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[Tactics] How much HLD is enough

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by TimberWolf, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    is the 30 you get from Mace and shield glasses enough or do I want some on a weapon as well.
    It seems to me that once it goes off, then it will keep the target at decreased dci until it dies...is that how others see it as well...talking pvm here mostly, but would be interested in an answer about pvp too
     
  2. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    For normal PVM, I'd say 30 is plenty - maybe even 0 is plenty, since you only need to hit most things a few times (takes me 10-11 hits for a greater dragon). Where it really matters is for the bigger, badder things.

    Try killing one of the masters in blackthorns dungeon without HLD.

    Per UO Guide, HLD does not stack between items, so 30 on glasses and 50 on weapon != 80 HLD, but uses the binomial probability. This answers the question "What is the chance that either my glasses with 30% or my weapon with 50% success chance succeed to penalize the target?" So in this case the chance to apply HLD is [.3*.5 + .3 *.5 + .7*.5] = .15 + .15 + .35 = 65%. With just glasses, of course this is 30%.

    HLD reduces the target's DCI for 8 seconds.

    During the 8 seconds of lowered defence, you can make a max of 6 swings. Lets assume you're fighting a big baddie - something with 120 weaponskill and 20,000 hp, so you're going to have to hit it a lot. Assuming you have 120 weaponskill, and 45HCI, you'll have a 75% chance to hit. When HLD is in effect, that becomes 85.

    Ok, so luck is with you and you land HLD on your first swing. Lets talk about your next 6 swings.

    With 30% HLD, the probabilty NOT landing HLD within the next 6 swings is the P(0 hits) + P(some hits, but not apply HLD). P(o hits) = .15^6 = .00001 or 1 in 100,000 so, while I'm sure this has happened to people, it's small enough to discount. P(some hits, but none apply HLD) is a bit more complicated, so lets simply look at the expected value. You get 6 swings, with an 85% chance to hit, so you should expect to land 5 of them. Of those 5, you'd expect that 2 of them apply HLD. What is the probability that 0 of those 5 do? That is .7^5 = ~17% chance that you land 5 hits, but do not apply another HLD.

    If you have that 65% chance to apply HLD we talked about earlier, the chance that none of your 5 hits apply HLD is .35^5 = ~5% chance.

    Of course this is a bit of a simplification, but the true percentages aren't too far off from there I'm sure.

    As a vampire paladin, I simply MUST keep hitting what I'm swinging at to stay alive, and keeping one of these big baddies under HLD is part of that. 1 miss is unlikely to kill me, but 2 in a row is bad, and 3 in a row is terrible.

    With a 75% hit chance the chance to miss 2 hits in a row is 12.5%, at 85% it is 2.25% - that difference greatly increases your survavability.

    In your case though, I know from other threads that you don't swing at 1.25s, and in the heat of battle against something that hits hard, you're going to spend a fair amount of time < max stamina, which may for a swing or two lower your swing speed even more until you can refresh stam somehow (DF, pot, HSL, normal regen, whatever).

    It really depends on what you want to use the weapon for though. If it's a whirlwind weapon, HLD isn't a big deal, same for cases where whatever you're killing only takes a few swings to kill. For a boss killing weapon, the extra HLD is very useful.
     
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  3. The Old Man

    The Old Man Journeyman
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    That sir was a very informative answer! I'll read it again after my second coffee of the day :) (No sarcasm intended, the information is there when I can get my head around the numbers).

    I would follow it up with the common suggestion of copying the char to Test and trying it both ways. Knowing the numbers AND seeing the difference strikes me as the best way of Knowing.

    The Old Man
     
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  4. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    The TC idea is a good one, but in this case, might be tough - given than when I'm pounding away on a DF/Champ/Peerless/Master type monster, I've gotta be paying attention to a lot of things other than how often HLD is landing, and it's these long / tough battles where it matters.

    Though killing UEVs takes a while, and is pretty low risk, so maybe that'd be a good way to go. Simply chart every hit/miss when you have say 0 HLD, 30, 50, and 80, and see what the differences look like. Given that every UEV takes 200+ swings, even killing just 1 or 2 with each level of HLD should be enough to provide some useful data.
     
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  5. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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  6. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    Roflmao.....Tuan... I am a relatively bright guy, but I need my graph paper pencils and3rd coffee to follow you.... I love that we have someone who knows this crap this well...I also love that it isn't me! Keep posting man and I will forever keep reading. Thanks
     
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  7. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    Hey tuan can you look at the last post on my sis thread and refresh my memory on how to do that calculation?
     
  8. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I think 30 is sufficient for a Melee fighter. For a ranges char, I like 50 on the weapon instead.
     
  9. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Personally, my gut says put 50 HLD on the weapon, and find something else to wear as headgear.
     
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  10. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    I don't disagree, but i find the 10 STR and 5 DEX from M&S Glasses to be hard to replace. Those stats seem to be just what I need to hit 150 hit points with maxed stamina.

    What do you propose using as suitable warrior headgear alternatives?
     
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  11. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Well, that's the thing then, it doesn't just become a proper headgear alternative, but a reworking of the whole suit I guess. I originally built my suit to not use potions, and now I am thinking that potions are probably the way to go, even if I have 0 EP on my suit, so for me I can forgo the 10str in exchange for a str pot, and then making up for 5 dex (stam really) on a new helmet is pretty easy.

    Right now I wear 4x studded, 1x plate, glasses.

    My feeling is that 2x studded, 2x plate, 2x woodland might be the best bet to get "free" slot from heartwood on the 2 woodlands. the way I have my suit configured, I reforged for HCI. I could instead reforge for +str even to make up for the glasses I suppose.

    Another consideration - if you fight in a group, then, more or less, only 1 person needs HLD...
     
  12. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    2x studded, 2x plate, 2x woodland
    As I heard "1x studded, 2x plate, 3x woodland" is the same LMC
     
    #12 CorwinXX, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  13. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    I do not follow you...
     
  14. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I meant LMC.
    (edited now)
     
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