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How to unnerf thieves while benefitting everyone - A Satchel.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Shinobi, Jun 3, 2011.

?

Would a Satchel be an acceptable addition to UO?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. No

    40 vote(s)
    83.3%
  1. Shinobi

    Shinobi Guest

    This new item would finally bring some life to thieves, while pleasing everyone. The new item would be called "A Satchel" (because of its capabilities, maybe "A Magic Satchel"). The item would be equipped on a player's paperdoll, appearing around the waist (if possible, it would have its own new equipment slot, so it doesn't replace the half apron or sash slots).

    This satchel will be an equippable container, which is blessed like certain quivers. Anything placed inside will become "half-blessed". Upon death, anything inside the satchel will remain inside, as if blessed. However, the items inside a satchel can be stolen by a thief in ANY facet (Trammel, Felucca, Malas, etc.). Players may use this for transport of cursed items, or just as extra inventory. Neither blessed, nor insured, items may be placed in the satchel.

    So what happens if you are robbed in Luna? Simple: the return of perma-grey status for thieves in all facets. Thieves are already lootable in all facets, make us attackable too. After a stealing attempt from a satchel (yes, they would be snoopable), a thief will turn grey (if it was a Noticed Steal) and become attackable. If attacked, the thief may fight back. If the thief kills the victim, they may NOT loot the corpse (unless in Felucca, of course). If the thief escapes, he/she will remain grey to the victim permanently, or until finally killed by them. Only bring perma-grey back for satchel robbing, so as to not upset other thieves who do not wish for perma-grey to return.

    All parties would know the consequences of using satchels. Thieves get a little love, everyone gets a new partial-blessed inventory and the added joy of murdering thieves in all areas.

    Please vote above on whether or not you think the idea is an acceptable addition to the game (honest feedback please). Also, feel free to reply with any feedback or suggestions.
     
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Most people, including myself, wouldn't want to use the item.

    I have no impression this would satisfy most thieves who post on these forums either.

    And I dread to think of the code involved.

    -Galen's player
     
  3. Shinobi

    Shinobi Guest

    Regardless of whether or not you personally would use it, do you agree it could be implemented into the game without harming either side?

    EDIT: Sorry if that came off as rude, I guess I need to add more to the poll.

    DOUBLE EDIT: I don't think I can fix the poll options at this point. Please everyone just continue to post whether or not you would use it, and whether you think it is an acceptable addition.
     
  4. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    wth? So like, I have to wear a sign advertising to thieves:

    "Hey, I've got the magic bag of stealing on! Come and get the goodies I was stupid enough to put in there while I was hanging out at the bank."

    Yeah, it might work.
     
  5. Shinobi

    Shinobi Guest

    Haha. Hey, I can already see players putting something decent in a satchel to lure thieves out of hiding and into a Trammel fight, lol.
     
  6. Myphsar

    Myphsar Lore Keeper
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    So when you die, where would the satchel with cursed items be?
    On your corpse or on your ghost (like blessed items as you expain)
    So, Go to fel, do champ, get scrolls and put them in satchel so they are half blessed?
    Satchel lootable by thieves, but if no thieves around they are safe in satchel?
    Cool, no reason to leave a spawn in a hurry.
     
  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    LOL Yeah..... that's it...

    OMG No.... it would not work... really do you honestly think people WANT that??? Yes I want a magic bag so someone will steal from me!

    LOL.... Right HAHAHAHAHHAHA
     
  8. Specialshoes

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    I like anything that would bring thieves back to life but this is the equivalent of walking into "that end of town" with 100 dollar bills taped all over you.
     
  9. Aerodice

    Aerodice Adventurer
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    This idea has a lot of flaws. Why would somebody want to put something in this pouch and half-bless it when they can just insure it? What benefit is there when insurance is so cheap and guarantees that your item won't be stolen or lost in the first place? Sure you can put cursed items in there but that defeats the purpose of a cursed item and brings with it huge flaws (as somebody already mentioned, during champion spawns). I can only see this being of benefit for supplies that cannot be insured or supplies that are worth losing such as bandages and other items.
     
  10. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    /Sarcasm

    Well...you seem to miss the point...

    This is to Help Out Thieves! Everyone who plays a thief will LOVE having this addition, and everyone who DOESN'T play a thief can wear one so they can potentially lose stuff!!

    What is NOT to Love!!??

    /End Sarcasm

    Good Lord. I try to be empathetic to others, mostly, but putting anything into a MMORPG that will help grief other players is just never, ever going to be a healthy thing to do, IMO.

    I haven't done any research on the subject, honestly...but how can letting people steal from others ever be good to help a game grow? Ever?

    How many games, in the MMORPG market, that have tens of thousands of players or more ALLOW stealing to happen, at all?

    If the answer is "None or virtually none" then that speaks volumes to me. If the answer is "There are TONS of other games out there that allow stealing!!" then I say go play those amazingly fun and attractive games, and leave UO alone.

    My bet, if I was a betting man, would be that the first scenario (i.e. No games to speak of allow Stealing from other players) is likely the one that applies.

    I could be wrong, and if I am, I will eat my words, but I am thinking I will just need to have lunch today, like usual. :)
     
  11. King_Fisher

    King_Fisher Journeyman
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    I can see people using it to hold all their blessed worthless items, like spell books/runebooks. Then using their new main Clutter free bag for the good stuff. Solid attempt to bring the thieving community back, but not enough.

    Don't Worry the devs are looking out for thieves, just think of all that copper wire for stills we get to steal.... rollseyes:

    This new wire thieving makes me feel like im stealing copper power cables in my own neighbourhood just to take em to the recycler for beer money.


    Come On Devs Show The Thieves Some Love!!! :grouphug:
     
  12. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    I think its an interesting idea... tho it needs work. Would be cool to store pots in. Maybe an added benefit would be it reduces weight by 20% or something like that.
     
  13. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    I think a reg pot and bandage bag would be cool that none or no mob could loot and after being rezed would be in your pack and you had to pay to keep it charged like 1000 gold per death or something
     
  14. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    UO is too complicated as it is for new players. Adding another dimension to where they could be tricked doesn't sit well with me. I'd be more willing to vote to get rid of insurance in Felucca before this idea.
     
  15. Mongbat137

    Mongbat137 Visitor

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    Dear thieves,

    None of us enjoys being stolen from. If that's what it takes for you to have fun, then nobody really cares if you have any fun. I'm pretty sure there's only like six of you left anyway.

    Signed,
    Everyone who is not a thief
     
  16. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Personally, I'd like to see Thieves get gold from stealing insured items (the insure value of the item).
     
  17. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    ah like ah NO!
     
  18. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    Hmm....

    I kinda like this idea.
    There needs to be a benefit for the non-thieves too.

    Maybe killing you when you steal gives Justice?
     
  19. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Maybe I´m just extra dumb today but I couldn´t make out the benefits to "the targets" in the OP. :(

    Would it work like a second backpack with an additional 125 items to carry?
     
  20. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I may own a few dozen thiefs over the shards but I draw the line at stealing from my fellow players! They worked hard to get what they have. So did I. One of the reasons many fled Fel was the thiefs... how many of us were griefed to death to get back our runes or keys.. all they could steal!! and many just threw them in the trash if you didnt give them gold. Im not saying a few k they wanted alot more. To even suguest this ......

    NO Thiefs already make $ off arties they steal. They dont need to start to grief players again.
     
  21. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    PVP thieving will never make a comeback on Production shards at all, never mind making the jump over to the Trammel facets.
     
  22. Ancient Sosarian

    Ancient Sosarian Journeyman
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    Emphatic NO!

    Restrict thieves to felucca, or rid the entire world of thieves ...Period!

    Thieves were every bit responsible for the max exodus of Felucca as the griefers, gankers, and pkillers.

    An SoS
     
  23. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    If that satchel worked for loot (gold, gems, ingredients, etc..) I would use it.

    All the stuff that can't be insured or is a waste of gold to insure I would happily toss into the satchel and let the thieves have a go at it. The risk would be worth it in my book.
     
  24. Shin you made yourself a thief in tram by guild killing players. I remember your excitement talking about how you stole a demon statue and blah blah.

    Cause of your character's character, I have to say their is a reason thieving was nerfed and you embody it in your play style.

    I cant really support your idea...
     
  25. Shinobi

    Shinobi Guest

    So, maybe there's a few flaws. Thieves need something at this point. That copper wire crap is hilariously insulting if they consider that helping PvP thieves.

    PvP thieves are by far the most unique characters in UO, if not all mmorpgs. No two of them are alike. For some reason, thieves have had the most "style" of any type of character, probably because they don't have to wear all of the necessary armor that other classes need to be good, allowing for full customization.

    What other class has stories as entertaining as thieves? I've yet to see an interesting story from a tamer: "And so, I saw the monster spawn and said 'all kill'. Wouldn't ya know it, he dropped a good item!"

    PvPers can kill a player and loot ALL of his items, so let's nerf them...introducing "Avatar Insurance"! For just 600 gold, you can avoid death itself. Oh, and let's give monsters insurance for their items as well.

    You want a gold sink? Something to revive Felucca? Something to possibly help thieves? Make insurance cost 10% of what you have in your bank, rather than a pathetic 600 gold. Half of that goes into the gold sink, half goes to a player who kills the insurer, and now people will be more careful with insurance resulting in more uninsured items.

    Thieves can still make gold through tactics such as guild stealing, but that can get old and isn't the most honorable method. Thieves are players too, that's all I'm saying.
     
  26. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    well what I have come to learn is no matter what is done to uo you need clap and say awesome great I love it. and all will be ok....ha

    I do think your on to something tho
     
  27. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    I think some folks are missing the benefit to be gained from using such an item. Simply put for those that don't get it, if you have an item that cannot be insured, by using this item it would allow it to be halfway insured. Meaning, upon death, it stays with you just like a blessed item, the only way for you to lose the item would be having it stolen.

    Alas, I still cannot support it but for other reasons other than just not liking thieves. IE: In fel it would remove the chance of someone killing another player from looting said cursed item as it would stay with the ghost. Thus helping thieves, but nerfing the PvP'er.
     
  28. while pleasing everyone.

    :lol:
    nope... doesn't ...
    I am unaware of even a small majority ... err minority ... of players that are very concerned about thieves lack of opportunity to steal ...

    Just saying ... those that are: leave stuffs high in their pack >to be stolen<.

    ie. don't need no stinking satchel.
     
  29. Wizal the Fox

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    This would never work. First the logic of Trammel if that nobody can do any kind of harm/grief to any player under any condition, so this satchel will never be allowed to work in Trammel. Then in Fel nobody will ever use it for anything that can't be stolen in the first place (insured or blessed items), so basically all it would do will be to help players loosing stuff to pks, but won't bring back any thief.

    I used to play a thief a long time ago, and I continued to play it even if overtime it became harder and harder. The ONE nerf that completely killed it was to disallow the stealing of unblessed containers containing blessed/insured items. That was the LAST thing a skilled thief could hope for and it was rare enough that you could spend several days without seeing a stealing opportunity. When that last opportunity was finally gone, so were the thieves.

    Think of it that way: Thieves will never come back unless there is at least an extremely tiny chance of stealing a good item (let's say something worth over 1m). The only currently stealable things in that category are Champs stuff (PS and arties that people haven't had time to insure), but obviously no one carry them until the very end of a champ, and it makes no sense to play a thief spending a lot of time stealthing around a champ for an extremely small chance of grabbing a good item while he has a much better chance to cast a stupid WOD on the Champ to get the drop himself.

    Basically to have thieves back, you must find a way that people carry good stealable things when NOT doing a champ. That means a lot more stuff should be cursed (starting with all Faction arties)
     
  30. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    The saddest part is most "thieves" are just scammers

    they work hard to get a pplayer to go to fel move items around causing them to be unisured, and steal them, or sneak a char into a guild to take items.

    I know this is thievery but in a game were there are truly innocent players (children) who really dont know or are learning the game mechanics this is just another way to grief them.

    It is truly sad when player look to find ways to take advantage of those lesser learned or experienced.

    How about if a thief is caught stealing or identified by a dectetive and his char is placed no a bulitene board he is perma grey to ALL players wo read the wanted poster and a bounty is put on his head. Every time a player kills this thief and takes an id item back to a sherrif he is rewarded.

    players who want to be thieves and wander in tram shoud face the consequences of law abiding citizens.

    so how about we add this to game

    Thieving kill is not transaferable to another char, Char once identified is colored Grey FOREVER for time lmites like a murder is.

    be thankful you are still alowed to wander in tram and conive others to fel so you can take advantage of them.
     
  31. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    Funny how people get all huffy over a thief presenting a new idea to try to do something to bring back the thief class, but nobody says anything at all about how it's unfair that we're freely lootable in Trammel. Talk about a double standard..

    It's also odd that when someone tries to present an idea that would make everything a little less based on trickery, you shoot it down, and then accuse us all of tricking and scamming and blah blah etc., etc. rolleyes:

    The only thing I've been able to do as a thief that wouldn't include "tricking some poor nub" and still make a decent living is burglary, but half the people on here would consider that "tricking some poor nub" even if the person I'm burglarizing is a 12-year vet that still hasn't learned the difference between the reveal spell and skill. :lol:

    Irregardless, I voted "no" because I didn't like the idea.

    And please, this isn't meant as a flame to anyone or the group of you... I'm sure by now some have noticed "my mood" is always "amused".
     
  32. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Thieves have life. What's your point? There are plenty of valuable items for Thieves to steal daily.

    Do you mean that you want to change things so that your current & viable thief can also be a player griefer? Uhh, no ty.

    Thieves long ago were messed up and able to just plain grief all other players. It was childish & wrong so the Devs correctly addressed it. Get over it. Every template in the game has been nerfed/changed many times over. Why do a few misguided Thieves believe that they are the only template that was nerfed lmao? Just because a skill/template was abused long ago does not mean that it should be restored.
     
  33. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Fact:
    Back in the day Thieves were grossly overpowered & just plain wrong>
    A naked player with no skill & absolutely nothing to lose mashes 2 macro keys & Disarms a valuable weapon & steals it at the same time with no possible repercussion.
    What kind of mentally challenged child thinks that was okay?

    Fact:
    Back in the day you had a Thief & you had a victim. There was no in-between.
    Thieves want to do what? Change things today to create more victims? Yeah... thats a popular notion lmao.

    Thief...
    Victim...

    Thief...
    Victim...

    Lather, rinse, repeat with 0 repercussions for the Thief...

    Who doesnt want some more of that today lol?

    What have the Dev's been missing all this time? Lets do some new promotions advertising that UO is full of powerful Thieves. What new & defenseless player wouldnt wanna pay $13 a month to get robbed every minute?

    *shakes head*
     
  34. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    I love how your definition of "griefing" is anything that causes you to lose and someone else to win.

    I'm going to start using that everywhere...

    Get passed up on a promotion at work....zomg...my boss is griefing me!

    Someone frags me in UT2004....zomg....griefer!

    your "facts" are also about as hilarious and delusional as the "common knowledge" that fel was "so overrun by pk's" before tram that you couldn't do anything. (which is mostly spread around by people who started after AOS anyways...)

    on the production shards? aside from bandage and pots, unless you're willing to commit near all your time to doing nothing but camp the baracoon spawns there hasn't been much worth stealing since pub5.

    Basically, lets make an analogy since other people don't seem to "get it"....If we were tamers, our current state is basically every pet in the game has been removed except the horse and the llama. Sure, there's "plenty" we can do......

    EM events were one of the few remaining large events where a theft was possible....
     
  35. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    As far as I know, that is still true. Only the EM him/herself is affected by this rule change.
     
  36. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    Back in the day they were overpowered due to disarm? You must have been playing a different game than me. Disarm wasn't possible before UO:R and after, well calling a thief overpowered would be silly.

    Basically, you're coming off as a real jerk. I suppose you're shocked if anyone's idea of fun in UO is different than your own. I for one, enjoy the interaction between players (good or bad) far more than I do just killing mobs or doing whatever you probably consider fun.

    Oh and maybe you could answer this for me. Who was being robbed every minute they played? Only people I can think of are ones who were completely new or just completely naive. Today you would fall under the later.

    But I guess I'm just mentally challenged?
     
  37. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    If you want to play one go to Siege. It is the only for real shard there is left to play on. I have been jacked on Siege right inside Luna bank and before I could figure out what happen the person was gone (to late for guards) If you thieves want to play for real go to SP or else keep stealing bandies at yew gate or stupid planters and spider webs.
     
  38. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    take away the stealing part and i would LOVE this..

    a satchel.. placed in the quiver slot.
    holds bandages.. gives 5 dci, blessed like a quiver of infinity, bandages inside also blessed like a quiver.. holds 500. also has the lower weight like a quiver.

    please ignore the stealing part.. but we need this satchel.. all of my chars have an empty quiver of infinity for the dci, a satchel would be a useful replacement.
     
  39. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    my tamer could use this