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How about we cut the candy ^*& BS and give EMs some POWER to deal with losers!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by weins201, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Atl just had an EM stop an event because "PLAYERS" refused to do what he asked. Simply for them to stay off a roof so he could conduct the start of the event.

    Lets geuve EMs the power to just REMOVE these people, and block account for 2 hours so these pathetic players cannot interupt.

    This goes for ANYONE bad mouthing EMs/GMs/DEVs at events also.

    If you cannot play nice dont come, if al you want to do is *****, complain, grief go sit at yew gate on a porch and whine.

    Seriously some of you who play need to have some sense BEATEN into you.

    It is pathetic that player are allowed to get away with these types of actions, If you had caused this at a real concert or other type of event you would be in jail or gotten te crap beat out of you by the crowd.

    GTFU
     
  2. Blood Ghoul

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    I have to agree. we had an event last week and some dudes keep interupting saying how they wanted to date the EM and things they would do to her. I found it crazy the EM's allowed that to continue but I always thought they had some power to deal with the idiots. But we always deal with the "Tards from other Shards" on Origin during our events.

    BG
     
  3. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    I agree! Give them some way of dealing with stupid.

    It is such a turn off for me that I and many of my friends do not even bother with events do to the stupid drama and annoying people
     
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  4. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Oh I couldn't agree more. This problem is CONSTANT on GL's. It's so annoying dozens of folk who would be interested in EM events QUIT coming to them because they are tired of all the BS and smack talk and all that goes on it's dang near impossible to figure out what the EM's are trying to say or do. I think if it weren't for the RP aspect of the events I would have quit trying to do them ages ago myself. But I keep trying to support the EM's. Though it's getting more and more frustrating every week.

    You can always bet at each event there is at LEAST one if not two or three losers who are always telling the EM's to shut up and give them stuff already... They don't want to hear the story and are always trying to ruin it for the rest of us who do. There are always at LEAST a dozen or more Gargoyles who are so selfish and annoying they feel the need to fly right over the EM's Wings constantly flapping they don't even have the courtesy to land for a few min while the EM is trying to RP the story plot. Then you have about 5 to 8 Tamers who feel they need to take their stinking Dragons inside every tiny room... Stand RIGHT on top of the EM and neither the Gargoyles or the Tamers with Dragons will move when asked multiple times by the EM and everyone else.

    I've said many times before that when this sort of crap goes on at an EM event the EM should have the right to say "Well ok... since no one wants to listen or follow directions I guess we'll just cancel the event for tonight and try again next week. If you all can behave then we might do the event then or just forget it and move on." But yes I think the EM's ought to have the right to just END the event when folk won't comply... I guarantee that after a couple times of that folk WILL pay attention.

    I often wish they had a mass blast that would knock all gargoyles down from the skies.

    I also keep telling those who don't want to listen that they are welcome to exercise their right to not waste their time or ours and they can certainly LEAVE.
     
    #4 MalagAste, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  5. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    EM event should start at Blackthorn's castle. By default it does not allow pets or flying. Those who wish to bring pets can park them at the end of the bridge until such time as the monster fighting begins. EM's should have access to the blocked tile areas to make thier announcements and explain the plotline for the evenings events. The one additional power I would grant to EM's would be the power to squelch disruptive players within the walls of the castle.

    I believe this would solve 99% of issues that arise at EM events.
     
  6. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    I did not even bother to attend, I gave up on EM events for this very reason a few months after returning to play. Either give EM's power to police their events, of have someone with power there to do it.
     
  7. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Well.... here is a thought. IMO 99% of the people attending EM events aren't there because it's going to be a fun adventure / cool story or whatever. They are there to pick up the rare EM item & make INSANE gold off of selling it. Sadly providing people who are able to attend these events with unique items which are just turned around & sold will undoubtedly draw the "wrong" crowd. It baffles me that the best way to make $$$ in this game is by milking EM events. That's the core of the problem.... If you eliminated that aspect you'd simply have the people that WANT to attend the event & participate for it's own sake & perhaps the occasional loser who's just out to cause a problem (because that's almost impossible to avoid). Sure give EM's a way to physical teleport people in game or something, but there are better ideas.....
     
  8. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    I rather like the occasional token representing my participation at an em event. I have several worth many millions that I have no interest in selling. I do not care if they are worthless either -I'd still keep them just the same. To that end, make sure em event items are worthless by leaving up clicky vending machines for several days and put no limits on how many a person can get. Those that want an item can get one, but it will be virtually worthless.

    even better, permanently place a clicky statue in reward hall and let anyone get any item from past events -as many times as they want to.
     
  9. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    How about using the code that blocks Reds from Tram and adjust it so that it can be used to block the jerks from the specific shard servers the event is going to happen on? The jerks earn themselves a flag on their account that they can't play nice with others, and for the following six months or year they are blocked from the event shard servers. They can play anywhere on the shard but those specific servers while the event is running. Their house is on those servers? Tough. You arranged to have something not secured so you can ***** here on Stratics how you were wronged afterwards because you lost that item? Tough. You made your bed, lie in it jerk.
     
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  10. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Give them the the Medusa stoned type power. Add chat/speach mute to the power. Then there is the longer duration.
     
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  11. Balinor of Pk?

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    How about the EM tells everyone to put those players that are out of control on ignore? Problem solved.
     
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  12. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    They should have the power to issue a 2 hour ban from the entire game and it should also come with a mark against your account.
     
  13. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    Mark on the account may be alil much but certainly some type of ban is warranted. If they cant log into the event while its going on its prob safe to say they wont be such asses next time. On a side note, I'd bet none of these guys are old vet players ;)
     
    #13 Acid Rain, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  14. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    spawn a few evil twins, and calm the player so they can't cast spells or attack. then when they get down to 1 hp, the EM can kill them with a freshly spawned mongbat. :D
     
  15. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Power to squelch the opposing players. Any more power and then people will start crying foul, claiming that the EMs are corrupted, etc.
     
  16. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    I just don`t like the soft approach to people like that. They go there to purposely disrupt and ruin gameplay for others. A mark and a ban will send the right message. Play well with others or don`t come at all. It will not be tolerated.

    They know they are being ignorant,they know they aren`t following the rules and imo it would qualify as harassment.
     
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  17. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    That's old hat, it's used now anyway by these same griefers. So give them the power to do something... Anything!!!
     
  18. The Mule

    The Mule Journeyman
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    That's horse poo! If I want to sit atop a bank then your EM event is interrupting my game play and you should have a ban on your account. I like to go to champ spawns but sometimes they get raided. I ask them to leave so that I can continue with my event. Those raiders are ruining my game. I should be able to have a ban put on them under the same rule set then.
    *It was not me who was on the bank nor do I play on ATL

    There are plenty of other locations that are available and if I decide not to leave because you want to use an occupied space, tough.


    EM's should have access to areas where they can stand and talk to those at their events without the masses able to get into the same space. If they are going to use a common area then those not attending/ participating the event should not have to move or leave so that the event can take place.

    EMs with the power to ban is plain stupid. Squelch, perhaps, but to ban, no thanks.
     
    #18 The Mule, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  19. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    If your sitting atop that bank griefing those who are there trying to enjoy the EM event then YOU who are interrupting the game play of MANY people need to be removed from the event. Your ban on the account idea would work even better since it would prevent the greifer's future griefing. :rolleyes:



    So the entire event should have to be moved because of someone with your attitude who apparently is not inclined to play nice with others. o_O


    It would be nice though if those not participating could show some common courtesy to those who are, and not deliberately interfere with the event. But that's not how griefer's get their jollies is it?

    Ban is a bit drastic, just teleport them to Yew moongate in fel as a red for a couple hours and let them try their bull there. :D
     
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  20. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    The complete freedom to use a timed squelch would be best I think. Maybe a 15 minute timer - most people there to disrupt would give up long before then. And if they don't, you just resquelch them.
     
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  21. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Just give EM's the power to put the offenders in jail.

    As most UO Stratic posters like to boast the freedom to do things in UO wouldn't that be taking away the freedom of griefers?

    OH noes! Should I say it? May as well. Just quit giving away items at EM events and maybe that may cure the issue.

    If I recall there was statement from Mesanna to deal with these issues and the issues still exist. Another fail? I think so.
     
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  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The idea that 99% of the people attend EM events solely for the item is a myth.

    I've made a lot of money from EM events, and yes I like it a lot, but I'd surely attend them without items and would support, sad to say it!, and end to items. I'll find other ways to make money. Money abounds, all you have to do is figure out how to get it.

    But that it's 99% that are there solely for the items is a myth, some even use a variant on this myth to justify griefing. (The theory being "we're all here for the item anyway, so spawn the boss with the item and get it over with.")

    There's, what, 100 regularly at GL's events? 80? 120 even? All it takes to ruin an event is 5. 10. (Especially if they are organized in some way.) Or, even, 1.

    -Galen's player
     
  23. keel

    keel Sage
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    Rather hostile, here. I didn't get to make the event, but I'm confident that someone's in-game behavior doesn't justify having "sense beaten into" them. I've made events in the past that wasted my time because players refused to follow the rules. The 2v2 tourney attempt awhile back? A bunch of reds ran around outside the building they didn't have access to and used AoEs, and they kept killing everyone until the tourney was called off; players got sashes that said that they attempted to fight in the 2v2. Of course, some of the sashes were immediately stolen or looted when the recipients were killed, but that's just the way it works.

    You cannot stop griefers. Squelching if someone uses language against ToS, that's warranted. Someone is belligerent in-game? Handle it in-game via roleplaying. The NPC could relocate and ban the person from the location. This talk of banning people's accounts is ridiculous. So others had a play style different from yours, and wanted to argue or get raucous when around the EM? Ignore them. We've all had time wasted by players who revel and thrive in the absence of consequences for causing trouble online. It's life. You can ignore them, or you can leave, but the threats are a bit asinine.
     
  24. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    /Signed. Just give the EM power to tele the offender to jail for 30 mins. Its not too excessive.
     
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  25. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    disagree- they do not need more powers.. Remember them gating people to green acres where they looted event items? They can call in help if needed and let actual employees handle the situation
     
  26. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Adventurer

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  27. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    The person who made this video is proclaiming "VICTORY!" over and over. Added with several comments about UO in general, I am lead to believe this person has no other motive than to destroy game-play for others.

    It's a cheap shot and the person's name is plain for anyone to see. If this does not warrant a permanent ban I don't know what does.

    Mesanna?
     
  28. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    The EM program is nothing but an excuse for a few cross-sharders to pay their rent selling UO items/gold.
     
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  29. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Not the end of the problem. At GL's last event this past Tuesday (not counting today's Valentine's event that I sadly missed), there were a small handful of people casting Mass Cure over and over and over and over because of the lag that it creates when hitting so many people at the same time (on systems that can't handle it, mind you... I was fine, but several others I know crashed and lost connection because of it).

    What's worse is that you can tell the EMs get fed up with it.

    They spend all of this time and energy to provide an enjoyable plot for the players, and they get **** on by the lowest common denominator. It's not cool, and it's not right, and truthfully, something DOES need to be done about it. An EM shouldn't have to take time in the middle of an event to say, "This is a warning!" so that people will start following along. I mean, on Great Lakes, there are people who won't stop harassing them in multiple ways, who won't back away from an NPC character so they can be heard and seen, who won't do simple things like sitting in the EM seats at the HQ. Week after week, over and over, and it tends to be the same people or group of people, and it's really tiresome as a player.

    I don't know the solution, but something should be done. And if it's the items that are causing this, then let's just get it over and done with and any "rare" items come at the end of an event, they're on a clicky in a non-recallable place, and you have to walk through a gate to get there. The catch? During the event, an EM can mark you as inelligible to walk through the gate. If you're a disruptive influence, you get nothing. Then the policing will take care of itself. Everyone who attends the event gets an item, but if you're not good, you don't get one. Of course, the detriment to this system becomes that you'll have hundreds of people at events instead of fifty, and that'll bring its own set of problems. I don't think punishing the entire playerbase by removing items is the key, but, there has to be some way of affecting the in-game experience in a way that causes the lousy folk to improve their behavior.
     
  30. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    GRIEFING
    IS NOT A
    PLAYSTYLE
     
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  31. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Pretty simple really. Squelch and freeze character is all they need... and they do need it... always did. We had it and more as smurfs.
     
    #31 Widow Maker, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
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  32. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This is a myth, the kind of myth that helps to create a philosophical space for griefing.

    Griefing a story, I think more people would see as reprehensible than griefing an excuse for cross-sharders to pay rent selling UO items/gold.

    And griefing a story, griefing content, griefing the kind of direct face-to-face interaction in global or shard-specific storylines or content that we clamor for until we get it (at which time we grief it and say it's meaningless), is what's going on here.

    I've come to see it week after week on Great Lakes and it's very depressing.

    -Galen's player
     
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  33. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Indeed it is not. If folks considering it such occurs in any game outside of UO, then I am unaware of it.

    Face-to-face, participation in stories is one the great strengths of UO; it's something I never felt in, for example, Star Wars Galaxies, nor have I been made aware of folks feeling in, say, World of Warcraft.

    The fact that folks can, in a game that's so story/immersion-dependent, consider griefing a playstyle, let alone a legitimate one, is disheartening.

    I am pleased, though, to see so comparatively few of these types of folks posting.

    -Galen's player
     
  34. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Why couldnĀ“t the EM start the event? How did people on a roof hinder it?
     
  35. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I have found that ignore works great for alot of the more vocal folks, but it would be nice to have a temporary ignore item placed nearby. Something that can be a dble click target player ruleset. let the EM's use it too. It would make the process go a bit faster. One of the big issues I see at alot of events are caused by everyone by overcrowding the EM. There have been some clever methods for getting around this like the throne room in Blackthornes castle, but these are location based.

    Could the EM's get some sort of tool that would work like a house placement tool? They could use it to plop down an invisible house plot that would kick everyone but them to the edge of the boundary. Set it on a timer that dissolves the barrier around the area after 15 minutes or so, or allow them to drop befrore if they like. This would give them enough time to present their fiction or drop a gate/statue/item without being stepped on by players.

    Also concerning mob fights, I have always thought that EM events make a nice little mini test center on poduction shards. The mobs at events, along with all the atendees, would provide resources for the makings of an eminity system, something I've always thought UO needed. Pretty simple to start, you already have a top attackers list for drops. Why not make that list the mob's top eminity list for targeting? Give them increased damge and push through toward the closest player on the top attacker list. Just a thought.
     
  36. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Not that you aren't already aware that I completely support your point of view on this, but I completely agree with you, and think it deserves being repeated.

    While I am nearly certain there were a couple of game-wide events in SWG, I don't recall ever being to one, and in WoW, unless you're on a PvP server, griefing is taken very seriously. To be honest though, in other, more modern MMOs, like you, I have never heard of griefing as a regular occurance at all. It's just not something that pervades most other games.

    But then, like you say, the whole EM story-driven content thing is pretty much unique to UO. There may be other games out there that do something like this, but if there is, I haven't really heard about it. UO has a very unique approach to content in that we do have EMs across our shards that not only provide our shards with content, but which also provide different experiences. Except for global arcs, the content is unique to the shard, and even in global arcs, some of the characters that push those plots forward are completely different. There is no Lord Magnus Grey on any other shard, no Sarah Paumera... those and their personalities and the countless other EM characters are unique to each shard, and that's a beautiful, wondrous thing.

    That there is a small minority of players who think it's necessary to stand out in a crowd by griefing events is sad. And all it manages to do is frustrate legitimate players and the EMs themselves. I can't speak for any of the EMs, but I suspect it gets old dealing with the same lot week in and week out, being told how crappy you are because you don't just hand out items every week, being told that the plot that you've worked on for the enjoyment of players is just getting in the way of "GIVE ME MY ITEM NAO!!!!" Thankfully, I hope, the EMs realize that the rest of us who show up regularly really do enjoy the plotlines that are provided, and really DO get immersed in that storyline that is in the background of our shard history, and really DO appreciate the work and time and effort that they put in.

    The problem is, when it starts becoming more than a couple of players -- and at GL's Tuesday event, it HAD to have been at least five or six, maybe more, that were trying to crash out as many people as they could -- and the event comes to a grinding halt because it's just impossible to proceed any further while players are misbehaving, then it's a waste of everyone's time.

    It's shameful, and anyone who would call that kind of behavior a "playstyle" really needs to consider just what "playing" means.
     
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  37. keel

    keel Sage
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    I didn't say that I agree with how they chose to play, but your cries of griefing are just as subjective as my classification of playstyle. Many players whine that the stealing skill is griefing, so instead of thinking of ways around it (such as being careful with your items) they cry until insurance is adopted. I'm suggesting that if someone is refusing to follow an NPC's instructions by not getting off of a roof, then handle it in-game, don't ***** and moan about people getting accounts banned. Why do you feel obligated to follow a character that is yellow and do everything they say? Some might suggest that that is metagaming, and outside of the spirit of the game, and that could be another man's "griefing" by trying to force them to follow the rules of some stranger that, when you mouse over them, they are invulnerability yellow.

    If it's not hacking or anything like that, quit whining and handle it in-game. The EM could just as easily have suggested that the event be moved somewhere that the offending character could not access, essentially a house he does not have access to, due to in-game heckling. There are ways to handle this in-game, and the knee-jerk THIS IS GRIEFING cry just doesn't suffice, sorry.
     
  38. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    That argument still won't stand up to Ultima Online's Rules of Conduct.

    Event Moderators, are authorized personnel, they are contracted directly to EA, for the purpose of conducting events. If they say get off the roof, the ROC says you better get off the roof; that they are representatives of EA while executing their duties makes it's pretty cut and dry. That other players are disturbed by the disruptive conduct has everything to do with it as long as those disturbed are acting within the Rules of Conduct.

    Every other player who was attempting to enjoy the event by the following those rules are fully in their right to complain. Stealing does not constitute griefing, simply because it falls with in established rules based on game mechanics, and I will agree thieves have been hit pretty hard over the years, and the shouts of griefing are tossed about too freely, but that free flowing battle cry does not provide nor hint at an excuse to disobey the games Rules of Conduct nor any shelter from them.

    What is more disturbing, is the lack of enforcement of the Rules of Conduct in this regard, especially due to the limitations placed on Event Moderators, who as I mentioned are acting as EA representatives in the execution of their duties. Should they have limited powers to police disruptions of the events they are being paid to execute? I'd have to say yes, up to at least being able to move individuals through a targeted "Telestorm".
     
    #38 Nexus, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
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  39. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    EMs cannot have those powers because they are no employees of EA. They are independent contractors. They will never have that power, so time to move on from that.

    Actually, the devs can't do anything about those players directly either. They have to call a GM to handle the players.
     
  40. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, EMs aren't authorized personnel. They are independent contractors, not employees.
     
  41. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Spoken like a true griefer.
    An EM should have the power and the right to ban/squelch and instakill anyone who is there soley to disrupt what is being put forth for the COMMUNITY.

    Eat that ban stick and stfu imo. Wanna play like an a$$ hole..... you will be treated like an a$$ hole.

    Period.

    And if their not empowered to deal with scum bags like this than they should just shut right down and not do anything inagme or with the community. If they do, than stop giving out unique items.
     
    #41 Mitzlplik_LS, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
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  42. keel

    keel Sage
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    So you're suggesting that instead of plausibly handling a rude character with in-play repercussions, a player should get banned because they didn't get off the roof? Your "community" is kinda starting to look like a mob to me.

    No, spoken like a clear-headed player approaching the topic without bias. Perhaps you, too, believe that some people should have "sense beaten into" them?
     
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  43. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I don't care what you call it when folk DELIBERATELY stand on top of the EM or NPC and will NOT move even when asked politely by the EM this is GREIFING.... and should NOT be allowed.

    And I can ignore a whole load of people infact my ignore list grows by a weekly basis....... but I can't ignore some j**k**s standing on top of the EM/NPC wings flapping all over can't see what's being said... Can't tell what's going on.....

    Most times the only reason I know the EM put something down is because I use the EC and Pinco's UI and I can filter out BS and see what I need to see with control/shift IF I know what it is I'm supposed to be looking for.

    Sitting in the EM's chair when asked not to is just being an A**... That simple. It's folk like that who ruin the fun of the event for others because the EM has to spend time dinking with them...

    And I agree with Ra'Dian and Galen these people put for a LOT of time and effort to give us live events for everyone to enjoy and it just isn't right to treat them like dirt. They are other players who take the time to do these events... And they ARE paid employees I really don't care what you want to call it... But yes they have to call a GM. Which in my opinion is silly they ought to be able to do something about greifers....

    And like I said maybe it might take saying "That's it if you can't listen or behave then we are done for tonight.".... and logging out. A couple times of that ought to cure the BS. And I for one would rather they turned the item giving off or gave clickies to everyone attending and to heck with the rares BS. Honestly I'm so fed up with it if that's all anyone comes to the events for then perhaps they should no longer do them. Personally I would hate to see the EM program shut down but if something isn't done about such things then what is the point of putting them on if those who come to actually enjoy them FOR THE EVENT... can't enjoy it.
     
  44. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    No, lets go back to when there was no insurance and you were a thief.... Im going to have a sword worth 50mill in my pack, and I will very clearly 'role-play' that no one should steal it. Will I have it in my pack long? lol.

    Now to the 'mob' comment.... If what the mob is clammoring for is clearly in the right, color me involved!
     
  45. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, they go out of their way to let you know that EMs are not employees. There is a HUGE difference between an employee and an independent contractor.
     
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  46. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    YUP!

    Because there ARE people out there who deserve it. You can file your soft hearted,low or no punishment thought BS with the other victims who might be listening to you.
     
    #46 Mitzlplik_LS, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  47. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    Anyone notice 4:49 and again at 6:04 in the video ?
    This is obviously the old client. There is no such message when using UOA and making these macro.
    UOA does NOT ever show any "playing macro" message for playing macros, it simply plays them.
    There isnt even an option in UOA to toggle on and off "playing macro" messages.... doesnt exist.

    Seems to me this childish idiot has posted a video clearly showing him using illegal 3rd party programs, a bannable offense.

    Mesanna ?
     
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  48. keel

    keel Sage
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    If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were levying a threat. And the "soft-hearted, low or no punishment thought BS" is actually open-mindedness. You should try it.
     
  49. ProUO

    ProUO Adventurer

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    ARNOLD >>>>>>> UO
     
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  50. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    *yawn*