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How does this happen

Discussion in 'UHall' started by startle, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    How is it possible to steal from someone in town and that person NOT turn grey?
     
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  2. Ford Taunus

    Ford Taunus Journeyman
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    I was also attacked on fellucca town area and yelling "Guards" did not help.
     
  3. Moldy Fishmonger

    Moldy Fishmonger Adventurer

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    You do not always flag when you are stolen from. The less the item weighs, the thief's stealing skill and the number of people in the immediate area all factor into the chance of flagging. A 120 skill thief will almost never flag on a very light item.
     
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  4. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    I was under the impression that the act of stealing was an act of aggression - period. And that if you performed an act of aggression you became grey to that person. When did that change?

    Is this something that the new "invasions" have brought to us and should we expect that this change will leave town with them?
     
    #4 startle, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  5. mikni

    mikni Seasoned Veteran
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    I don't remember exactly when but perma grey was removed years ago. And have nothing to do with the curent invasion. You do not go grey every time you steal something. It depends on the weight of the item and the stealing skill level. There is one check made for every npc and player in the vicinity of the victim. So it's easier to stay blue in a sparsely populated area. However with 120 stealing is it far from rare that I go grey while stealing one stone items.
     
  6. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver King of The Bearded Ladies
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    If a thief steals an item with 100% Success rate they don't get flagged, you can attack them though and they will become grey, but you will also be grey to him so if they are a hybrid thief they can kill you.
     
    #6 SoulWeaver, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  7. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I've seen a fair few thiefs in action at the invasions in Felucca cities. Most of them will suddenly turn grey and then you can watch them run off screen quickly. I'd love to hear how many arties a thief manages to steal from this. I insure almost instantly when I get a minor.
     
  8. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    If it's a real concern bag ball off the entrance to a building and kill the thing inside. Watch to see if your BB's move or if you see a shadow jump. Making it slightly hard to get away will insure that the thief moves to a easier target.

    Don't worry about the bag balls, chances of a GM showing up are less than 0 and Messana said it's fine to use so do as you please.
     
    #8 Picus of Napa, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  9. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    It's been this way for years and years.
     
  10. mikni

    mikni Seasoned Veteran
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    This was removed many years ago.
     
  11. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    thief's cant steal over like 10/20 stones so for invasion items that leaves it down to the really small stuff, rings and bracelets and such unless im really off.
    its been a while since i played a thief but as i recall you couldn't take anything in stacks or anything with any real weight to it.
     
  12. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    was just sitting here thinking....

    its been a lot of years since ive played my RP thief but if im not mistaken to steal from another player you have to belong to the thieves guild.
    and if thats the case then you can kill the thief at any time and they cant give you a count, that means even BEFORE they steal from you.
    and im trying to remember but i dont think thieves can call guards either.
    i believe once you join the thieves guild you loose all ability to call guards and you are openly kill-able at any time.
     
  13. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    opps, k i was wrong on this.
    i actually logged in on my thief to check.
    you cant just attack a thief, they can call guards.
    YOU CAN kill a thief and they can not give you a murder count.

    oh, and forget what i said about weight of items, i just checked, all the armor is under 10 stones, so its all steal-able.
    for some reason i thought armor weighed more.
     
  14. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    Thiefs can steal 12 stones at 120 stealing skill.. each 10th skill level is 1 stone...
     
  15. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I have been running around on my steather and looting the dead, you would be surprised at how many are not insuring the items when in fel. I would also like to say that some of these people don't half carry a load of junk around with them while out on a fight, no wonder the items are never insured they cant find them for all the junk they have.
     
  16. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    A thief would have to be really lucky with a light item not to be noticed by the player or NPCs and stay blue. That would mean completely unnoticed.

    Stealing items heavier than one stone has a good chance of being noticed, which would be guard-callable.
     
  17. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    Thieves can steal and not be noticed, hence not flagging or being guard whacked. It depends on item stolen and their skill level. You should simply insure each Minax arty as you get them to avoid any problems.
     
  18. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    For somereason Thieves even if stealing is successful & you're not noticed, (still blue), you still get the criminal message when you try to recall/go through a moongate.
    It's annoying to say the least, especially when you're just stealing refinements...
     
  19. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Refinements shouldn't count, but I'm not certain those can be separated from a general use of the skill. Against, players, however, shouldn't allow a quick escape no matter how unnoticed. We don't need noob thieves stealthing around with just a few recall regs, or using runebooks.
     
  20. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Right, it shouldn't count at all unless you're actually flagged a criminal (grey) otherwise it's just wasting precious time.

    This happens when you steal from shops (containers & npcs), it wouldn't make a difference even if the thieve stole from a player, you can't attack them in guardzone unless they were noticed, and turn grey, otherwise they can just guardwhack you, If they're noticed, they get auto-whacked...

    What can be stolen from players anyway, the new Minax minor arties, 2 seconds after someone gets one? because if a thief steals one from you, and is unnoticed it's not going to make a difference if they can recall or not. if they're not grey, you can't attack them, and if they did get noticed.... they get auto-whacked.

    So.... what's your point?
     
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  21. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    This is part of why I gave up on refinements. I could almost fall asleep waiting.


    I think a thief should turn gray regardless of being noticed, with the lightness of a lifted item determining only whether guards will whack the thief. Actually, if I had my way, guards could always be called. Chalk it up to my contempt for town thieves since before guards returned a stolen item.
     
  22. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Exactly! Thank you Zog.... Stealing is aggression, and like any other aggressive act - it should be noticed as such - exactly the same as an ebolt to the noggin' ...
     
  23. mikni

    mikni Seasoned Veteran
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    Perma gray was removed with Publish 16. Think it's time you people dropped it, thieves have been able to stay blue for a while now. ;)
    The stealing of containers (including bags of sending...) was removed with Age of Shadows.

    The formula for calculating stealing is pretty confusing and can be found here http://uothief.com/faq/8pt1.html

    There are three possible outcomes of a theft;
    Success - and you stay blue
    Success - but you turned gray
    Fail - and you are gray

    Sometimes you go gray right next to an npc and they call guards, some times they don't. I can only assume it has to do with if the "steal check" succeeds with that particular npc.


    Remove the guard whacking, bring back perma gray, make containers stealable again and make forensic evaluation turn thieves gray and attackable. That's changes I'd like to see. Would be more fun if everyone could defend themselves after a theft.
     
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  24. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    I got no problem with that.... Just make them attackable so they just don't get to walk off and snicker at how stupid it is that they can get away with it.... Stealing is aggression, pure and simple. There has to be some price to be paid for an act of aggression. Period.
     
    #24 startle, Nov 5, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  25. mikni

    mikni Seasoned Veteran
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    On the other hand. It is so very easy to not stand in town with valuable stuff on you. Just don't do it and you wont have a problem with the thieves. If that seems too hard there is this thing called Trammel, where standing at the bank with all your stuff in the backpack is considered standard.
     
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  26. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Except for no guard whacking, that sounds good to me. Having played both sides, I thought perma-gray was plenty fair. It's not like a thief couldn't run off and suicide somewhere to remove it. I did, and when I had started yet another account and had free slots, I'd sometimes come back on a noob char with the same name, trying to trick the person into attacking.
     
  27. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    The issue, at least not to me, isn't that thieves can do it, rather that there's no repercussion if the item is light enough and the thief stays blue.
     
  28. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    First of all, I feel your pain. There was a time in this game that thieves had free reign and could steal almost without impunity. Those days are gone and never to return.

    There is a difference between stealing an item or attacking someone to take their life. Stealing is not aggressive towards a person per se, it is a property crime. Taking a club and bashing someone's head is a crime against a person and is aggressive.
     
  29. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Stealing for a few years, though not at the beginning, was "aggressive" within the definition of game mechanics. There was a clear purpose to that: before Trammel, quite a few combat thieves suckered in unsuspecting players by stealing something light and goading the victim into a fight. Combined with the penalty, thieves had to steal and run at first, though they could come back later as perma-gray.