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How am I supposed to know...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by envinyatar, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    I got an email this morning from ea saying that my account has been flagged for using a bugged quiver. I just got the quiver from an account that I bought and had no idea that it was bugged. Only after reading do I even understand what this means (some how the bug makes the quiver hold more arrows than it should). Anyway, the quiver in question was holding less than the 500 max so I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. How am I supposed to know that the dang thing is bugged? I contacted EA support and was basically told "too bad." WTF?
     
  2. Zodiac19

    Zodiac19 Guest

    Did your account get banned? Did you end up in Jail? Did the quiver get deleted or fixed? If you are able to login and do not know the status I would page a GM and explain the problem and ask someone to come fix the illeagl item. Stuff happens as long as you are not perma baned all is well.
     
  3. You can tell if a quiver is bugged or not by the weight it shows. If an empty quiver shows 0/400 stones instead of 0/50 stones, then it's bugged and you will need to call a GM to come and change it. If you contact a GM prior to a GM finding it, they'll simply change it and put no mark on your account.
     
  4. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Ya but any flag is a bad flag. Lets say you do something stupid in the near future and get busted, they look at your acct history. That could possibly escalate the next offense.
     
  5. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    If you get caught with another bugged quiver after being flagged for having one, they'll very likely take action against your account.
    If you repeatedly get caught having different bugged items, they'll very likely take a much closer look at your account. If you don't do anything aside from buy items that were obtained through bugs without having prior knowledge about the bug, then your account is safe.
     
  6. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    Well the problem is I wasn't even aware that there was a bug on these things or I would have checked it when I first got it. I put it on and used it last night being none the wiser. I got the email this morning, so the damage is already done and they won't remove the mark.

    I haven't tried to log in yet because I'm at work, but they did tell me to page a GM to have it fixed, so I'm guessing I'm ok.

    What I'm wondering now is how do you get flagged in the first place?
     
  7. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    Some butthead who has nothing better to do paged on you.
     
  8. packrat

    packrat Guest

    That sux. That has happened to me also. I just didnt get a flag. I was wearing a quiver i got as loot from the swoops. I cant remember if it was the quiver of elements or rage.
    I keep close track of my weight and one day noticed I had a few stones more than normal. I started checking through things and noticed one quiver (I keep 3) and one of them had 900 bolts. I opened it and had two stacks of bolts. I think the problem is from bolts not stacking. I don't know how it happened but I took the two stacks out and tried to restack them but they wouldnt stack. It hasn't happened again. I think they should not flag you for some thing they did wrong. I saw on here last week, someone else had the same thing happen to them. She called a gm to fix it.
     
  9. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest



    of course it is to late, but you can always send Jeremy a PM and she can get them fix'd. :) she fixed a ton of mine that went buggy. thanks again :)

    but honestly, for how long this bug has been around not knowing about it is slightly unbelieveable.. even more so because you demonstrated you read stratics and it was a hot topic for a long time.

    well known bug, still not fixed however.
     
  10. This is NOT how the quivers get bugged. Due to RoC I won't disclose the actual process, but it takes a conscious effort on the part of the player to "bug" a quiver. I'm kind of surprised they haven't fixed this one yet considering how many people have reported getting caught by GM's with quivers they "didn't know" were bugged. Most likely the one you had you either had given to you or bought from another player's vendor and had been bugged before you got it.
     
  11. packrat

    packrat Guest

    I read stratics pretty often and I didn't hear about it until it happened to me a few weeks ago. I don't read every single post on stratics. I read only the ones that peak my interest. I don't care about a rat hole, why holiday items are worth 50 points or why there isnt a cocoa tree.
    And if things are broken because of some coded bug, it should not be the players responsibility to keep track of these things. They surely shouldnt be getting flagged. Just fix his quiver and let it go.
    That would be like finding something on the ground and putting on and getting an email saying the item you picked up is bugged and you are flagged.
     
  12. packrat

    packrat Guest

    I assure you, I did not make a conscious effort to bug my quiver and I got the quiver off of a swoop, unless the swoop bugged it, it happened on its own. I couldnt bug anything if I tried. I am not in the game to bug things, cheat the game or dupe things. Over 8 years playing, i have never been to jail, never got any flags on my 4 accounts. It just happened in normal play. I saw someone post this also and she had it happen during normal play.
    So, don't come on here and accuse people of bugging things if you do not know the facts.
     
  13. I didn't accuse you of anything. If you'd reread what I wrote instead of getting defensive about something I didn't say, you'd clearly see that I said you must have gotten it from someone else and that it was bugged before you got it from them. It is possible that sometime after you'd received it as a drop that you'd inadvertantly done what is necessary to bug the quiver and just not realized it until later though.
     
  14. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
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    as far as i remember it didnt allow two stacks but allowed one stack up to 4k bolt/arrows. at one time nearly every quiver you saw was a 4k one
     
  15. packrat

    packrat Guest

    I don't know how to do it or how it works but mine showed up as two stacks in the quiver. I took both stacks out and tried to make one stack of 500 but they wouldn't stack. I don't put arrows in my quiver. I hit the auto load.
    I was just saying, they shouldn't punish a player for something that could happen innocently.
     
  16. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    quote: but honestly, for how long this bug has been around not knowing about it is slightly unbelieveable.. even more so because you demonstrated you read stratics and it was a hot topic for a long time.....end quote

    Just because people have been on stratics a long time, a lot of us only read the topics that interest us. A lot of us gave up on trying to keep trac of Bugs as there are so many of them. I never heard of this until just now.

    And what about all the players who do NOT read stratics? This also shows the risk you take buying anything from other players.
     
  17. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    Um, ok.. I don't have anywhere near enough time to read every post on stratics, nor do I wish to. I've just recently come back to UO after almost a two year hiatus and honestly it shouldn't be my responsibility to know what is bugged and what isn't. If this is a known bug and a "hot topic" as you say, it should have been fixed by the devs so players don't have to worry about it.

    All I was saying is that my account should not be penalized because of this. I will gladly delete the quiver or get it fixed by a gm, but I wasn't knowingly using it. I put it on, stood around in Luna for a few hours waiting for the new stranger, popped out to kill a few artic ogre lords (maybe 5 total), went back to Luna, stood around for another hour, helped kill the stranger and logged off. If what someone above said is true, while I was standing around in Luna, some loser probably paged on me while I was waiting. :(
     
  18. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Packrat's overloaded (but still 500 arrrow/400 stone stated max) quiver comes from a quirk of the ammo recovery system.

    If you reload a quiver after firing a lot of arrows/bolts out of it, but before the "recover" kicks in, you can end up with 2 or more stacks totalling over 500. Even if the amount totals under 500, when you try to refill, it takes one of the stacks up to 500, putting it over. The only way to fix the issue is to empty the quiver, or fire one of the stacks (or maybe both stacks) completely empty.

    This bug happens randomly, I've not found a way to reproduce it (if I had, I would have emailed it to Jeremy, not be talking about the bug here in this detail). IT may or may not have something to do with the source of the arrows/bolts. Note that this bug ALSO crops up sometimes when you change a quiver from arrows to Bolts in a fight, before the previous ammo type is recovered, or if you have multiple quivers on you, but are firing ammo from one that you're not wearing (with the other ammo type in the one you have on).

    It's an annoyance, fixable by the player (and can be self-fixing), and too little of an issue for the GMs to typically deal with. On the other hand, the Quiver of Infinity exploit is just that, and takes deliberate actions by someone to set up.
     
  19. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    And you know what I think of all of this? I think EA dropped the ball big time by not fixing all bugged quivers to begin with.

    Why should a player be sanctioned for something they should have corrected from the start like all other bugs in the game.

    Very poor way to handle this and I strongly disagree with how they are handling it.

    Without announcing this outright on the front page by saying do not use these or else and warning players to contact staff to fix it or even making a way for players to correct the issue possible just adding a fix that takes effect at server up even they are really doing an injustice to those who honestly had no clue. And yeah there really are some players out there unaware of things like this.
     
  20. Revenant2

    Revenant2 Guest

    I don't believe they make a mark against your account for the first time. The email is just telling you to get the thing fixed, I think.

    From a player usage standpoint, I think they should make quivers able to hold at least 1500 arrows or bolts instead of 500. Sure you can just carry 4+ quivers in your pack, but it's kinda silly.

    Or better yet, I'd like to see them make all quivers work as the 'bugged' ones do, and it's even easy as a design tech thing. Containers as a default tend to set themselves to hold stuff by weight anyway. Why not go with the flow on this one and make everyone happy? It seems to be just a convenience thing and an insurance cost thing (if you aren't carrying just quivers of infinity which are blessed). I can't think of a game-imbalancing aspect of individual quivers holding 3000 arrows or bolts when, at the same time, people can accomplish exactly the same thing 'legally' by carrying multiple quivers.

    BTW. There's also a bug with "recovery" of bolts and arrows that makes it so that if you carry and use both bows and crossbows, and especially if you play in Fel, the bug will eventually force you into keeping the quiver on your back empty and carrying at least 2 quivers in your pack, one for arrows and one for bolts. What happens is that 'recovery' of stray arrows and bolts forces your real supply of arrows or bolts out of one quiver and puts them in your base level pack without your knowing or even being able to see it has happened, and inserts a 'recovered' arrow or bolt in their place. At that point you will have one quiver with, for example, your big supply of crossbow bolts, the other one with one crossbow bolt (recovered), and invisible to you, lots of arrows in the base level of your pack. Then, you die and your main supply of arrows goes onto your corpse and your corpse gets looted. The work-around is having one quiver be empty, in addition to quivers for your bolts and arrows. Someone should submit a bug report on that =p
     
  21. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    most likely the post you're thinking of, packrat, can be found here

    like you, I was just playing normally and if that quiver was bugged before that night I simply did not notice it and it just began accepting more arrows than it should have

    Revenant, why don't you do just that..... copy/paste what you wrote there and submit it, 'cause like Doomsday Dragon says, there actually are (gasp) UO players that don't frequent Stratics
     
  22. Lucy of Kenton

    Lucy of Kenton Seasoned Veteran
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    Tbh, people that know me know how anti rule breaking i am.
    but i dont see it as a huge problem having those quivers. mages have 100 lrc suits, dexxers dont need resources but for both archers and dexxers when we die we dont have any bandies etc so once we rez we need to hit a bank or reach our body in some hell holes and we are the only ones that need resources to fight
     
  23. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    I know people who do peerless and harrys with 3 of those bugged quivers, thats 12k in arrows/bolts. I also know several players who run those quivers too and use them for pvp. Me, I dont see the problem either, but I guess thats just me.
     
  24. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    Seriously there is no problem with the amount of arrows/bolts a bugged quiver holds the actual problem and reason it is made a big deal is because it was not intended to work that way therefore you are abusing a bug which is actually against the rules.

    But I still think it is BS that they handle this the way they do and make no attempt to correct it and put this issue to rest.
     
  25. Killian

    Killian Guest

    I think if a bug isn't listed on the news page we get when we start UO.. the NOTHING can be done to a player... unless they are obvisouly using the bug to their advantage....

    I never know the bugs in UO.. I do love stratics, but stratics is not the official UO news source.. nor, does everybody know about it....

    I dont follow everything in these forums, as i would rather play the game than read about all the issues and complaints about the game...

    Punnishing for a bug, before even consulting the player suspected, is wrong... even if its just a flag. A bug should be fixed, a bug should known to anybody who logs into UO if they are going to punish people for it. If that was me who got flagged, I would send emails to all sorts of people, i would page GM's, i would do what ever it took to get that flag removed due to their incompetence to allow the player database know about it with out having to dig through forums to know about a bug... if the player even suspects it...

    just my thoughts about it....
     
  26. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Did you just contradict yourself? First you said you have to make a conscience effort then you say its possible to do it inadvertantly. No beef Connor, it's just a lil confusing.
     
  27. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    So to make matters worse, the quiver was not bugged to begin with...

    I logged on last night to page the GM like I was instructed so it could be fixed but I figured, let me check this thing just to see... sure enough, not even bugged. So I paged and said that it wasn't bugged and they responded that they couldn't speak to me in-game about it. What a run around!

    So I updated my question on the EA support page and I still haven't heard back... I'd like to get the person that paged on me banned for a false police report.
     
  28. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    they may have just fixed it while you weren't lookin' ..... altho, when they did that to me, the GM did send one of those little messages telling me so
     
  29. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    No, they specifically told me to log on and page a GM to fix it, I checked the quiver before I paged and nothing was wrong with it.
     
  30. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    I've noticed a strange thing with one of my quivers a month or so ago, so I guess I should check mine tonight when I get home. They really should post something on this since I bought one of my quivers on a vendor and had no idea they could be bugged.
     
  31. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    envinyatar, you're not expected to know. But the GMs told you, and made a note that they'd told you, so.. now you know, and we know you know. That's all that's going on here.
     
  32. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Now that he knows that you know that he knows and we also know, when will you know so you can let us know if the Devs know when they'll let us know so we can let each other know once you know IF IT WILL EVER BE FIXED.... who knows?
     
  33. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Why doesn't EA just make all the quivers 0/400?

    Its not that unbalancing and is more of convenience issue.

    To get your account banned/marked for something so stupid when duping, hacking, scripting is so rampant is both funny and sad.

    I can sit in Heartwood and script Heartwood runics for days on end and nothing happens yet with a quiver modified for 400 stones - its an account mark.

    Its like letting the murders go free while you chase jaywalkers. Nice work EA/GM's. I guess go after the easy to catch and ignore the organized crime.
     
  34. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Theo, you missed my point - it's not a "black mark" or anything, it's just a note that you've been informed of this particular issue, so if we find you selling half a dozen of them next week, you can't tell us "Oh, but I didn't know!"
     
  35. packrat

    packrat Guest

    Now im confused. A guy is wearing a quiver he has no clue is bugged. So we are going to flag him incase he sells a dozen of them next week? huh...
    So that means anyone wearing a quiver is going to get a flag in case it gets bugged on its own and we might sale a dozen next week?
    Come on Dev's. We are telling you that there is a problem with the quivers over loading on their own. Just fix the bug that is causing this and we wont have to flag anyone... I wish you guys would react this quick when we report on scripters and gold farmers. :grouphug:
     
  36. ki-rin

    ki-rin Guest

    hi jeremy

    seriously a quiver holds 500 arrows/50 stone weight is not enough. try bring only 500 arrows to do a champ spawn and you'll run out of arrows long before you see the champ spawned. don't you think it's kinda silly for archers to carry 10 quivers on them, 5 for arrows and 5 for bolts ..
     
  37. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Ok. You didn't get into trouble or anything.
    Everything is fine.
    When they say your account was "flagged" that is just their way of letting you know that they have informed you about the item (in this case your quiver) and that you have an opportunity to get it fixed BEFORE you get into trouble.
    It's no big deal.
    By "how was I supposed to know" well... they just TOLD you. That's how you know.
    Now if you continued to use a bugged quiver and they checked and saw the "flag" that said you'd already been TOLD about it, THEN you would be in trouble.
    Understand?
    Don't sweat it. There's no mark on your account or anything. Just make sure the quivers you use are legit and if there's a question page a GM with "I received an email asking me to page to check and make sure my quiver is legal" The GM SHOULD then let you know if you're good to go.
    Again no big deal. Biggest problem is having to sit and wait for the GM to show up. lol
    Hope this helps you out.
     
  38. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    10 full quivers = 500 stones... how exactly do you have room for bandages, armor, potions, loot, a bow, a crossbow, and whatever else you might want to carry if you have 10 quivers?
    And who says you need to keep all of your arrows and bolts in a quiver?

    There are ways to minimize any impact thieves might have against you (assuming you even run across any considering how rare they are nowadays), and if you're dying and getting looted too much you should work on defending yourself and/or use the arrows in your quiver to kill the person who looted you.
     
  39. ki-rin

    ki-rin Guest

    yea 10 quivers was too much but i was just trying to make a point. clearly a quiver holding just 500 arrows isn't nearly enough, have to carry at least a few to hold enough arrows/bolts to even complete a champ spawn. quivers reduce the weight of arrows and bolts so why not keeping all arrows and bolts in quivers?? :confused:

    hmm just where in my post did i say i was dying and getting looted too much?? please don't presume that, thank you. i do pretty good defending myself and killing those attacking me. if you don't believe me, you 're welcome to come and find out yourself.

    but why not increase the capacity of a quiver a little? like maybe increase it to 1000 arrows/ 100 stone weight? is that too much to ask??
     
  40. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    Ok, but when I checked the quiver before I paged to have it fixed, there wasn't anything wrong with the quiver. When I paged to talk to a GM about it, I was informed that they can't talk to me in-game. I've since attempted to get a response from EA support online to no avail. I'll page again tonight, but like I said, the quiver did not appear to be bugged (it looked like the other quiver of infinity that own).

    Quiver wasn't bugged, it was a regular quiver dyed with tokuno pigment (unless the bugged quivers look like every other quiver, which then the question would be how can i tell for the future?). When I paged, I got a canned response that is of no help, the GM couldn't talk to me in-game. Great, I don't have a mark against my account, but how can I find out what happened in the first place if the quiver was never bugged?
     
  41. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    With all due respect Jeremy - you missed my point. Simply fix the issue by making them all hold 400 stones and lets move on with more important things.

    It either makes someone go back more often to get arrows or you carry another quiver of infinity in your pack. Still blessed, no more insurance $$ and more arrows. Why not just make all quivers work up to 400 stones? No one carries 400 stones of arrows anyway or you wouldn't be able to loot monsters or carry bandies.

    I really don't think person A with 400 stone quiver vs person B with 50 stone quiver is really much of an advantage. So Person B has another quiver in his pack than person A. Big deal.

    Lets fix the code and get on to more important things. The fact that we have 40 replies and 2 posts by you to a non-issue is troubling. There are more things that should take your time then weight on quivers.

    Thats my point.
     
  42. Beerman72

    Beerman72 Visitor

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    Just curious...but how does one carry 1200 stones?

    I think the GMs in this game are overzelous. The quivers can still be bugged as far as I know (I still see alot of them around). IMO the GMs should just put a stealth fix on the ones they find bugged. Giving players marks for this and other issues just reflects badly on a customer service team already plagued with poor service gripes.
     
  43. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Well, that's actually a different issue than the OP's original question :p

    envinyatar, now I'm kinda confused - feel free to email me with your account name and I'll try to figure out what happened. jdalberg AT ea DOT com
     
  44. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    email sent, thanks for the help.
     
  45. Beerman72

    Beerman72 Visitor

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    yep...so the average player goes by once again with punishment while the truly guilty in the game walk. just how much must I or anyone else pay beyond our sub fees to get staff to turn the other cheek? (those names I turned in for instance that were allowed...while others remained in violation.)

    whats really going on here is grief tactics used by the paging player. dont think so? do some research on it...all you need to do is delve into your mailbox. (i know several people have submitted emails to you on issues with GMs...including my roomate)
     
  46. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    It seems to me that it should be incumbent upon EA to fix the issue and move on.

    Until then they should be allowed to be used in game. Its not like the person playing the account made it bugged, so why penalize anyone for a programming mistake.

    Again if EA doesn't want people using them, then fix it and move on!
     
  47. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    I'm starting to think that too, Beerman. I haven't received a response to my questions all day on EA's support website and it seems to me that the initial email I received about being "flagged" was sent out without the account being checked to see if it actually contained a bugged item in the first place. The whole incident is suspicious and is pushing me more and more into the decision to not participate in the current event (I was sitting in Luna for hours waiting for the new stranger wearing the quiver in question for the first time).
     
  48. The quiver was probably fixed by the same GM that sent you the email. They don't make a habit of noting an exploit and sending an email without fixing the issue. By the time you got to the point of looking at it, and even prior to you creating this thread, that quiver had already been fixed by the GM to be a "proper" quiver.
     
  49. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Connor, I have the same suspicion, which is why I'm checking on our side.
     
  50. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    Would have been nice of them to tell me though, so I could have avoided all of this. =( If that is indeed the case, I apolegize for starting a ruckus. :gee: