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How long do i have to fight bonded pets on siege?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    When are the devs EVER going to realize that taming on siege with bonding HAS RUINED PVP because it gives every trammie who though they were cool enough for siege a ridiculously overpowered weapon to sit in guardzones and be cheapshots with.

    Like i dont see this stuff on the production shards? only on siege perilous do people run around naked with JUST pets around luna healers and actually get kills and talk [censored] over and over.

    Now there is guilds of almost 1/2 tamers that come to EVERY pvp fight, its like 5 stealth tamers if 3 reds show up.

    MAKE PEOPLE ON SIEGE PERILOUS FIGHT THEIR OWN FIGHTS.

    Here's how

    1. Pet Bonding removed (at least on all animals other than rideables).
    2. Pet Balls restricted to a 20 min timer.
    3. Dismount removed from weapons and restricted to bolas.
    4. Faction bugs fixed.
    5. EA actually giving a damn about what any of us want.

    These ideas come from some of the best reps of siege in this thread on our forum

    http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=3&Number=7604578&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    When are the devs EVER going to realize that taming on siege with bonding HAS RUINED PVP because it gives every trammie who though they were cool enough for siege a ridiculously overpowered weapon to sit in guardzones and be cheapshots with.

    [/ QUOTE ]Sounds like pets &amp; tamers aren't so much the problem as much as guardzones...
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    When are the devs EVER going to realize that taming on siege with bonding HAS RUINED PVP because it gives every trammie who though they were cool enough for siege a ridiculously overpowered weapon to sit in guardzones and be cheapshots with.

    [/ QUOTE ]Sounds like pets &amp; tamers aren't so much the problem as much as guardzones...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    agreed im down with removal of all guardzones from siege perilous along with no private housing
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    1. Pet Bonding removed (at least on all animals other than rideables).
    2. Pet Balls restricted to a 20 min timer.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And this is why I would rather quit UO altogether then come play on a Siege's Shards. Why should they remove bonding of large pets there? You are just asking then to kill off a part of the game that many tamers were very glad to see. I assume you are red there and the tamers in question are using Luna area as a proving grounds to attack you, not the first time I seen this done on product shards with tamers against reds on LS, Sonoma etc. but in Felucca towns there.

    Still you are red because of your game style and the tamers in question have found a way to deal with your skills in PvP with little lost of items there, *claps*. Congrats to them I say.

    As for dismount move from weapons, then I say lets also remove disarm moves from weapons as well, only those with wrestling should be able to disarm since they are not carrying a weapon, [hand free to grab yours].
     
  5. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    As for dismount move from weapons, then I say lets also remove disarm moves from weapons as well, only those with wrestling should be able to disarm since they are not carrying a weapon, [hand free to grab yours].

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The only weapon that needs to be looked at is the heavy xbow. All other dismount weapons are just fine and require you to be on foot and in melee range to use.

    Disarming with a weapon is also realistic, but I would be fine making a free hand a requirement across the board. Either that or make it a 50/50 chance if you don't have a free hand and a 80/20 chance if you do. Having a free hand to grab an arm is not the only way to disarm someone holding a weapon, but it certainly helps to be more consistent if you do
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You don't PLAY siege.

    In this arguement you're the man with no arms in a one handed knife fight.

    A pet is a weapon.

    On siege you choose one item to siege bless.

    Tamers already have a "blessed" weapon (their pet).

    Its not BALANCED for SIEGE'S RULESET.

    At the VERY least a tamer should have to choose between a bonded pet and a siege blessed item.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    1. Pet Bonding removed (at least on all animals other than rideables).
    2. Pet Balls restricted to a 20 min timer.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And this is why I would rather quit UO altogether then come play on a Siege's Shards. Why should they remove bonding of large pets there? You are just asking then to kill off a part of the game that many tamers were very glad to see. I assume you are red there and the tamers in question are using Luna area as a proving grounds to attack you, not the first time I seen this done on product shards with tamers against reds on LS, Sonoma etc. but in Felucca towns there.

    Still you are red because of your game style and the tamers in question have found a way to deal with your skills in PvP with little lost of items there, *claps*. Congrats to them I say.

    As for dismount move from weapons, then I say lets also remove disarm moves from weapons as well, only those with wrestling should be able to disarm since they are not carrying a weapon, [hand free to grab yours].

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OBVIOUSLY you do not play siege, so why are you trying to go against what players on this shard feel would be a GREAT change?

    Tamers are just OVERPOWERED because it lets 1 naked person have 3 AWESOME blessed things, 1 rune beetle, 1 mare, and 1 blessed item usally an uber weapon.

    The point being, tamers would be FINE if they only had 1 uber bonded pet that required their siege bless option in order to be bonded.

    Also I know i cant stop you myself but i figure asking can't hurt.
    IF YOU DONT PLAY SIEGE PLEASE DONT ARGUE AGAINST OUR IDEAS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU'VE PLAYED HERE FOR YEARS WHERE WE ARE COMING FROM
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Even though I'm just a Siege dabbler (and a non-gz-hugging tamer on Siege to boot!) and I fail to meet your "played Siege for years" criteria, I do understand your passion &amp; your frustration, GoodGuy.

    The problem with removing pet bonding on Siege for me is:- What if the alternative to bonded pets on Siege was unlimited pet follower slots as it was once upon a time?

    Whether you elect to fight or flee, against me and two or even three bonded pets, you &amp; anyone worth their salt has a chance, at least.

    Against me and the 3-5 unbonded beetles, 6-8 unbonded bakes, and as many multiples of 5 (for pack instinct) unbonded hell hounds as I could gather in a good taming session (a lot by the way), your odds drop dramatically.

    Truthfully? I don't have a desire for seeing disposable pets anymore than you'd hope I could wield unlimited numbers of them against you.

    I'm on record as having long been a proponent of tweaking both pet summoning balls and the auto-logging/auto-stabling of pets when they are flagged as aggressor/in the heat of battle.

    Non-Siege specific, I also figure if someone logs to save or retrieve their pets, then those pets should actually go IN the stable, not appear by their side when the tamer logs back in again. This has the effect of removing those pets from the battle. On Siege it's a gate or a long run back to the stables to claim them again. What are your thoughts?

    I'm also in favour of some adjustments to the pet summoning balls, though as others often point out since pet AI is pretty lacking in the "I" (intelligence) bit of the abbreviation, often it's all we have to work around that supremely sucky pet AI.

    Sadly, there will always be gimps and gimplates. Unfortunately, one of this season's gimplates of choice happens to be gz-dancing tamers.

    Remove the security blanket of the gz's on Siege and I deeply suspect you'll drastically reduce their numbers.
     
  9. If i remember correctly, it was the PK who encouraged tamers to train to PvP by preying on them.

    As for GZ and private housing, I've pointed out before that with out these you lose crafters and suppliers. Do you seriously want to play with only store bought/monster loot armor and potions?

    The bugs with the GZ definately need to be fixed.
     
  10. Jason619

    Jason619 Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    When are the devs EVER going to realize that taming on siege with bonding HAS RUINED PVP because it gives every trammie who though they were cool enough for siege a ridiculously overpowered weapon to sit in guardzones and be cheapshots with.

    Like i dont see this stuff on the production shards? only on siege perilous do people run around naked with JUST pets around luna healers and actually get kills and talk [censored] over and over.

    Now there is guilds of almost 1/2 tamers that come to EVERY pvp fight, its like 5 stealth tamers if 3 reds show up.

    MAKE PEOPLE ON SIEGE PERILOUS FIGHT THEIR OWN FIGHTS.

    Here's how

    1. Pet Bonding removed (at least on all animals other than rideables).
    2. Pet Balls restricted to a 20 min timer.
    3. Dismount removed from weapons and restricted to bolas.
    4. Faction bugs fixed.
    5. EA actually giving a damn about what any of us want.

    These ideas come from some of the best reps of siege in this thread on our forum

    http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=3&amp;Number=7604578&amp;page=0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=7&amp;fpart=1

    [/ QUOTE ]

    x2
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I disagree Pets should stay bonded. I Do play siege not everyday but maby 1-3x a week. I do not run a tamer temp Just an ol' fashion Nox mage. You have killed me a few times in glo [​IMG] ur not a goodguy :p. I do feel that Summon balls need to be removed and dismounts need to be looked at tho.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    You don't PLAY siege.

    In this arguement you're the man with no arms in a one handed knife fight.

    A pet is a weapon.

    On siege you choose one item to siege bless.

    Tamers already have a "blessed" weapon (their pet).

    Its not BALANCED for SIEGE'S RULESET.

    At the VERY least a tamer should have to choose between a bonded pet and a siege blessed item.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You know why I don't play Siege? The main reason is one house, one shard rule. Used to play on Several shards in the days when we were allowed to own homes across several shards. BTW here is the template of my char on Siege.

    Archery 110.0 110.0
    Anatomy 101.2 100.2
    Healing 100.0 100.0
    Tactics 100.0 100.0
    Meditation 96.9 96.9
    Magic Resistance 86.5 86.5
    Hiding 68.4 68.4
    Magery 56.4 56.4

    Str 102 95 (+7)
    Dex 95 95
    Int 40 40

    As for the one bless item that ALL Siege chars have, I see no reason why tamers have to be nerfed again and lose the pet ball because they smart enough to adjust to PVP and fight naked. Sounds to me like they got your goat because you have no loot when you kill them, BTW when they dead they cannot hurt you, so why stick around to fight them when they res up? I sure like to see Some Siege's Tamers reply to this here at UO Hall. Maybe you can invite them over?
     
  13. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

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    I don't play siege.. and I agree with you.. and see your point. But I think tamibles should not get such a skill loss or something on taming; since you can't bond them.

    But I dunno. But I can definitely see how bonded pets are a problem there.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm all for pets being stable if the tamer crashed/log outs. Then they have to use the pet ball to summon or take a trip to the stables to claim the pet.

    I'm not for seeing tamers nerfed every time a PvP crys about how tamers are winning. Seems to me the tamers are just getting smarter and adjusting to the PvPers. What the PvPers need to do is also adjust, if they so tired of these naked tamers and pet ball summons then fight in areas away from healers so tamers cannot get an instant resing and summon pet to attack.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    You don't PLAY siege.

    In this arguement you're the man with no arms in a one handed knife fight.

    A pet is a weapon.

    On siege you choose one item to siege bless.

    Tamers already have a "blessed" weapon (their pet).

    Its not BALANCED for SIEGE'S RULESET.

    At the VERY least a tamer should have to choose between a bonded pet and a siege blessed item.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You know why I don't play Siege? The main reason is one house, one shard rule. Used to play on Several shards in the days when we were allowed to own homes across several shards. BTW here is the template of my char on Siege.

    Archery 110.0 110.0
    Anatomy 101.2 100.2
    Healing 100.0 100.0
    Tactics 100.0 100.0
    Meditation 96.9 96.9
    Magic Resistance 86.5 86.5
    Hiding 68.4 68.4
    Magery 56.4 56.4

    Str 102 95 (+7)
    Dex 95 95
    Int 40 40

    As for the one bless item that ALL Siege chars have, I see no reason why tamers have to be nerfed again and lose the pet ball because they smart enough to adjust to PVP and fight naked. Sounds to me like they got your goat because you have no loot when you kill them, BTW when they dead they cannot hurt you, so why stick around to fight them when they res up? I sure like to see Some Siege's Tamers reply to this here at UO Hall. Maybe you can invite them over?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    You do realize that some Siege tamers run around with Archery and/or bolas with ninja, hiding, and stealth, right?

    More like the tamers can kill well-equipped people and get free loot while being naked.

    Their PET is their number 1 weapon. Why should they get a free bless while mages and dexers have to bless their weapon or ring?

    *shrugs*
     
  16. bordegan

    bordegan Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    When are the devs EVER going to realize that taming on siege with bonding HAS RUINED PVP because it gives every trammie who though they were cool enough for siege a ridiculously overpowered weapon to sit in guardzones and be cheapshots with.

    Like i dont see this stuff on the production shards? only on siege perilous do people run around naked with JUST pets around luna healers and actually get kills and talk [censored] over and over.

    Now there is guilds of almost 1/2 tamers that come to EVERY pvp fight, its like 5 stealth tamers if 3 reds show up.

    MAKE PEOPLE ON SIEGE PERILOUS FIGHT THEIR OWN FIGHTS.

    Here's how

    1. Pet Bonding removed (at least on all animals other than rideables).
    2. Pet Balls restricted to a 20 min timer.
    3. Dismount removed from weapons and restricted to bolas.
    4. Faction bugs fixed.
    5. EA actually giving a damn about what any of us want.

    These ideas come from some of the best reps of siege in this thread on our forum

    http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=3&amp;Number=7604578&amp;page=0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=7&amp;fpart=1

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree with the removal of bonding on siege.
     
  17. kulssin

    kulssin Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    When are the devs EVER going to realize that taming on siege with bonding HAS RUINED PVP

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Forever.

    Before EA admitted that they lied and that Mythic was taking over, they stated very clearly that PvP issues were on the "back burners" indefinitely.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I'm all for pets being stable if the tamer crashed/log outs. Then they have to use the pet ball to summon or take a trip to the stables to claim the pet.

    I'm not for seeing tamers nerfed every time a PvP crys about how tamers are winning. Seems to me the tamers are just getting smarter and adjusting to the PvPers. What the PvPers need to do is also adjust, if they so tired of these naked tamers and pet ball summons then fight in areas away from healers so tamers cannot get an instant resing and summon pet to attack.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    the tamers aren't getting smarter, it just gets easier and easier every new expansion to play a gimp template.

    Now that tamers have ninjitsu with smoke bombs and the ability to log in/out to instantly warp pets to them most tamers pets NEVER die in pvp. They attempt to kill you out of complete hiding by pet balling in uber pets, then if they dont kill you and you start to try and kill the pets the tamer just stealths off a few screens and logs out which makes pets disappear, its some bogus tactics ALL DAY EVERYDAY.

    OHH and i WISH i could lure blue tamers far enough away from guardzones so theat they dont have instant access to healers, except SIEGE ALSO HAS INSTANT REZ.

    So tamers can have up to 3 rezzes and if they are stealthers if usally takes only 1 rez and then instant hide, grab body, and run off with nothing lost.
     
  19. hmmm
    soooooo
    Its really easy to train up a high end tamer on siege?

    whoda thunk it

    and that "instant" log out/in ....
    mmmmm

    oh ... btw ... you talking about
    more than 5
    or
    more than 50
    Stealth Tamers pwnzering the entire shard?
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I sure like to see Some Siege's Tamers reply to this here at UO Hall. Maybe you can invite them over?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    *waves* [​IMG]

    Stealth tamer to boot. Pets are a problem and should be changed. Removal of bonding isn't the right choice imo.

    One change that would be good would give summoning balls casting time = to summoning ethereal mount.

    Pet speed drop, pvp damage reduction, shortened casting distance, all options as well.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thing is people are thinking more from a production shard set up in this matter. When you have a gm barbed suit, and someone bolas you, summons a beetle, and sicks it on you. Well thats trouble, requires no skill, and aside from running with music and peach which is not an option theres no real way to combat it. And thats JUST considering the pet coming at you, disregarding what the players controlling the pets may be doing to kill you.

    When you have more than one person doing it, then you are dead.

    Taming is easy to gm/legendary, and yes it is a big issue, and its not just in luna. Its anywhere.

    And again I AM a tamer, and a stealth tamer, and while I don't pvp much with pets, I can see both taming and stealth are causing big pvp problems on our shard, and I can see solutions that wouldn't effect pvm a notch.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    You do realize that some Siege tamers run around with Archery and/or bolas with ninja, hiding, and stealth, right?

    More like the tamers can kill well-equipped people and get free loot while being naked.

    Their PET is their number 1 weapon. Why should they get a free bless while mages and dexers have to bless their weapon or ring?

    *shrugs*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ya I also run with a couple bolas on Siege, very useful.

    BTW here another template of a mage I have access to on Siege

    <blockquote><hr>

    Evaluating Intelligence 105.0 105.0
    Magery 105.0 105.0
    Meditation 105.0 105.0
    Hiding 77.1 77.1
    Inscription 60.7 60.7
    Stealth 56.0 56.0
    Magic Resistance 53.5 53.5
    Spirit Speak 43.9 43.9
    Healing 39.4 39.4
    Wrestling 34.6 34.6
    Tracking 20.2 20.2

    Str 102 99 (+3)
    Dex 34 34
    Int 100 97 (+3)


    [/ QUOTE ]

    If Siege tamers are such a problem for you normal PvPers I would suggest moving to a product shard [​IMG] I never train up a tamer on Siege as I could not fine the time to train as I did on LS and Sonoma. But I have played a tamer for a very long time and feel I know what the hell I am talking about. All I have seen here is a cry to nerf the Dang Tamers once more.
     
  23. In my opinion, tamers are overpowered in PvM and PvP, but on Siege, people are only talking about balancing them for PvP. If your main playstyle is PvM, relax!

    It is hard to make the argument that a fully trained rune beetle is balanced in PvP. It can reduce your resists to half, bleed you, poison you, cast multiple spells all at once whether you are on screen or not. You really can't argue that it balanced for PvP.

    On Siege, combine that with stealthers who are pretty much impossible to reveal. I don't know if you understand this but on Siege, stealth is pretty much invincible mode. There is no passive reveal. I repeat, there is no passive reveal. To see a stealther, you have to actively reveal them. However, they can hide again faster than your reveal timer resets. Additionally, there is no delay between hiding and stealth so they can hide and start moving instantly. Oh, and damage doesn't always reveal them either.

    So, now you have tamers with overpowered pets who can't be seen or revealed.

    Now, combine that with dismount. You have dismounters. They are hidden. They can't be seen or revealed reliably. One of them dismounts you. Hidden tamer summons pets. You are already at half life from the dismount. Pets finish you.

    It works every time.

    It is my opinion that above all else, hiding and stealth is the problem. The tamers are overpowered, but if I can see them, that REALLY helps. The dismount is overpowered, but if I can see them, that REALLY helps.

    There needs to be a delay between the hide and the stealth so that when someone hides right in front of you, you can throw the conflag or cast the earthquake before they move half a screen away.

    There needs to be an easier way to reveal hiders. It just isn't realistic on a shard where you only get one character to constantly have 2 or 3 detectors in a group.

    Yes, tamers are overpowered. Pet specials not working at all against players would be a great start. Pet damage halved against players would be a great start.

    Combine that with some changes to hiding, and perhaps add an HCI penalty to dismount from the heavy and at least we could break the cycle we have been stuck in since last year.

    People are tired of it.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No need to destroy the entire taming and pet system, which encompasses a whole lot more than pets used in PvP.

    I don't know why they can't just scale pet attack power, and abilities towards player max HP &amp; stats, when the pet is used in PvP, then most of these problems would go away. Tamers wouldn't have ridiculous restrictions imposed against them nor would they lose essentially all their defensive capability in PvP situations that their pets can provide, like some of these suggestions would create. The result is the tamer would need to be very actively involved in the battle to be effective because the pet then becomes just like any other decent to great weapon one can obtain in the game.

    -Skylark
     
  25. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    <blockquote><hr>

    A pet is a weapon.

    On siege you choose one item to siege bless.

    Tamers already have a "blessed" weapon (their pet).

    Its not BALANCED for SIEGE'S RULESET.

    At the VERY least a tamer should have to choose between a bonded pet and a siege blessed item.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I've been saying this for months now. On Siege a bonded pet should count as your Siege blessed item. I think that would go a long way towards evening out the playing field there. On other shards pvp tamers are not a problem, but on Siege they definitely are. What I am afraid is that because pvp tamers are such a problem on Siege, they are going to get nerfed on all shards, which would simply be unfair. Pvp tamers are hard enough to play on production shards as it is, any more nerfing would pretty much make them unplayable (at least this would be the case for "pure" tamers - and yes I realize there is no such thing as a "pure" template in UO, but I am talking about templates where the pets are the primary damage dealers, and not an add to other forms of damage dealing).

    But on Siege they are definitely a problem and what has been posted here is exactly right. A bonded pet is a very powerful blessed weapon. I don't think pet balls are the problem, or auto stable, or even dismounting, the problem is that tamers can have up to five free blessed weapons (if they run a pack), which is simply unfair. Make a bonded pet count as the Siege blessed item...
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well the one way to make everyone happy on Siege is remove, all bless items, wait they did that, ok next remove the one bless item from all Siege people, remove all bonding and take Siege back to the days before that happen. That way you all can go back to no bless items except for the clothing on your back and no bonded pets, also remove all enty (Bless item you have I bet) mounts so you all have to get normal horses, cannot have you riding one and a newb to Siege is stuck on a normal horse. Also make mounting horses and other pets like mounting the enty mounts. That way everyone has the delay in getting back on mounts when they dismount or get dismounted.

    There everyone is happy now on Siege! And I'm still not sure why this thread was not moved to the Rant section when the first post came out.
     
  27. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    RTLFC

    i dont know why everyone is complaining about bonded pets when clearly the problem is with SMOKE BOMBS AND PET BALLS??

    nerf these two items and tamers will be "balanced"

    NO PET BALL OR INSTA HIDE BYE BYE PVP TAMER!
     
  28. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    I've said this before as well, if you remove or significantly nerf pet balls, you completely destroy the viability of pets in pvp. Due to stupid AI pets are too easy to pull off and destroy. Pet balls at least give tamers a chance to control their pets. However, if you were to get rid of skill decay in pets, improve the pet chase AI so they don't get stuck on the corners of buildings and other obstacles, and get rid of auto defend, I would gladly sacrifice pet balls.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    There everyone is happy now on Siege! And I'm still not sure why this thread was not moved to the Rant section when the first post came out.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't understand what your getting so hot about. You act like because we had one of our issues fixed that we no longer have a right to have problems, and that coming here to post about them in the vain hope that someone who does the coding might see them is like some kind of offense.

    Everyone from siege that has posted here agrees with goodguy, that there is a problem anyway, I don't see why you, someone who doesn't even play the shard anymore cares about our issues so much that you'll get all mad about it.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    i dont know why everyone is complaining about bonded pets when clearly the problem is with SMOKE BOMBS AND PET BALLS??


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I complained about pet balls, so did someone else.
     
  31. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    <blockquote><hr>

    i dont know why everyone is complaining about bonded pets when clearly the problem is with SMOKE BOMBS AND PET BALLS??

    [/ QUOTE ]
    The problem is bonded pets. If you can kill an unbonded pet, it stays dead, and any time put into training it is gone, as well as any time put into farming for a decent pet. If you make bonded pets count as the Siege blessed items you reduce not only the quality of pets you will be facing, by limiting it to one good quality pet, but also you reduce the quality of the tamer's gear because he/she no longer has a blessed item, or you force the tamer to choose between an item and a pet. Making the bonded pet count as the Siege blessed item might not fix all the problems with pets and pvp on Siege, but it would be a very good place to start.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Taming is easy to gm/legendary

    [/ QUOTE ]
    You claim you play a tamer and you know what you are talking about, but you clearly do not. Taming is one of the most time consuming skills to train, if not the most time consuming.
     
  32. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    The problem is bonded pets. If you can kill an unbonded pet, it stays dead, and any time put into training it is gone, as well as any time put into farming for a decent pet. If you make bonded pets count as the Siege blessed items you reduce not only the quality of pets you will be facing, by limiting it to one good quality pet, but also you reduce the quality of the tamer's gear because he/she no longer has a blessed item, or you force the tamer to choose between an item and a pet. Making the bonded pet count as the Siege blessed item might not fix all the problems with pets and pvp on Siege, but it would be a very good place to start.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    bonded pets is not the core of the problem smoke bombs and pet balls are.

    i dont know how making you use your one bless item on pet will do anything
    cause all people will do is use the bless on a beetle and use throw away mares
    kill the mare? so what? stealth tamers can go into ninja forms and still chase people down with petballs,and still poof just invis as soon as they hit the smoke bomb macro when in any kind of trouble........

    like i said in above post BONDED PETS ARE NOT THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM! take away smoke bombs,nerf pet balls and you have a fix!
    smoke bombs remind me of the recalling days as soon as you get into any trouble NP! just hit recall button!(or in this case the smoke bomb button)
     
  33. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    but also you reduce the quality of the tamer's gear because he/she no longer has a blessed item, or you force the tamer to choose between an item and a pet.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    on my stealth tamer I DONT NEED ANYTHING BLESSED! JUSTED GM ARMOUR! with only that,petballs,smokebombs,pots,gheal wand,all of which is EASILY obtained for throwaway use and kill most pvpers.......
     
  34. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    <blockquote><hr>

    like i said in above post BONDED PETS ARE NOT THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM! take away smoke bombs,nerf pet balls and you have a fix!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    You are wrong. The problem isn't smoke bombs or pet balls, the problem is that due to the differences in the rules set, tamers are overpowered on Siege. If you nerf pet balls, it affects all of the other shards where tamers are not overpowered in pvp, and are not a problem, if you nerf smoke bombs, you nerf the ninja class, which as far as I know, is also not overpowered. If you make bonded pets count as the Siege blessed item, you weaken tamers on Siege, without making them impossible to play in pvp on every other shard.
     
  35. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    I've said this before as well, if you remove or significantly nerf pet balls, you completely destroy the viability of pets in pvp.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Isnt this why we are having this discussion?? is to reduce pets in pvp??
     
  36. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    If you make bonded pets count as the Siege blessed item, you weaken tamers on Siege, without making them impossible to play in pvp on every other shard.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    obviously you havent read my post,by doing this it absoulutly has no affect on seige AT ALL......
     
  37. I could see an adjustment to petballs in two main ways.

    1. Put a casting delay on them like summoning an ethy

    2. Put a use timer on them like enchanted apples

    The problem with the first is that using a petball is a great way to summon a pet after being dismounted. I don't really want to end up dismounted for the one billionth time and find out that I have to stand there frozen and die while summoning my pet.

    The second seems like a better solution to me. I don't mind someone using a petball once. I do mind someone dismounting me, then chasing me down spamming their petball. A two minute timer would be too long, but a 6-8 second timer ought to be fine.

    I do think hiding/stealth/smokebombs are a bigger issue though. If I can see the tamer and the dismounter, I can avoid them. If I can see them, I can kill them. It's the hidden tamers and dismounters that can't be avoided or killed that equal certain death.
     
  38. Jaimes

    Jaimes Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Taming is one of the most time consuming skills to train, if not the most time consuming.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Come again?

    Because of ROT, every skill on Siege takes exactly the same amount of time to train. By no means is it hard, it's just long, like any other skill.
     
  39. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    <blockquote><hr>

    I've said this before as well, if you remove or significantly nerf pet balls, you completely destroy the viability of pets in pvp.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Isnt this why we are having this discussion?? is to reduce pets in pvp??

    [/ QUOTE ]
    So your real agenda is the same as it is for a lot of the pvp'rs who think theirs is the only template that should be allowed to pvp at all, to remove tamers from pvp period, because they don't belong in your 733t little club. From your perspective we aren't talking about balance or fairness, we're talking about complete annihilation. Thanks for making that clear.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Taming is easy to gm/legendary
    <blockquote><hr>

    Taming is one of the most time consuming skills to train, if not the most time consuming.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Come again?

    Because of ROT, every skill on Siege takes exactly the same amount of time to train. By no means is it hard, it's just long, like any other skill.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    If all you are saying is that it is easy to gm/legendary any skill on Siege, which is the only other possible interpretation of what he said, then his comment makes no sense. Activities aren't always difficult because you have to bench press 400kg to do it, or have four phd's, sometimes things are difficult simply because the of the amount of time and patience required, so in that sense, every skill on Siege is difficult to train, which makes what he said equally untrue and nonsensical. But you are right, I was specifically thinking of standard shards when I made that comment.
     
  40. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    So your real agenda is the same as it is for a lot of the pvp'rs who think theirs is the only template that should be allowed to pvp at all, to remove tamers from pvp period, because they don't belong in your 733t little club. From your perspective we aren't talking about balance or fairness, we're talking about complete annihilation. Thanks for making that clear.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Again you dont have a clue about what your talking about..

    1) IF you took a little time and read my post you can see that i play a stealth tamer sometimes also.

    2) IF i really thought my template is the only template that belongs in pvp you are again dead wrong or else id include dexters in this discussion cause i play a mage also.....

    P.S next time try reading first cupcake....
     
  41. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    From your perspective we aren't talking about balance or fairness, we're talking about complete annihilation. Thanks for making that clear.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    How can you say that by nerfing the petball and smoke bomb will annihilate tamers in pvp? Have you ever heard of mage tamer? or the dexter tamer? theres plenty of other templates with taming and they do fine in pvp ITS CLEARLY THE STEALTH TAMER that everyone has a problem with because you cant kill them cause they just smoke bomb away....

    To be honest with you i dont even have a problem with stealth its the smoke bomb that is the problem ,because without the ablilty to smoke bomb away under any circumstances ,the stealth tamer actually has a chance to be killed...
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    so where the heck are the devs? SOMEONE COMMENT DAMM IT!
     
  43. <blockquote><hr>


    1. Pet Bonding removed (at least on all animals other than rideables).
    2. Pet Balls restricted to a 20 min timer.
    3. Dismount removed from weapons and restricted to bolas.
    4. Faction bugs fixed.
    5. EA actually giving a damn about what any of us want.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree with all of 'em. No idea why though. [​IMG]

    Seriously devs, we need to get these issues fixed on Siege. Players are filing out the door because they're tired of fighting these cheap templates.

    Siege is supposed to be a veteran shard, not one where a new player can GM his skills, get 2 pets, and dominate everybody. How about we give some dedicated time and effort to cleaning up *all* the issues on Siege rather than putting a band-aid here or there when you feel like it?

    Fix factions while you're at it. Don't waste your time creating a new expansion none of us are going to buy until you fix the game.
     
  44. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    <blockquote><hr>

    So your real agenda is the same as it is for a lot of the pvp'rs who think theirs is the only template that should be allowed to pvp at all, to remove tamers from pvp period, because they don't belong in your 733t little club. From your perspective we aren't talking about balance or fairness, we're talking about complete annihilation. Thanks for making that clear.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Again you dont have a clue about what your talking about..

    1) IF you took a little time and read my post you can see that i play a stealth tamer sometimes also...

    P.S next time try reading first cupcake....

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I did read your posts, including the following... cupcake...
    <blockquote><hr>

    NO PET BALL OR INSTA HIDE BYE BYE PVP TAMER!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    There are many who dabble in character templates they know nothing about and care even less for.

    <blockquote><hr>

    2) IF i really thought my template is the only template that belongs in pvp you are again dead wrong or else id include dexters in this discussion cause i play a mage also.....

    [/ QUOTE ]
    A bit of creative hyperbole on my part. In general the tamer haters think that tamers don't belong in pvp, period. They enjoy their little club of mages, dexxers and archers, and tamers don't belong.
     
  45. k this is just a general comment to everyone. something needs to be done about pets in pvp. and stealth and smoke bombs. on a side note how does flagging on someone hidden to dismount them not reveal you? i get the message"xnoto dismount tamer is attacking you" i then am dismounted see "all kill" and the person disappears while i get chewed by two pets and have no target to fight(meaning the player) and have no choice but to run away if im lucky. all this has basically been said. I

    think the point we need to make is WHY the change needs to be made. most of you dont understand this because you have insurence on the other shards so pks love tamers they get just as much money every time they kill the tamer because of insurence. they also have passive detect which makes stealth almost usless.
    k so heres what happens on seige that makes us all so mad

    naked tamer comes up and i kill easily. and again and again and again (no problem so far but this is starting to get like that fly that wont leave you alone)

    i kill x noto tamer 9 times but on that 10th time he finaly gets me and im dead. this tamer has no skill and is not a challenge at all BUT if you have a beatle and a mare and some bolas you will eventually kill any other player in the game.

    now to bring it all together. pvp is fun when there is a challange and a risk and reward. as a dexxor i have to have good armor good jewels necro regs and pots to be competative and even if i lose this it is not too hard to replace most of the items it is the only way i can be competative.

    soooo i risk everything and have no chance of reward when fighting these tamers. it is hopless it is simply a bother and destroys the fun we come to have and the skills and timing we work for that makes pvp so great.

    pvp is the most fun when to equally matched players or groups fight and the one with superor skill wins. this is what we want we want the best man to win. not the guy that has no skill but uses the law of averages to get lucky.

    away with that crap!
     
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If all you are saying is that it is easy to gm/legendary any skill on Siege, which is the only other possible interpretation of what he said, then his comment makes no sense. Activities aren't always difficult because you have to bench press 400kg to do it, or have four phd's, sometimes things are difficult simply because the of the amount of time and patience required, so in that sense, every skill on Siege is difficult to train, which makes what he said equally untrue and nonsensical. But you are right, I was specifically thinking of standard shards when I made that comment.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I was talking about siege because pets in pvp on siege is what this thread is about. I meant that its easy in comparison to every other skill on siege past 70, as they all take the same ammount of time, because with rot, once your time is up all you have to do is use the skill and your more or less automatically gain. I am a tamer on siege and I have been taming since october 1998.

    Maybe it takes a longer time to get to 70 than others skills, but not that much, cause its just not THAT hard or time consuming to get any skill to 70. Poisoning is far more annoying than taming to get to 70, and with taming if you use skill jewels cleverly its not that bad at all.

    My statement seems to make perfect sense to me.
     
  47. every one keeps dissing poison it is way easy now that you can gain by using the infectious strike i think you all trained it before that change now you poison a wep get 18 check to the skill off one pot(for lesser) takes like less than 1 keg of each to gm these days if you do it right (maybe a couple lessers to start)
     
  48. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh I was unaware of that! As such I take back my statment. [​IMG]
     
  49. Al Thorin

    Al Thorin Guest

    Actually, realizing the power potential difference between siege and production, removing pet bonding (but still permiting pet balls on unbonded pets) actualy sounds like a good solution to me.

    I know I don't play Siege, but with the -serious- powder quest nerf, I can't see abuse of petballs being maintained.

    It's that, or nerf the pet strength, but that relates to a PVM nerf as well.
     
  50. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I for one will always be against removal of pet bonding. The reason is that there are plenty of solutions to the taming in pvp problem that have no effect on pvm, and non pvp players at all.
    Some people have emotional attachments to thier pets, and even though siege is considered the "pvp" server many of us don't pvp, and theres no reason to punish those people when there are any number of other viable solutions.

    And I don't think pets shouldn't be used in pvp at all, but as it is its just too much of an easy advantage in this kind of setting and should be looked at.