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How should EA handle cheaters once found?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Beastmaster, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Personally I would love to see all the characters of a banned cheater publicly executed, but that would take way too many resources. However, I think an excellent substitute, which could probably be done via code, would be to turn all their characters into permanent visible ghosts for say 30 days. Have the ghosts roam Luna much like the ghosts of Magincia.
     
  2. Set 'em on fire and let 'em run the streets willy nilly.

    Then tie them to a post and set their house(s) on fire while they watch.

    Then put up a sign in a random graveyard that says "Here lies XXXXX. He cheated. He burned.".

    Then perma ban anything to do with their name, credit card, home address, and any other piece of personal information EA has on them.


    Yeah. That should do it.....
     
  3. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Ban their accounts, distribute their items to new players, leave their houses burning in effigy.
     
  4. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    All of the Above

    when do they start tomorrow?
     
  5. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Give them a Pair of Sandles with the words..

    "I was caught cheating and there were no Repercussions"

    :thumbup1:
     
  6. UltimatePower

    UltimatePower Lore Keeper
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    If they can actually tell who is running "speedhack" and the other main program, starts with a R. They should make those char's bright pink or something. Then the cheaters will know ea knows, and people fighting against them will know for sure which ones are using them.

    Since they are never gonna ban anyone for using it, at least let them know, you know, it might stop some people from using it, or start sending out warning's in email. It would be a start.

    Just an idea.
     
  7. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Here's an idea, the first time you are caught cheating you get a warning and half the gold on your account gets deleted, because face it, there are lots of cheaters in UO and we don't really want to lose all those accounts. If you are caught cheating again all your characters, items and houses are deleted and the only shard you have access to from then on is Siege Perilous. If you are caught cheating a third time it is a perma ban and your account with all it's contents is deleted, and the credit or debit card you used to pay for your account is permanently banned along with any bank account, PayPal account, etc. that has been used to pay for the account (ip banning is pointless and unfair as the vast majority of broadband users have a dynamic ip that can easily be changed by simply releasing and renewing your ip).
     
  8. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Playing on Siege as a punishment....hmmmm....:eek:snap:
     
  9. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *sighs*
     
  10. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I figured that might get a response. The point is that Siege is the shard with the toughest rules set, where players can actually mete out meaningful justice on other players. And who knows, it might just result in an increase in population on Siege.

    I just realized a loop hole though, when you are caught cheating the marks against your account go against all the credit cards, debit cards, PayPal accounts, etc. used to pay for that account, not just the account, and every account associated with those cards and accounts are meted out the same punishment.

    Anyone who will continue to play UO after having all characters and items deleted, has to on some level really love the game, in spite of the cheating, so if they are going to continue to play after that, then they deserve that third chance, in my opinion. Just let it be on Siege... :)
     
  11. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    I like the idea.. if they aren't going to prevent and/or punish peeps for cheating, let the entire shard know by making all toons on the account flagged in some way.
     
  12. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    I like the idea of making them visible. Flag them by coloring them pink or put a sign above their heads for a week and make them freely attackable in Trammel. that should teach them!
     
  13. Merriweather

    Merriweather Guest

    Simple. Make them killable.
     
  14. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I like the idea of coloring cheaters pink!!!!

    My devious side, though, says don't tell them, but zap their account so that their effective skill level is cut by 50%. But don't make it visible. What, you have 120 archery/tactics/anatomy? See how they like cheating when they are fighting like a person with 60/60/60.

    Or set up an EA Assassin squad. With the ability to perma paralyze. And global Chat.

    "Attention Chessy Shard!!!!! We have a cheater perma paralyzed 20 tiles SE of the yew gate. Come on by and take your shots. Don't worry, we have cancelled his insurance, frozen his bank accounts, ransacked his house, and are healing him as you take your shots!!!!!! Once you are done we will free him naked and penniless."
     
  15. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    If they did this though... how long until somebody creates an account and cheats with it specifically to disgrace somebody they don't like?

    Just banning the person and all accounts they can associate with the same person is plenty action against the person... but EA should also try to find ways to prevent other people from cheating in the same way whenever reasonable.
     
  16. GL_Seller

    GL_Seller Guest

    They arent gonna do a damn thing about it so this whole thread is pntless. All they will recognize is people closing accounts. Do u really think ea gives a **** about a speedhacker that spends 12.99 and a legit person that spends 12.99? To them they are one and the same.
     
  17. Tuchman

    Tuchman Guest

    Siege the new Penal colony :lol:
     
  18. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Doesn't every empire need a penal colony?
     
  19. I really like the idea of flagging them another color (pink I guess...although there is something very misogynistic in this concept rolleyes: ) and making them attackable anywhere. But they need to be fully lootable too.

    It would give some us that used to fight PKs (murderers) a new purpose...we would hunt down and execute "criminals".
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I suggest drinking games
     
  21. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    If they ever actually do cheat recognition, 72 hours ban first offence, 7 day ban second offense, perma ban third offense.

    If you immediately perma ban anyone using an unapproved program then your UO population gets cut by 70%. It's not just PvPers who use this stuff, it is used for PvM, crafting, skill gain, etc, etc.
     
  22. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Counter arguments to some points raised.

    1) problem. Someone will create a new character and name it with a known toon's name to embarrass them.
    solution. All accounts created after the detection/banning is in place would just be permabanned without the ghost business.

    2)problem. 30%, 50%, 70% of the population cheats and all those accounts lost would kill UO.
    solution. That's the whole purpose of the ghost thing. When people start seeing toons popping up as ghosts they stop running the scripts and other illegal programs. So the vast majority won't get caught and banned unless they refuse to quit.

    The point is to shine the light of day onto the illegal activities. Doing that makes it a deterrent. The behind the scenes crap just leads to a bunch of speculation with no proof. Superman [ABC] running around as a ghost says "Bam this guy was caught redhanded and busted". disclaimer = I don't know a toon by that name or a guild, no offense intended to anyone or any guild.
     
  23. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Of course after the initial ban it will attract programmers to come in and defeat the system even if they never played UO in there life. Multiple solutions will generate others who do play the game will create there own and go underground. Undetectable, untraceble, If many subscriptions don't quit and UO does live those who stay will use the newly created underground programs to achieve there goals. EA will need to develop daily resources to combat this over and over. Of course we talking about a very low subscription game that draws in a profit but thats because they had to cut corners on man power and resources. So at the end it pretty much a lose situation for EA.
     
  24. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    if negative enough maybe developer listen to you

    lol keep cheating heart hope you go first on script down channel
     
  25. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    All about the dollars. Get caught. And for one month........ no bank box access, no hatch or pack animal access, account house locked down and any house access to ( make plp keep friends honest) locked down as Sosaria deco. Any travel spell insta fizzle. Insurance option muted for the month.

    It is also load junk accounts that are disposable. Take more to hunt down the true accounts gaining the wealth.

    Hell with banning. Lets have the account being paid for and limit the F factor. Fun.
     
  26. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Why do people care if the cheaters don't play? I would play a shard with 5 people if there are no cheaters.. And FYI banning all the accounts of cheaters would not cut the population by 70% are you nuts? There are only a few players per shard that use true cheats speedhackers, client modders (stump hacks, grave hacks, bagball item hacks, and of course the Z HACK). I don't have a problem with banning these people for good. I don't know of any other game that lets people using programs like that even login to a server sided system running programs like that, every Steam game, Every other MMO from free one on up (ASIDE FROM UO!!) will not even allow you to login if your running speedhacking programs. I will not include scripters into the cheating group because they arn't YES they are using a exploit and there should be a jail for scripters but not a perma ban. Anyhow thats my two cents but everyone should know by now the people hired as programmers for UO either A only come in when hell freezes over or B have no idea how to program at all.

    It's the only way to do things if every good pvper on your shard just poofed one day that could only be good for the simple fact they ran clients mods and speedhacks why on earth would you even want them to stay?
     
  27. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    pink would be the new red and everyone would be using since there would be no bans :popcorn:
     
  28. Cal_Mythic

    Cal_Mythic Guest

    Several years ago there was an article in GameInformer ... or perhaps it was GamesforWindows magazine.

    But the jest of it was the difference between cheaters and exploiters.

    Cheaters are basically those who find a loophole in the game and use it to their own benefit ...

    For example: finding a spot where a monsters cannot get to you and using it to farm, then buying a house with the gold. Simply personal gain.

    Exploiting is using that same spot, getting the gold then spamming the player base with ways of making more money (for you) from it ... or somehow causing detriment to other players and their gameplay through your activities.

    Now being responsible for this game... there is what I'd like to do ... and what I am allowed to do.

    What I'd like to do is (#$^#&$^# *#$*^!!! *#&$*Y# ... and another thing .. #*$&*#^#$!!@@@) and their stuffed animals!

    What I am allowed to do on the record will follow the rule of law, fall within the scope of EA's Term of Service and End User License Agreements :)

    Have a nice day.
     
  29. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    So nothing much then? :gee:
     
  30. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I still say every empire needs a penal colony... ;)
     
  31. agpga

    agpga Guest

    and once all the cheaters are banned we will all look for another game to go play (and cheat at) because there won't be anyone left to play this game. Everyone has cheated at some point in this game and if you say you haven't then God only knows and you will get the ultimate ban anyways.
     
  32. FIRE[TDR]

    FIRE[TDR] Guest

    "Cheaters are basically those who find a loophole in the game and use it to their own benefit ...

    For example: finding a spot where a monsters cannot get to you and using it to farm, then buying a house with the gold. Simply personal gain.

    Exploiting is using that same spot, getting the gold then spamming the player base with ways of making more money (for you) from it ... or somehow causing detriment to other players and their gameplay through your activities."




    So its ok to script and speedhack?
     
  33. Cal_Mythic

    Cal_Mythic Guest

    No. Speedhacking is exploiting. So no it is not acceptable. I actually did get an update from the engineers on 3rd party program detection as well as movement .. before I speak out of turn or give an update on either let's wait a couple days for the publishes ... this week. :)
     
  34. FIRE[TDR]

    FIRE[TDR] Guest

    I just hope the fix covers all unapproved 3rd party programs (uo assist being approved).
     
  35. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Now that Cal has responded to this thread, I'll make a more serious response.

    Here's what I would like to see done about cheaters:

    1. I'd like an acknowledgement from the devs that this is a huge problem, and it hasn't been dealt with adequately in the past.
    2. I'd like a solid commitment to third party cheat detection and a drop dead date for it's implementation (maybe we already have this, sort of...).
    3. I'd like a clear commitment made to permanently banning cheaters and deleting their accounts along with all of their possessions. I don't mind temporary bans for first time offenders and permanent bans for repeat offenders, but I want this to be clearly stated.
    4. I want the permanent bans to be on the level of credit and debit cards, PayPal accounts and bank accounts, and any other form of account that can be used to pay for a subscription or services from EA.

    That's my serious response to this question.
     
  36. God I'm so sick of everyone crying about hacks and speedhacking and stump hacks.. quit your crying, you would die whether people actually had it or not.

    I say permanently ban all the crybabies on stratics.
     
  37. Anderuin

    Anderuin Guest

    Why don't we shame them like child molesters? We can stick signs in their yards and put their adresses on a public list so people can hurass them 24/7.
     
  38. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Publishes plural? Or is that a single publish, but a patch for the EC and one for the Classic Client?
     
  39. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That's funny, today, when the cheats weren't working because of the publish, suddenly at least one guy who is normally almost impossible to kill, was suddenly very easy to kill... I won't name names, but it gave me a warm gushy feeling to be able to kill him in about 2 seconds when it normally takes a dozen a half an hour to run him down and kill him, if they are lucky...

    So guess what, if the promised third party cheat detection is implemented, and it is effective, I assure you I will die far less than I do right now, and I will get far more kills, unless of course these people disappear altogether. I noticed my normally impossible to kill friend kinda disappeared after he died the second time. Too bad really, because he always carries more pots than my feeble little elf can walk away with...
     
  40. roninaxx

    roninaxx Journeyman
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    casteration with title the eunic formerly know as_________
     
  41. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    I like the way Lynk thinks. There are lots of guilds that chatter about how to create scripts for cheat programs. My thoughts were similar but instead of timed bans I'd prefer the client being closed or the user being logged out with a warning message, along with a more permanent ban added if they are repeat offenders. At the very least this would allow EA to keep taking money from players. A permanent ban for something that seems like everyone is using is stupid from a business standpoint on EA's side. If you don't think everyone is using some type of cheat try joining a pvp guild.

    I'd love to see a community driven type of out casting done on cheaters. Things like not selling to certain players or guilds not allowing cheaters into their guilds. But the current system and tolerance by the community and EA seems to let this behavior go. A continued upgrade on the limited communication tools in game would be awesome something like a guild leader only chat, chats that show "[guild abbr] player name", and the ability to be in multiple channels at once.
     
  42. MiNi MaGi

    MiNi MaGi Sage
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    thats why alot of people use game codes :(
     
  43. MiNi MaGi

    MiNi MaGi Sage
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    i with you on this..

    i will be honestly shocked and happy if they do anything about the hackers though, ive heard promises about getting hackers since i started uo(98ish).. so i wouldnt hold your breath this time either. also i would love to see people perma banned but lets be honest uo's subscriptions are down enough.. last thing we need is to ban well over 50% of the player base for hacking.then uo will be hacker free for a little while till they pull the plug.
     
  44. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    I have a solution that honors all privacy and all laws.

    But since I'm not in a good mood, I'll be asking for something in return. :sad3:
     
  45. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    Spoken like a true cheater....
     
  46. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    The problem is Cal just about each server has people that are using real hacks,
    I am going to try to explain this..
    1)
    Xbox Live i'm sure alot of people love playing some of the better multiplayer games, Halo, CoD, GTA, so on and so on... What happens when someone comes on with a oo I don't know modded controller that can shoot 20 shots a second while you are stuck shooting one or two? or in UO terms mods their client so they can run thru bagballs, boxes, graves, pretty much anything said faction base guarders put up to help them inside a faction strong hold?
    2)
    OR another example your playing one of those games on live your shooting at some guy standing right infront of you, unload a whole clip into his skull but wait he's not getting killed BAM! he fliks the lag switch pops up behind you with a knife and kills you! UO terms some nebby 10 year old chick knows how to use a speedhacking program and almost seems to be teleporting infront of you wacking you with some crap club to death!

    Wow thats great, when it happens in UO we get a canned message sorry bud nothing we can do blah blah blah everyone knows the message. Yet on Xbox Live these people get their Live account BANNED.
    You try to login to say a CS,L4D,BIO,F2, heck any Steam games server and there are no messages that say anything it just kicks you off the server. EQ, EQ2, WoW, won't allow you to login either (so I have heard).

    Modding a client does go against the EULA I don't care what your lil post says.
    What you programmers need to do is sit down for a day or so NOT THREE YEARS! and figure out what you can do SERVER SIDED to figure out if someone is running mods. It could be as simple as making a database of every blocked location inside a map file if a clients location is on a blocked location that should send up a red flag.
    Speedhacking would be a bit more tricky to do server sided but if UO can stay alive for so many years I think that it can be done. If worst comes worst at the very least you can do a client side check and just disconnect the client every time the program is detected.

    >
     
  47. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    If all this pixel crack belongs to EA, as is maintained in the ToS, there should be no legal reason EA cannot have ghosts running around named whatever some former customer named them a character. I've run into many NPCs over the years that have adopted names from players on that shard.
     
  48. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That is a bit of a conundrum as well. Not quite sure how you could deal with that one.
     
  49. smip

    smip Slightly Crazed
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    They should handle them as they ALWAYS have. That's a no brainer.
     
  50. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Seriously, to compare these issues with child molesting, even in jest, is seriously sick.