was not not going into complete detail, and all the limits and such that would need to be in place. It was just a general idea that fighting a monster, "of any type" is better if the AI was replaced by a real player.

    I mean, how lame is it when evil npc mages run up to you, and Wrestle until they are almost dead, and then start using magic spells?

    If you can't make the AI better, then replace it.