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here's a thought (about the new UBER dragons)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Poo, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    im kinda unsure as to why the new uber dragons didnt get a bump up the old scale on how hard they are to tame.

    but here is a thought.
    why not have the new uber dragons.... well make them uber hard to tame.

    there, ive said it.
    and ill say something that is gonna make all the twink tamers roll over and sit up....

    make the new dragons the same as bushido is for lesser hyrus.... that is make it so you need REAL skill to even own one.

    and make it HIGH.
    like 115.

    then you will see a DRASTIC reduction in how many of these UBER dragons are out there.
    heck, make their min taming requirment like 115 and you will see that only a few of the uber good tamers will have these uber dragons.

    and really.
    when your making a monster like this tamable, it should be only for the higher skill tamers.
    not the twinks.

    same as they did for bushy.
    go natural, or go home.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    make the new dragons the same as bushido is for lesser hyrus.... that is make it so you need REAL skill to even own one.

    and make it HIGH.
    like 115.

    [/ QUOTE ]I have a better idea. Make them completely untamable. Dragons of ancient lore were massive beasts that were more intelligent than any mere mortal. Why should we be able to tame such a beast? From what I have seen in TC and with other players posting pics of these overpowered(for a tamable) dragons,500-600 int isn't unreasonable. This means the typical super dragon is at least 3x "smarter" than most characters.

    Lets put this in perspective shall we? Tamer tries to tame super dragon should equal to trying to play Michael Jordan in a game of one-on-one,either way you are gonna get ate up. [​IMG]
     
  3. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

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    Without Embracing Honor I couldn`t even tame one by myself. To make them hard to tame they just need to remove the Embracing Honor effecting the new dragons.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You know darn well it's just fine by me, Brother Poo.

    And it would certainly put them exclusively in the hands of those who devote x-number of skill points to tame/lore and/or vet depending on how the limits are set.

    I just doubt the notion is going to go down well with those who rely heavily on +skill items.

    Another problem I see is Siege Perilous related in that it only takes 175 skill points (100 hide/75 stealth) on Siege to never fail stealth - Since there is no passive reveal on stealth there, the stealth/tamers being complained about really aren't going to be hurt too much by the change.

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Go on! Click my eggs!
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm in too... real skill of 115 would have tamers training again bigtime hehe.

    *eyes her own baby tamers*

    Including mine lol.

    Wenchy
     
  6. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    Once again, the term "twinks" is bandied-about, but only in relation to Tamers.

    I may be wrong, but I believe that the only aspects of UO which relies on REAL skill is the Tactics requirement for special moves and Hiryu/Bushido; every other skill in the game allows buffing by items.


    I'd have no problem with insisting that tamers have real skill to control the new dragons, as long as every other combat attribute is based on real skill. This would mean:
    No more Shadowdancers
    No more Hunters Headdress
    No more bracers &amp; book to cast vamp form
    No more wearing a +Chiv ring to cast holy light
    etc, etc, etc


    The discussion as to whether skill-buffing items should exist can go on forever, and should be a separate debate, but please don't keep targetting tamers for real-or-nothing when every other class is allowed to use buffs.


    Most of the nerf-the-dragon posts have referred to Stealth / Ninjas / petballs.

    Why nerf the "twink" tamer, when changes like:

    Visible words and animation when using a petball.
    Delay between using a petball and an aggressive command.
    Timer between petball uses.
    Non-insurable petballs.
    Ninja forms take a control slot.

    would fix most of the PvP pet problems without subjecting a class of character to restrictions which don't apply to other classes?
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    then you will see a DRASTIC reduction in how many of these UBER dragons are out there.
    heck, make their min taming requirment like 115 and you will see that only a few of the uber good tamers will have these uber dragons.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have no problem with that if 120 PSs will be handed out like gingerbread men. I don't PvP and I'm not 'Uber' rich. So obviously I'm not going to be for this idea. I'm neither a twink nor a hard core player.

    If the issue is Tamers in PvP, then limit the dragons damage output in PvP, based on the tamers real skills, kind of like Tactics would.

    I've also heard people complaining about 170(or so) skill point stealthers... Last time I checked 170 skill point trackers/detecters could essentially nullify the stealthing problem, if played correctly. It seems everyone(that has complained about stealthers) has made the conscious choice to not defend against stealthers, thus they should have no reason to complain…
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    make it so you need REAL skill to even own one.

    and make it HIGH.
    like 115.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /signed
     
  9. The knights that say Ni !

    Ni Ni Ni Ni !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I like the refreshing comments on thinking out of the box and using templates to fight against templates. The game already exist skills to counter stealth ninja tamers :

    * Disclaimer : This post is not meant for the gallant Seige community who we all know are the most uber veteran players on a SPECIAL hard shard *

    If all the whiners just spend more of their energy learning how to fight against unusual template builds instead of running and crying to Mummy Jeremy... anyway, here's some free tips :

    (1) Tracking
    (2) Detect
    (3) Peacemake
    (4) Discord
    (5) Parry
    (6) Bushido - Evasion

    Not to mention 'Paralyse' Special Melee Moves as well as 'Paralyse' Mage Spell against a pet.

    Explosion Pot | Earthquake | Meteror | Chain Lightning | Confrag Pot | Revenent | Lethal Poison | Strangle | Bleed | Poison Strike all can reveal a hider.

    A stealther will get revealed very very easily when someone steps onto him so most PvPers will run haphazardly around a area to reveal ninja instant hiders.

    There is also a Greater Confusion Potion to use as Area Peace for anyone.

    Talisman of Ward Removal can knock a ninja wolf back to human.

    * ibtw : In Before the Whines
    All these tactics work very well. Before the kiddie whiners start the carebear , trammie dun know PvP excuses ... try them out. If you are slow and can't learn, come to Baja and I will personally introduce you to our better PvPers that can cope. There's no shortage of good PvP Tamers on Baja, there are so many that our PvPers are very good at nullifying them.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Why not make it harder?

    I never really got why time isnt on the side of the tamer.

    The uber drags should be really hard to get. Really hard.

    They should require max skill to tame and manage.

    Now reward the TAMER. A tamer that actually tames and fights with it. Spends time with it. That means actually walking around with it. Not just recalling and fighting. Loves it. Teaches it. Bonds with it. Will better be able to control it. Eventually, it will take LESS SLOTS. The bond and training, over time, would be a reward to the tamer.

    Id add in death. Death weakens the bond.

    Now, if the drag is tame and all that and transfered. Well no more low slot dragon. It has to come from the original master.

    Make the game more dynamic. UO has so much.

    Its time to shine and ignor the whine. Make changes that are great for the game.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I'd have no problem with insisting that tamers have real skill to control the new dragons, as long as every other combat attribute is based on real skill. This would mean:
    No more Shadowdancers
    No more Hunters Headdress
    No more bracers &amp; book to cast vamp form
    No more wearing a +Chiv ring to cast holy light
    etc, etc, etc


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Would gladly say goodbye to every skill + item in UO [​IMG]

    There are plenty of skills you can't + with items though, I just wish taming had always been on there. Not one of EA's best decisions.

    Wenchy
     
  12. AdamD

    AdamD Guest

    Perhaps the taming requirement should also include a minimum intelligence value to, heh
    Like 100? or higher to tame the tough dragons
     
  13. Samaira

    Samaira Lore Master
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    I understand the desire to make this wonderful new pet have a high requirement. I agree, in fact. It should have a higher minimum taming requirement than the legacy dragons, for sure. No brainer.

    However, I seem to remember reading that shortly after the introduction of powerscrolls, the devs assured the playerbase that no action, spell or tameable would ever require skills over GM. They've already gone back on this with Cu's and Fire Steeds, and I seem to remember reading more than one disgruntled post by tamers about this fact.

    Every time I see a request for something "special" for 120 tamers, I cringe... but this idea makes me more than a little mad. For a few moments, put your apparent superiority complexes aside and have a little thought for those of us that play under conditions like mine.

    98% of the time, I play a tamer. A "true" tamer - I have taming, lore and vet as high as I can (all over GM, base), while still being able to defend myself without my pets. I love the taming profession, and aim to eventually take the taming skill itself to Legendary, though there is no room on my template to follow suit with lore and vet.

    My char's template looks like this:
    Taming 105.1 (+15 brace for active taming)
    Lore 110
    Vet 110
    Magery 100 (+15 Tome for reliable spellcasting)
    Med 100 (have had this lower, but as it is I fail more often than I'd like at medding)
    Hiding 100
    Stealth 80 (+20 Shadows)

    It has taken me close to two years to get to 105 base taming on this, my primary char. Granted, I know it can be done much, much faster than this, but when I started playing I was an Honours student writing my research paper, and since then I have shifted countries, gotten married and started my own business while also working 2-3 nights a week at a part time job. And regardless - even if I had the time to work from 105 to 120 over the next few weeks, I couldn't... my account is only 24 months.

    At the moment, my GGS is approximately once every 48 hours. Even if I had the skill points available, it would still take me almost a year to gain the 10pts in taming to get my char to the level more than one person in this thread has suggested.

    That's three years. I'm all for putting in the hard yards and not getting things handed to me on a silver platter, but Christ people, three years?

    The "reward" for 120 is added control, a higher success rate, a fancy title and a nice big stroke to your e-peen. Make the required taming for the super dragons GM, no higher. The "boy's club" of Legendary tamers really does sicken me sometimes. Just because you've done it umpteen times doesn't mean everyone who loves the profession has the ability to make a Legendary tamer at the drop of a hat.

    And to anyone who tells me I should set one of my other skills to down and just suck it up and work taming, I refer you to my comment above. Introduce a mage spell that requires 115 magery, a crossbow that can only be used with 115 archery, or a dungeon that only Legendary players can enter, and maybe then I won't complain about a 115 requirement for taming. But you won't be able to hear yourselves think on these boards for the screaming.

    /rant.

    *edit* Just realised I should point something out - I replied to your post, Fluffi, because I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said, and I was going to comment on your arguments, but I believe you say all that is necessary as far as skill + items and PvP are concerned. [​IMG]
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    make the new dragons the same as bushido is for lesser hyrus.... that is make it so you need REAL skill to even own one.

    and make it HIGH.
    like 115.

    [/ QUOTE ]I have a better idea. Make them completely untamable. Dragons of ancient lore were massive beasts that were more intelligent than any mere mortal. Why should we be able to tame such a beast? From what I have seen in TC and with other players posting pics of these overpowered(for a tamable) dragons,500-600 int isn't unreasonable. This means the typical super dragon is at least 3x "smarter" than most characters.

    Lets put this in perspective shall we? Tamer tries to tame super dragon should equal to trying to play Michael Jordan in a game of one-on-one,either way you are gonna get ate up. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    INT dosnt matter. I know alot of college educated people and a good portion lack common sense. I like to call them overeducated dumb----s.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Would you be happy with GM real skill taming requirement?

    Personally the reason I think these dragys should need more taming skill is because our current top pet skill wise is the fire steed. This is the kind of pet that should be where it is, but at the same point I'd happily say GM gets you that dragon if it's real skill. That's more of a requirement than the fire steed and finally gives a tamer with 85 skill an actual incentive to go out and train. I don't get excited over titles, but I do get excited about the new pet I'll soon be able to tame, if that makes sense.

    Wenchy
     
  16. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Would you be happy with GM real skill taming requirement?

    Personally the reason I think these dragys should need more taming skill is because our current top pet skill wise is the fire steed. This is the kind of pet that should be where it is, but at the same point I'd happily say GM gets you that dragon if it's real skill. That's more of a requirement than the fire steed and finally gives a tamer with 85 skill an actual incentive to go out and train. I don't get excited over titles, but I do get excited about the new pet I'll soon be able to tame, if that makes sense.

    Wenchy

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I know your reply was to Samaira, but I'd like to respond:


    My tamer "twinks" to tame/lore/vet = 110/120/110, and if it's decided that the new dragons need to be 120/120/120, then I'll rework him.

    I don't care how high the tame / lore / vet requirement is, as long as the tamer is permitted to achieve that skill level in the same manner as a mage, or an archer, or a fencer; through the use of buffing items.


    Until the UO code is changed to say "you can't use that fantastic composite bow at all, unless you have real 120 archery", I'm going to keep arguing against imposing limitations on tamers, which are not applied to other professions.



    (I could accept 100/100/100 real skill to control the new dragons - but only on sufferance. Although a tamer-only limitation is being imposed, this is counterbalanced by the lower requirement.)
     
  17. + Skill jewels give new players the ability to work with a similar amount of skill points as someone that's been playing for 4 yrs and can use the points naturally.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I can see where you're coming from. I guess I should try twinking up different chars to see what benefits they get. I don't feel qualified to talk about all the other classes, as I don't know how much they rely on skill items and what the perks are. I always figured a fighter would minimise items so they could get all the DI type stuff on there.

    The only twinking I tend to do is with stealth on my tamer, who wears a burglar's bandana, but I'll happily re-work her if need be. If I hadn't pushed taming skills to the max she'd have just been 7x GM. Stupid powerscrolls lol. Oh and I've been known to twink up to tame cu sidhe for taming gains, but my young gals still only hunt with kitsune.

    Would dearly love to see every skill + item turned into mush, or at the least limited to just occur on bracelets and rings. Seems a bit out of control nowadays.

    Wenchy
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Would you be happy with GM real skill taming requirement?

    Personally the reason I think these dragys should need more taming skill is because our current top pet skill wise is the fire steed. This is the kind of pet that should be where it is, but at the same point I'd happily say GM gets you that dragon if it's real skill. That's more of a requirement than the fire steed and finally gives a tamer with 85 skill an actual incentive to go out and train. I don't get excited over titles, but I do get excited about the new pet I'll soon be able to tame, if that makes sense.

    Wenchy

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I know your reply was to Samaira, but I'd like to respond:


    My tamer "twinks" to tame/lore/vet = 110/120/110, and if it's decided that the new dragons need to be 120/120/120, then I'll rework him.

    I don't care how high the tame / lore / vet requirement is, as long as the tamer is permitted to achieve that skill level in the same manner as a mage, or an archer, or a fencer; through the use of buffing items.


    Until the UO code is changed to say "you can't use that fantastic composite bow at all, unless you have real 120 archery", I'm going to keep arguing against imposing limitations on tamers, which are not applied to other professions.



    (I could accept 100/100/100 real skill to control the new dragons - but only on sufferance. Although a tamer-only limitation is being imposed, this is counterbalanced by the lower requirement.)

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I'm in agreeance with Fluffi on this one. Tamer only skill restriction is a bunch of crap. Those items are in the game for a reason. To use. Board warriors are the only people I ever here complain about this.(like so many other issues) Just so we are on the same page my tamer is not a twink with full 120's across the board so the removal of these items wouldn't affect me in the slightest. Making real taming a requirment is the same as saying real thieving needs to be added to steal from players or from doom. That list goes on and on and on and tamers shouldn't be targeted because they happen to be the receiving side of new content.

    The real way to combat this "menance" that soo many people have come clamouring to the boards on this issue(?) is to make the difficulty to command them at a higher level. 120 would give normal control but less would cause many more commands to be ingnored.
     
  20. Samaira

    Samaira Lore Master
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    I would be more than happy with GM real skill requirement - I "gave up" on taming more than once during my sub-85 days, and the only thing that kept bringing me back was the allure of the Unicorn (shame the weak lil things have since disappointed me, heh).

    Personally, I don't agree that firesteeds are worth what they are, requirement wise, but as you say, its something to look forward to being able to tame.


    Aside: And for perks on other templates gained by using +skill items... vamp-sammy-pally. That template is a perfect example of why *excessive* use of +skill items suck - the sheer fact that a char can run with a minimum of 15 real necro skill and still cast Vamp Embrace is ******** (+5 on talisman, +20 Midnight Bracers, +19 Ash Runic Fishing Pole, +10 Mark of Trav, +15 on ring and brace = 99 Necro).
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    But I don't think that a new tamer should necesarily have access to the biggest baddest dragon around.

    Certain tames SHOULD require real skill and some it shouldn't matter.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    But I don't think that a new tamer should necesarily have access to the biggest baddest dragon around.

    Certain tames SHOULD require real skill and some it shouldn't matter.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Do you also agree that holy light should bear the same restrictions? or 7-8th circle mage spells? Why is taming so special? Is it because of the skill or the pet?
     
  23. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Would dearly love to see every skill + item turned into mush, or at the least limited to just occur on bracelets and rings. Seems a bit out of control nowadays.

    Wenchy

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I'm not sure I understand what you meant by the bolded bit... my tamer only has +15 from the hat and talisman, but a whopping +54 beneficial skills from jewels. Jewels are far more of a problem than non-jewelery pieces.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Its a bit of both.

    Its a skill that alot of people worked alot harder for then someone wearing jewels did.

    Its a skill the allows something to battle for you. Some of the pets have even been abused to do things while the tamer is AFK (Can't tell you how many Cu's I've dispatched in dungeons).

    And the pet is the TOP. That dragon is the strongest tame you can currently have. It should be reserved for those who have worked hard.

    And to boot, what does a tamer NEED Armour and Jewel wise to be viable in combat?

    Honestly nothing aside from the pet, maybe a bola. Siege players can attest to that much.

    I don't mind jewelry used to boost Lore for control, or vet to rez/heal it. Just the actual taming/owning part.

    I don't mind any chars using skill items to boost their char. I just think that Taming (not lore) is one skill that should have been left off of them. At the very least the strongest tame should be exclusive to those who have done it themselves. Just as new items and places are exclusive to the people who buy the expansions.

    I think it's bad enough we have taming adv chars, let alone players just tossing on jewels and BAM instant tamer.
     
  25. <blockquote><hr>

    But I don't think that a new tamer should necesarily have access to the biggest baddest dragon around.

    Certain tames SHOULD require real skill and some it shouldn't matter.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why should anyone be limited to what they can do unless they've invested years into the game? Any new player isn't going to want to hear they can't do something until they've got 3-4 YEARS time put in. No one will want to wait that long for anything. The way I see it, EVERYONE in the game, whether brand spanking new or a 10yr vet has access to the +Skill items, so there's no imbalance. Vets have the advantage of having played long enough to obtain the "uber" ones, which gives them the edge of being a vet.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Good point... Yeah the jewellery can roll stupid amounts of skill +'s at once... *twitches*

    Burn it all tbh [​IMG]

    Or being nice, perhaps allow all these items to have skill + but cap it like other properties at say +10 max. Then you can choose what part of your bod to attach said item, but not stack to silly levels.

    Wenchy
     
  27. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
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    I'd be happy with either burning or capping, just as long as it applies to all buff-stuff. [​IMG]
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You say this...
    "A "true" tamer - I have taming, lore and vet as high as I can (all over GM, base), while still being able to defend myself without my pets."

    Yet you say this...
    "My char's template looks like this:
    Taming 105.1 (+15 brace for active taming)
    Lore 110
    Vet 110
    Magery 100 (+15 Tome for reliable spellcasting)
    Med 100 (have had this lower, but as it is I fail more often than I'd like at medding)
    Hiding 100
    Stealth 80 (+20 Shadows)"

    I see no skills there that allow you to "Defend" yourself without your pet. Run away and hide? Yes. Defend yourself? No. Without Eval, your Magery spells other than Mind Blast are no good for offense. And to a oldschool tamer like me, that isn't a "True" Tamer template.

    I have 2 Tamer/Mages, and i worked both of them up by hand a LOONG time ago, before Advanced Char Tokens or even AoS came out with Skill Items, this is their real skills.

    Zeus (Elven Tamer/Mage)
    120.0 Taming
    120.0 Lore
    GM Vet
    GM Magery
    GM Eval
    GM Med
    80.0 Resist

    Zeus' Luck Ring has +15 Vet/100 Luck/4% DCI/18% Dam Inc/4% Cold Resist. It boosts him to 115.0 Vet allowing him to stable another pet. Other than being able to stable more pets, over GM Vet is quite worthless, considering at GM Vet you have a 100% Success rate at curing Lethal Poison, and you have a 62% chance to Rez.

    Aries (Human Tamer/Mage)
    110.0 Taming
    110.0 Lore
    GM Vet
    GM Magery
    GM Eval
    GM Med
    GM Resist

    Aries uses a Birds of Britannia Talisman to boost him to 115.0 Taming/115.0 Lore, i also have a +13 Eval/FC 1/FCR 3 Bracelet and a +9 Resist/FC 1/FCR 3 Ring i use on him. I use Swords of Prosperity on both Zeus and Aries to give them defense against non magical attacks. With a decent suit on Aries, i can duel another mage and win.

    It took me a year to GM Zeus' Taming, he got it off of White Wolves on Ice Isle, right before The Second Age came out. It took me about 8 months to GM Aries' Taming, because by then i knew what to tame at what skill levels.
     
  29. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Don't demean our dragons by calling them UBER....that's such a lame word.

    BA is more like it!!
    Sounds gimpy.......I do agree though, not everyone and his brother should have one.

    Just like vet rewards, time spent and recognition....a long time tamer that has paid his/her dues needs to be unique and outstanding to others in the community.

    Same goes for titles...I gave up wanting to have Lord before my name, when actually, it means nothing these days.........damn, gotta run.....
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Did I just enter a template critique thread by mistake?

    Other than "my template is better than yours", debatable in itself, what's your point exactly?

    Wenchy
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I just found it funny what she was saying. She said she was capable of defending herself without pets, yet posts a template that has no offensive power whatsoever outside of Pets/Summons. I gave her an example of a "True" Tamer Template that can defend itself.

    The new Great Wyrms are balanced due to the fact that they take 5 Control Slots. Nothing else can tank like them, but a Rune Beetle and Bake Kitsune combo (Or any other 2+3 Pet Control Combo) can outdamage them rather quickly, and also has higher burst damage for PvP.

    My Great Wyrm has 107.7 Wrest/107.4 Tact/100.7 Resist/96.4 Anat/104.4 Magery/89.7 Eval/GM Med. My previous trained Great Wyrm, which i gave to a friend when i got my new one, now has 114.5 Wrest/114.4 Tact, it should be capable of reaching 117.6 Wrest/121.7 Tact/111.9 Resist. Due to their' High Wrest, they should have a good chance of hitting monsters, and a good chance at dodging melee attacks, making them even better tanks.
     
  32. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    This discussion should have been had <u>before</u> the dragons were released, not after. Not after I've put several days into farming for a good one which I will be unable use if owning is based on real skill. I would defy anyone that knows anything about me to say I am a "twink tamer". I built my template around my skill+ items because that is what the game allows, and it works for my template, not because I am lazy, or unskilled, or not a "real" tamer, or [insert any other insult you can think of here].

    Discussions like this make me wonder what QA did to test the new dragons. Did they actually try to tame them? Did they use them in pvp? Did they max out their stats and skills and use them in pvp? Did they use them against all the peerless, did they max out their stats and skills and use them against all the peerless? Do the QA employees actually know how to play the game or are they just doing a job testing for bugs?

    If the answer to all those questions but the last is "yes", and the QA employees do know how to play the game then we can only assume they know what they are doing, and this discussion is pointless. If the answers are otherwise, then changes need to be made to the QA procedure, and we need to wait for a bit to see what actually happens with these new dragons before any changes are made.

    It has only been a few days since the publish and it is too early to say yet what the verdict on them should be.
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Don't get hung up on no eval = crap mage tamer, because that template is one of the most versatile when you use it right. Put it this way, this is 1 of my tamers:

    120 tame/120 lore/120 vet/100 herding/100 mage/100 hide/60 stealth

    I have eval soulstoned to swap with herding, but it's virtually never used. I had GM eval on her for years before I thought herding would be fun. I thought I'd miss it but actually adapted fine. I don't cast less offensive spells, just different ones. Sometimes takes me a bit longer, but so what? It achieves the same result. I go where I want including in Fel and I've yet to feel the template sucks [​IMG] The eval is there but rarely used *shrugs*

    Thing is, we could all limit ourselves to "the mage tamer must have eval" but it messes up with the fun and unusual templates. I was a very traditional 7xGM tamer till powerscrolls, then it was a case of "what to do with 60 leftover skill" and knowing how well my thief survived with stealth I added that. Med became hiding and I didn't look back. If you choose to keep your char in your idea of an old school tamer then knock yourself out. But don't tell others they're not "defensive" based on your definition of that and a template you think is superior. Different if someone says "what do you think of this char?" but that wasn't the case. UO would be a dull game if we all had cookie cutter templates following 9 YO standards.

    BTW they're greater dragons, not wyrms...

    Wenchy