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Honest question about 75% of the SA expansion

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Widow Maker, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Ok Devs...you released this nice expansion.

    You gave us Gargolyes, Imbuing, Throwing and Mysticism.

    You very obviously do not want us playing Gargoyles because you nerfed them so hard they are utterly useless except as an Imbue crafter.

    Throwing...heh...the only people who have Throwing have it stored on a stone in the hopes it will one day it may be useful, because right now there is simply no use for it in PvM or PvP. To be honest..it completely sucks as a killing skill.

    It is now also extremely evident that you don't want us using Mysticism either. This last patch makes it crystal clear because you removed any reasons that anyone put Myst on their characters. I, personally, now have to occupy several soul stones with a worthless skill...just like Throwing.

    So now the question:

    Why did you spend all that money in development of game additions that you then show us that you do not want us to use?

    I look forward to any insight on this issue, that a Dev Team member can enlighten us with.

    Mods..this is not a rant. It is an honest open question to the Dev Team. I am truly curious as to the answer of this question.
     
  2. Walkerboh77

    Walkerboh77 Guest

    *sniff* *sniff* ......i dunno...it smells like a rant
     
  3. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    *look* *look*... looks like a rant...

    The mysticism, they took it from requiring THREE skills for highest effect to two, OH MY GOD IT"S WORTHLESS! IT REQUIRES A COMPLETELY NEW SKILL THAT I"VE NEVER USED BEFORE AND IT ACTUALLY GRANTS MANA REGAIN, STAMINA REGAIN, AND INCREASES MY MR FROM ITEMS! Shhsh. and don't whine about it being slightly more cramped to make a mystic, necromancy requires 2 skills too ya know, it's broken! it's secondary skill is used to see dead players, talk to them, and heal through corpses and isn't restricted by poison/mortal or spell casting times! But man I sure love how magerys second skill has no actual use other than passive bonuses to magery!
     
  4. frostbolt

    frostbolt Seasoned Veteran
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    if this is some sarcastic reply about the OT being a whiner or something i hope you realize that rising collosus went from 120 in all skills to 106, and every single spell that uses evaluate intelligence now does much much less damage for example hail storm which used to hit for 100 on the test center against kappa for example now hits for around 70-80

    this change didnt do anything except make mysticism a gimped version of magery. theres nothing now in mysticism that magery does not also give and in some cases better (except for like 2 spells spell plague and imbue) but thats why we do necro weaver right?..
     
  5. frostbolt

    frostbolt Seasoned Veteran
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    oh wait sorry that was my bad. my hailstorm test was screwed up cause i wasnt wearing the same amount of sdi on prodo/test i went back and checked my stats again and i just noticed this. its still around the same give or take a couple points of damage.

    but colossus did go down from 120-106 im sure about that
     
  6. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    I'm not a dev but I did stay at a best western early in the week. I'm still feeling the effects. In that light, I believe the answer to your question is because they don't actually play the game.

    Who was it that said throwing owns? Oh yea, it was Cal. You see, in the wild west there are no gargoyles. This is very confusing for Cal. When he hunts carebears he likes to imagine that he is Duke Nukem. Throwing & imbuing aren't very exciting to him. Because of this they had to be made so we wouldn't want to use them to usher in the new skill gunsmithing and marksmanship. *nods*

    Balls of steel!!
     
  7. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    I want my BFG9000!!!
     
  8. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    I am just thinking all that money could have been put towards something else...like existing problems. It seems a terrible waste to have 3/4 of a major expansion be considered useless.
     
  9. How do you know what the devs think and intend?

    And whats up with the 75%.

    So throwing stinks. Are you talking monsters or PvP?

    Argh stop pulling percentages out of your and if or and ...
     
  10. Gowron

    Gowron Guest

    There is an honest question in the OP, but it's surrounded by so much frustration and emotion that it reads as a rant.

    I'd be interested to see if it gets cleaned up a bit and sent to the Dev's via Ask the Dev section what the response would be.

    Don't have a gargoyle (yet), no desire for throwing, but I've seen enough feedback to believe that gargs are nerfed to hell and back. Unless, of course, you're talking imbuing, and then they're...FIERCE.
     
  11. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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  12. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    No response at all?
     
  13. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    I apologize, let us see if we can raise that comprehension rate a bit:


    "How do you know what the devs think and intend?:

    It is a statement of observation with unknown causes, thus the question.

    "So throwing stinks. Are you talking monsters or PvP?"

    I know a great deal of people in this game. Not a single one uses this terrible skill for either PvP or for PvM. Begging, as a skill, is more useful in either theater.

    "And whats up with the 75%....Argh stop pulling percentages out of your and if or and .."

    Ok, I am dumbfounded that this one need explaining but here goes...

    1. Gargoyles
    2. Throwing
    3. Imbuing
    4. Mysticism

    Ok...stay with me here. That is 4 items..right? Ok, 100(%) divided by 4 equals 25(%). Are you still with me? Ok, now 3 out of those 4 items have been made worthless. Now..let's take that 3 and multiply it by the 25% that each one is equal to. 3 x 5 = 15..so you put a 5 under the line..remember to carry the 1. Now 3 x 2 = 6, now remember to add the 1 that you carried over so 6 + 1 = 7. Now put that 7 under the line and hooray..you now have 75%. If you are still having trouble with this, I would be happy to try a different instruction method.


    We all hope I was able to broaden your mathematical horizons with that lesson.
     
  14. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Don't know the percentages but we both must agree throwing is a extremly horrible skill. In order to keep from incuring a hci penalty and damage penalty you have to be in the exact range against moving targets. With everybody already having maximum or almost maximum caps In there template for hci and damge this thing is just seen as a penalty. Add in to make sure you don't get the hci penalty you need to dedicate another 120 skill points which you wont use because well you trying to use trowing so why would you need swordsmenship or vice versa. Then using a shield you suffer more dci and hci penalty whiout having parry.
    Now after all that add gargoyles special abilitie to die quicker when there in danger which any body knows when you fighting a 500hp-100k creature you gonna get close to death many many times before you actually kill it.Don't even want to think pvp.
    Even thought there missing armor that can be wore by others that could be worked with but everything else they just have no chance. It was a epic fail from the beggining that one can see a mile away.
     
  15. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    I'm aware of this, but you're missing the big point. IT ONLY TAKES 2 SKILLS NOW. it was 80 last time with 2 skills. You people will whine about anything wont you? "OMG IT TAKES 1 LESS SKILL AND LOOSES A 14 POINTS IN SKILLZ SO I MUST WHINE BECAUSE I NEED TO HAVE EVERYTHING EASY"

    It takes 2 skills instead of 3, and we don't even know if that's intended or not. I see just reason for a MINOR nerf.
     
  16. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    5. Staining
    6. basket weaving
    7. SA dungeon
    8. Battle chickens

    Now it's less than 75%, and those were just what I could think of off the top of my head. And before you start, at least 2 of those are as important as the 3 new skills and race which would still prove the point.

    unsuccessful insult to math skillz is unsuccessful.
     
  17. Walkerboh77

    Walkerboh77 Guest

    a dev already addressed the RC issue in the publish thread....

    they said they will be correcting it...

    it's a known issue and the RC presumably will be put back at 120's with only 2 skills now


    so relax everyone
     
  18. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Am completely relax since he said something. Though I think they didn't notice or was gonna let it go thoorugh as is till we raise some hell lol. Guess we will never know.
     
  19. Walkerboh77

    Walkerboh77 Guest

    :) that's why the TC exists ...for us to QA the changes!
     
  20. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    They fixing it. Though if they didn't the minor nerf is actually would of being a major one as colossis is the reason people get mysticism in the first place. All Myst were mages anyway so it would of being a huge nerf as 120 skills would not make up for having a useless colossis. So there would be no need for players to keep myst when they could substitute it for taming and lore. But am glad thats behind us and they are fixing it.
     

  21. Stay with me Wiley

    Dungeons, quests, monster encounters, puzzles, housing and should I go on.

    Yes... you meant to say 75% of your 4 items. Not 75% of SA. But heck...

    Did you poll your great deal of people. The great deal of people I know dont care about throwing. Im not sure what great deal of people to trust.

    Your opinion is throwing sucks. And that the intent was to make it suck so. I think your logic flawed.

    How about saying this next time.

    Throwing needs some work. Its not worth having the skill. The game has good and bad parts for me. These are the areas I dont like.

    It works better Mr. Math.
     
  22. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    2 things, minor nerf of 14 skill points doesn't make it worthless, in fact, it's not even that much of a difference. And I said it might not even be on purpose, also, thanks for telling me what someone else also said, because apparently I cannot read.

    You were over reacting, man up to it. I just keep reading your post and I don't see one legit reason in there. 120-106 is NOT a "HUGE nerf that makes mysticism useless."
     
  23. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Don't come at me like that. 14 points across stats and skills is a big difference. What do you hunt ogres with them? It's a high end skill made to hunt high end monsters. Do you have a half finished character or something? Do you only pvp?
    We only use the best and finest not second rate characters. If theres a better character and mix of skill thats what will be used. If colossis was nerf enough to make necro/spellweaving/taming a better replacement for mysticism then it will make mysticism useless compare to them.
     
  24. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    I envision you snapping your fingers too...was you?
     
  25. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I removed that part didn't sound right lol.Being watching too many shows with my girl.
     
  26. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    You really into this whine aren't you? No, I have a 4x120 Samurai and a Tamer mage. My tamer sure as hell doesn't have a problem fighting peerlesses with untrained pets. And no, before you ask, it's usually a group less than 3, maybe two tammers and No, my pets don't die often. So you use the summon to pvp? So you're a gimp? I thought you were the finnest? Yes, I have pvped before I don't anymore because of lags and gimps, apparently like yourself. Again, it's one spell, that makes it's skills probably about the range of an uber earth elemental... for two skills as opposed to 3, do you not understand that? it WAS 3 x120 skills, now it's only 2. And it's only one spell. Are you really that thick headed? Removing a skill from it's requirement and SLIGHTLY lowering it's stats isn't that big of a deal. You were just whining because you can't cast your summon as a crutch for pvp. I understand that now.
     
  27. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Wow...all the wit of a stone and comprehension of one too. *applause*

    Since the conversation was, and is, about skills...care to show me where on my skill list "Dungeons, quests, monster encounters, puzzles, housing and should I go on" appears?? Funny thing son, I don't see any of them listed anywhere...anyone else see them??? *crickets*

    Stop being such a pompous dumbass. If you don't understand the problem, keep your mouth shut and maybe..just maybe... you will learn something.
     
  28. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Holy Christ..there are two of them. Reverse Darwinism seems to be alive and well today.

    See the above post. It seems to fully apply to you as well.
     
  29. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Im asking you if you only pvp as this is more relating to the PVM and a PVP player would not undestand. Using mysticism colossis as primary weapon and mage skills as secondary weapon.
    3x120 works just fine before. 2x works better. But the myst primary power is in the RC. If I want to heal I can use mage heals. If I want to cause direct damge i can use the mage spells.If I want to keep something at bay I can use ev if I want area damage I can use necro skills which all these does better in any situation. The only thing non of these can match myst is the RC making it the only reason to have it while the rest of the myst spells are ok but nothing to write home about or dedicate 240 points for. RC now last just long enough to be effective. if it lasted any shorter and was weaker it's effectiveness would not be enough to justify it's use.
     
  30. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    You need to go test this out before you post your ignorance. Go to TC and try to kill a renowed wyrm. It took many collossus' before the nerf. Try it and let me know how much FUN you had.
     
  31. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Before it also took 360 skill points, now it takes 240 skill points. Learn to count before you post your ignorance.
     
  32. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    You realize what you're saying implies a problem with mysticism and not what I've said. My point was, that I could see how things COULD have been changed. If all but that spell is worthless, then Mysticism needs a complete re-balance OUTSIDE of the damn summon.
     
  33. TheBlackCobra

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    In fairness, the title of the thread is "Honest question about 75% of the SA expansion," not "Honest question about 75% of the skills in the SA expansion"
     
  34. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    Mysticism is the bomb son. Don't know what game you're playing.
     
  35. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I would rather have a useful spell. Are you really this stupid? I dont give a damn how many points it takes they nerfed a spell into uselessness.

    May as well use an energy vortex. It only needs 240 points.

    Next you are going to tell me how wonderful throwing is?
     
  36. Hmm.
    TITLE Honest question about 75% of SA Expansion.

    Didnt you write that... 75% of SA expansion.

    Next line you gave us Gargs, imbuing throwing, myst... Are gargs a skill?

    This is from your other masterful jab: You wrote...

    Ok, I am dumbfounded that this one need explaining but here goes...

    1. Gargoyles
    2. Throwing
    3. Imbuing
    4. Mysticism


    Not my fault you can't represent your own ideas. You even numbered them. Did you mean 66% of SA skills 2,3, and 4 or do you want to include garging around as a skill. Just asking. Im not to bright.

    Nice flings of insults too. I suggest you spend less time trying to be clever and insulting people and more time representing your idea better when you write.

    Honest feedback. Well 75% honest feedback. There other stuff I cant post here.

    Dork. GO edit your original post.
     
  37. BINGO. I thought I was the only one with the brain of a rock.
     
  38. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    EV only needs 120 points, you miss the point entirely. You should probably take a nap now, sending personal attacks. The point was, I could see WHY the could do it. I never said they should, or that they did on purpose. But, that apparently is too complex a thought for you to comprehend.

    A slight nerf doesn't make a spell worthless. Now, if you're saying that the only good thing about Mysticism is THAT spell, like I said earlier, that's a different debate entirely.

    Edit: Ahh. I re-read your origional post, and I see what you want.

    Easy button that you can use on everything. You don't want to do any thought yourself on "Hmmm, maybe THIS summon might not work well against this creature so I'll use ANOTHER." Instead you want to cast the spell on everything that moves, come back after you get a coffee and have an artifact, gold, imbuing ings and a chopper just waiting for you so you can fly to your island home, after all, that's what you want next, right?
     
  39. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    UO has gone downhill so far, so fast..

    play a freeshard and experience how awesome the game used to be

    and gargoyles look dumb
     
  40. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    I played a free shard once, had unique rule sets, hell you'd say it was a dif game. The owner made a new server with Fel rules everywhere, but access to everywhere in ML. It was actually very fun, but then he decided to start being creative, increased skill cap, was fun, you could be whatever you wanted, was balanced, you never had an obscene advantage over anyone else, surprisingly. Then he removed the FC/FCR cap for magery and I quit after I fought him in a champ spawn.

    Moral of the story? "UO falling so far, so fast" can happen on player shards too.
     
  41. Angel121

    Angel121 Guest

    Ding ding ding.

    After 3 Knockdown's we have a winner!

    RavenWinterHawk

    "RavenWinterHawk, do you have anything to say to your fan's?
    Are you behind the campaign to make people read before slamming their faces on a keyboard in an attempt to nerdrage?
    Are you the mastermind behind the charity *Teach Posters how to read and write legibly* and the offshoot book *Learning to Spell is not a Sin*"

    Ps I am a fan so I want to know
     
  42. [​IMG]

    Stop him! He's written a post he has to back track on with scissors and hand cream!
     
  43. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I think the developers were afraid of making gargoyles overpowered but they also wanted to make them very different from humans and elves. Basically they did not want them to be humans that can fly. However it's very hard to integrate something like that when players are used to playing at high levels of skills + equipment+playstyle. I had a gargoyle mystic that had to give up max spell damage, max luck, and max mana regen and lots of other perks. Sure I could fly, but flying wasn't all that great. Still had a hard time going through doors, gates, banking, etc. Very few of the gargoyle only artifacts could compensate for the elf/human ones and I wasn't gaining any additional content by being a gargoyle. I thought that over time, some improvements would be made for the gargoyle experience but there hasn't been much progress that I have seen. So that character is no longer a gargoyle. That being said, the expansion has brought a lot of great things such as imbuing, new staining system, new puzzles, new stealables, etc.
     
  44. I was just giving honest input with my natural bad writing and poor spelling.
    I don't mind being called an idiot or worse as long as I am 20% at fault.

    I just didnt see it here. Plus I was bored. So I apologize for stirring the pot.

    Back to reality and life.
     
  45. Angel121

    Angel121 Guest

    I think you got me wrong, I was advocating your post was better than the OP.

    I was doing a silly fanboy post style thingy whatsit.

    You sir where in the right.

    I just put some fun in my post because just putting in there "QFT" or "Read this for win" or some such thing would be booooring.