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Houses in Guard Zones

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Draconi, Sep 11, 2008.

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  1. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Hello all!

    Publish 55 shipped with a bug that dropped guard zones in towns across Britannia.

    This also dropped restrictions on placing houses, and several reports have come in of people placing new houses within towns. We have since published an update to fix the town zones.

    Our stance on whether these houses will be allowed to remain is an unequivocal "No." If you placed a house in a guard zone, you should remove it immediately before we remove it for you.

    (This will not affect grandfathered houses that have already been there for years)

    Additional points:
    • We would never, ever, do something as life-altering as a planned drop of guard zones around towns, without including that information in the publish notes.
    • We would NEVER open up house placement inside towns without writing that in big, bold letters, in the publish notes.
    • That being said, it was obviously a bug, and exploiting a bug is a direct violation of our ToS.
    • To everyone who claims they could have been scammed/will be scammed by legitimate offers of old houses, I remind you that you *can* check Grandfathered status if you are a friend to the house. If you are ever buying a house in the future (not these, do not buy these), I highly recommend you require the owner to friend you beforehand, so you can check the grandfather/modern status, number of visits the house has had, etc. You'll find this on the "Information" page of the house sign.

    Thanks!
    -Draconi

    P.S. The guard zone changes are slated for Publish 56, and will include all the other changes (that didn't slip through accidentally) for the war.
     
  2. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Will publish 56 fix it so they can't be placed when the changes go on though?
     
  3. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest


    There ya go. Inconsistency. I feel bad for those players that lose gold buying houses that aren't grandfathered in and allowed to be in guardzone. Another example of players being punished for not scouring every forum for the game they play.
     
  4. AH quick word.

    But I sware my newly purchased 18x18 on the farm field has been there for 4 years.

    Hopefully, not to many lost out. I doubt much was sold if any.

    But feel bad for those that just condemned their homes for one in guardzone that will be removed.
     
  5. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    You bet. In fact, the system was already in place to prevent that. It's just that when we split 55 and 56 a small section of changes (without the no house place zones) snuck through.
     
  6. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Yes.. feel terrible for those people who were obviously scattering to grab land they know they're not supposed to have normally without thinking for a second that just maybe it was unintended and purposefully placed before the fix was put in to make it impossible again, or those greedy enough to buy from players who had done so thinking they were getting an amazing rare buy without giving a second thought to the possible consequences.

    Of course, i'm sure they'll all still come here to whine about it.
     
  7. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    I agree. This should be in the patch message page, as should all major bugs.

    This bug opens up plenty of people to scamming. They shouldn't have to check external web pages to find out about it.
     
  8. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Yes, its always greed and not just lack of knowledge. Since every player in the game knows every house on every shard that is 'grandfathered'. Of course they do. Why would they feel that they have the right to whine about such a clear issue of greed?
     
  9. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Exactly. As usual, those that go out of their way to learn every trick in the book are able to get over on those that just want to enjoy the game and foolishly expect that the developers of the game will keep them informed about things that could damage that enjoyment.
     
  10. I agree 75%
    There are 25% of people that dont come here and get word by whats happening in game.

    Some change a while back that was legit let the houses get close the the moongates. The one near atlantic brit gate for example. LEGIT.

    Of course Im making up the stats but its the same point. If it werent for reading here, I would have lost out big time on many things over the years.
     
  11. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Purposefully doing something you're not supposed to be able to do to have a house like almost nobody else would have ISN'T greed? And you don't have to know about grandfathered houses to be able realize a house has suddenly appeared where there wasn't one before.
     
  12. THATS a great idea. Should be implemented but its not full proof.


    My login for UO was hijacked by ASK.com. I can figure out how to fix it.

    So I dont get a login screen with info. Just advertisments.
     
  13. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    Er, actually, when I double click or mouse over a random house sign I don't see anything about it's age.
     
  14. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Tried spyware removal tools? Also, a tool called "hijackthis" could remove the startup entry causing it, but takes a bit more skill so you don't accidentally delete something you shouldn't.
     
  15. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Because every player has been here for years andyears and has mapped out every house in every city on every shard. Indeed!
     
  16. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    And that would be why I edited my post when I realized that myself, before you responded.

    And of COURSE those players that HAVEN'T been around for years and years and years would be able to afford the insane prices scammers would be charging for such buildings. IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE NOW! YOU HAVE OPENED MY EYES!
     
  17. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    Try this.

    Mind you, you aren't missing much.
     
  18. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    This should be a blatantly obvious bug. Hard to feel sorry for anyone placing in a town. I do agree though that the login screen needs to be updated regularly.
     
  19. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I myself, as a rule of thumb, don’t make big purchases or deals right after a publish just for this reason. Sometimes mistakes happen that can’t be fixed. Live and learn.
     
  20. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    You obviously dont play UO. A game that allows players to buy things like, oh, I don't know, gold? So they can sign up for the game and before they even train one skill they can have 100's of millions of gold to buy things like, I don't know, houses maybe? Yes, it does make sense. Glad your eyes are finally opened.
     
  21. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    SO.. you're expecting me to feel pity for someone who bought their way into a game rather than play and do their best to come to understand how the world works, just to save time, and got burned for it? That's like someone asking you to pity them because they erased their saved data on a game cart because they used a bad cheat device code.
     
  22. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I don't think anyone is supporting those players that placed in the guardzones. After all, they are even being given chance to drop the house themselves and get back every penny they put into it.

    Those that bought them not knowing they weren't grandfathered like the many others found in guardzones are another story. They probably paid more than the house will get them if they drop it. And that loss will not be made up for by EA. Those are the ones that really suffer because of EA's inconsitency on things like this.
     
  23. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    You honestly believe that a player can't earn a million or so gold within a few months of playing to be able to buy a house? Really? You are being serious here? Say, for example, I bought an advanced tamer. I could make a fair amount of money and save it all. Then, I see an 18x18 for sale in a town that I don't really visit often. So, I spend a few million on this house. Now, since I don't scour every board on every fan page, I don't know that somehouses in guardzones are legal and some aren't. I can't tell from just the sign, that would make too much sense.

    Now, I lose that house AND the millions I paid for it. That's fair to you? Honestly?
     
  24. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I know I am tired today and my head really hurts, but I am having a hard time figuring out what you mean by EA's inconsistency on things like this.:confused:
     
  25. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    First, the price Raven gave elsewhere was 55mil, not "a million or so", and I doubt anyone doing such a scam would charge any less. Second, someone that's been around long enough to do that on their own (even if for just 'a few months') would be an established player that should know better than to make such a purchase without thinking. And the circle is complete.
     
  26. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    I agree that it isn't fair, but how CAN EA make up for it?

    I mean, sure, they can at least publicise the problem (granted it's on UOHerald now but in my book it needs to be mentioned IN GAME - I mean, the patch page doesn't even link to the news page on UOHerald, it's a joke), but I'm not sure it's possible for them to track back money lost and return it to the rightful owners.

    Assuming anyone's been duped thus far.

    Mind you, I reckon those who placed new houses, therefore condemning their old ones, should at least have that condemned status removed. I mean, given that OSI has moved house zones around before and all that. Not everyone would've known what they were getting themselves into.

    Even now I'm sure some poor schmuck is leading pack horses towards "greener pastures"...
     
  27. Sebrina

    Sebrina Guest

    Thanks for the timely message on this Draconi. By the way did anyone pay attention to the last three words. Well, we knew it was coming...Only a matter of time, but there it is in clear type again. So beaf-up your characters and get ready, "for the war."
     
  28. Tiamat

    Tiamat Guest

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

    If you're rich enough to buy a house in a guard zone, you should be careful enough with those riches that you'd make sure you know what you're getting into when making ANY big purchase in the first place. If you aren't, then too bad for you. Next time learn to be careful when dealing with large amounts of money.
     
  29. UltimatePower

    UltimatePower Lore Keeper
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    What i would like to know is why publish's are only on origin for one day, before publishing them to all shards. Surely it would be best to leave it on there for at least a few days before letting all these bugs onto all the shards.

    So completely removing guard zones, got past QA and all the players on Origin. LOL Great

    That gives up lots of hope :lick:
     
  30. I was saying the same thing the day before it was published to all of the shards.
     
  31. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    If you gave it a longer run on Test Center you probably would have noticed this because people are always trying to place houses close to towns. I was wondering why Pub 55 was rushed onto production shards so quickly.
     
  32. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Just put him on ignore, it's what I did.

    -Galen's player
     
  33. RedRum

    RedRum Sage
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    Did you all NOT pay attention to this? I saw that the guard zone changes are for "THE WAR and I could CARE LESS about someone that is silly enough to buy a house that wasn't there the day before. I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE WAR!:gun: This war must be taking place in towns, due to the guards zones being down. Looking forward to another event in the comming days.
     
  34. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    :lol: Okay that should help, thanks!
     
  35. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Me too!!! However, I really don't want it to destroy another city. I'm still sad each time I visit Magencia. It was such a beautiful city!
     
  36. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    Hail: What about Moonglow? There are more than 1 house there, not grandfathered, that are in guard zones? And at the town hall in Ca. They did say there were going to open up other area's for housing. This message needs to be on the main log in page.
     
  37. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    When the guard zones around Yew were reformed during the Orc Scenario, houses were allowed to be placed closer to town.

    I don't understand why this couldn't have been announced yesterday. I wouldn't have bothered placing or helping lots of people get their new houses then. Now we have dozens of people stuck with condemned houses that have to figure out how what to do with them..
     
  38. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Apparently this is not true because the Keep I placed is gone.
     
  39. So is this fixed or not, cause I have a spot I want to place and I'm not sure if it's in town or not. Can I place without fear of losing my home or should i wait until the next publish?
     
  40. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    Random, but this needs to get in front of more eyes:

    Draconi, are you aware of what a mess your billing and token purches webpages are? Me and lots of other people are just categorically denied from buying tokens from EA.

    Also, no sympathy for house placers. Come on, you're not day one newbs, you should have seen the deletion coming. You were just gambling that the devs would let you keep them and these new houses would be super valuable. Gambled and lost.
     
  41. Not random just off-topic. :scholar:
     
  42. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Who do we submit a gold refund request to for the houses that have been deleted?
     
  43. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    You are kidding, right? You have played long enough to know better than to place a house RIGHT after a publish in a guard zone. You really can't plead ignorance.
     
  44. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    There are houses that have been in guardzones for years. They are considered grandfathered in and are 'legal' now.

    There are houses recently placed in guardzones. They are considered illegal and will be dropped.

    Houses in guardzones? Legal or illegal? Look at a house in a guardzone and tell me how you can tell if it is the 'grandfathered' 'legal' variety or the 'illegal' variety.

    Defintion of inconsistency

    "the quality of being inconsistent and lacking a harmonious uniformity among things or parts"

    Having houses that are in guardzones and legal and others that are in guardzones but are illegal with no clear way to tell the difference=inconsistency.

    Sure, EA or their supporters will pop up and say "But those houses have been there for years". Yes, they have. And, if EA didn't delete the new house the day after they were places, odds are that they would be there for years as well.

    Everyone gets that people that placed houses in guardzones were taking advantage of a bug allowing them to do so. However, not all players spend all their time on forums like this and don't know that the house they just bought is going to be dropped and cause them to lose all they paid for it. Those same players haven't mapped out every house in every guardzone on every facet of every shard as you guys apparently have.

    I know I have been here for years and I wouldn't know a house placed today versus a house placed years ago in certain guardzones. I don't spend a lot of time in certain towns so its justnot something I have memorized. Now, someone decides to sell their house because they are leaving the game and someone sells a house that was just placed illegally. How do you know one from the other? Short answer, you don't. And those players are the ones that suffer for this inconsistency.
     
  45. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Just so I am not confused, you are talking about someone buying a house in guardzone, correct? Not someone placing one?

    Someone buying one then I will somewhat agree with you, it would be hard, if not impossible, to tell if it was legal or not. Then they are simply guilty of stupidity. It would be stupid to buy a house in a guard zone the day AFTER a publish. Anyone should know better than that.

    If you are talking about someone placing a house, then it doesn't matter because THEY KNEW when they placed one yesterday that the house they were placing was illegal and NOT grandfathered in. *shrugs*
     
  46. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Yes. Those that placed houses I have no sympathy for. Those that bought them out of innocent ignorance I do. Not everyone follows the 'don't do anything the day after a publish' philosophy. Sure, they should. But some people actually assume that things like this would be worked out by either unit testing, QA or open testing. Silly people, I agree.

    But those same people also rely on the people that make the game to communicate to them that things are happening. Again, silly to expect the devs to actually be on top of communication when the only people that will suffer from this really are those that bought these homes from others. The placers don't suffer at all. They can just drop the house themselves and get back every gold piece they spent on it. You tell me honestly that that is fair.
     
  47. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    As I tell my kids and grandkids, no one ever told you life was going to be fair. UO isn't either. As someone posted in this or another thread, I can't imagine anyone who had the kind of gold to buy one of those illegal houses beging a newbie. In other words, they should have known better.

    Maybe what needs to happen is there needs to be more stringent rules about trading a house. Maybe you need to have owned a house at least 24 hours before you can trade it. That might solve this kind of problem. But then again someone would complain about that. So what it boils down to is NEVER is EVERYONE going to be happy. Use a little common sense and possibly you can avoid some unpleasantries in UO.
     
  48. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I am far from a newbie and I don't know every house in every guardzone on every facet on severy shard. I guess everyone that doesn't is a newbie in your book. I think its more that they just haven't gone from town to town memorizing every house.

    A note on the log in window of UO stating that houses placed recently in guard zones are going to be dropped could have helped. Since they knew about it early on but didn't really say anything about it till the boards lit up with discussions of it.

    A note on the houses in guardzones stating that they are 'grandfathered' so that players that don't have them all memorized might know if they should buy the house or not could have helped.

    One dev member, one QA member or one TC 'tester' trying to place a house in guardzones before a publish designed to REMOVE GUARDZONES could have helped.

    Are any of those really too much to ask from EA? I don't think so. Does requesting any of those things equal trying to please everyone all the time? I don't think so.

    I have spent a few years in the development field as well as the QA field myself. I know that you can't test every contingency on every release. However, you do need to try to test things directly related to that release. Testing house placement in guardzones during a release including the removal of guardzones seems like a no brainer.
     
  49. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    P.P.S.

    Dear friends at 2channel who may be translating this. In response to Thread 1224:
    • Post 763: Yes, I'm male. The "wa" after my sentences confuses and frightens me. o_O
    • Post 771: Sou desu ne.
     
  50. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    Sou desu ka! :p
     
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