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How to fix Skilling....a brainstorming thread....

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In the 'Skilling is fun....' thread, Parizad said :

    <font color="blue">"Okay, point taken.

    What are your suggestions to making skilling more fun? Should we eliminate skilling altogether? Should we make it so that it literally kills your sim?

    Let's brainstorm for a bit.

    Also, I need a volunteer to put the brainstorming ideas on the wiki, please. "
    </font>

    Rather than letting this opportunity, get lost at the bottom of the other thread, I am posting it in a new one, for everyone to easily see. [​IMG]

    Please post your suggestions here, and let's discuss them. Anyone looking for ideas can check out those, already posted on the Wiki Skill pages.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thank you Gilly.
    Before I post anything on it I'm going to read those wiki pages [​IMG]
     
  3. Meggers

    Meggers Guest

    I can think of a couple of things. Give more interactions for skilling. Make the decay at least as slow as it takes to skill. Maybe give us some more crafted items, I know I would skill more if they did, lol.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I can think of a couple of things. Give more interactions for skilling. Make the decay at least as slow as it takes to skill. Maybe give us some more crafted items, I know I would skill more if they did, lol.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Okay, good suggestions. I notice that they are all for the end result of skilling. How do you think we can improve the actual act of skilling?

    ...or should we just trash it?
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Skilling is only part of the problem. Locks, or the lack there of, also needs to be considered here.

    My suggestion is for sims to start out with more locks, enough to actually get the interactions a person wants or craft something more than a pet painting. Waiting to gain locks is almost as much fun as trying to max a skill right now.

    I also still think the best thing would be to speed skilling up to the speed we have now at around 3 points and keep it there. It takes entirely too long to gain skills as they get higher. I think if this was done, decay would not be an issue as we would be able to reskill/retop faster than it decays, as it should have always been.

    I don't want to see skilling taken out of the game, it is a good way for new people to meet and get to know other players. But it does need to be not so slow and mind numbingly boring to gain what skills we want.

    Teaching is a great interactive way to earn skills, but even that goes slower than I would like when the student gets closer to the teachers rate. It would be good to speed that up some too. I don't understand the reason behind teaching dropping energy and fun at the rate it does either. Changing the way it drops needs would also help.

    I think it would be great to earn some skill while doing other things too. Gain a little cooking each time you cook a meal. Gain a little creative as you paint. For example.

    The amount that a sim gains at a job is ridiculously small. It would be much more of an incentive to work those jobs if they actually gained .5 in a skill for a days work than .01. It would be more of an incentive to work if we could gain a skill lock for completing a level.
     
  6. Purdy

    Purdy Guest

    Post deleted by Purdy
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Some of my best times in game have been on a skill lot with a great group of people actively participating and having fun.

    I'd hate to see skilling done away with all together - arriving on a skill lot in a new city is still one of the best ways to meet new people and is a great way for new players to find out about the game (when ppl aren't afk that is).

    Anything to make skilling more interactive and keep people's attention, rather then setting their sim to skill and going off to do real life stuff would help.

    Ideas that have been suggested in the past are mini games while skilling - like when you play chess, you can open an interactive game of chess (or some other kind of game) with another player/multiple players.

    More interactive things (like the war games), so that you actually have to do something that helps gain skill. Gaining skill while playing something like code or pizza would be very cool ! (more interactive then single job objects and zero chance to afk). For me, these types of objects that require multiple sims to work together and perhaps give a much higher skill rate would be fun.

    Also maybe gaining higher skill points through the sim jobs would also be a good way to boost skills. Currently we get a tiny increase at the factory, but not enough to notice. Basically ways of working together and to keep people's attention on the game, perhaps we could earn money at the same time, or maybe we could have a range of activities similar to jobs but that earn skills through co-operation rather then money.

    Afterall in real life, we're often learning new skills when we are work ....

    These are just a few thoughts of the top of my head.

    One of the interesting things about TC3 is with so many doing the job tracks, skill houses are a hive of activity for a sim hour or two before work and again after work when everyone comes back to green. Sometimes its utter chaos, but its cool to see so many people not afk and busily chatting and actually playing the game.

    I'm not sure that 35 people on a lot is so good for skill lots, but I may come back and post more thoughts on that tomorrow !

    Polly
     
  8. Keep It Real

    Keep It Real Guest

    I like Polly's suggestions and also the ones on the wiki already. Anything to make skilling more interactive and less of something that is dreaded. Also skill decay, is there some way to slow it down, when I skill and have to green my skill drops just from getting ready to start skilling again, that ain't right.
     
  9. <blockquote><hr>

    Didn't the money objects used to give skill points in the beta days and early on in the game? I think they did, so why can't we earn skill points when we craft and use all the money objects!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yes, money objects used to give a small boost in skills during beta and the early days of TSO. It seems to me this would be an easy thing for the devs to implement again and I think they should.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What about the Maid and Gardener jobs??

    I have seen sims in tc3 asking if anyone wants a cleaner/cook type thing. I know others that water the plants (Personally, I cant skill if im surrounded by droopy tulips and daffs, it bugs me so I have to water them [​IMG] It's not just me that does that is it?)


    Anyway - could these jobs be bought into the game alongside the NPC maids/gardeners?? especially for busy houses?

    YOu could be 'contracted' to work say 2 sim hours at a house (depending on the size of the lot maybe) tending to the plants/cleaning the kitchen and bathroom. When you entered the house you would be given a pop up with all the jobs that needed doing and you could click on each one (to prevent afk cleaners gardeners [​IMG]) that way all of the jobs would get done or your alotted time would run out. You'd only get paid if you didnt stand about (don't know how you'd work that out though)

    Ooooh you could even bring in a hoover [​IMG] NO ironing boards though please [​IMG]



    Could even go 1 step further and have hosts for rent - many a skill house, especially in tc3 when full are fun by only 1 or 2 hosts. Maybe they could employ a sim to cook for the guests during busy periods? I don't quite know how you would make sure they actually did the job though?

    hmmm needs more thought.........
     
  11. dinaj

    dinaj Guest

    IF they were to give me that 4 foot long sharp stick I could make sure they did their jobs .... [​IMG]
     
  12. I agree with Polly about making skilling more interactive for those that find it monotonous. The war table is a great example of this, however I would like to see those types of objects require a higher use of RL skill, rather than just lucky button pressing. Those objects should reward a higher skill /per time rate. This idea could be expanded further to provide a ranking system that displays who are the top players at these games.

    "Fun" is subjective though. I rather enjoy the downtime I get with skilling on a lot and being able to just casually read the chat and interject at various times.

    Also, I believe that skilling will need a major overhaul in the near future. As it stands now, skilling only provides 3 (maybe more) direct affects on the game.

    1) Gain Interactions
    2) Access to Create Crafted Items
    3) Higher Payouts

    As custom content reaches a higher level, I see the first two incentives as nearly pointless. Why craft an Irrigation System or a Pine Bed when a CC creator can make a more attractive one with the same (or higher) motive values? Perhaps to see your avatar fall on their butt and chuckle? Will you still need that when CC creators make the same "Fall on Butt" interaction that you can do whenever you want?

    Just food-for-thought. I'll continue to brainstorm on skilling ideas.
     
  13. I recommended a similar idea on the wiki website called "Service Contracts".

    You can view it here:

    Service Contracts - Wiki
     
  14. krazykara

    krazykara Guest

    Some thoughts on skilling.
    While skilling, if one is playing chess they can actually play chess or, checkers with another player. This way you are doing something and earning logic skill points at the same time.
    For cooking and mechanical, have you sim actually making the jams, or gnomes and instead of making money they are earning skills. Maybe an option to get closer view and actually click on the items in a certain order. For jams, click on apples and then select cut. Turn on burner and put the pot on the burner. Then select to put apples in the pot and stir until the jam is done. Then from there different tasks to finish the jam. Could do a similar thing with gnomes on the workbench. This way you are doing something while you are skilling. Could probably do some thing similar with potions to earn logic points.
    For creativity, have your sim at a piano and have an option to be at the keyboard. Follow the note patterns on your screen. When you follow successfully you earn creativity. The higher the skill the more the difficulty.
    I would think this would make skilling more fun and gives the simmer something to do while skilling.
    If you want to chat while simming, can have the chat window on the bottom and chat at the same time.
    Skilling itself could be more interactive than the way it is now. Grant it the days are gone when people actually chatted while skilling. Now the majority of the people park their sims and expect others to babysit their sim while they go afk.

    Another thing use the money making items and have them set for earning skill only on skill lots. When the items are done not sure what you can do with them, other than potions, could drinnk them and have the sims change they way the look for a few minutes. Would make it a little more fun while earning logic.

    There are many possibilities. Just have to be creative.
     
  15. dinaj

    dinaj Guest

    Id like to be able to keep those jams, like in offline sims and give them as gifts or to sell. How about we brew our own wine, beer or champange along with some potions. The higher the logic the cooler the outcome.

    I would love to offer an unsuspecting sim a drink that alters their behavior or a potion that changes their appearance.

    These can all be kept in a seperate inventory labled accordingly.

    If drastically changing the way we skill proves to be more difficult than expected then at least we would have something more to look forward to that would add a new dimension to the game.
     
  16. Meggers

    Meggers Guest

    I like the idea of interactive skilling. The reason people go afk while skilling is because it's soooo boring watching your sim read a book or talk to itself in a mirror.
     
  17. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Didn't the money objects used to give skill points in the beta days and early on in the game? I think they did, so why can't we earn skill points when we craft and use all the money objects!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yes, money objects used to give a small boost in skills during beta and the early days of TSO. It seems to me this would be an easy thing for the devs to implement again and I think they should.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, in the offline sims I know that paintings give money and skill. If would be very nice if all objects gave both. The only problem I foresee is, what is the benefit from going to a skill house if you can go to a money house, get skills AND make money?

    I suggest (As I mentioned in some post I made before) that money objects could still be allowed on skill lots and could give money and skill as well. On money lots, objects would give a bigger payout and less skill. On skill lots, objects would give more skill and less payout. Even skill objects, like bookcases, could give such a payout. Say, for a certain amount of points you get an amount of money. A bubble could pop up (like those for interactions and for getting a skill point) telling you that you have made some money on something. For studying cooking it could say..."Several people bought those yummy apple pies that you made at the local fair. It's paying off reading those cookbooks! Congrats, You get $50." Hehe...Anyway, you get my drift!

    EDITED TO ADD: And to ensure that a person is there, you receive no money automatically. You must click on that bubble to accept. This might get more people excited about chatting and being present if money is involved lol.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I agree with Polly about making skilling more interactive for those that find it monotonous. The war table is a great example of this, however I would like to see those types of objects contain a higher use of RL skill, rather than just lucky button pressing. Those objects should reward a higher skill /per time rate. This idea could be expanded further to provide a ranking system that displays who are the top players at these games.

    "Fun" is subjective though. I rather enjoy the downtime I get with skilling on a lot and being able to just casually read the chat and interject at various times.

    Also, I believe that skilling will need a major overhaul in the near future. As it stands now, skilling only provides 3 (maybe more) direct effects on the game.

    1) Gain Interactions
    2) Access to Create Crafted Items
    3) Higher Payouts

    As custom content reaches a higher level, I see the first two incentives as nearly pointless. Why craft an Irrigation System or a Pine Bed when a CC creator can make a more attractive one with the same (or higher) motive values? Perhaps to see your avatar fall on their butt and chuckle? Will you still need that when CC creators make the same "Fall on Butt" interaction that you can do whenever you want?

    Just food-for-thought. I'll continue to brainstorm on skilling ideas.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree with Polly too and thrill very good suggestions!
    I've always liked the idea of interactive skilling. As was stated in some other thread, in most other games leveling up takes some sort of action... sometimes its nice to be able to sit your sim down with a book and gain skill while you do other things. But really its not very fun and it obviously didn't work for the old game [​IMG]
     
  19. This is what I posted on TSO-E when asked about fun....

    -----
    "What about inventing a whole new skill? ….So that people would be eager to skill for something again. We could get a few more free locks with it to make it 25 or 30. Mech, Creativity, Charisma, Cooking, Logic, Body…. lets see… what about a Survival skill. Can you imagine the job track. Going to work looking like the croc hunter with a backpack and gear. Seeing how many fishing poles you can bait, fish caught and get reeled in…lol. What fun! You could skill for it by telling fishin’ and huntin’ stories at the campfire (but i know not everyone has one), or by swimming (I know that you could skill body by swimming in the offline version). Hardly anyone uses pools except for maze games. It would be nice to use it for skilling. We pay for pricey sim swimsuits and hardly get to use them!! Darn it, they should be seen!"
    -----

    It was late at night when I posted that... so it is a little silly, but you get my point. A new skill would be fun. It may not correct the present state of skilling, but it would open up a new reason to skill, with more interactions to boot. I mentioned interactive skilling in the same post, much like the pizza machine does for money. I am still trying to brainstorm ideas for that though.
     
  20. Here is a new idea for skilling. Bring back the slot machines for a new trivia slot game.
    Here is how it works:

    1. The slot machine does not cost simoleans to play, this is a game not gambling. The player just has to pull the handle to start playing.

    2. If the player hits he gains a small percentage point gain towards a skill but it is applied randomly just like the Mystic Trees.

    2. A losing spin does not take away skill.

    3. New Bonus Round:

    A new bonus feature is introduced into the slot machines. If the player hits by spinning three bonus symbols on the payline a secondary bonus game appears. A window pops up and the player chooses from any of our five skill categories by clicking the skill he wants. After he chooses and clicks OK another window appears. The game asks him a trivia question about his skill category. Sports trivia for Body, food trivia for cooking, handyman trivia for mech, science/tech trivia for logic and maybe movie/TV/travel for charisma. The player then has to click one of four multiple choice answers to the question he is asked. If he answers the question correctly he gains a full skill point applied to the category he played.

    The slot machines could give your sim fun while you are playing them. You could not go AFK and gain skill while using it. Slots with different types of secondary games could be designed.
     
  21. Dita'

    Dita' Guest

    Creativity - No one uses the band machines for money, or I never see them. What if you made all the instruments for creativity and people would have to play to get the skill points. This would surely eliminate more than one skill on a lot because people would have to work together to get the skills.

    Body- What if we had houses that had swimming pools. You gained skill points by how many laps you did. You would have to actively participate and if you get bored. You quit for the day right?

    I know these ideas would be time consuming but i dont think we were ever meant to get all the skills in one day. Skill a little, play a little.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I LOVE the idea if interactive skilling [​IMG]

    BUT how about this as an added option....

    You study say logic - you get the option to play chess (or solitaire, whatever games they add) or not (skill as is the norm now).

    If you select to play - you skill goes up at a higher rate as you are actually playing but if you chose not to (ie if you are going to skill afk and do the housework) then yor skill goes up and the normal rate??

    Bit of a twist- what do you all think?
     
  23. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I can think of a couple of things. Give more interactions for skilling. Make the decay at least as slow as it takes to skill. Maybe give us some more crafted items, I know I would skill more if they did, lol.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Okay, good suggestions. I notice that they are all for the end result of skilling. How do you think we can improve the actual act of skilling?

    ...or should we just trash it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    GET RID OF SKILL DECAY AND LOCKS!!!

    Like on the pc based game, once you have the skill....you have it.

    Sit down....skill it....that's it...moving on....to other things a player may want to do in the game such as crafting, hanging out, making money, exploring EAland, etc.

    No more arguing over locks, no more constantly having to reskill our decaying unlocked skills, etc.

    (If the devs wanted to throw in a wammy, they could have sims lose their skills by dying, etc.)

    I would suggest that in the future, the devs try to increase skill levels and add a few new emotes at least once a year. That way players that are maxxed out, would need to go back and add on to the skills they already have.
     
  24. The time it takes to skill sims has always been the biggest complaint in game. Investing time to skill and then re-skill has always had negative feedback. To avoid a life of constant re-skilling, some players choose to commit to a specific skill path and only skill in area of a specific life goal.(skilling only what they can lock) However, even playing this way limits opportunities for players to experience new things or change their life goals.

    Players that want to have more choice in activities are forced to overskill in many different areas to try new things. I remember the game when we had no skill locks and the locks themselves did improve our ability to keep what we had earned and venture out into new areas to try more things. I still like the idea of earning locks for time invested in the game. Locks are a reward to keep players, playing and paying.

    I do not wish the skilling game to be killed as it is a part of the sims game and intergrated into building unique lives of your characters. I like the concept of choice and choosing a goal to skill for in the game.

    I like the idea of earning skill points while making money because this is an activity that everyone participates in just for mere survival. The rate of skilling while making money should be slower than the mundane skilling done in skill houses but none-the-less it gives people a choice.

    I'd also like to see sims earn cooking skills while cooking. Mechanical skills while actually doing repairs. Body skills while cleaning toilets, mopping, sweeping and making beds. How about some charisma skills just for actually chatting with other players in game?!!!

    Instead of relying on locks to help us achieve goals in game how about a skill machine (cash register/skill register) where we can trade in points earned of one skill for another. I expect some people would even pay to trade in one for another. When I get tired of making pizzas all the time I can go trade in my 20pts of "earned" cooking skills for 20pts of logic and play code for awhile. Perhaps I'm tired of crafting sprinklers all the time and want to trade in my skills for those needed to craft some pest traps for a bit. We could even limit changes to once a week like name changes.

    Skilling and money making are intergrated into the "economy" game that many enjoy playing in TSO. I suggest that skills only decay while on skill and money lots. Many players rarely want to sit around entertainment lots playing user created games because of skill decay. The only time it is worth losing skills is when you are making money. Why fight skill decay when you could spend more time crafting or shopping? While I have found the complete green free residential lots to be limited and boring, I could see more use of other categories if just skill decay was removed from them.
     
  25. Roger Wilco

    Roger Wilco Guest

    Yes, skilling is boring. That's exactly what the original dev's wanted it to be thinking that players would be so bored that they would talk more. It was designed to be accomplished very easily, and thus allow people to chat more while doing it. Skilling being boring is working as intended. We have pointed out since beta that the fundamental design concept of easy (and thus boring) skilling was flawed and would result in nothing more than extensive afk. Our board posts and messages were ignored (or worse).

    After launch, the old dev's finally realized they had a problem and asked for suggestions. Four or so years ago I wrote up a detailed, totally revamped, design document for skilling that stressed interactivity (mini-games, etc) and tried to incorporate as much decision making as possible. Basically, that design required a player to actually sit at the keyboard to and do things to skill as opposed to finding a large heavy object to use and go away. The dev's liked certain portions of it, and had issues with others, but what's important is they also liked the overall concept of making skilling interactive.

    No surprise there. I would guess the current dev's would also love some sort of sexy interactive skilling design. I wouldn't be surprised if they had one or more sitting on a shelf somewhere. So why wasn't it/isn't it being done? Basically the answer is a lack of resources. You're talking about a massive amount of work to totally replace the existing (flawed) skilling design and expecting that to happen at this point I really think would be unrealistic in the extreme. A band-aide is about all you can realistically expect to reduce the amount of skilling players feel they need to do, and over the years that's exactly what they've done (skill locks, fruit, skill decay tweaks, etc).

    So what can be done now beyond throwing an additional band-aide on it and reducing the need to skill even further? To be honest, I doubt the resources are there to really "fix" skilling right. I've finally reached the point that I'd just remove skill decay and be done with it. Make skilling an irrelevant part of the game that players do once and move on to other things after a few weeks.
     
  26. <blockquote><hr>


    So what can be done now beyond throwing an additional band-aide on it and reducing the need to skill even further? To be honest, I doubt the resources are there to really "fix" skilling right. I've finally reached the point that I'd just remove skill decay and be done with it. Make skilling an irrelevant part of the game that players do once and move on to other things after a few weeks.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The only problem with this is people will reach the point of no longer needing to skill faster and become bored faster. There are very few founders left in game because many get bored once they have accomplished everything there is to do. If this can be done in weeks rather than years, the turn over of subscribers will increase.

    Until there is more for people to do after the skilling is done, this is one of the only games in town and we do need to tweak it. I'm not opposed to killing the "skill" game but not before there is something else to play.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I can think of a couple of things. Give more interactions for skilling. Make the decay at least as slow as it takes to skill. Maybe give us some more crafted items, I know I would skill more if they did, lol.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Okay, good suggestions. I notice that they are all for the end result of skilling. How do you think we can improve the actual act of skilling?

    ...or should we just trash it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The problem with skilling right now, is that it is <font color="DarkRed"><u>passive</u></font>.

    Any time spent, passively, in a game is boring, and the kiss of death to *active* participation by players...so folks go AFK. [​IMG]

    Most suggestions to improve skill gain, are center around two points:

    1. Adding more participatory aspects, making the skilling game more *active* and game-like.

    2. Reducing the time skill takes away from playing the rest of the game (skilling speed and decay).


    Several people have suggested incorporating actually games, like real chess games, games like War Table or other mini games, like Sim School ( a mini-game for skilling, like the job mini-games).

    There has always been a lot of support for actually playing a game of chess (or checkers) at the chess table while skilling, but that is essentially a two person activity, and limiting the activity to just two people is one of the negatives of the War Table (and pizza/code/maze, also)....it excludes everyone else on the property from participating.

    I would like to see a group activity that everyone on a lot can either be active observers (watch scores, cheerlead, razz) or can join in on. Just as group money objects, reward people for coming together, so should skills!

    *Swimming parties or races.
    *Dance parties or ''til you drop competitions.
    *Sporting events (Sim ball, whacket ball, basket ball, volley ball from offline)
    *Games shows or trivia competitions.
    *Lot sized board games (Monopoly, Clue, Sorry!, Scrabble, Yahtze)

    The more people participating on a lot ~ the better the skill gain for the activity. Everyone would gain....

    What needs work with the idea is:
    *not sure if observers should gain at the same rate as doers?(would AFK leeches develop?)
    *how many on a lot triggers the skill gain?(2, 6, 10?)
    *Should sporting events, competitions, races &amp; parties, gain skill only on the Games or Entertainment lots? or Skill lots? Or all lots?
    *How could we improve the ability to score and referee compititions and events?
    *Should the rate of gain be higher or lower than traditional, passive skilling?
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I do not believe that it would take extensive programing to tweak or enable skill gain on certain existing activites or lots.....as opposed to completely reworking skill objects....would it?
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If you fix a meal, you should gain cooking skill for the time you spent making the meal. The amount of skill gained should be exactly the same as if you read a book for those few seconds. Maybe cleaning the dishes should be counted too.

    Repair a toilet or any other object, similarly gain mechanical.

    Since EA owns Pogo, make some interactive mini-games similar to pogo games for skilling in logic, mechanical, charisma.

    Body.. endurance contests and races.

    Creative.. building and decorating houses.
     
  30. We need to be careful stating that people only want interactive skilling and that passive skilling is boring. Because that is not really true. Many people enjoy the passive skilling that gives them the leisure to just chat with other people. They don't want to be tied up busy concentrating on an activity for skilling all the time.

    Improvements to skilling must be offering more choice, not taking away. I still believe the best possible skilling speed should happen in a specialized category like skill houses. I even think teaching in a skill house should be tweaked to offer a faster speed than a teacher in an offbeat or services category.

    I see nothing wrong with adding small skill gain on job objects in money houses or skill gain while working the job tracks as long as it is slower than specialized skill houses.

    I would even like to see skill houses that only carry one type of skill object to recieve faster skill speeds than a skill house that has to have every skill object available. This would encourage more people to build and visit specialized lots rather than all in one shops.

    Interactive skilling like the war table or teaching should be a faster skill gain than passive skilling because of the time and attention one has to pay in order to do it.

    I don't like that money objects have been removed from use from all categories except money lots and I surely don't want to see that happen to skill objects. They should have just tweaked money objects to pay alot less on other types of lots rather than take them away.
    Using skill objects on other lots is slower but it does help when fighting skill decay at home and I believe it is still necessary.

    Stop taking things away and add!
     
  31. JRock

    JRock Guest

    How about making the process of skilling group oriented. The more people on a lot skilling a particular category are enabled to interact with each other and complete some kind of project. Sort of like 4 members making a pizza to earn money. Maybe groups of 4 or groups of 6 who are skilling cooking can make a cake for example. The higher the skill gained, the harder it is to make a cake.
    Sims will be interacting and they would be able to get their minds off the skilling.

    For logic, maybe the groups of 4 or groups of 6 could solve puzzles that get more complex as the skill level increases.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm sorry, Gracie, but even on rereading, I don't see where I suggested taking anything away? Everything I mentioned was an add-on. [​IMG]

    But on another note......the number of people who like to passively skill in order to chat, is fractional compared to those who AFK skill. And there is no evidence that active gameplay inhibits chat....unless you are laggy and prone to die in the factory! [​IMG]

    People chat constantly, while doing trivia, dancing, competing in 'til-you-drop contests, playing player-made board games and Sim Ball.....why should they not also gain skills at the same time? Or at the very least not decay as long as they are participating?
     
  33. Sorry Gilly, I didn't mean to imply that it was you that suggested taking away. Many people have made suggestions in a way that it sounds like "replace" passive skilling or take it away.

    Doing the job track is very interactive and you do not have alot of time to chat. The same goes for pizza playing and other group money objects. While these interactive ways of making money to me are more fun than standing around passively making jam, I don't want the world of skilling to be so interactive we have no passive activity time for more meaningful conversations while we play.

    I know for a fact I've had alot better conversations with people in game while passively skilling than trying to play pizza.

    I don't know how playing a game of sim ball or dancing could be measured in order to give a fair skilling speed. I'm all for stopping decay while doing these other activities but skilling speed should be monitored and measured just as money making because it is directly related to making money and part of the economy game.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If you fix a meal, you should gain cooking skill for the time you spent making the meal. The amount of skill gained should be exactly the same as if you read a book for those few seconds. Maybe cleaning the dishes should be counted too.

    Repair a toilet or any other object, similarly gain mechanical.

    Since EA owns Pogo, make some interactive mini-games similar to pogo games for skilling in logic, mechanical, charisma.

    Body.. endurance contests and races.

    Creative.. building and decorating houses.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    At some point, skilling becomes so slow, you wouldn't earn even 0.01 skill points for some of the things you've listed. Maybe for the quicker actions, 0.01 or 0.02 is the minimum you'd earn for completing the action (i.e. when the pot comes off the stove and turns into a platter, you earn the skill).
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I hear what you are saying, Gracie, I have has some very in-depth conversations just sitting on the sofa in my own lot doing nothing, but I have had an easier time of making conversation with strangers and making aquantainces, while actively participating in games, contest, and other less intense (than jobs) activities.

    It is hard, to talk deeply, while doing the Factory Job, but in the end, we bond tighter from the shared danger! [​IMG]

    I think it would be easier to break the ice, chatting, if we are participating in a common activity.....that we can talk about, as we are doing it or other chit-chat. That is why I always loved 'til-you-drop contests....that and the money. [​IMG]

    Everything that can be said about 'reading' a cookbook, already had been.....ad nauseum. [​IMG]

    This is why I support the idea of making skill points or fractions of skill points, available for the many, many more active, games and activities that do or have existed in our game.

    edited to finish the thought [​IMG]
     
  36. this may sound a bit odd but .. I would like to maybe see trivia questions while I skill maybe for that catagory ..Something to do so I dont have to stare at a screen and have nothing to do ..Cooking= cooking food trivia..Logic ..All trivia ..Ect
     
  37. Suzi Q

    Suzi Q Guest

    Skilling is a big part of the game, to scrap it would be self destruction! Why can't more activities be incorporated in to skilling? Gaining skill points when cooking, swimming etc. It would be great to see meal options (the choices increasing with the higher cooking skill), fancy diving and/or gymnastics movements (again with the higher body skill), etc. etc. The EA crew should put as much energy in to improving what we already have in game, as they do in to custom content. [​IMG]
     
  38. Suzi Q

    Suzi Q Guest

    For studying cooking it could say..."Several people bought those yummy apple pies that you made at the local fair. It's paying off reading those cookbooks! Congrats, You get $50." Hehe...Anyway, you get my drift!

    Love your suggestions Spacey, sounds great to me [​IMG]
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Its a nice idea, but Im pretty sure the devs would see that as an exploit. [​IMG]

    I think we need to have both the current system and some new options for the more interactive player. There will always be some that dont want to play real chess to get logic for example. Maybe the pie menu could be expanded to include a new option "play interactive" so we could play together if we choose.

    I could see money objects tuned to skill instead. I dont see them providing both skill and money in the current economy, otherwise it defeats the purpose of removing money objects from skill houses. But what if instead of making money by pizzaing on a skill lot, we got skill instead, so the purpose of the item depends on what lot its on.

    Now of course it would be wonderful to have all new items to skill with interactivly and Im sure in the future of CC we will have to ability to make our own skill games (most likely provided they cant skill above the EA set rate). However at the moment we have to consider dev man hours. Looking at how long it took to make the 4 year gift, with the 5 still in some unknown stage of progress. Do we want to wait that long for new items while they have so much to do with opening EA Land? I think it may be easier to change the current objects then to make new ones. Of course Im not a dev and what sounds easier to me may be virtually impossible in their world.
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I voted for not having skills in the first place. Never understood that. Why do we need to level-up in a social game?

    Fine, if it's going to continue to have some elements of a competitive leveling game, can it really compete with the likes of WoW etcetera? The segment of the gaming demographic that goes for competitive play is going to go for something that offers more serious PvP, not a pissing match over who's digital dolly got the most visitors last night. Even those that can put up with the leveling-grind usually complain about games that require monster-mashing ad infinitum (as opposed to watching their character read a book for hours on end), and tend to purchase games that offer a higher degree of questing and storyline then, well, watching your pixel person read a book.

    Then again, trying to get this game to belly up against the major players in the social game category, like Second Life, is really setting one's self up for failure at this point.

    Not sure what the point of this game is anymore, other than nostalgia for those of us with ancient sims, all of which is moot since they're eliminating features left and right...
     
  41. Keep It Real

    Keep It Real Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I voted for not having skills in the first place. Never understood that. Why do we need to level-up in a social game?

    Fine, if it's going to continue to have some elements of a competitive leveling game, can it really compete with the likes of WoW etcetera? The segment of the gaming demographic that goes for competitive play is going to go for something that offers more serious PvP, not a pissing match over who's digital dolly got the most visitors last night. Even those that can put up with the leveling-grind usually complain about games that require monster-mashing ad infinitum (as opposed to watching their character read a book for hours on end), and tend to purchase games that offer a higher degree of questing and storyline then, well, watching your pixel person read a book.

    Then again, trying to get this game to belly up against the major players in the social game category, like Second Life, is really setting one's self up for failure at this point.

    Not sure what the point of this game is anymore, other than nostalgia for those of us with ancient sims, all of which is moot since they're eliminating features left and right...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well said, VERY well said.
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I voted for not having skills in the first place. Never understood that. Why do we need to level-up in a social game?

    Fine, if it's going to continue to have some elements of a competitive leveling game, can it really compete with the likes of WoW etcetera? The segment of the gaming demographic that goes for competitive play is going to go for something that offers more serious PvP, not a pissing match over who's digital dolly got the most visitors last night. Even those that can put up with the leveling-grind usually complain about games that require monster-mashing ad infinitum (as opposed to watching their character read a book for hours on end), and tend to purchase games that offer a higher degree of questing and storyline then, well, watching your pixel person read a book.

    Then again, trying to get this game to belly up against the major players in the social game category, like Second Life, is really setting one's self up for failure at this point.

    Not sure what the point of this game is anymore, other than nostalgia for those of us with ancient sims, all of which is moot since they're eliminating features left and right...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well said, VERY well said.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    And yet.......... here we all are.
     
  43. Keep It Real

    Keep It Real Guest

    I logged in long enough to check the latest bonus/visitor bug, I have been spending my time playing SL and WoW. I doubt I will be playing TSO much with the way things are going. This game is turning into a wannabe SL more and more.

    How to fix skilling? Get rid of it entirely.
     
  44. krazykara

    krazykara Guest

    The game is based on the offline version of The Sims. If you played The Sims you know part of their success in things is to skill. I don't think skilling is a problem, I really don't mind skilling. There are many ways of improving it to make it better, which I have given my imput as to what can be done.
    The sad thing is people have got into a bad habit of going afk while skilling. If one would actually stay and chat, like I am sure it was intended, it wouldn't seem so bad.
    During beta, swimming in a pool gave body skill, like in the offline version. The money objects gave both skill and money, like in the offline version. I understand the reasoning for taking the skilling out of the money objects. The swimming I think they should have kept the body skill.
     
  45. Simsaholic

    Simsaholic Guest

    3 words on skilling: Speed. It. Up.
     
  46. <blockquote><hr>

    How do you think we can improve the actual act of skilling?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I didn't read this whole thread so I don't know if these things were mentioned...

    My ideas on how to make skilling fun or more interesting (in addition to current ways of skilling) is:

    Body: earn skill playing basket ball or swimming like sims 1. Or when Luc was talking about adding games inside of games, sure we have a basketball hoop, but can we get a basket ball game? and if we can, then that should not only be interactive between many sims, but also give body skill.

    Logic: Give us another game inside a game. Anything from tic tac toe to hang man to puzzles. Something simple that uses real logic skills. On other games on my xbox 360 you have to accomplish a puzzle in order to make it to the next round. I love those puzzles, usually more than the game I'm trying to beat. lol.

    Mechanical: Give us skill when we fix something. Make repairing objects like a job track, you sign up for the mechanics list, (which i guess could be viewed on one of the web services, even tho I'm not fond of that stuff lol) and when someone calls a mechanic there is a pop up of the property that requires a mechanics services. Not only would you get paid for "working" but you would gain the skill. OR...instead of the current way of fixing items, make a box of parts. If you can put together the entire box of parts, you would gain skill. Something along those lines. lol. idk.

    Cooking: It would be nice to earn cooking skills when you actually cook. Maybe even make cooking more enjoyable, by allowing us to choose which foods we want to be in our meal. Or like the restaurant job track, make something that will allow us to gain cooking skill interactively, just not another actual job. Maybe a community kitchen, anyone can cook there for other players, doesn't cost to cook, only to eat the food, but you can sit there as long or little as you want.

    Creativity: Gain skill when you serenade. Or make a paint by numbers puzzle or something that is also interactive and not something we just sit there and watch...or go afk for.

    Charisma: If friend webs will be changing, maybe we can give charisma to players who are interacting. Using the talk action? Or even talking on a microphone, but the amount of skill you earn would rely on how many sims click to listen to you. Which would require you to ask sims to listen to you. lol.

    These are just basic ideas. I guess my point is, to make skilling useful it should be interactive. Again all these ideas should NOT replace current skilling, just be in addition to.
     
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well I have done my best to collate and organize the general opinion as expressed in this thread and the poll, into a design page on the Wiki. [​IMG]

    <font color="blue">Improved Skilling Suggestions</font>

    Please suggest any improvements, changes or additions on the disscussion page. (just click on the 'discussion' tab at the top tool bar) [​IMG]
     
  48. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Nice work Gilly thanks!
     
  49. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    You study say logic - you get the option to play chess (or solitaire, whatever games they add) or not (skill as is the norm now

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Admittedly I'm late to this thread, but I was gonna say something similiar to what uk_player did here. How many times have we seen people here on the boards say "Don't tell me how to play my game" or some variant. For this reason, I think the part I bolded in his statement above is key....that YES there needs to be new and exciting ways to skill, BUT the option needs to still be there for those who wish to use skilling time to take care of things RL, or to multi-task on the computer, to be able to do that. Some people lead busier lives than others during the day, so they use that time that they must do RL stuff to skill their sim. I don't want to see those players not be able to play during that time since for most RL does come first, or worst yet to have people neglect RL responsibilities just to play the game and feel like they are getting their money's worth out of their monthly subscription because they are being forced to never AFK. There aren't any other games I can think of that never allow for needing to afk, as long as you don't violate their ToS doing it....so I think for TSO to do that would cause them some players, and at this point even losing a few could mean the difference for the overall future of the game.

    Just my two simoleans of course [​IMG]
     
  50. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I can think of a couple of things. Give more interactions for skilling. Make the decay at least as slow as it takes to skill. Maybe give us some more crafted items, I know I would skill more if they did, lol.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Okay, good suggestions. I notice that they are all for the end result of skilling. How do you think we can improve the actual act of skilling?

    ...or should we just trash it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    GET RID OF SKILL DECAY AND LOCKS!!!

    Like on the pc based game, once you have the skill....you have it.

    Sit down....skill it....that's it...moving on....to other things a player may want to do in the game such as crafting, hanging out, making money, exploring EAland, etc.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I understand your point, but if you think about it, this is not a good idea because of the MMORPG aspect. We need the continuous need to skill in order to keep having things to do, otherwise after a year or so all there will be to do is socialize and people can do that for free. The skill locks allow for people to never have to skill certain things again, but what happens to the skill houses once everybody has skilled a certain skill if they never have to skill again? They stop getting visitors, then they get bored because nobody's visiting their lots and they dont' want any other category because a skill lot so they give up and quit. The only way this idea would work is to have all skill lots be EA run and not player run, which may or may not be a good idea, now that I think about it......hmmmmm