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Hey Devs how about mage weapons ...

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Lord Bishop, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Time to put an end to the property. It really cheapens the warrior classes of archery, macing, swords, and fencing that a mage can equipe a weapon and have up to 120 weapon skill by having 120 magery. No other skill gets a free additional 120 skill other then magery with this property. Most mages probably already use a spellbook and shield and use wrestling and anat/eval for protection. BUT bards and tamers can wear the swords of prosperity get an extra 200 luck and gain a weapon skill for free. This type of blatant work around of the skill cap needs to be addressed please.
     
  2. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Usually, mage weapons either have at least -20 skill penalty, or they suck. Are there any mage weapons without skill penalty that actually are good?

    I actually play a mage with a honest 110 Fencing skill. It is fun! And I don't need mage weapons.
     
  3. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    You don't know the inquis/orny/crystalline/-20 mage wep with 15 dci trick do you? That gives -0 magery, one handed, and still 2/6 if there's no FC penalty.
     
  4. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    And all those items cost a LOT of money. Seems quite balanced to me as those items aren't easy to come by.
     
  5. Clarifier

    Clarifier Guest


    Staff of the Magi, Staff of Pyros and the Swords of Prosperity are three -0 mage weapons I know about.
     
  6. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Where is the dex coming from to make this work?
     
  7. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    He's not talking about parry so you don't need dex. The weapon is only for defense.

    As for the mage weaps, they're talking about player created one handed weapons with SC no negative and mage weap -20s.
     
  8. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    There is almost no offense for these weapons its a strickly DCI type thing. I use it and I get no specs and a no neg -20 wep with dci and a decent spell cost upwards of 40 mil (i paid 80 for mine) so yeah its not like its easy to get. How about we nerf deXXers so they cant play offense and defense at the same time and attack without stoping to move and lets make there swings interuptable?
     
  9. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    So you can only be gimped out if you PvM your ass off?

    Just because something costs a lot of money doesn't mean it's balanced. That combination has made damn near every single other mage template besides necro mage... worthless.

    On Siege, the only real way to run Necro Mage is to run with a staff of pyros/staff of magi/swords of pros... and for the uber offense you get... it restricts your drinking of pots and your defense.

    Theres advantages and draw backs to every template... we don't exploit item combinations in order to bypass the drawbacks... like on shards with insurance.

    - XX mage weapon skill should be restricted to ONLY 2 handed weapons.
     
  10. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    I guess you never played a necro mage with a mage weap only to be dismounted by a tamer and wrecked in 3 seconds?
     
  11. Shayne

    Shayne Guest

    Well if you think about it, they do get a small bonus on a weapon, but for what reason? They can't do any special moves even with 90+ tactics. They have to have the respective weapon skill also, and the "mage weapon" does not act as a stand in on that. Just my 2 cents.
     
  12. kinney42

    kinney42 Seasoned Veteran
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    Agree 100% with the OP. Pop on a mage weapon and you instantly get a free 100 to 120 skill points, as well as the defenensive power of a weapon skill, on top of being able to cast magery spells. It's far overpowered.
    How many mages would freak if there was an opposite property? One that gave you the ability to cast magery spells without the skill? Hell, I'd love to be able to summon some earthies or EV's with my warrior simply because I am holding a weapon with a property on it!!
     
  13. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    *Tongue firmly in cheek*
    No no no! you are going about this all wrong.
    We need more -skill weaps like a sewing kit that takes all your crafting skills and gives you 75% of the skill points to a weapon template. Also artie like the tinkers kit of carnage!!!
     
  14. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Because it's not being used to deal damage, it's being used to have a free 120 skill points where you would have 0 (20 if human), and have 15 extra DCI (or 30 if you use a shield) and still be able to chug pots. With the next publish, people in factions will be able to easily get 60 DCI with no shield with this set up. 75 with, which is just insane.
     
  15. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    "Are there any mage weapons without skill penalty that actually are good?"
     
  16. gen2000

    gen2000 Guest

    I've got a necro/mage that uses a mage weapon and arcane sheild.. Im 118 magery with my weapon, cryst. ring. 63 dci, all 70's after corpse. When I fight "good" dexxors with max=hci,dci,lmc, 50 ep, corpse proof (perfect suit).. I have to be really lucky to accually kill them. Most of the time I mana vamp, blooth oath, while trying to heal and stay alive... It's a pretty fair fight.. I fought a bush/ep dexxor last week for 20 mins, both running while redlined, back and forth, and he finally ran outa pots and had to leave. IMO it's balanced for pvp. If they take away -mage weapons, they will have to remove loads of items from the game, and nerf ep as well... Seems like alot of work for nothing...
     
  17. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    Weapon skill without tactics, anatomy etc is fairly useless for offense, mage weapons may give a bonus through mods but melee get those also. I am not seeing grounds for the nerf honestly.
     
  18. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Because it gives a free 120 skill points that aren't there normally, which equates to a pretty noticeable boost in defense?
     
  19. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    As a melee fighter I can put any weapon in my hand and get the mods with 0 skill, its still not going to be effective at 120 skill without the rest of the attributing skills melee fighters have. No tactics means no special maneuvers, no anatomy and you have to rely on jewelery for damage bonus etc. jewelery that is usually dedicated to fc/fcr or lrc. There are factors that balance out a weapon in the hands of a mage and a melee fighter without a nerf.
     
  20. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    Not really arguing pro or con, but this statement is incorrect. If you equip a mage wep you get only SOME advantages of the 120 swords, definitely not all. You cannot use special moves with mage weps, even with 120 tactics. Unless of course you also have the real melee skill.
     
  21. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    And again, they're not using it for offense... Which means no, they aren't using any jewelry or extra skills for damage/special moves.
     
  22. HaTeSpHeRe

    HaTeSpHeRe Guest

    I have been waiting for this post now for like 4 months. My opinion is that mage weapons are ridiculous. Now I know some people who dont even need dci on their mage weapon. They build the dci into their suit, so even if disarmed they still have max dci. I have a bush dexxer, max hci, max dci, max ep, 120 weapon skill, and i find that to disarm a mage weapon takes at least three swings. I mean people have said for years playing a mage is about skill, knowing when to cast, casting through bleed, knowing good combos, however this mage weapon makes that null in void. Any person could play that temp, almost effectively. Now people keep saying those items are tough to get. Are you Serious? Gold is what like 1 dollar a mill. So you spend 20 bucks, you got a crystaline ring, spend 30 bucks you got inquis. Good Mage weapons arent hard to find. Now lets take this a step further. What about a bush mage. they put on 120 bush, 120 parry, 50 weapon skill, then with 120 magery and a staff of the magi(being two handed gets max bonus for parry) you are able to evade. Now yes this does require 80 dex to be effective, but with all the armor that is being created with hammers, it is very possible to get mana bonus. To me i think that is just so over powered its not even really worth playing.

    But yet again just my opinion.
     
  23. K'torr

    K'torr Guest

    The "Mage Weapon" mod should only come on Staffs or Daggers.
     
  24. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I have a PvM-only mage with 120 Magery, 120 Eval, GM resist, meditation & inscription (though sometimes I take inscription off for Fishing). Her other skills are GM Tactics and 80 Chivalry.

    I love my mage weapons - because I beat things into past with them.

    I can kill Ice Fiends without casting a magery spell (great for building honor).

    I got all my looting rights on Melissa with her, by beating her down with my mage weapons (because a mage, simply casting, could NOT get rights, unless they had an obscene amount of SDI - I know I never managed it even after altering my suit to get 50% SDI)

    I found that using spells at a peerless would not get me looting rights (with or without summons) when there were tamers involved - but using summons AND a -25 mage weapon Bow would; even a slow one with no SSI.

    I've now got the jewelry to switch to as to offset the loss of magery completely with any mage weapon, while maintaining my LRC (My suit's LMC is almost 40 by itself) - and neither piece is an artifact.

    Now, if you want a trigger that makes "mage weapon" skill not apply in PvP, that's fine. But, I like it, personally. What's really needed is to make it rarer. Merge it with Spell Channeling. Have Spell Channeling (FC -1) be 1-90% intensity of the property, and have it include mage weapon from 91%-100% (with the strength of the mage weapon skill be 120 minus the intensity rolled, so 95% intensity would be SC -1, mage weapon -25, as one property).
     
  25. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Its not about wether you like the skill its obvious the property is unbalanced. As for good mage weps as asked previously the swords of prosperity not only give 120 wep skill but also 200 luck. So if you play a tamer or a bard with 120 magery you have 120 wep skill for when your barding fails or the moster targets you rather then the pet. (that is a pvm example). I one-handed mage skill weapon with sc no penalty 10-15 dc and hit lightning/fireball what have you is also out of whack for pvp. Those templates that use magery get a free 100-120 skill. If thats not abusing the skill cap what is? Those templates should be using wrestling or eval/anat for def. Seems fairly simply the property is abusive more so that any other.
     
  26. Ericge99

    Ericge99 Guest

    Mages have had it so good for ages now, while every other template has been nerfed to the max, especially archers. I dont see why they get to double dip so to speak when everyone else can't. Come on UO lets ballance this out one and for all. :bowdown:
     
  27. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    You insist in stating the false. With 120 wep skill you can use special moves (combining them with tactics, or stealth, or poisoning). With 120 magery you cannot, tactics or not, mage wep or not. Therefore you have not been given 120 wep skill, only part of them.

    Now, there are good arguments against mage weapons. Use them. Insisting on incorrect statements, especially after being pointed that they are incorrect, only weakens your position.
     
  28. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Stichers mittens +5 dex WOOT. My bard uses Staff of pyros for doom/undeadspanws I also dont max out int I use the elven bonus instead of for extra mana for extra dex! 50 dex isnt much but it sure kills undead criters good!
     
  29. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest


    Yes its correct it doesnt give you Weapon Skill, you cannot use it for Weapon specials.. But this is not what they're trying to do.. They use it for the Defensive bonus of Having a weapon skill without having the actual skill.

    With a One Handed Kryss SCNP -20 Mage Weapon +15% DCI, Crystal Ring/Orny/Inquis.. They have no drawback on the -20 Mage Or Lower Casting.. With it also being a one handed weapon templates like.. necromage can chug pots without having to give up a skill for weaponskill... such as resist.

    Now for everyone saying.. Its not a weapon skill no tactics! No specials..
    They dont give a **** about specials.. They are using it for Onehanded Chugging and DCI Bonus with Defensive weaponskill.. Necromage has enough offense to not need a special from the weapon itsself.. Plus the DCI on the weapon Makes a huge difference in your suit where you dont have to give up another piece of actual armor or wear a shield because your weapon (Which gives you Weapon Skill Defensive Bonus and is one handed) Already has the DCI on it..

    Get lucky and find a Kryss SCNP -20 mage Wep 15% DCI that has... lets say 40% Lower Attack.. and forget about a dexxer ever touching you.
     
  30. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    But you still haven't replied to the point that some of us actually DO use it to kill things, not for defensive purposes - or are you so centered on the PvP issue that you ignore some of us actually use the weapon AS a weapon, that never go to Fel?

    If it's that much an issue, try to talk Mythic into not letting the mage property work in the fel ruleset. After all, it's not like they'll actually remove the property (look how many UBWS bows are still out there, even though UBWS never worked as a property on them - that they promised to change to a new property, and never did).
     
  31. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Much like UBWS cheapens archery? There are nuances & niches all over this game, which I find preferable to having everything homogenised into sameness.

    There are no classes, only templates. Nothing stopping you from using a spell channelling weapon on your dexxer and adding magery to your tempate so you can have summons tank for you or something. The imaginary line between mage and melee fighter can become very blurred indeed.
     
  32. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    You mean the mage/fencer? There is no DEX. Well, not more than 10. I have some stamina increase items and a weapon with 30% SSI.
     
  33. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    I for one do not care about pvm at all.. My threat was at a 100% PvP Perspective
     
  34. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    This whole post is ridiculous..

    Obviously from someone who just got "wtfpwned" or whatever, looked at the other guy from grey-mode and thought,

    "he's got a mage weapon! no wonder he killed me, it's not fair! My leet archer should have killed him in 3 shots like all the others!"

    Total crap. Mage-weapon is the only thing that allows my Necromage to even play in Felucca.

    And still, what happens constantly? Archers will kill the **** out of you if they hit you once. ONCE is all they need for their HLD to go off.

    Crying because you miss 3 times in a row? Suck it up.

    How about when I'm completely locked down and can't even cast 'In Mani' while running away from a Moving Shot spamming Archer that never misses? You don't see me crying about that on Uhall. I just rez up, and think of how I can change my tactics if I see taht player again on the field.

    Mage weapons do nothing but ALLOW mages to even have a snowball's chance in hell to PVP.

    Period.:scholar:
     
  35. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Absolutely true.

    If you want some real changes for the better, think about removing the special moves Dismount and Disarm.

    That change right there would really balance things, can't everyone at least agree on that?
     
  36. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I could careless. But it will be funny thing if they really did it and removed mage weapon mod. Everyone is gonna go archery and disarm moving shot spam. Archers are heavily item dependent thus do not require too much skill. So everyone will turn into archers.

    Since pure mage is not a viable template anymore. Necromage is almost the only option left for mage players. A lot of them use mage weapon with hit spell to save skill points while adding a little offensive power. But oh well Go ahead and remove mage weapon from the game.

    I am a UO player since early 99 and Ive been thru so much changes. I dont cry or whine about anything being changed or nerfed even if it's my own char. However I keep my opinions rational just for the sake of discussion. And in this case mage weapon is too powerful for an item mod just like Balanced on bows. They are very similar and they are so good that a template can be developed so well around an ITEM-MOD and the template wont work right without such items. Also I think vamp form should be SS dependent (Sampires have been avoiding to discuss this with me:lick:)

    If you think I am a mage I say mage weapon should be removed.
    If you think I am a sampire I will say I cant wait till next patch.
    If you think I am an archer I will say delete balanced and EP mods
    If you think I am a tamer I will say to hell with +skill jewlery please take them away.

    Unlike the whinning crowd I dont defend my characters, or attacking other's template. You can already see so many QQing sampires stop complaining about vamp form change (because even they KNOW it was rediculous but they cant admit it). They know the change is set in stone so they started whining about other more popular classes.

    Please be rational and keep UHall a place for discussion and not crying festival.
     
  37. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    First off if you don't understand that a mage wepon gives you 120 free skill pts I'm not sure what you incorrect position help in this discussion. For those who make me out to be a pvper I'm not and never have been. I perfer to craft, monsterbash, and run from pks when I hunt in fel. MY ARGUMENT is two-fold we have a 720 skillcap (if vet 4 yrs) mage wepons allow char with magery to have 820+ skill pts. To defend themslves from mosters or pvpers they do not have to spend skill pts on wrestling or anatomy. (I could care less about your special move arguments the property bypasses the skill cap). Secondly, for those that pvm be it a voker/disco mage bard or a mage/tamer mage/tamer/bard swords of prosperity give you the same def ability as having 120 wep skill. +200 luck Thats my argument I teach math the numbers are not flawed although other peoples argument maybe. P.S. you don't need specials on the wep with the above pvm templates.
     
  38. ake

    ake Adventurer
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    one hand sc -20 no penalty mage weapon r fine tbh...
    u can't use specials (u need both close combat skill and 90 tact)
    they r quite rare but they came from loot and craft.
    very usefull on pvm and pvp.

    imo u cry just coz u r unable to find a cool one.
     
  39. WWGRD?

    WWGRD? Adventurer
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    You people act like mages running with a mage wep don't ever get hit... It's not godmode. We do get hit, even with 60 DCI. And ffs, you work quizzies into a suit and not make it suck, it's not easy. Quizzy's have the ****ttiest resist I've ever seen.
     
  40. gen2000

    gen2000 Guest

    Totally agree!
     
  41. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Wow you keep crying the same mantra mage weapons give mages a snowballs chance in pvp we get hit too and you don't get specials with with mage weapons wha wha. You GET a FREE 100-120 skill pts in agame that has 720 max thats unbalanced. You have skills specifically designed for mages anatomy and wrestling use them and don't abuse the skill pt max. Jeremy says they are balancing the game this needs to be addressed.
     
  42. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    Looks like the OP forgot to speak about the Use Best Weapon property ...
     
  43. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Who or what is the OP? The discussion/point is about skill cap and mage wep property bypassing the cap
     
  44. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    The problem is not so much the mage weapons but the +skill items. Thats why I believe they should change all +skill items to not take you over 100 skill in all skills but Crafting skills.
     
  45. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Yes yes yes sampires need necromancy now to use vamp form (if refused to leave items equipped after casting vamp form)

    Damn Jeremy didnt give a direct answer to take tamers out rightaway. Lets go to the next attempt, please nerf mage weapon NOW. If that doesnt work that's complain about jewlery giving gamebreaking mods.

    Damn when will this end?
     
  46. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    Yeah, Remove the mage weapon property when they let mages cast on the run and not be interuptable and give us 4/6 casting back so we can deal damage comparably to an archer or macer. But a mage does take skill so these guys are just crying because a skilled mage can kill there point and click char lol. Keep crying because mages have been nerfed constantly.
     
  47. gen2000

    gen2000 Guest

    yea it's getting pathetic.. I started pvping in like 2003, there have been alot of gimp overpowered temps over the years.. now the -mage weapon is being used to create the gimpest temps ever!!...NOT!! pvp is the most balanced it's been in the past 3-4 years... There are small imbalances in pvp at the moment, but -mage weapons are sure not on that list.. LMFAO!!
     
  48. And you get a free 100 Eval on all of your hit spell weapons. People like you are exactly what makes UO hall what it is. You want the easiest possible playstyle with the least amount of thought involved.
     
  49. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    What would it be the skill you get at 120? That's certainly not a weapon skill. You can use special moves with the wep skill while you cannot use them with magery. Maybe you know some other skill that I am not aware of?

    You are using an overexaggeration to prove your point. Go right ahead, that weakens your position, not my concern.
     
  50. Abyss

    Abyss Guest



    QFT. So what about 25-30 point moving shots and 70+ conc blows. Funny how my "120 free weap skill" seems to get me hit most of the time anyway. Just about every dexxer I know that swings his little weap every 1.25 seconds will hit me 3 times before I can get 2 fireballs off and some how I'm the imbalanced one? Seriously...