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Hit Lower Defense Cap?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by xxrod17xx, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. xxrod17xx

    xxrod17xx Adventurer

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    I am making a pvp char, have mace and shields on thats 30%, then I have a pitchfork on with 50% and my ec client is telling me that i am at 65% is there a cap I dont know about?
     
  2. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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  3. xxrod17xx

    xxrod17xx Adventurer

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  4. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    65% is the odds of the HLD going off on any given hit you deliver. Pinco's is doing the math for you....

    100 hits....
    50 of those hits will "proc" HLD from your pitchfork...
    of the remaining 50 hits... 30% of them will "proc" HLD from your glasses... aka 0.3 x 50 = 15

    50 + 15 = 65 out of 100 hits will result in the HLD effect.. aka 65%
     
  5. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Well that puts an all new perspective on it for me. Had always thought it took both into consideration at the same time and would result in an 80% chance at hld.
     
  6. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    HLD does not stack so simply, its one of those stupid long calculations i cant get my head around. If you have 2 items with HLD +10 on them it wont = HLD 20

    I think this is the formula HLD Total = [1-(1-HLD1)*(1-HLD2)*(1-HLD3)...]


    If i remember correctly the HLD cap is 80
     
    #6 Winker, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  7. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    UOGuide.com states "There is no cap on Hit Lower Defense."
     
  8. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    what he meant by the cap to 80% is the actual maximum HLD you can wear at one time is two items : mace and shield 30% and a weapon with 70%. SO 70 + (30% x remaining 30)= 70 +9 =79 or rounded up to 80.

    So actually the mace and shield is almost useless here since it will only adds 9% HLD. The best advantaged setup for HLD on a warrior is to have only 1 HLD item : a weapon of 70%.
     
    #8 Quickblade, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  9. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Yes alot of people misunderstand this about HLD. its not a simple stack. there is no cap tho, so if gloves, gorget and sleeves ever came out with 30 HLD on them, and you had mace & shields and 50% on weapon, you could use them all but it wouldnt really be a smart choice.

    If you think about it simply without calculations, you have a separate proc on each item. those procs are often going to overlap each other, giving no additional benefit.
     
  10. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I'm totally confused now. I was rocking mace n shields and then 50 HLD on my butchers knife. Is this wasted then?
     
  11. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    Can a Dev come give us the formula please since we dont all play on Pincos
     
  12. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
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    IM pretty sure Vexxed was right and if we take his example ..

    1. On an average of 100 hits :
    30% of the 100 hits (30 hits) will proc HLD from the lenses. So thats 30%
    Then on the other 70 hits remaining, 50% of these 70 hits will proc HLD from the knife. Which is 35%
    So addition 30% + 35% =65% should be the odds.
    2. But if we do it from the other view:
    lets start with the knife... on 100 hits:
    50% of the 100 hits(50 hits) will proc HLD from knife. So thats 50%
    then 50 hits remaining, 30% of 50 hits will proc from Lenses. So thats 15%
    total 50% +15% = 65% Also

    SO we have two different scenarios with the same conclusion. first scenario tells us 30% from lenses and 35% from Knife=65%
    And the second 15% from lenses and 50% from Knife=65% Also
    So Which one is the true % for each items you think? Only a dev could come confirm this. Maybe it always starts with the highest % item (knife in this case) then goes the lower (lenses) which would be the second scenario.

    EDIT: Well with some réflexions, if both scenarios have the same conclusion it doesnt matter which item give what real% because once you combine two HLD items, it becomes the same conclusion odds : in this case 65%. The only thing to remember with HLD I think is, as soon as you add in a second HLD item remember it will not be a % that proc off every of your hits because there is another item that have his part of % to proc. So the second HLD item will always be lower than his actual% on the artifact which will make the total odds drop a bit at final. In this case Mace n shield and a 50% HLD knife will not make 80% but 65%.
     
    #12 Quickblade, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    this is a really good discussion tho for many reason. many people overvalue items, mostly HLD weapons and stamina jewels because they dont understand this. It opens up gear options alot more when you realize your only getting 15% hld off those mace and shields if you have it on weapon. (im not saying they are not very valuable mods, but understanding hld is key to maximizing what you really want out of a suit and weapon)
     
    #13 Smoot, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
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  14. xxrod17xx

    xxrod17xx Adventurer

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    I am glad I asked, opened my eyes...throws mace and shields in corner
     
  15. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah, I am glad you asked too. I am not so quick to toss them in the corner though. Granted it winds up only being a 15% greater chance in it actually hitting, but sometimes that 15% could make a ton of difference. I have notice that with UO 50% is usually not a true 50% lol
     
  16. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    I use 34 or 50 % on my weapon because that equates to either three or two swings on average. 30% still is 30%,but in swing intervals that is four swings. I don't use M&S for that reason. However, you have to take duration into account, which melee and archery differ. I forget the numbers after the HLD nerf, but you only need to calculate the number of successes needed on a average after the expire timer. I think 50% is he most efficiency in suit property weight and continual effect.

    -Lorax
     
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  17. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    70% or even 79% is better, but in archery I think in terms of swing intervals since bows are slow. Anything between 50.1% and 99.9% is still two swing intervals on average. If you can always swing at 1.25s (melee) and the proc timer duration is in many seconds then one hit difference is no big deal. HLD was made to not continually proc after the changes so there will always be at least one swing after the proc expires where the calculation matters. Once the proc sets on the target the HLD property is useless/wasted until it expires.

    This is the perfect time after the proc success to switch weapons to something like HLA for a few swing intervals or hit fatigue. So weapon combos are a great way to optimize the overall combat effect. Like use bleed or mortal strike with HLD and then switch to a weapon that has HLA, Hit fatigue, and armor ignore. After the proc duration switch back to the HLD weapon with bleed or mortal strike.

    -Lorax
     
    #17 Lorax_Pacific, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  18. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I never run with any more than HLD 30% and that's on my Glasses. There are 2 reasons for this, the first is if i am PvPing, everyone i am playing with will have HLD on their weapons or glasses too, so someone's HLD will go off on the called target. Second is its a waist of mods to have a second one on a weapon, there are far better choices than having a second HLD mod
     
  19. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    After reading this thread this is now my thinking. I think I will remove the 50 from my weapons now and just roll with the 30 on my glasses.
     
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  20. Vexxed

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    It's simply a matter of understanding HOW it works and then make your own choice. In PvP it just depends on what you are giving up for any given mod. The funniest part about this conversation is that It shows up periodically and each time people are like WOW really?