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How Is This Possible? Red Pk'er Inside Luna Bank

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Captn Norrington, Feb 1, 2014.

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  1. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    This is still currently going on, picture taken about 5 minutes ago on Atlantic, picture has not been edited or cropped at all. how is this possible? I have never heard of a red being able to get into a non felucca area.

    Red.png
     
    #1 Captn Norrington, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  2. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    Just think of ways to kill someone while you aren't there
     
    #2 Elden of Baja, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  3. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    photoshop red in luna!
     
  4. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    They received a 5th count after coming back to Luna
     
  5. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    There are various exploits for this.

    -Galen's player
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    There is some way to end up in trammel as a red. I accidentally did that once long time ago. Think it was when I was killing npc vendors in trammel before they changed it or when someone counted me when I was in trammel. Normally, you're supposed to be ejected into fel. For some reason, however, I wasn't. Unfortunately, when it happened to me reds were still getting wacked by guards for simply being in the guard zone :p
     
    #6 Viper09, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  7. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Seeing all those people... Damn I need to move to Atlantic.
     
  8. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I've seen this happen a few times. When I witnessed it the red player looked like they came in the same time as a blue, they kinda just appeared there together at the same time.
     
  9. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    So you can stand afk at Luna bank too?
    :p
     
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  10. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    lol

    Really though if there's that many people just sitting afk there's got to be people to do stuff with
     
  11. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    This happened on GL a few years ago, it is definitely an exploit as it takes concerted effort to pull off. Yes, I know how its done. No, I'm not going to tell you. Yes, the devs know about it.
     
  12. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    But what´s the point in doing it? So they can be paged on and moved back to Fel?
    Or do they think it´s "cool" to be seen as a red in Trammel...?
     
  13. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Since the trammel rules still apply, I except it is just for shock value. Not exactly every day one sees a red player in trammel.
     
  14. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    There's actually more ways than you know about. At least one. Some are fixed, then un-fixed somehow, fixed again, un-fixed again.....

    -Galen's player
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    As to those who consider this harmless, it may well be under most circumstances but my mind keeps going back to a very old incident, during the Savage Empire scenario.

    There was a rumor that wearing savage kin paint (or was it one of the masks? I forget...maybe both together?) could let you PK people in Trammel. The team at the time heard of this on Friday. They appeared to dismiss it. (Their words were something like, "I doubt this one is true, but we'll check Monday.") Then they went home for the weekend.

    Come Monday a fix was announced for the issue that let you PK people in Trammel by using the savage gear.

    UO griefers of all sorts are among the most-determined, dedicated people I'm aware of.

    -Galen's player
     
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  16. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I would hardly call a a pk getting into trammel a griefer. At most they are simply exploiters. There isn't anything special a pk can do there other than what everyone else does on a daily basis.
     
    #16 Viper09, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  17. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    I know of three ways. Two have been supposedly fixed, one has not.

    If they'd exploit to get a red into Trammel just to run around, they'd probably exploit in other ways too. We shouldn't tolerate the behavior. Slippery slope and all.
     
  18. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Depends. If you remember that one guy from that one guild who got banned, along with his counselor friend, shortly after Trammel was opened? Once the red char was teleported to Trammel, he could PK to his heart's content. I suspect the code at that time did the easier check of prohibiting attacks if the player was blue, rather than two checks to allow if the player was green or orange.

    If someone is red or gray outside Fel, perhaps there isn't anything going on, but I would have to wonder.
     
  19. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Never said we should tolerate it, just said that I wouldn't call them griefers...

    Ah, yeah, I remember that bit of chaos. I would hope that code was fixed from that episode :p
     
    #19 Viper09, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  20. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Somebody call Mesanna at home!! This is a SERIOUS problem!! Can u imagine the havoc being reaped at this exact moment!! Red bank sitters!!! I'm about to close all 50 of my accounts!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  21. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    No big deal... happens all the time.
     
  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Not everyone wants to play Siege.

    Indeed all appearances, with the sole exception of posters and moderators on Stratics, suggest that most do not.

    -Galen's player
     
    #22 GalenKnighthawke, Feb 1, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  23. ShameFarmer

    ShameFarmer Journeyman

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    HI-5 is too leet :) #orc
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    As you and I have just discussed privately, at least one of the ways (I have no way of knowing if it's one of your three or not) periodically is un-fixed.

    It is safe to assume that there are multiple methods, indeed I'll wager that all of the methods we know of go through various stages of fix and un-fix.

    -Galen's player
     
  25. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I did not mention Siege. You did. This phenomenon happens more often than ya think.
     
  26. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Who was saying that people should play Siege?
     
  27. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    No one EVER!! I make jokez! ;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  28. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    If this red was able to go out and PK in Trammel, expect to see more of it. I don't know but I bet crossing a server boundary, using a gate, or logging out would expel you from trammie ruleset facets.
     
  29. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    the red can't attack the people in trammel..

    this is simple guys

    the guy was blue.. killed someone, came to luna, then sometime later he got counted and went red. its not like it kicks you right to fel anymore.
     
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  30. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    The explanation may be simple, but don't be so sure he can't attack others (I presume you mean "blues"). The incident I mentioned was one where the Devs didn't consider a possibility, and my concern is that there may be other undiscovered exploits.

    Every so often I check that guild's old house. After almost 14 years, it still stands. It's really too bad. Some of us considered him a friend, but after he was caught...well, a few didn't want anything more to do with him.

    abc.png
     
  31. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    i stumbled upon one of those player towns in fel on ATL a while back, Blackmarsh?
    was checking out the towns stone which was pretty neat.
    thought id go check out some other towns since that one got me in the mood to see more so i dd clicked the town sign to go to the luna fairgrounds where all the towns are set out.
    it wasn't until i got there that i realized i was on my red.
    i probably wasn't as surprised as the other fella standing there when i popped in!
    but fear not, the game twigged onto it and expelled me back to the Chaos Shrine shortly there after.
     
  32. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    Remembering back can't you just say the g word and get em wacked ? or is that a fel thing. id leave him alone but...
     
  33. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Cetric you're still banished to chaos if u get counted while in trammel ruleset..and that count makes you go red


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    That event where reds got into trammel and started pking people seems to be an old and isolated incident (as far as I know). I haven't heard of anyone doing that since and yet exploits that get reds into trammel are still around. Because of that, I would assume that part of the code was fixed to prevent pking in trammel.
     
  35. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Refresh my memory on an "event"? The one I've brought up was that guy with a Counselor friend who teleported him to Trammel.

    As I said, who knows what other loopholes Devs haven't considered. They clearly didn't account for a red being in Trammel, able to attack others. The difference was, I'm certain, code that looked to prohibit an attacker if the target were blue, rather than a check to allow attacking if the target were orange or green. If a red is outside Fel, I wouldn't cry if he got a 72-hour ban for the first offense.
     
  36. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    he cant lol, you cant attack others because you are red, you can attack others ebcause you are in a fel ruleset.. which luna is not.

    derp derp
     
  37. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    That was the one I was referring to.
     
  38. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Azmodanb, people called guards on him many times, nothing happened so I guess it must be a felucca only thing.
     
  39. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Happened to me once. I didn't get teleported to fel for a good 20 minutes or so after going red. No exploit involved or needed. I just got a message saying I was reported for murder and my friend says "umm you're red"
    We both laughed and I ran around a bit thinking if I moved I'd get ported but it did take a while. I guess the server doesn't update on such things constantly.
    This was.... I want to say 7 years ago.
     
  40. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    That's exactly what had happened to me. However, I was in a bit of a pickle. I was on one of the islands in Jhelom where the bulls/cows were (where people trained taming) and had no way of getting out of there without running through the city. At that time, reds got guard wacked for just being in the guard zone. Since I had no boat on me, I tried paging a GM. Luckily, they ported me to the fel chaos shrine, saving my butt from those evil guards.
     
    #40 Viper09, Feb 2, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
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  41. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    I think performing any actions will expell you, cant tell it for certain - But I had it happend too once, and i was just sitting still (got one count while i was in trammel) - once i moved i got expelled.
     
  42. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Mostly this is caused, as many have said, by a late count from a victim. Sometimes as much as 24 hours late. The red is probably sitting there thinking 'erm, oops?'
    On the rare occasion it's and exploit and a group of reds are deliberately running around making a nuisance of themselves think of it as them saying 'Hey look, I can exploit please put a 'watch' on this account.'
     
  43. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I just don't get it, why are all so upset over seeing a red in Trammel. He can't do anything a blue can't. Maybe Felucca would be more used, if reds was allowed to go to facets with Trammel ruleset. Yes they would show red, yes they did kill someone in Felucca and you can kill them for free in Felucca, but in Trammel zone, only the color make them different than any blue.

    The only issue I see, would be if they also was green (guild /alliance) or orange (warring enemy). Right now red color overrule other colors, that would not work in Trammel zone, so the red flaging need to be showing in a different way in Trammel.
    I don't understand why a char is punished in Trammel zone for something he did in Felucca, a facet meant for PvP.

    But on the other hand, I play Siege, so just ignore my input here :)
     
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  44. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    As I have pointed out, a red in Trammel by illegal means was in fact able to attack blues, because the code did not consider that possibility.

    Perhaps you need to read more carefully before replying? So how about you look in the mirror and do your "derp derp" silliness.
     
  45. Spiritless

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    Sorry but I don't recall this ever being the case, and I've been in Tram and Luna with red chars on normal ruleset shards several years back. The code seems to just not take into account the red flag entirely, making everyone technically blue by default. I was never able to attack anyone or do anything a blue cannot. It was the first thing I tried!
     
    #45 Spiritless, Feb 2, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  46. Cupid

    Cupid Sage
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    Can the red be attacked in tram ?
     
  47. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Not necessarily. Please see my replies about when a red went to Trammel in its early days, and the code didn't prevent him from attacking, because the Devs didn't consider that possibility in their code. So I justifiably have the concern that there are undiscovered bugs that would allow a red to attack blues, especially when someone's identified this red as a known exploiter. What if something as simple as animal form makes a person vulnerable?

    When UO:R debuted with the land split, the inability to leave Felucca was a penalty but more so for segregation. I've sometimes wondered if the game has evolved enough that being freely attackable in Fel is sufficient penalty. However, if red characters can leave Fel (appearing blue, green or orange), then they can safely build virtues, participate in non-Fel events, and so on. I would have to say that allowing a red to be safe anywhere is against the spirit of the penalty.
     
  48. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    No


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  49. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    You may not "recall," but it very much did happen with someone I knew. I wasn't there when he went on his Tram PKing spree, but I heard soon enough that he got banned. After 14 years I'm still waiting for his old guildhouse to fall.

    As I keep saying, we can't know what loopholes are undiscovered. There is one guaranteed protection, however: keep reds out of non-Fel facets entirely.
     
  50. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Savage red players in trammy land. Can only ride ridgebacks that have a red lifebar targeting. Only a ridgeback pack can be controled by a red savage tamer in tramlands. They can only wear savage paint and weld a tribe spear. The spear can be imbued and later on a stealth bonus will be worked into savage paint users. Savage casters can only cast 1-4 level spells. One piece of bone armor can be wore that can be mods and enhanced. Also can be worn looted savage mask or deer mask that has been mods and enhanced. No clothing or jewels are allowed for a red to cross over. Death means any rez in tramland teleports them to fel chaos gate due to lacking savage paint at rebirth. Could also not allow red savages to have no insurance use in tramland.

    I would have no problem dealing with red players in tramland. Out of guard zones such a limited geared player should be no issue for tramland life. Sure a pack of 10 might start hunting about as a pack of savages. But what better AI could you ask for from an opponent but a living controller. If your worried about house ganking as you recall home. The get house teleporter and get a lock down at Luna or Fel house to your outback tram house. If there was a castrated pass for a red to go to tram I would go red again for the first time in 8+ years. I know way to many AFK farmers needing a free savage spear ride. Or I'd contract a savage and give them a gate to a location or a boat ride so we could keep the AFKers honest. Hell I would even supply the cannon and load it. I could see savages becoming well known for their deeds of correcting the wrongs of the land. Savage tribes(guilds) earning the respect to pass among the lands without fear of insta attacks.

    If they wont police the game then this could be a method for players to deal out their own justice and police our own lands. Even if someone wanted to use tramland red ability to grief their name would make life real hard. To keep up being a turd they would have to invest into a huge supply of name change tokens. A player under savage red restriction should be no real threat to someone with their head not up their ass. A savage reveal potion could make AFK tamers return to a grey screen. Problem solved or the savage make a wrong call and becomes a GD treat.
     
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