1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Hidden Tamers

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Risso, Feb 17, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    102
    Will they ever put a stop to this? I'm talking about the people who stand hidden in dungeons whilst their pet clears spawn, now a common sight in the new Blackthorn dungeon. People complain about those who macro/script, but I really don't see why this should be considered a legal playstyle. The tamer puts in no effort, and is in no personal danger - all they need to do is pass a JOAT Hiding check and they are set to stand in the dungeon all day and receive drops. It's no great difficulty to aggro the mobs before their pet even gets a chance to target, but its frustrating to see the pet still standing guard over their hidden owner when I leave, as it likely still will be until server down.
     
  2. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    I love my tamer, but I agree that this practice of unattended pets should stop. I just don't think it is an easy balance between stopping it and not punishing the honest tamers. Do you have any ideas how you can do that?

    Maybe a hiding timer based on skill? Such as, JOAT skill or 20 real skill will leave you hidden for 2 minutes, and 1 additional minute for each 10 real skill in hiding. This would allow you to time out in-game while hidden with 50 skill points, and stay hidden for 10 minutes at 100 skill. People could still abuse this, but it would make it much harder for the JOAT skill only hiders.

    Other than that, I have no ideas.
     
    startle likes this.
  3. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Bad idea. While this fixes one issue it creates many other issues elsewhere in the game. I don't want my stealther revealed every 10 minutes while I'm in Doom or the Dojo, etc.
     
    kRUXCg7, legendsguy and Rieley like this.
  4. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    323
    Why start another thread? Just look down a page or two back and it is already a thread of it.
     
    kRUXCg7 and Viper09 like this.
  5. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    Hiding/stealth tamers are a valid and legal template. As long as they can respond to a GM if needed that should be the end of it. I do not have a stealth tamer but why should I care if someone else does? My disco tamer can kill other mobs much easier than a stealth tamer can.

    If you want to hunt the same spot as someone else, hidden or not, nothing is stopping you. I fail to see how someone else's playing is hurting you unless it is just envy that someone else can do something easier than you. Let it go.
     
  6. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    I didn't say it was a great idea, just an idea. However, as far as your example it really isn't an issue - all you have to do is re-hide before the 10 minutes is up. I do this all the time when I need to use a spell to hide and then re-hide using the skill.
     
  7. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    102
    I already said its not affecting my ability to hunt, but I don't see why should someone get the same rewards as an active, attended player for literally doing nothing. If I used scripts to gain skills or farm resources, occasionally checking for GM messages, should other people just 'let it go' because I am not preventing them from playing and they can easily work around it - I mean, they're probably just jealous of how easy I make it look right?
     
    #7 Risso, Feb 17, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  8. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716

    No, we should not let it go. Cheating should not be allowed, period. It hurts the honest players, the game economy, and the game in general.
     
    Captn Norrington likes this.
  9. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,239
    Likes Received:
    330
    Might as well then add to the list all the afk bank sitters all day long working off murder counts as well,
     
    virtualhabitat likes this.
  10. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    Stealth tamers are NOT cheating.
     
    kRUXCg7, Speranza and virtualhabitat like this.
  11. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
    The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,956
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    No, but AFK hidden tamers are. The 54 minax arties I've collected off them tell me so.
     
  12. petemage

    petemage Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    328
    If my stealth mystic gets nerfed as collateral damage to some half thought hidden tamer changes, i would be really.. uhm.. disappointed. Please consider stealth / hiding not as base to a solution to this. These are perfectly valid skills for every template you wish to play a bit less stressing and it would be a shame to mess up loot for us not actually being AFK but hidden.
     
    #12 petemage, Feb 17, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  13. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    If you have to use a script to accomplish something then you are breaking the TOS whether you affect someone else or not. That's is a completely different discussion. Stealth tamers are using thier skills as they were designed. Do you complain because an archer can hit a mob across the screen while a swordsman has to get close? What about that Mage spells never miss but a warriors weapon does? All templates have advantages and disadvantages, and certain areas or mobs amplify those advantages. So what if a stealth tamer can kill a bunch of hell hounds and stay stealthed? Send that same stealth tamer into dread horn solo and see if they come out alive like a sampire can.

    Stealth tamers aren't cheating. Period! Yes thier template gives them a nice advatage in those rooms, but if we are going to go down the road of nerfing every template that gains an advantage in some fight we might as well all run around with naked campers.
     
    startle, drewster513 and kRUXCg7 like this.
  14. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
    The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,956
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    I simply do NOT understand why they don't make the change for tamers to have to say "All Kill". To me, it's that simple. But I also feel all dexxor/archer chars should have to physically target their foes as well instead of instant target.
     
    Captn Norrington likes this.
  15. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    I have collected more than that from the afk ones. Kill them or report them if you think they are afk, but nerfing a template because someone can go afk is dumb. Fighting afk is not limited to stealth tamers or blackthorn dungeon and there is already a remedy available to deal with it.
     
  16. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    Rather than changing a pretty basic game mechanic like autodefend, I think we just need better random GM afk checks in highly prone areas. Let GMs do thier job and deal with those who afk.
     
  17. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    I never said they were, and you know exactly what I meant. The cheaters are those who do so unattended, hour after hour. I know the difference.

    You can't kill or report the unattended ones in Trammel.
     
  18. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2010
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    197
    Once your pet is engaged with something you should not be able to hide anymore. A brief hide from invis or the hide skill would still work,but you`d pop right back to visible if pet is engaged. That would allow for breaking of aggro and whatnot. Lazy people should not be rewarded by using an exploit like this. Standing still hidden while a pet does the rest for hours on end should not be allowed. It cheapens the game and puts you on par with lumber/miner scripters in my book.
     
  19. Rieley

    Rieley Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    83
    The "AFK" should be a person/EA's only concern.

    Leave the tamer out of this, including any chosen skills the tamer has.
     
  20. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    Your proposal would only seem viable in a room with one mob. The use of invis or hiding is also relevant to keep every other mob in the room from going agro on the tamer. Hiding and stealth are legitimate skills to be used exactly as they are designed by thieves, mages, tamers, pvpers and any other template who wants to use them. Nerfing hiding is not the answer to someone who is afk.

    If you are really arguing that an attended tamer should not be able to sit back and watch thier pet work for them then I would say it's just envy talking. Personally I would be bored to death sitting watching a screen for hours, but if that is what someone else wants to do its no skin off my nose as long as they are within the rules.
     
  21. Felonious Monk

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    154
    It's been allowed since day one. EA built a dungeon that rewards that template and the use of those skills more than other templates. Determining whether a player is afk or not is to me the only issue here. I would expect zero action in this area for quite a while as Broadsword is transitioning into all of these different view points and needs to establish a foothold here.
     
    startle and Rieley like this.
  22. Dag Nabbit

    Dag Nabbit Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    350
    Give all mobs there 100 in both detect hidden and tracking and the problem is solved.
     
  23. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    575
    The "lazy people should not be rewarded by using an exploit" caught my attention. Stealth is a valid skill not an exploit. Sampires are just as lazy because they can camp the very same spots and do absolutely nothing but stand there as well. Sampires can stand still and do nothing in a lot of spots a tamer can't. Maybe we should have them take a look at how lazy THAT template is.

    If you think they're afk, page and move on with life. It's just crazy talk to want to nerf anything else in this game.
     
    startle, Olahorand, kRUXCg7 and 3 others like this.
  24. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716

    You cannot report the hidden players in Trammel. You can't see the person and have no one to report. While I do agree that we don't need to nerf anything, I do think something should be done about the unattended macroing in Blackthorn's Dungeon.

    Well, today someone led all the mages away from the poor lonely dragon on LS - at least this is still allowed.
     
    #24 Winter, Feb 17, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  25. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,749
    Likes Received:
    3,541
    you dont have to be scripting to be breaking TOS. any unattended character that is doing something is against TOS. you dont have to use a script to autoattack a golem or wolf spider, but it IS technically cheating. as is afk stealth tamers. i doubt the sanity of anyone who would use a stealth tamer and be fully emerged in the gameplay.
     
    Captn Norrington likes this.
  26. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    6,032
    Likes Received:
    145
    Any time you do damage, you should be revealed (like it is on every other stealth character).

    I deathstrike someone, I smoke bomb, damage goes off I'm revealed.

    I throw a conflag, I hide, damage ticks, I'm revealed.

    Same should apply to taming. If your pet is doing damage while you're hidden you should be revealed.

    Be careful if you do this though, because then everyone will quit playing Siege Perilous, because the only people that play there are stealth tamers who compassion res if you do kill them and hide instantly.
     
  27. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    I didn't say scripting was the only way to break the TOS, just that scripting definitely was. Nerfing autodefend or hiding and stealthing is not the answer to people who afk.
     
    startle, drewster513 and kRUXCg7 like this.
  28. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    2,041
    I disagree that pet or summons doing damage should reveal the player, only damage directly from the player.
     
  29. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2010
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    197

    This is the way it should be. Pet is engaged in battle, your visible.
    No other class can stay in battle and do damge without being visible.

    And your bitterness toward SP pvm`rs is amusing.
     
  30. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    265
    Ironically PvPers have been complaining about stealth tamers for years, and now PvMers are.
     
  31. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    I have no complaints about stealth tamers. My complaint is the unattended macroing - which is also a problem with unattended sampires, or any other skill (such as mining or chopping trees).
     
  32. Speranza

    Speranza Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,451
    Likes Received:
    760
    Use the tracking skil. Even with JOAT you can find them.
     
  33. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    689
    I reveal hidden afk tamers in Trammel all the time - it's not that hard :)

    so much fun watching them stand there and die (there is a way to do it - hehe)
     
    Jade of Sonoma and Rieley like this.
  34. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Likes Received:
    716
    No humans, no JOAT - so tracking doesn't work.


    What's the secret?
     
  35. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    6,032
    Likes Received:
    145

    Its not just their PvMers. They seriously PvP like that. They all kill, hide. When you do kill them they self res, and say all kill, and hide again.
     
    Mitzlplik_LS likes this.
  36. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Reward drop breaks hiding. If they cannot then say hi back then tram luring doesn't apply. Journal record FTW. I know if I don't hit the fridge fast for a soda and take a crap fast my character will be auto logged out. Seeing the same character parked at the bank 14 hours straight. Ya they are not running anything against TOS. Knickle shoved in the F4 key FTW. Go on LS to Delucia, Papua, Vesper and the SE smith shops morning, noon and night. Same two characters will show making sure the forge didn't get nicked I bet. I feel the the GMs thumbs have broke off in their buttocks and it is impeeding their ability to use a mouse or keyboard. New yaer and yet have to say the game would have more players if it was policed. Done turning cheek and my account count is showing that.
     
  37. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    575
    Actually you can page in the generic with pet name and location and go live your UO life. It doesn't have to be the harassment option. Perhaps you can target the pet...i haven't tried.
     
  38. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    575
    It's already policed...by the players. I call them the UOPD and they page over everything. It's really no wonder GM's never come anymore if they're being flooded with minor issues when more pressing issues exist.

    Why can't everyone just be happy we're even still here after all these years?
     
    startle and kRUXCg7 like this.
  39. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Yes and the "Got your nose" style of ammusment does get old in time. The number of players here defending AFK farming compared to what left of the player base. Makes me wonder what motivates their defending it. Any given day you can bann half dozen players for being AFK at the bank and magically they don't auto log.
     
  40. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    I never realized you could hide with only 20 skill. Now you've put ideas in my head.
     
  41. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    The only defense I see here is to the stealth tamer template. I don't see anyone defending the act of afk farming.
     
    startle likes this.
  42. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    575
    I'm not defending anything. I cannot understand why people can't play the game without having their nose in what everyone else is doing. The hidden tamers may be afk or they may not. People don't have to pop out and say hi to anyone that walks on screen so it's just pure speculation wether anyone is indeed afk or not. It doesn't effect my gameplay nor anyone else wether or not someone has a pet or a sampire parked somewhere.

    Yadd of Legends Yes if you're human you get the Joat 20 hiding which will work eventually and especially near a wall.
     
    startle, Merus, kRUXCg7 and 2 others like this.
  43. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
    Stratics Veteran The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    So what I hide so I'm not bothered by nosy players who ask me things to see if I'm even around so they may call a GM on me. I'm a player that plays the game never leaves my seat, and if I have to I leave the area then I come back when I'm done doing what I was doing.
    Yes I must confess I'm a GM hiding tamer :p
     
    startle, Rieley and Jade of Sonoma like this.
  44. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    I feel sorry for the OP.

    So concerned about what other players are legally doing that he is frustrated even when he is long gone and until server down?

    That's disturbingly sad imo :(
     
  45. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    166
    Isso wrote: "all they need to do is pass a JOAT Hiding check"
    - - excuse my ignorance :dunce: but what is a JOAT Hiding check? JOAT =??

    Is it a bit obvious that I am a wee bit behind in knowing what is happening in the game. Not sure where Blackthorn's Dungeon is located yet either but eventually will figure it out. I am not a GM Hiding tamer but I do cast invis on self when needed.
     
  46. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,690
    Likes Received:
    126
    Just bring a dragon from down the hall into the room. It will reveal the hiding tamer. The afk meleers do to me often. then they take over the afk killing.
     
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  47. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    642
    All of my characters are deaf-mutes, elves and two humans. We don't say 'hi'.

    The only redeeming quality this thread has, aside from my comment, is that is has contributed to my post count.
     
    startle, Rieley and kRUXCg7 like this.
  48. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    JOAT = Jack of All Trades = the 20 in each skill that a human has automatically as a racial bonus, even when the skill reads 0. But I didn't know until this thread that a human character could pull of a successful hide with just that 20 default skill. On the other hand, "passing the JOAT hiding check" = it might take four or five tries to do it.
     
  49. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    That's funny - and now I have another post count.
     
  50. Jade of Sonoma

    Jade of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    166
    Yadd of Legends: " a human character could pull of a successful hide with just that 20 default skill"

    I didn't know that for a long time but used it occasionally and decided a few years ago, that it only works with humans.

    Still, when fighting the Greater Paragon Dragons, I had to cast invis on self until my dragon was attacked first by the Paragon GD, then move up closer by a few steps and often have to cast invis again then call my Dragon to my side with the Paragon following it, to get my dragon in a spot where I can reach it, cast Greater Heal and use bandages to heal my Greater Dragon. I would sometimes get killed in the process. Often I would work three or more hours without a break, and many times had to leave the area again, take a break and return to start the battle over again.

    for your info: VirtualHabitat
    I am too busy keeping my Greater Dragon alive when hunting for my favorite item = a Greater Dragon Paragon WHITE Chest, to worry about taking a break.


    Anyhow, for what it's worth, I am a Legendary tamer/Legendary-mage playing solo, and am not particularly interested in getting rich. I love growing plants/seed-quests, plus gathering neon colored glacial staves and enjoy building craft skills. Plus I do like to keep up with all the new things introduced to the game and eventually do so.
     
    #50 Jade of Sonoma, Feb 18, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
    startle, Olahorand and virtualhabitat like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.