1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Honesty, Spirituality, Humility

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Faith, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. Faith

    Faith Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'd be interested in seeing what they come up with next for the virtues! Brings on the 3 remaining virtues!!

    What do you guys think each of them should do?
     
  2. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    I have been screaming and yelling about this for EIGHT YEARS!!! They will not answer, they will not finish, they will not fix, and they will not even talk about. Yes it has been eight years since they have done anything with the virtues. I was hoping that with the new event cycle "Warriors of Destiny" that they would have to finish them off so combat the three anti-principle shadowlords. But nothing.

    They wont even say, "We will look into it." I have posted the old 'in development' sections for the three missing virtues to start conversation, but still nothing.

    Frankly, I wish they would just toss something together to just get it started.

    I have been logging on once per week to keep the five finished virtues fully colored and fully knighted hoping that someday they will finish it off.

    Maybe we should start a poll?
     
  3. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    164
    They should start by completely redoing all of the current virtues so that they make any sense at all.
     
  4. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    I agree, the available virtues are raised in a strange way.
    Is it compassion to make 5 guys travel by day for 500gc and ignore the others?
    Is it valorous to smash low level champion spawn?
    Is it a sacrifice to get rid of fame nowadays?
    Is it just to kill reds?
    Is it honorable to just kill mobs?
     
  5. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    I would rather see them put in the missing three virtues first. Even if they are dumb or don't make sense.

    Then we could talk about fixing the ones that don't make sense.

    It's been EIGHT YEARS and they never finished it.

    Finish first. Fix second.
     
  6. ki-rin

    ki-rin Guest

    me too. been waiting forever for the virtues to be complete.. :sleep2:
     
  7. Sunrise

    Sunrise Guest



    LoL. Ok we want to add in thy other three. Not fixed thy current ones. LoL. That could take generations to fix :D
     
  8. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    DEFINATELY! Its extremely just to kill reds, and unless you are cheating to raise justice, there is nothing wrong with how justice is raised.

    I personally enjoy killing certain reds as much as possible. Some of them just annoy me to no end, so I gain a great deal of enjoyment from watching them go ooOoo. Its even better that I'm killing them on an "oped" tamer.
     
  9. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    lol
    What's an "oped" tamer? A guardzone hugger? :)
     
  10. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    689
    from what I remember of the remaining three virtues when they were first talking about what to do with them, I think spirituality was linked in with gaining in the other virtues gained you in spirituality and you had to do something at the spirituality shrine too - one of the other 2 had something to do with leading "(young)" players around and showing them how to do things and I don't remember what the other one was

    the one thing i do remember for sure and was really looking forward to all this time is that when you lit up all 8 virtues at knight, you got a really cool title in front of your character's name so instead of saying "Lord <name>", your title would be "Virtuous Lord <name>"

    I always wanted to be a Virtuous Lord ... but alas ... that dream has been stolen from me by 8 years of lazy developers ... (super lazy)
     
  11. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    From EIGHT YEARS ago, the first set was the original idea, and the second set was 'in development' section for about one year before it was removed:

    Honesty: When purchasing goods from blind merchants the player is required to enter the amount they actually wish to pay. Although the player has the option of paying less than the merchant has asked for, this will mark the player as dishonest. Stealing gold from chests owned by others will also penalize the player.

    Spirituality:
    Meditating at shrines and achieving enlightenment in the other virtues enhances the player's spirituality.

    Humility: The player demonstrates their humility during conversations. A boastful response to a question results in a penalty.


    Honesty is part of a philosophy within Ultima Online known as the Virtues, and is one of eight pursuits within the Virtue System

    The Virtue of Honesty has been described thusly:
    "Honesty is scrupulous respect for truth - the willingness never to deceive oneself or another."
    Players are able to pursue the Virtue of Honesty by confessing to their sins at a shrine.

    Gaining Honesty:
    Characters are able to gain points in Honesty by speaking a mantra at a shrine.
    Speak the mantra "Forgive my sins, for I have strayed from the path of Virtue".
    You will lose Fame for every mongbat death you have upon your conscience, but you are cleansed of those kills.
    Points in Honesty may be earned up to two times in a given day.
    Virtuous Title & Abilities: When a character has achieved any number of Honesty points, he is considered to have achieved a certain step on the path of Honesty.
    When a player moves his cursor over the Honesty symbol, a title are displayed, indicating the step currently achieved in Honesty for that character.
    First step: Seeker of Honesty
    Second step: Follower of Honesty
    Third step: Knight of Honesty
    Players who progress any number of steps on the path of Honesty, but do not continue to actively pursue it, may discover that this Virtuous title reduces in steps over time.
    Gaining steps in Honesty will make NPCs trust that player more.
    Items bought at shops are offered at a discount to more honest players..
    First step: 20% discount.
    Second step: 35% discount.
    Third step: 50% discount.
    This ability is passive, and is not limited to a certain number of purchases.
    Dishonest Acts: There are certain actions that are considered dishonest. Performing these actions will reduce the amount of Honesty a character has to some degree. These activities include:
    Using the Stealing skill.
    Casting the False Coin spell.


    Spirituality is part of a philosophy within Ultima Online known as the Virtues, and is one of eight pursuits within the Virtue system

    The Virtue of Spirituality has been described as:
    "Spirituality is the concern with one's inner being and how one deals with Truth, Love, and Courage."
    Pursuit of Spirituality will reward players with spiritual stability.

    Spirituality and the Cleansing of the Dead: Any character that slays a monster will be able to demonstrate their pursuit of Spirituality by laying the monster to rest.
    Upon slaying a related monster, players are able to sacrifice their reputation to defeat the monster in the following manner:
    Open up the Virtue gump.
    Double-click the Sacrifice (teardrop) symbol
    Target the monster
    The following is a list of monsters which may be redeemed with the sacrifice of one’s Reputation:
    Lich
    Enslaved Gargoyle
    Gargoyle Enforcer
    (Regular) Demon
    Succubus
    Evil Mage
    You cannot lay a monster to rest if:
    You did not kill it.
    You have looted it, carved it up, or drained it with Spirit Speak.
    You are dead.
    Attempts to lay irredeemable monsters to rest will have no effect.
    Once a monster is laid to rest, the following will occur:
    The monster's trapped soul (or in the case of daemons, the souls of those they have consumed) is released, ascending into the heavens.
    The monster's corpse is absorbed into the soil.
    The character will gain a point of Spirituality, if their gains that day are less than 2.
    A given character can gain Spirituality only twice per 24 hour period, but monsters can be laid to rest any amount of times.

    Virtuous Title & Abilities: When a character has achieved any number of Spirituality points, he is considered to have achieved a certain step on the path of Spirituality.
    When a player moves his cursor over the Spirituality symbol, a title will be displayed, indicating the step currently achieved in Spirituality for that character.
    First step: Seeker of Spirituality
    Second step: Follower of Spirituality
    Third step: Knight of Spirituality
    Players who progress any number of steps on the path of Spirituality, but do not continue to actively pursue it, may discover that this Virtuous title reduces in steps over time.
    Gaining steps in Spirituality will grant a character the ability to improve the spiritual results when resurrecting characters other than himself.
    Characters resurrected in this manner will return to life with a greater amount of mana than which they would normally resurrect.
    First step: Resurrected character returns to life with 20% of their maximum Mana.
    Second step: Resurrected character returns to life with 40% of their maximum Mana.
    Third step: Resurrected character returns to life with 80% of their maximum Mana.
    This ability may be used as often as the player wishes.
    Note: you must have the ability to resurrect through the use of spells or Healing skill in order to benefit from the use of this Virtue.

    The Virtue of Humility [In Development]
    Humility is part of a philosophy within Ultima Online known as the Virtues, and is one of eight pursuits within the upcoming Virtue system.

    The Virtue of Humility has been described as:
    “Perceiving one’s place in the world, not according to one’s own accomplishments, but according to the intrinsic value of all individuals.”
    Pursuit of Humility will be designed to encourage veteran players to help new players, in that they will specifically advance in this Virtue by helping [young] players.

    Squire System: Veteran players will be able to invite [young] players to become their squires.
    A veteran player can ask a [young] player to be his/her squire by:
    Opening up the Virtue gump.
    Double-clicking the Humility symbol (the shepherd’s crook).
    Targeting the [young] player.
    [Added 051101] If the [young] character is not available to be a squire:
    The veteran player receives a message telling him that the young player is not available.
    The young player does not get any message or additional gumps.
    [Added 051101] If the [young] character is available to be a squire:
    The [young] player receives a gump telling them that a veteran has asked them to be a squire, and they are asked if they want to learn more. This gump has three buttons:
    “Yes” — creates a new gump with more information and the name of the character who asked them to be a squire.
    “No” — declines the invitation.
    The veteran character is sent a message letting him know the invitation was declined.
    The veteran character cannot ask that new player again for 5 minutes.
    If the veteran character tries to ask the young player again before the 5 minutes are up, the veteran will receive a message that he must wait. The young player does not get a gump or message.
    “No — make me unavailable to be a squire” — makes the young character unavailable for the remainder of their time online.
    If the [young] player accepts the invitation to become a squire, a second gump appears. This will have more information about the Virtue of Humility, the veteran character’s name, and three buttons.
    “Yes” —creates the partnership between the two characters.
    A message is sent to the veteran confirming the acceptance.
    The [young] character’s name will hue as light blue, letting other players know he is no longer available as a squire, since the [young] character already has a sponsor.
    “No” — declines the invitation.
    The veteran character is sent a message letting him know the invitation was declined.
    The veteran character cannot ask that new player again for 5 minutes.
    If the veteran character tries to ask the young player again before the 5 minutes are up, the veteran will receive a message that the young player is not available. The young player does not get a gump or message.
    “No — make me unavailable to be a squire” — makes the young character unavailable for the remainder of their time online.
    Once the [young] player has accepted, the veteran character becomes the [young] player’s sponsor.
    If another veteran tries to invite that young to be a squire the veteran will be told that the young player is not available and the young player will not receive any gumps or messages.
    [Removed 051101] Once invited, the [young] player will receive a special invitation message. The [young] player can accept the invitation by:
    Opening up the Virtue gump.
    Double-clicking the Humility symbol (the shepherd’s crook).
    Target the veteran character.
    [Removed 051101] If the [young] player accepts this invitation…
    …and does not have a current sponsor, he will become the squire to the veteran character.
    …and already has a current sponsor, he will receive a gump, stating: “You are a squire to another player. If you accept this new invitation you will no longer be a squire to [current sponsor’s name].”
    Whenever a [young] character gains skill points in the following skills while within a squire-sponsor relationship, the sponsor may gain points in Humility:
    Alchemy
    Animal Taming
    Archery
    Blacksmithy
    Bowcraft/Fletching
    Carpentry
    Cartography
    Cooking
    Fencing
    Fishing
    Healing
    Inscription
    Lockpicking
    Mace Fighting
    Magery
    Mining
    [Removed 051101] Musicianship
    Provocation
    Stealing
    Swordsmanship
    Tailoring
    Tinkering
    Veterinary
    [Added 051101] A new gump will appear to the [young] player 10 minutes after accepting to become a squire. This gump will ask them if they are enjoying their time, and has two response buttons:
    “Continue” — pressing this option will allow the sponsor-squire relationship to continue without interference, and this same gump will appear 20 minutes later.
    “Stop” —upon pressing this response button, three things will happen:
    The [young] player will be teleported to Haven.
    The veteran receives a message that the tie has been broken.
    The sponsor-squire relationship ends.
    [Added 051101] When either character logs out, the sponsor/squire partnership ceases to exist.
    If the veteran character logs out but the [young] player does not, that [young] player will be given a gump telling them that they are no longer a squire ,and ask them if they want to go back to Haven. There will be 2 response buttons:
    “No” — leaves them where they are.
    “Yes” — sends them to Haven.
    [Added 051101] The veteran player can end the sponsor-squire relationship at any time, by the following steps:
    Opening the Virtue gump.
    Pressing the Humility symbol.
    Targeting himself.
    When the relationship is ended in this way, the new player will be given a notice and the option to go to Haven.
    There are certain situations which will affect a sponsor’s gaining of new squires and/or Humility points:
    [Added 051101] Veteran characters will not be able to ask [young] players to become squires while in Haven.
    In order for the sponsor to gain in Humility, he must remain close to the [young] character as that [young] character gains skill.
    Skill points gained through the use of a training dummy will not count toward possible Humility increases.
    Skill points gained by paying for training from NPCs will not count toward possible Humility increases.
    [Young] characters will not gain Humility points.
    The sponsor cannot gain Humility points while dead.
    [Added 051101] A feedback gump will be part of the Humility system.
    The [young] player will receive this gump, asking them to rate their experience as a squire, when:
    The [young] player decides to break the tie,
    The veteran player logs off or breaks the tie,
    The [young] player’s account (who was a squire at any time) loses it’s [young] status.
    The following response will be available on this gump, and these will be tracked by OSI to assist in modifying the system as necessary:
    “I benefited a great deal from being a squire.”
    “I got some benefit from being a squire.”
    “I benefited very little from being a squire.”
    “Being a squire hurt my experience in UO.”
    “I am not new to UO. This is a second account.”
    Virtuous Title & Abilities: When a character has achieved any number of Humility points, he is considered to have achieved a certain step on the path of Humility.
    When a player moves his cursor over the Humility symbol, a title will be displayed, indicating the step currently achieved in Humility for that character.
    First step: Seeker of Humility
    Second step: Follower of Humility
    [Added 051101] Third step: Knight of Humility
    [Removed 051101] Third step: Guardian of Humility
    Players who progress any number of steps on the path of Humility, but do not continue to actively pursue it, may discover that this Virtuous title reduces in steps over time.
    Gaining steps in Humility will grant a character some special abilities. Players will be able to access these abilities by clicking the Humility symbol on their own Virtue gump.
    [Added 051101] First step: +5 Hit Points, +5 Mana, +5 Stamina
    [Added 051101] Second step: +10 Hit Points, +10 Mana, +10 Stamina
    [Added 051101] Third step: +20 Hit Points, +20 Mana, +20 Stamina
    [Removed 051101] First step: +10 Hit Points, +10 Mana, +10 Stamina
    [Removed 051101] Second step: +20 Hit Points, +20 Mana, +20 Stamina
    [Removed 051101] Third step: +30 Hit Points, +30 Mana, +30 Stamina
     
  12. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
     
  13. Samaira

    Samaira Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,116
    Likes Received:
    41
    Damn, Humility would be next-to-impossible to gain in today's UO, and beyond impossible to keep from decaying completely. While I like the idea as set out above, I think it would need a lot of tweaking. Perhaps instead of [young] players, just new chars with low skills? I know, I know, open to abuse, but raise your hand if you've never been part of a Justice gaining session with a friend/guildie, reskilling their red in a house.

    Also have a small issue with the loss of Fame in order to gain Virtue points. Sacrifice already does this, throw another Virtue into the mix and occasional players like myself would just have enough time to raise one Virtue to Knight before the other decayed, leading to more pointless hours of Fame farming when I'd much rather be doing something else. I'd like to see (and have wanted for a while) the Virtue decay rate changed to drop over in-game time, rather than real world time.

    *shrugs* just my 2gp. I'd love to see all the virtues live. Just don't fancy it being another constant grind just to keep them up once you're Knight.
     
  14. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Actually, I thought the way it was written that you sacrificed fame once and gained in both virtues.

    But it doesn't really matter. I posted the old stuff because someone asked about it. They can make the virtues work however they want, I just want to see them finished!!!
     
  15. Faith

    Faith Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hard to read :< Looks like a big bunch of text !
     
  16. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    The first set was from U4-5 and will not work here. The second set was from UO in development.

    Maybe we could come up with something that would work well.

    Spirituality: You can say the mantra at each shrine once per day, when you hit eight you get a dot.
    Reward: One extra self-ress for first title. Two extra for Knight.

    Thoughts? How about Honesty and Humility (can't count on youngs...)
     
  17. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    For Humilty, you could gains points/dots by walking on foot with nothing by a humity cloak over time.

    Reward: Double-click gump target self and become invisible for 60 seconds.

    Any thoughts? Other ideas?
     
  18. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Under the town hall notes was posted that if we give them good ideas for the last three virtues, they would put them in.

    If we build it, we will come.

    Another idea for humility would be to use part of the humility cloak system. Finish it once, get the shield/cloak, from then on you visit the seven people each day to get points.

    Any thoughts? Still need Honesty too.
     
  19. Ozymandies

    Ozymandies Guest

    There are still two character types that do not have virtue systems: crafters and rogues.

    So I would think:

    Humility: crafters
    Honesty: rogues

    Humility: get points for doing Heartwood quests and turning in BoDs. Limit 5 per day (like compassion) to limit scripting. At certain levels of Humility you can choose your next BoD or reward.

    Honesty: involve the detectives, too. Some rare items you can either keep, turn-in for rewards, or turn-in for Honesty points. The pay-off: thief protection. You could then implement getting the insurance money for stealing insured items, since folks could get some sort of protection. Of course, reds get no benefit from the virtues.

    Lastly, Spirituality is the sum of the other virtues. No need to implement a specific quest (although you could, just easier not to). The pay-off: slower decay of virtue points.

    Just some thoughts,

    OZ
     
  20. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Well, for Honesty, they could use that old design (mantra, shrines, mongbat deaths...) or design a new quest system where you get a drop menu of answers and can gain twice per day.

    Anyone else have thoughts on this?
     
  21. Corwin

    Corwin Guest

    Now that all the mass bannings are over and all the "I was banned for no good reason" posts are almost over...

    Can we get back to trying to figure out a way to get these last three missing virtues in the game and working?

    I like what I see so far, but does anyone have anything else? Or disagree?