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how to make archers less overpowered.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Belanos/Icicle, May 3, 2009.

  1. It occurs to me that the Balanced property is what makes archers overpowered more than anything. So, I think it would be a fair balance to either A), don't allow Balanced to be a runic property anymore (much like they did with shields and HCI), or B), allow all weapons to be crafted with the property, and not just bows.

    thoughts?
     
  2. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Yes that sure would make archers BALANCED in pvp.

    Get it? Balanced!

    No seriously though, it would.
     
  3. The Devs have already said something about this being possible in the near future, so sorry, you don't have an original idea. :lick::danceb:
     
  4. I live in the future and sort of go backwards instead of forwards in time, so it was in fact originally my idea. :p
     
  5. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Been reading Piers Anthony by chance?
     
  6. thelust6

    thelust6 Guest

    Melee chars are able to chug pots with a one handed weapon - archers don't have any archery specific one handers plus it's a runic specific attribute, so not everyone takes advantage of it and those that do have to sacrifice a different useful property on there weapon. I say keep it in game as it currently is, runic added only.
     
  7. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Archers can attack from range, meleers can't. Ammo requirements and not being able to chug potions while a bow was equipped was some of the balancing factors of Archery (Along with how slow it was back in the day). Nowadays, with Blessed/Insured Quivers and the wide availability of Arrows/Bolts, ammo requirement is no longer an issue. With the "Balanced" property on Runic made bows, neither is the inability to chug an issue. Slow wep speed is no longer an issue either with SSI, High Stamina, Repeating Crossbows and Magical Shortbows.
     
  8. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    oh please. Archers are powerful templates, but unless they fix potions being useful then they shouldn't make it so a specific template cannot use them in any way shape or form thats absurd. I think once they take out the pp quivers of rage everything will be fine. Archery is still reallly slow compared to a fencer or something, and if someone has 120 parry/bushido, which is the most popular dexer temp right now, it is unbelievably hard to compete. I say fix speedhacking and that fixes your problem. But no matter how many times i send something to the uo.com site for at least some sort of answer or pm a ea person, or post something on stratics for an a person they will not answer. Its pathetic.
     
  9. What makes archers over powered is they can range attack and melee with the same weapon.

    If a player engages them, they can arm bow and shoot with a player whacking them with a weapon. Tight quarters, should impact an archer. Woods should impact an archer.

    UO should have 2 weapon classes range and close combat. Close combat should disrupt range weapons.

    But why wouldnt you be an archer. You can fight from a range, hand to hand, have hit spells, and pretty good speed.
     
  10. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Only thing that's stopping some people to play archers (especially in PvP) is the ability to parry and evade.
     
  11. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I understand the logic of saying a one handed weapon can chug at will, while a person with a two handed weapon has to disarm to chug.

    But if you think about it, there is no bow, xbow, heavy xbow, or any other type of bow in the world that can be armed and shot one handed, while drinking a pepsi on the other hand.

    There are small xbows that can be shot one handed, but they can not be armed one handed.
     
  12. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Yea....but im sure i could hold any bow in one hand and drink a pepsi, maybe not shoot it at the same time, but chances are im running to drink a pot and not shooting anyways. Honestly, the only reason i play an archer is because to combat speeedhackers the best tool is a dismount, and a heavy xbow, outside of riding swipe, is the best dismount tool. On stratics their is a calculator for most damage per second. http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/arms.php . for all intensive purporses i put 100 STR, 150 DEX, 120 tactics, 120 anatomy, and 100 damage increase.


    A cross bow Does 37.75 DPS or damage per second

    Crossbow DPS
    (2-H) 35 18 - 22 68 - 83 23 2 37.75

    A Standard Mace..With conc blow as well...

    39.2 DPS

    DPS
    Mace 45 12 - 14 45 - 53 40 1.25 39.2

    A War Fork
    DPS
    War Fork 45 12 - 13 45 - 49 43 1.25 37.6

    Just a hair under a crossbow.



    OH I ALSO FORGOT TO MENTION!!!!!

    with the 150 dex the mace and the fork swing at 1.25s while the crossbow shoots at 2s. That is 2s inbetween to cast greater heal, chiv spells, etc. If i have a mace, conc blowing, with maybe even fireball on it. i can do more damage and faster, and disrupt spells better! Range or not ranged. Archery is just heavily used right now because it can be used and abused by a speedhacker.
    Now i know you are thinking....omg but those you have to stand next to them and a bow you cant. Does any bow have the disarm capability? No....hand to hand does. Does any bow give you the ability to parry or evade? No... hand to hand and mages could though. There hasn't been any good parry/bushido with decent DCI that on an archer ive been able to kick their ass. So in my opinion, as listed before. Fix the quiver of rage, and get the damn speed hackers out of the game, and it will be fine.
     
  13. thelust6

    thelust6 Guest

     
  14. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    lol melee people are the biggest whiners I have ever herd unless there template is the best others need nerfed lol its just silly look at the complaints on tamers look at any template that out does a melee temp and there is whining about it personally any temp the can stand in one spot and does not have to move and tanks any thing in the game need nerfed
    This crap is why i wont pvp anymore biggest cry babies I have ever heard and is one reason most people don't pvp
    the one argument I do agree with is meleeing with a bow but then again you should be able to block weapons with a bow maybe not fire back but you should be able to parry with it also people should take into account that melee people have USBS archers do not that gives great freedom too melee people you can switch types of weapons and have a much wider variety than archers do
    its funny how people only look at the things that strengthen there argument but conveniently leave out the bad parts of there arguments ....
    personally I give a crap I will continue to pvm from now on and screw pvp for now
     
  15. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    QFT on speedhacking.

    I don't really think archers are OP. The only thing that pisses me off is the ability to chain mortal people.

    Most speeders run archers so they can do their 40 dmg moving shots and never have to worry about being outrun.
     
  16. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    LEAVE my archers alone!
     
  17. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    No offense but I fail to see much logic in your OP. How does the ability to chug(an ability enjoyed/abused by EVERY other template in the game btw) make the Archer "overpowered" ??

    Excuse me for taking your words a step further but why do I never hear complaints about Archers never dying or living through huge dumps/attacks? Because they do not the same way a parry/evade busher does for example.
    That being said I have to assume that by "overpowered" Archer you mean offense. Bringing us to my point: Does anyone seriously think that the pots are why the Archer is supposedly such an offensive juggernaut? I hope not because as valuable as white/blue pots are they are damn near just as easily used by Archers without balanced bows.

    Bottom line is that pots are a huge part of the game and it was completely wrong in the past that Archers were the only template unable to use them.
    Every day I pvp against very skilled players of all templates that would for sure be even tougher if they used the pots available to them. I believe the only reasons they dont are cost and laziness. Their bad and they deserve what they get.

    Peace :)
     
  18. thelust6

    thelust6 Guest

    Bear in mind there is (no *edit*)overall god template in Uo, granted there are highly effective skill templates for pvp and pvm. In PvP my archer can survive though will rarley kill another character with a melee bushido setup - I just can't hit them frequentley enough even with max 1.25 swing, 45% hci and hld. On the other hand I fair well against templates that lack the ability to parry my shots. As link (lynk) mentioned speedhacking moving shot archers are a big problem in pvp especially when theres more than one. The Balanced property isn't really an issue for the majority or archers or there player opponents.
     
  19. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Yes you could hold a bow in one hand and drink a pepsi with the other, but it would take a moment or two to open the pepsi while the bow is in your hand.

    After that, yes you can still hold the bow and drink, but you will never be able to load the bow and fire it while holding the pepsi.

    balanced bows allow the player to pretty much insta chug with no delays at all. I know this is not IRL, but in IRL there would be some kind of delay and fumbling around before getting a shot off.

    And yes parry is the Achillies heel to archers, but at the end of the day, other than tamers, no other templates do as much damage per hit or as fast as archery.
     
  20. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Sup Goldy? Hope your doing well.

    I sure don't want to argue with you; so here are some thoughts i would love to hear your opinion on.

    Archers have always been able to use pots. Disarm, drink, arm. Correct?

    A mage with a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other hand cant chug either unless he disarms. Though it's his choice to have both hands occupied.

    Dexers who use two handed weapons have to disarm to chug.

    Yes dexers do have the ability to find a one handed weapon, but they dont have the moving shot ability that archers do or the amount of damage per hit.

    Parry as well as Bushido do hurt archers but mainly in regards to defense,not offense.

    I personally believe there should be a delay between being able to shoot with a balanced bow and chugging a pot. If you chug, you cant shoot for a second or two, if you shoot, you cant chug for a second or two until after the shot has been fired.

    Thoughts? Comments?
     
  21. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    You have got to be kidding! Do you even fight on the field? This is not the problem with balance in PVP. On my PVP archer (not a tamer/archer either) I don't carry around balanced bows, and I have yet to face another archer who can take me. Archers don't have the option to carry a one handed weapon like melee does.

    bigger issues-

    Pets in PVP

    Mages carrying spell channeling -mage weapons that gives them the same as a 120 skill for DCI. Is there even a reason for wrestling anymore?

    Disarming every other hit. There needs to be a limit to the amount of times this can be done in a period of time.
     
  22. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    So true. Huge issue with Pets in PvP, but I dont see it ever being changed.

    True, but you are leaving out the fact that the mage is now 20 points down on the magery skill. Making suit building that much more difficult.

    Yes wrestling has been nerfed along with many other skills. Another example of the short sighted design team decisions.

    Disarm is a pain but almost all mages cant disarm, unless you are including dexers in this comment.


    Here is a thought.
    Ever notice how mages suits are totally about mana and defense?

    Yet dexer suits are all about mana and offense.

    Why is this? Personally I think this is where the imbalance comes from.

    Why is it that a mage has to have DCI and a SC weapon to survive against a dexer, but a dexer doesnt need to have SRI (spell resist increase) to survive against a mage.

    Dexers can max out their templates to do huge amounts of damage really really fast, yet a mage cant do that.

    Mages having 150 Int means nothing compared to a dexer with 150 Stam.
    Spell damage increase is limited to 15 SDI for PvP, why is that when DI is at 100%?

    Increased STR on a dexer correlates to more damage output, yet increased mana on a mage doesn't increase spell damage output in PvP.

    Dexers can not only do damage with a weapon, they can also toggle a special move.

    Mages have no special moves, all they can do is cast the spell and hope it wasnt interrupted.

    And before you say it.... yes necro mages are overpowered, but they are also the most difficult template to PvP with successfully, let alone build a suit for.
     
  23. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    *Shrug*

    I say .....

    The best way to Balance all of UO PvP or PvM is to bring back the Tank Mage era.

    We were all Tank Mages, we had the same weapons, the same armor, the same stats, the same skills, the same resists, we were identical in every respect, except for the color we dyed out robes, capes etc.

    Everything being identical, it was 100% the person .... well and their connection and any cheats and any 3rd party programs ......

    Better to throw a stone in the perfectly flat, still, calm pond, than to adapt to the pond being what it is.
     
  24. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I have to say that in the past there have not been to many times that I agree with you. But this time I agree 100%.

    EA ruined UO when they made the game item based and not skill based. It was a sad sad day.

    Good post :thumbsup:

    *edit*
    I do like template diversity, but not at the expense of unbalanced skills, or making some templates more powerful than others.

    If anything each template should have its weakness, problem is some templates have no weakness... this is in regards to PvP only.
     
  25. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    OMG again with whining about archers and balanced bows....

    Listen Archers CAN NOT disarm, they can't bleed, they can't use parry of any kind... most of the ninja and bushido moves were taken away from Archers...

    If you as a dexer can't get close enough to an archer to disarm him then Boo Hoo... cry me a river. Even a mage can disarm.... if he has wrestling...

    Dexers have how many special moves available????? all of them....

    Mages..... 64 spells... plus if they are a wrestler disarm... both dexers and mages get to use shields.... both have extra slots for things on their shields... defence chance, Hit chance (if you are lucky enough to have a pre-patch sheild...)...

    Then there is the 100% LRC suit.... hum..... I don't have a 100% use less arrows quiver... No And if I want to switch from arrows to bolts... well I can only wear one quiver at a time... so I'm losing some of my stats if I am using the quiver from my pack as opposed to the one on my back.... not like a dexer with one button switch for weapons.... no macro for switching quivers.... My quiver doesn't give me extra resists either...

    There are balances to all things.... there are weakness's..... doesn't hurt a dexer that much to drop the shield and drink a pot put the shield back on.... and if the Dexer uses bushido he don't really need the shield at all.... so there he has an arm free....

    as for a mage again.... big deal drop shield drink pot rearm shield.... you can set up a one button macro for that with UOAssist.... if you don't use UOAssist that is NOT my fault... besides... NOT every archer has a Balanced bow..... Infact most of my good bows AREN'T balanced... I still one button macro to drop my bow drink a pot and rearm.... just like everyone else....

    As for the moving shot well I don't know any dexer who can't smack me several times while running.... My plan is always never to let them get that close.... apparently and it would seem to me that you lack skills in running... perhaps you should legendary your running skills before you legendary your whining skills...

    There are plus and minus's to EVERY character build..... there is NO perfect character that is going to beat every opponent they face every time... if there were then THAT would be what needs nerfed.... I guarantee that in a fight archers do NOT always win...

    Besides which I knew a few dexers who could hit me from half a screen away.... how I don't know.. but they could.... I knew some that use the ninja shirkens to inflict poison from clear across the screen.... Perhaps you just lack fighting skills..... macro's and well... skill.
     
  26. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Here is a thought:

    How about making regular bows one handed, and xbows and heavy xbows stay as two handed weapons. And remove the balanced property completely.

    These kind of changes can be made, think on the 75 EP rings that were nerfed to 50 EP.

    I don't think there is a heavy xbow in the world that can be loaded with one hand. Most have to use their foot as well during the process. Smaller xbows are almost as hard to load, let alone trying to do it one handed.

    A regular bow can have the arrow in place and the string only partially pulled back mostly while only using one hand, thus leaving the other hand free to chug and then right after the chugging, pull back on the bow string really fast to shoot.
     
  27. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    "if there were then THAT would be what needs nerfed"

    Leave that Perfect Character as is and let everyone make one, then the perfection is 100% moot and the game becomes once again Player vs Player vs Environment.

    "there is NO perfect character that is going to beat every opponent they face every time"

    The Tank Mage was real at one time, now it is a CONCEPT. If one simply stops, clears their eyes, puts on their thinking cap, then one comes to the conclusion that IF there were a PERFECT TEMPLATE (The Fabled Tank Mage), then guess what EVERYONE WOULD MAKE ONE.

    Considering that that is NOT HAPPENING, then it is clear, the very very very few are going to attempt to change everything so they can be .... what ever.
     
  28. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Agreed, but they can mortal which in most cases is way more dangerous than bleed.

    You are correct again, but when a mage puts wrestling on his template, it doesnt help that much since you need high dex and hci to get the specials off.

    In fact the main time wrestling is effective is when a mage is fighting another mage, rarely is it effective against a dexer.

    So for the mage to disarm with wrestling he still needs high HCI and dex which most mages don't have on their templates. and we dont have spellbooks with hit lower D on them to assist us in disarming you.

    True.

    Please look at the 64 spells first, then notice how 40% of them are useless in PvP or have been nerfed into oblivion.

    You are still forgetting that having 15 HCI from a shield is meaningless on a mage with very low dex.

    Essentially we have the ability to not use/lose regs with 100LRC. You have the same ability with a quiver. You dont lose your arrows upon death.

    I've never seen archers change quivers in the middle of a fight, in fact most ive seen wear the same quiver always. But who knows I may be wrong.

    With that said you can change weapons (bow to xbow) without having to change quivers.. ala arrows to bolts.

    And your quiver does give some extra properties along with whatever type of bow you are using.

    With that said, then it doesn't hurt an archer to drop his weapon to chug and then re-arm.


    Let me tell you that as a mage dropping a shield to drink a pot can get you killed so fast you wouldn't believe it. Again, if it's no big deal for me to drop a shield or weapon to chug, then why cant you do the same on an archer?
     
  29. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Actually, INT does give SDI, I believe it's 1 SDI per 10 INT points.
     
  30. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Yes but after the initial 15 SDI which we will have from items, no more adds up for PvP.

    I have also tested it with 100 Int and 120 Int and their was no difference in damage output
     
  31.  
  32. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    True...... but so can any dexer..... and it's easily negated in under 2 seconds by apples.


    The specials on a quiver besides the 5% defense chance..... only work with the arrows/bolts in the quiver..... since you can only put one OR the other in the quiver then if I've got bolts IN the quiver and I switch over to a bow that uses arrows I no longer get the property bonus's of that quiver... (Now this is from memory with a long, long ago FoF question but I am pretty darn certain that was the answer and it IS rather apparent when you do switch least it seems that way to me to confirm or back-up that) And there is NO way to change your quiver from one to another without stopping and changing it manually far as I know.... ) The arrows will come out of a quiver in your pack but so long as that quiver isn't Equipped you WON'T get the bonus for it. Outside the reduction in weight.


    Well dropping my bow doesn't do me any favors either.... nor does it help to get X boxed or anything else... if your a mage you could always do the gimp Xbox but... that's super gimp... I don't think it takes Dex for wrestling..... the dex is tied to parry on a mage... not wrestling..... far as I can recall.
     
  33. thelust6

    thelust6 Guest

    As others have mentioned above, pets are a more pressing issue in pvp than the balanced property, if balance changes are made soon I'm sure a lot of pvpr's would appreciate pets to be near if not at the top of the list of balance changes.
     
  34. This is incorrect. The quiver that is equipped is the one that takes precedence over any that may be in your pack.

    For best results, equip the quiver of your choice, then use 2 Quiver of the Elements to store both arrows and bolts in your pack, since it is the only quiver with 50% weight reduction.
     
  35. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I'm pretty sure that increased dex on a mage makes him punch faster. I'll go test it out on test center.

    I do know that on my inscribe mage with wrestling, rarely gets a para stun of or disarm off against a dexer. In fact if we duel I am lucky to get 2 specials off, because most dexers seem to either parry them, or I just wiff, or it seems like i don't even swing to hit the person for the special to even go off.

    *edit*
    According to Stratics, dex is tied to how ofter you swing in Wrestling.
    It even says tactics and anatomy are tied to the amount of damage a wrestler does, and swing speed increase also speeds up wrestling hits.

    http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/wrestling.php

    Kinda silly that a skill which initially was to aid mages, requires all the dexer attributes to be effective.
     
  36. Cybrdragon

    Cybrdragon Guest

    What's so funny about all this is that we had this same conversation so many years ago... archers were OP, so they were nerfed into the ground and made useless.. We waited sooo long for archers to useful again... and now it's coming up again after so many players have re-made or dusted off their archers because they are actually useful again. My, how history repeats itself. Will any MMO ever have true balance between classes/templates? I doubt it. It must suck for the devs that try to balance pvp/pve endlessly. I don't know why some MMO doesn't just make pvp/pve have different properties. It would solve the endless crying from both sides of the communities about how some nerf/attempt at "balance" ruined their template. *sigh* Silly devs/players. :)
     
  37. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    thats exactly what i do
     
  38. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I honestly think that they have class or skill imbalances on purpose.

    This makes people take the time (game time) to change their templates so that they can compete.

    This lasts for a year or so, then EA makes a few changes, and we now have a new uber template.. What better way to keep accounts active.

    Lather Rinse Repeat.

    If they truly balanced the game, it would force EA to come up with original ideas and concepts to keep people interested. I just don' think they care that much about UO to put that kind of effort into it. That is, in regards to PvP.

    For PvM and Tram, EA seems to pretty much be on track with that... although I can't say for sure because my game time in Tram is very limited so I may be wrong about PvM balance.
     
  39. Ironhand1

    Ironhand1 Guest

    It is not the chugging, aids, apples, etc that makes archers over powered. It is moving shot and the damage they can inflict (got hit with a 60 conc blow last night in a all 70 corpse proof suit with no curses on me-- granted it was one of the best crossbows i have seen and the guy had a bugged DI quiver).

    Leave chugging a lone, tweak the hit chance on moving shot some more, and make it so nobody (not even tamers, dexers, mages, etc) can 60 hit someone. These slight changes would go a long way for balancing pvp.
     
  40. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    While they are at it fix disarm. make it so on wrestlers can disarm like it used to be. using an axe to disarm someone is just stupid. Or atleast put a timer between disarms like para blows..

    hell I'd be happy with just the timer.
     
  41. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    like i said a long long way up this post, the quiver of rage is the biggest issue. once it is gone things will be better. I'd still like ea to stop turning their cheek on godamn speedhacking though.
     
  42. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Remove dismount from Archery - double clicking someone to dismount them is a huge advantage over someone who has to be standing right next to an opponent who's mounted, while your on foot.

    Add the possibility of the [balanced] property to all 2 handed weapon types.

    Make the HCI penalty for moving shot much more than the current -10%. It should be -25% or more.

    The advantage to archery is hitting at a range. The advantage to melee is supposed to be hitting on the run. There is no reason why 3 skills should be forced into just ONE template (ie. samurai all because of parry and bushido) when archery works fine as chiv archer, ninja stealth archer, and so on.

    That'll just about do it... oh and also fix the runic kits for saws and fletching kits while you're at it too.

    Thanks.
     
  43. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok, we'll just pretend you didn't talk.

    Removing dismount from archery LOL.
    And they aren't forced into one template. you don't "need" bushido to parry, you can hold a shield if you want. an archer can't parry at all. i suppose you think they should get rid of Bolas too... riding swipe is way more effective then dismounting with archery...by far. You can hit them, which paras them, dismount them, which also makes it so they HAVE to heal their pet before remounting. So by your logic, i think they should add disarm and bleed to archery. I also see nothing wrong with moving shot, quiver of rage and speedhacking is the problem with moving shot, making moving shot do a ton of dmg and the person never fall behind, even while hit spells are churned out of the bow, which causes the normal people to pause for a second.
     
  44. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Ok, well pretend you make sense.

    To be competative? What are the MAJORITY of dexer PvPers? Oh!! They are archers. Oh wait... why is that...? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that archery provides more benefits than any of the other combat skills.

    And to stay competative... there is only ONE competative dexer template for the 3 melee skills and that is a samurai.

    what in the **** made you suppose I think this beyond stupid assumption you present me with?

    So you say, that if I'm NOT an archer... I have to do something OTHER than just double click someone to dismount them.

    GREAT.

    THANKS.

    When they give a melee character the ability to chuck a knife, dagger, club, mace, spear, whatever at your archers face from a distance in the form of a special move, THEN you can talk about disarm or bleed.

    So to summarize, I don't give 2 ****s from shynola's ass crack what you see nothing wrong with. You make no sense, your jibberish is almost impossible to decode and you just want to keep archers overpowered. Well, tough and too bad because I am not alone when I say that Archery needs to be tweaked.

    Thanks

    Bye.
     
  45. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    As a dexer if you didnt go with archery you are already one step behind the majority dexers (archers). Now if you went with melee and picks up parry and do NOT pick up bushido for evasion you are now gimping yourself. For the very least evasion samurai do have superior survivability and is probably the only thing that come close to Archer's flexibility and power.

    And a lot of archer also have melee weapon skill just so they can disarm, and bleed. In case you have no idea, disarm archer is a proven template that works very very well in PvP. Problem is you really cant fit archery on to a samurai template unless you are super gimp and have the right equipments. Even Samurais have zero defense after a disarm archer got them disarmed followed by moving shot spam.

    Do you know how effective it is to do disarm moving shot spam on two disarm archers? There's no running away. Lets dont even get into the dismounting part of archery. Bola has an amazing long delay before it can dismount someone, shows a message to warn everyone around you even if you are hidden, and people can actually RUN AWAY FROM IT. Archery dismount is the only INSTANT, RANGED dismount in UO. Let me ask you why isnt there a melee ninja stealth dismounter? I mean you cant even do Death Strike at full damage with a bow, you cant do any other attacks like you could with melee skill on a ninja... WHY are the stealth dismounter all archers?

    On my shard when we say "stealther" it's automatically assuming that the stealther is also an archer. I do know 1 guy who plays a stealth fencer, but then he sucks (not really) at dismounting because in PvP people are moving all the time. Melee dismounter has to get into 1 tile range (covering 9 tiles) to do a dismounting attempt while a HXbow can cover 7tile radius 109 tiles that's more than 1000% the coverage on any melee dismounter.... duh.

    You can run away from 10 melee dexer very very easily, But against 10 archers... unless they run on 1000 ping or have no idea how to double click and toggle moving shot, you are dead. (actually all you really need is 2 to 3 archers to do it).

    Archers might not be overpowered but they do have more advantages that easily outweights parry/bleed/disarm and dont require 2 extra skill to do it.

    Now if archery is no better than melee, how is that most of the gimp tamer pvpers are archers? Why are stealthers willing to sacrifice such a powerful attack like Death Strike and uses archery as main attack? :cursing:
     
  46. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Stealth dexer dismounters only have to shadow jump to get close for a dismount.. I know because I play one regularly.

    Archery is not that OP and hvy xbow dismounts are needed for the speedhackers.

    As for ppl being able to run away when they see a bola... I can teleport to follow.

    IMO the following things would balance archery -

    Increased hit chance penalty for moving shot
    Double the mana cost for moving shot
    Fix QoR

    (I'd also like a timer for mortal wound that is target based [i.e. I can only be mortaled once every 5 seconds] but lets not get greedy)


    And as always, ban the speedhackers.
     
  47. 45 posts and 600+ views for my lil idea thread. I feel so... popular.

    don't you dare disillusion me :mad:
     
  48. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    The majority of pvpers are archers because it is the best template to speedhack with, an archer is dependant on staying away from someone, which brings drawbacks such as the inability to a parry and others. Because SO much of uo is infested with speedhackers, archer usage is getting bigger. Though because of that im starting to see the usage of speedhacking bushido swordsmen alot more too.

    I bring up the bola analogy because you believe all you have to do is "double click" to dismount. Its not like an archer has some strange ability to remount after dismounting someone, they are of foot, making them more susceptible because they are a charactor that relys on staying Xtiles away from someone.

    Why everyone has to complain about every template i dont understand, the only truely overpowered templates in uo right now are people that pvp with pets. Outside of that, and outside of the speedhacking trash, every template including archery has advantages and disadvantages. Archer is higher on offense but is potentially completely countered by a bushido/parry dexer or a 4/6 parry dexer for that matter. a standard bushido dexer is countered by not having resist, thus making them susceptible to a mages mana vamp/drain/para etc. Any mage is countered by any type of dexer, for instance, i have a have a hell of a time killing a 4/6 dexer with a mage unless i fight them like a mage, but then the weapon gets you. Does anyone remember when EVERYONE cried that the 4/6 dexer was just too overpowered? now its a template seldom seen.
     
  49. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Diminished returns on subsequent pot use (within a set time frame) is the cure...not nerfing a class.
     
  50. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    If they did that for cures then poisoning would be fun again.