1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

How can new players understand this game?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Loqucious, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    I have played this game for 7 plus years. I am a scientist by profession, so I'm reasonably educated (gosh I hope I don't make spelling mistakes! LOL). But as I'm reading the report from the last town hall meeting all I can ask myself is how a new player can possibly join this game and have any fun. Heck, I'm confused with all this new stuff and I have a strong knowledge of the game as it is currently written.

    There is already sooooooo much understanding that is needed to play this game, and now we will have a new expansion that will make the learning curve even harder. As well as two clients! I really don't think people will want to join an online game that not only takes a very large amount of time investment to be competitive, but also takes an extraordinary amount of effort to figure out how to succeed. There is no book that a person can refer to when they need answers, and if there was it would have to be huge.

    I firmly believe that UO will never expand it's player base with this approach. I believe most online players would like to simply log onto their char, run around, and have some fun. This approach is the opposite of that.

    And here it is, the flame me statement. UO NEEDS A RETRO SHARD. Quit trying to be cute and just let us have some fun! Many many current and former players have said this over and over.............devs, are you listening...............do you not understand?! You are losing your player base!
     
  2. Nevyn

    Nevyn Guest

    Probably the biggest reason UO is still around is the minimal overhead cost of keeping all the servers running once they're already running. For example, before the Mythic acquisition UO was nowhere near the cash cow that EA's other franchises were (Madden every year, etc). But there was no point in shutting down the servers, because for that minimal overhead they get monthly subscription fees from 75k or so subscribers.

    With a retro shard you're talking about maintaining an entirely different codebase for a single shard...which would mean a lot of overhead/man hours spent for a single shard that has no proof that it will be successful. In fact, they have evidence that specialized ruleset shards don't exactly open the floodgates (cf. Siege Perilous). Doesn't sound like an easy sell to the suits.

    Besides, I see no reason to believe that newcomers would find a retro shard easier to understand/learn/play than the current game. The only reason there's "no book that a person can refer to when they need answers" is because many who used to provide such materials are no longer interested. Stratics used to have essays upon essays about any facet of the game you might wonder about. But it doesn't seem like people are generating that kind of content anymore. Sites I used to frequent and contribute to have atrophied. It's not a technical fault of the game, it's simply user apathy. That's not something the developers can do anything about.
     
  3. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,548
    Likes Received:
    548
    They can't.
     
  4. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
    Administrator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    Long ago they had Companions that were dedicated to helping New Players with the [young] tag get their feet under them. When a [young] would log on the companion could blink over to them, and ask them if they wanted or needed any assistance in learning how to play. That's gone, the tutorials don't really give a good basis you can't ask them specifics on skill gain they aren't capable of personalized feedback. The Knowledge base is sorely lacking in information or time consuming on many of what were the most common questions asked....What should I do to raise this skill, which skills are most complementary with this skill....
    Stratics is a good resource and I always told people about it, but it doesn't cover all the variables that can happen or all the questions a new player might have, just like the knowledge base. They need to bring a personalized approach back to new player development and introduction to the fundamental practices involved in playing UO. UO isn't go out grind up skills on Rats till you hit lvl 5 then switch to orcs, it's more complicated than that because most spawns are not centralized to any given location, outside the dungeons, which we all know isn't where most training takes place. Golems don't help either, they allow you to gain skill without knowledge of how to use it, telling a new player to use a golem is doing them a disservice....
     
  5. DHMagicMan_1

    DHMagicMan_1 Guest

    The starting character screens ask you what town you want to start in and then dump you in New Haven!!! Is a newbie supposed to understand why?

    The only new players UO will see is either
    1. Returning Players
    2. Friends of Current Players
    3. Hard Core Gamers who play every game and will spend the time to learn the game because it's a classic.

    You won't get any wandering kids picking up a box in a store or looking at the graphics and saying "I want to play that"...
     
  6. Nevyn

    Nevyn Guest

    @Nexus
    As fun trivia I was accepted as a Companion. I ended up choosing to spend more time helping people on forums, instead.

    Anyway, as to your point...you seem to have missed mine. The fact that there isn't easy to access information on "What should I do to raise this skill, which skills are most complementary with this skill...." is because most of the players who used to provide such guides (and I was one of them) do not do so with as much frequency anymore. And that's really where the information should reside. Where's the mystery if EA/Mythic writes you a "Get every skill to 120 in 3 days!" guide? It would kill the fun of discovery and experimentation.

    First off, you really don't want to overwhelm new players with information, so it wouldn't make sense to bombard them with that sort of thing upon character creation. It really is something that should be handled by the community. I mean, generally games come with a guide telling you the basics (how the menu works, etc) and you learn the rest yourself. That model is successful, and it would ruin a lot of the fun if the company told you the optimum way to level every skill, which professions are the best, etc. It would stifle community growth, as goal oriented people would just follow the book instead of communing with their fellow players.

    The personalized approach you're looking for? It's where you found my post. There is an out of game forum community to help each other out (do GMs still refer people to Stratics?), and that's where your "personalized approach to new player development and introduction to the fundamental practices involved in playing UO" belongs. If you can't get your answers in game or on the forums, then it's the community failing...and that's no fault of EA/Mythic's.
     
  7. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    13
    UO still attracts noobs occasionally, who don't mind the graphics, and are looking for a deeper experience than what the modern MMO provides. Ceteris paribus, UO really does have a huge amount of content, skills, and landmass for the gamers who don't need to be hand-held through every quest.

    What really cripples the noobie experience isn't the amount of information they have to absorb, but the amount of gold the gear in this game costs.

    It would also help if either the UO main website, or Stratics, stayed on top of the changes and documented everything a bit better - not just for noobs, but for anyone considering coming back, as well as current players.

    As for the retro shard, Siege, along with the popularity of Trammel, have shown that's it's not a profitable investment. Most people who ask for it are chasing a golden age of the game that cannot be recaptured outside of a player shard. Which is where I suggest you look.
     
  8. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    I have heard this said many times but there is something I just don't understand. Why can't the devs put up a pre-LBR shard and walk away? No development, no new stuff to introduce, no new artwork, no new anything. Why would this cost EA anything? It would give players a chance to just log in and have some fun and a TON of players have asked for it.
     
  9. Sindris

    Sindris Guest

    I agree, I would think a new player would be flat out overwhelmed when starting this game. I have personally introduced 4 different people to the game within the last three years and 3 of them even stayed. In order to do this, however, I had to spend a lot of in-game time walking them through even the most basic things. This is NOT a game that you can just drop into and start playing immediately without either being coached or doing a LOT of reading. The three guys (and one wife) really loved the game once they got past the mechanics and memorized all of the hot-key combination's that let them do simple things like open their bank and pull up the game radar.

    I have tried to pull in others but this game is just too full of stuff to do and it gets a bit overwhelming. Another problem is the fact that new players are forced to deal with an incredibly inflated economy where a lucky forge from a shadow hammer will run yield a weapon that sells for 1 million gold (or more). "Hrm, started with 1k gold, only 999,000 gold to go!"
    That's a lot of rat man killing.
    Those of us who have played a long time know what a great game this is despite the mistakes that have been made. (Curse you Anthony "Sunsword" Castro and your publish 16 diablo-clone debacle! *shakes fist*) In terms of sheer content, we have most games beat in spades, even when implementation is a bit... unwieldy? We have a passionate Dev team that does what they can whit what they are given (which I suspect is not a whole lot) and despite my irritation which often finds release here on these forums, I do still love this game. Quirks and all.

    I don't really see any help coming for new players unless it comes from existing players. Been that way for a while though, as you all know.
     
  10. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    I believe that one of the problems with where UO sits in the MMOG genre is that UO is a sandbox. There is no distinct direction when you first log in on your first character (even the current New Haven system isn't very defined directionally... do the little KR-tutorial, then go see some NPCs and work up skills), it's all up to the player.

    A retro shard will NOT solve this problem, but more on that later.

    By comparison, a game like WoW (chosen as I have experience with the game, and not with others) directs your character well into the mid levels of the game through the various quest lines. A game like WoW is a lot more structured and the MMOG audience is getting used to a more structured experience compared to the "world" aspect of UO.

    Back when UO started, people seemed a lot more open to creating their own fun and what seems so simple now (going through a legacy dungeon with no champ spawns, no artifact drops, etc, just the static monster spawns and normal loot drops) doesn't measure up to what we are now used to.

    We moan about the "loss of community" and even try to point fingers as to why its happened (a lot of which is simply that the majority of people do not choose to stay with one game forever). People "move on", the reasons may be different, but the effect is the same, and so a lot of the original passion is gone at least from the player base.

    Others who stayed (like myself) spent a lot of time and effort to build something up that has since been lost due to changes in the game, loss of members, and so on. Trying to rebuild from that is difficult (at least to do it in the same way). The answer I personally have found that returned a lot of passion for the game for me is NOT to try and repeat what you have already done, but to do something NEW (instead of player run town, I'm now involved with a group of people doing out-of-game UI work on the new client and helping people understand how to use the new client and UI features).

    What I'm trying to say above is that the PLAYER DIRECTION of the game has diminished quite a bit for whatever reason, so we're reaching a point where we are relying more on Dev-created direction (in UO's case Live Events, in WOW's case, quest threads, raids and battlefields) compared to what we did 7 to 10 years ago.

    So in UO's terms, the game has to go in one of two directions: Either the game becomes more sturctured (read: linear for character advancement), or the players need to be able to find a way to help newer players get a grip on how the game works and how to have fun enjoying the openness of the game. As an example, I have a co-worker who tried out UO a while back (before I met him) and he explained to me that he was just floored by the oppenness of the game. He was simply overwhelmed with options from square one. When he asked people what to do, the answer was "Whatever you want" and that was about it. Nice in theory, but difficult for a new player in practice.

    Now, a retro shard will do nothing to solve this problem as there was even LESS direction back then than there is now. A retro shard will mean nothing to a player who has never played UO before. If you want people who LEFT the game to come back, you may have an argument. Remember that the MMOG Genre has moved AWAY from non-con PvP and aside from Eve, PvP is 100% consentual based on server ruleset chosen.
     
  11. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,351
    Likes Received:
    15


    OK, I'll bite.


    (I haven't read the Town Hall stuff on the next expansion, so I'll argue the case from UO as is today....)


    The multi-client issue is a non-starter. Each player choses the look they like and plays accordingly.



    For the sake of a debate, I'm going to compare UO to the only other online game I play a lot... Anarchy Online.


    I'd like to think that I know most aspects of UO fairly well; and it's taken me 5 years to learn what I have.

    I've played Anarchy longer than I have UO, but my knowledge of that game in general is way less than UO.
    Despite Anarchy being a class-based game, the skill-tree structure is immensly more complex than UO. In UO it is completely possible to start a "swordsman" or an "archer", or a "mage" and go out and kill stuff - something which cannot be done in Anarchy.

    Training skills is insanely easy in UO.
    I'm currently buffing my macer from 115 to 120 skill.
    I can do this in top-level Despise, killing Lizards.
    To transpose Anarchy skillgain onto UO.... if my macer didn't fight Dreadhorn, he would have no chance of gaining.


    UO has an incredible data resource here on Stratics. Any new player could plan their first 6-months gameplay according to what is available here.
    It is certainly out of date in some places, but if you consider that a problem, feel free to contribute more up-to-date information.


    The paragraph I bolded in your quote is the most telling: If you want to master a game within a week, go play Guildwars: UOs' appeal is that it is NOT an easily-mastered game.
    Work at UO and it repays your efforts.



    UO does not need a retro shard, for so many reasons...

    Your version of "retro" or my version of "retro", or Freds' version of "retro"?

    How many people do you GUARANTEE will come back to a tweaked version of a rediculously cartoonish 1990s' game? If its' less than 10,000 people who picks up the bill?
    How about EA publicise the cost of setting-up a retro shard... for the sake of argument we'll call it 100K per annum.
    All potential players of this shard have to sign a legally-binding contract to meet the cost of the setup before it is created... so all the "every ex-player will come back for a retro shard" advocates have nothing to fear... you will all get your retro gameplay for less than £10 per annum. On the other hand, if only 100 people sign-up, you get hit for a £1000 bill?



    FWIW, I also play on Siege, which although it is far from a perfect retro shard, is the nearest thing that we currently have from EA.

    There are more players in Europa Trammel than there are in worldwide Siege, which says quite a bit about the popularity of "old-style" rulesets. (based solely on the number of people I see ingame)
     
  12. Nevyn

    Nevyn Guest

    What would happen when a dupe exploit was discovered? There would be endless complaining and it would require man-hours to fix. How about when you get stuck and can't move, and there are no GMs to help you? Or when you're getting griefed by some guy who is spouting anti-semitic remarks? Do they tell new players that come to the server "be aware that we will never develop fixes for this server/client, and if it crashes for some reason it might be some time before someone gets around to fixing it"? Anything that heavily caveated would never attract new players, because they're paying a monthly fee for a product that they will never get support on (and there are other supported products on the market).


    I used to be a large pre-UOR advocate, but the "put them up and forget them" server ideas just don't stand up to scrutiny. I heard a proposal given to Anthony Castoro quite some time ago (by Nieves, for those who may remember him) that they simply sanction people to run their own ruleset servers, where money goes in to EA for licensing. Basically something similar to the emulation scene, except EA sanctioned with a certain toolkit etc. He seemed interested, but it ended up not going anywhere. And that is something that would take less effort and be much more sustainable than a retro ruleset shard.
     
  13. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    I totally agree with what you say about giving new players direction, and having events that create excitement. And yes, my reasoning for a retro shard is to bring back the thousands of players who have left because of this new fluff. We need to maintain the players base as well as develop new content that can be easily and quickly understood by new players.

    One final thought, the lack of direction in the original stages of UO was what totally captivated me. It allowed my creative side to flourish. Now, aside from running my vendors so I can have interaction with players, I just run around and try to get the latest pixel crack.

    Boring.
     
  14. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    A retro shard won't bring in new players though. Will it bring back old players? Maybe, and that wouldn't be a bad thing (assuming that they'll actually stay around... having them come in for a month or two then leave again wouldn't be worth the time or expense).

    I think the unspoken question based on your final thought is... is the issue with UO itself, or some form of inability on your part to make something of the openness provided to you? And I don't mean that as a personal attack, it's a question I have asked myself as well... and basically honestly answered myself that I'm not good at actively trying to recruit people or actually run a guild as guildmaster. So I have a set batch of things I do solo and when events are active, I'll catch a few people and have fun that way. But then I've been a hermit type of personality anyway, so it's fine by me. I've always disagreed that because a game is "massive multiplayer" that you should be FORCED into large groups just to play the game. To me it means that there ar ethousands of people running around in the same world. You may deal with a few, you may deal with a lot (like real life oddly enough... noone claims you are forced to group to do things in real life (well except for the enviro-wackos that want everyone to use public transportation all of the time)).

    Personally, I think what needs to happen is this:

    The New Haven quests need to be more directional. There should be a "pathway" series of quests for some popular and effective templates (a crafter, a melee warrior, a CHiv warrior, an archer, a mage, a Necro, and so on) where based on the players' answers on their interests they are guided to each NPC trainer, then at the end, it is explained how the skill control system works and to test around ideas and so forth.

    Start structured, then loosen it up until you set the character free into the world.
     
  15. DHMagicMan_1

    DHMagicMan_1 Guest

    First off, I think it's a moot point and there would never be a "Retro" or whatever you want to call it shard... but for discussion sake, we can look at the logic of the situation...

    Does anyone anywhere have SOLID Code for both the Server and the Clients that are for the same exact versions and where do they draw the line? Are they going back to "Before the days of Trammel"?

    If they did have the code and were willing to create a server and publish a client, would it TRULY be stagnant and sustainable? Would people stay around if there were no events, no new mobs, fixes, etc? What about Power Scrolls, Tamables, Weapons Mods that came after the "Start Date of the Server"... maybe people (whoever they are) will start polling we want these 17 changes that have happened in the last 10 years but we don't want these other 30 or whatever.

    Even if all of the above would work, there is code for both server and client and somehow there is a business case that a server would be profitable without any development costs etc... what if it's buggy with current operating systems of XP and Vista... or current Video Cards...

    I just don't think it could ever happen.
     
  16. RoseBlue

    RoseBlue Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    0
    They can't!!!


    (in fact, UO being like "real life" in some ways, like in real life, new players need "parents"... ... ...)
     
  17. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    13
    Wow, in all fairness, that just isn't so. GW is easy to learn, and hard to master, especially when the PvP meta is changing constantly. Mastery is an illusion of hubris. As in most games. Just because you can level to 20 (max) in a day, doesn't mean you've mastered the game. The same is true of someone who GMs skills in UO in a week. Useless by itself.

    To the retro shard thing - like I said, retro shards in several flavors already exist, google is your friend. Some do well, some not. It wouldn't be profitable for EA, however, since it wouldn't have a high population, is unlikely to attract new players, is unlikely to attract old players back from their new games and custom shards, and requires way too much extra work for the team, doing everything twice, on game code that's already outdated garbage - and that's the real issue.
     
  18. pavel.vesely

    pavel.vesely Guest

    All this mystery stuff is complete bull****. With new player three days are all you have, if she do not have fun after three days, there will be no experimentation or discoveries, because there is no player.

    On the guides theme, I think that what new player really need is nót technical information presented in current playguide. New players need information how to play, not numbers. For example: if you want to be warrior, you will need way to damage opponents, some defence, way to heal yourself, here is some basic tactics. If you want to be crafter, what items to make to sell to other newbies, what you can sell to other players. All players need to know how to make money and what prices to expect on items. Best presented as short stories, dozen per template.
     
  19. Nevyn

    Nevyn Guest

    Um, if you need to be told to hit stuff with your sword if you want to kill it, I don't think there's anything they can do to help you learn. I mean, some things are just obvious. Every example you gave is just the kind that would be trivial to learn from other players, assuming some sort of community exists. Or to learn via common sense. You hardly need a 200 page guide to learn what a sword is for, or that you need to craft things to get better at crafting things.
     
  20. uoBuoY

    uoBuoY Guest

    I started 8 yrs. ago and was totally, completely overwhelmed by the complexity and lack of direction in UO. Why did I stay on? 2 reasons: I thrive on challlenges and I think I am very resourceful. I had some help from other players but for the most part I figured out things on my own. That's how a new player gets into UO!
     
  21. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    How can new players understand this game?

    - By making it easier to be understood.
    For every complication there needs to be some effort vested in simplification.

    This does not mean dumb the sandbox down; it means making / keeping the sandbox easier / easy for all to manage.
     
  22. Pickaxe Pete

    Pickaxe Pete Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2000
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    34
    As far as basic PvE style gameplay (most beginners start with that in any game), UO is about as simple as it gets, auto-swing, no styles or moves to activate, no levels.

    Things only start getting complicated when someone wants to max out a template. That's crazily complex in any game I've ever played. Ever looked into the DAoC spellcrafting calculators or EQ Magelo database?

    It's all about what people want to accomplish.
     
  23. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    Then trial and error should not be a new concept for you, and that you are posting on a public message board shows that you can communicate.

    These two very easy to understand concepts is exactly how a new player learns to play in game.

    This is how I learned many years ago, and how I learn to play the new content as it comes out.

    Its also what hooked me to play as long as I have. Freedom to choose at what pace and intensity I like to play at is what keeps me here.



    As far as a retro shard goes.. I would not play on it. Been there done that.
     
  24. pavel.vesely

    pavel.vesely Guest

    Many years ago you could not find a place in Britain where you did not have other player (or three) on screen.

    Nowadays, I have talked to two peoples in three months, and I have tryed. Most people ignore you (Trammel) or recall out as soon as you approach them (Felucca).
     
  25. a slave girl

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    111
    rtlfc

    Add some simple rustic road signs in important areas, heading out of towns, or at moongates even, that point out what a new player might find in each direction?

    S (for south) >>> Trinsic >>>26 Miles?

    Maybe a few Warning! Proceed with caution signs in some areas maybe?

    Possibly add some exploration quests based in New Haven that provide a map and a bit of history about the city or special location being visited?

    Use popup advisers (which button to use to attack, how to loot a corspe, etc.) ingame like WoW and Warhammer?

    Both use ! symbols. When you do something important the ! pops up and you can click on it and get advice or go into interface and turn it off if you don't want the assistance.

    Exploring and finding out things for yourself is part of UO's charm so I wouldn't want to go overboard here.
     
  26. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    138
    I remember getting my trial disk by mail I believe, loading it up and pow online! Not ever playing a online game before, I wandered around for a bit and before long I had a nice bow crafting enterprise under way and before I knew it had 200gp in the pack.
    Shortly After, I was killed, thought the game was over and started a new player on a new shard. By then I found out I could type(talk) to others in game and That I could not be Permanently be killed. In two Hours I was skill building and on my way to a very long and fulfilling gaming experience, even to this day. No Instructions no stratics and no friend over the shoulder, Easy as pie!

    Yes there seem to be less players, summer is over and a lot of the kids/adults are busy with school/work again. I believe however if a Interested new player is looking for fun they can easily find it and then some. Still Easy as Pie!
     
  27. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    There are a curious number of "young" players wandering around the last few days ... however, they remind me a lot of the KR testers.

    Gameplay issues that I can see being a problem for new players:
    - limited lore (I really like the sandbox, but I also like a little history to go with it). I might be strange though.
    - resists are not intuitive (there's no visual clue for what kind of damage is being done, just the amount - and only elder tamers can even see what an opponent's resists). I would over-emphasize physical resist in the UI and make it clear in some way what kind of damage is being dealt by creatures.
    - it's very hard, especially at middle skill levels, to test whether a suit/weapon is good or not by trial and error - RNG keeps getting in the way, leading to tendency to develop superstitions over quality of different properties - in some ways, this is good, but it creates a large knowledge barrier between starting and experienced players.
    - communication is little mysterious and UO does not have many graphical emotes that modern games have making them seem a little wooden and unapproachable.
    - menus need to be accessable one-handed (marking quest items, toggling insurance should not require a shift-click)

    Content suggestions:
    - I think New Haven needs a newbie dungeon with a healer standing at the entrance ( until you figure out resists and have a decent weapon, even the first level of the classic dungeons are rough on a true new player, especially given their distance from civilization; it would also allow a place to put in hints to more advanced concepts such as insurance ).
    - pilgrim quests (just go to a series of locations, eg: visit all the towns, visit the virtue shrines of Tram, visit all the classic dungeons) to get people exploring
    - history quest (mini-walkthrough of game-wide events and expansions over the years)
     
  28. You hit the nail on the head with that one...
     
  29. RenaLynne

    RenaLynne Guest

    Number one and two,yes, not so sure about number three anymore...:sad4:
     
  30. Shot

    Shot Guest

    I can remember when I first started. I went to Europa with a group of about 10 people. We had all played together in a MUD for a few years and the leader of our group was a gal who had played UO from the beginning. Of course, she had left before AOS hit, so much of her knowledge was outdated, and then she kind of disappeared.

    Anyway, we struggled along helping each other as best we could. I think the main thing for a new player is to focus. When one asks me what they should do, I ask them a few questions to find out how much they know already about their chosen template and then try to go over the bare basics (No one showed me how to pull a monster's tag until I'd been in game for about 3 months!).

    By doing this, I give them some direction and focus where they can start from. As they interact they will learn more on their own (hopefully).

    One thing I"ve always found frustrating about UO is the seriously messed up help. It's like trying to get help on the Microsoft site! Endless lists of useless FAQ's that I already know the answer too until I finally stumble on the answer I was searching for in the beginning. But then Stratics is OK for filling in where UO help leaves off.

    lately I"ve been going to uoguide.com. It's a wiki, and I've found more up to date info there than I have in stratics. Unfortunately, it too is incomplete.
     
  31. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Congratulations; your scientist training has enabled you to pull a "bait and switch" worthy of a dishonest used air conditioning salesman.

    A "new players" thread turned into the same old, tired "classic shard" thread.

    Do you think new players had an easier time understanding the difference between a "katana of vanquishing" and a "supremely accurate katana of force" versus "an exceptional katana," than they do the difference between "a katana with 45 Damage Increase" and "a katana with 15% hit chance increase and 40% damage increase" and "a katana with 35% damage increase?"

    No you don't, you just wanted to make a classic shard thread.

    -Galen's player
     
  32. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    11
    The game is not accessible to new players. And a different shard wouldn't be a good idea either. There are too many shards already.

    They should improve the game content to make it more accessible, as described here. It is good to have a complex game, but there should be ways for new players to learn it step by step, without doing boring or repetitive tasks.
     
  33. laurlo

    laurlo Guest

    generally I think new players can't.. we don't even have a box with an instruction book.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  34. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    Ouch, that used air conditioning saleman thing hurt! hehe

    Galen, it has only been recently that I have seriously considered the idea that a retro shard was a good idea. Previously I wanted it to happen for my own personal benefit, but lately I'm beggining to see it as a valuable alternative. Let me say that some parts of me like the pixel crack and the new expansions, but this game is now insanely complicated and even I have a hard time remembering all the things that are available to the players. Yes, this is also a good thing, but not for new players. Furthermore, a new player cannot compete with basic GM armor. Now we have 120 scrolls, enhanced weps, enhanced armor with resist max's, enhanced spell books, inumerable other things that are needed to do many of the things that are important to the game.

    Remember when you could just log on, grab your GM armor, your GM wep, and go whack some stuff? Remember the days when you could run into a fight, get killed and simply have to go get some new GM gear to get back in the fight? Remember when you killed someone and you felt like you accomplished something because you could take their GM gear and make them go get more? Remember the days when you reached 100 skill points and you felt a real accomplishment? 100 skill points seemed real. What the heck is 120?

    I started playing this game with about a dozen friends. I'm the only one left, but ALL of them continually ask me if there is any retro shard talk. And as you have been watching these boards for the last several years as I have you have no doubt seen the inordinate amount of posts requesting a retro shard. Why not give it a try?! The code is available as it's used by many player run shards or, at the very least, a company as large as EA would have to be totally ignorant to destroy their own code!

    A retro shard would give UO an opportunity to get some of its' old player base back, and give new players, who cannot commit a large amount of time to online gaming, a chance to enjoy, and be hooked on, this game.

    It sure can't hurt.
     
  35. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    45
    It's not THAT hard.....
     
  36. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    36
    Games tend to gain complexity with time. Tabletop games get more resource books that add extra rules, gear, classes, whatever; like with MMOs, some of these resource will break the game at times (see Pun-Pun the Kobald). Sadly, this does make it more difficult for players unfamiliar with the game.

    That being said, games without a certain amount of complexity have trouble keeping players. I find the complexity adds a lot to the game. I also know that a lot of players ignore the complexity and just play as they want. It is possible to find things to do without the perfect set of armor or perfectly balanced template. My first week playing, I picked up my practice sword and ran out of town (and died to an orc mage). Knowledge of this game came with time. I no longer get lost by the shrine of sacrifice, double click purple potions in town, or any number of things that are part of the complexity of this game.
     
  37. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Create new character. Talk to NPCs. Do quest. Level Up. Grind. Raid. Wear EPICS!!1111oneone1!eleven. Simple as that... oh wait

    I have showed many many people UO while I am playing. All of them basically said "wtf".

    It's just too complicated. :stretcher:
     
  38. Minerva Foxglove

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    311
    This is what we do on Europa:
    We have a very small guild called HLP spending time in Haven almost every evening. Our leader is Lord Paidric and he is a living manual.

    We try to catch all youngs and people that might be fresh and ask them how they are doing. We give all who wants a deacent armour and weapon, full spellbook and some runes in a runebook, one rune is for a rune library.

    Best of all: we mark a rune in Haven and lable it http://haven.uosites.com
    This is a guide for new and returning players with all the basics and more, created by Lord Paidric.

    We also tell them we are around most evenings answering questions and doing free repairs. We are veterans so we are able to point out changes for people that returns after 8-10 years . Also lots of people on the shard with crafters are donating armour pieces etc for us to use. Pieces from runic kits they did not need or loot that we can enhance! We have a chest for donations in a shop and its used all the time.

    Europa players ask us all the time if the youngs still come and if people returns and it feels good the days we can tell they are still coming and we have free shard players coming and some from other shards that come for our role playing plus returning players . It helps ppl to keep the spitit up somehow.:thumbsup:
     
  39. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    Bless you. Seriously.
     
  40. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
    Administrator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,570
    Likes Received:
    1,834
    You know when I can I do the same, but it's not a group of us usually it's just me. I try to answer questions, get them a bit of stuff to start out with, and always a Runebook with cities and a rune to one of the better Run Libraries on Chessy. I also try to get them in touch with one of shard larger guilds, because I know they don't actively seek out new players but help any that ask. Back when I used to keep a separate account for placing houses at IDOC's I'd go and find a nice spot and place a house, and transfer it to the new player Just anything and everything to make sure they had a positive outlook on UO.
     
  41. Belmarduk

    Belmarduk Guest

    This is what makes UO (among a few other games) unique - its steep learning curve. This is what i loved about UO - discovering new things in the game even after years..
    The problem is that NO new players (NEW ones NOT returning players) will touch UO with a 10 meter pole because of its outdated graphics...
    Sad?
    2d-users dont want to hear it?
    Sorry - Fact !
     
  42. Dicimiie

    Dicimiie Guest

    The biggest question I have when I hear "retro shard" is...

    What is your idea of a retro shard? Are we talking pre-Trammel? Are we talking pre-AoS? I for one would love to see a pre-AoS shard, moreso than a pre-Trammel shard.

    As far as the game's learning curve goes, I'm inclined to agree that the game was MUCH simpler to learn when you didn't need to know what 10% DCI meant. It was simpler when youcould run around in normal gear and be just fine. I also enjoyed certain realism aspects that don't occur today. I loved having to go back and find my body after I died to retrieve my belongings. It seemed more logical. I also liked having a maximum of 100.0% is a skill. I didn't really ever grasp what caused them to think you could go above that.