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(Question) How valid will this election be? Anarchy reigns.

Discussion in 'UO Europa' started by Bobar, Nov 26, 2011.

  1. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    From what I observed to today this election has descended into chaos and will apparently be decided by whomsoever has the most trial accounts.

    The top 2 candidates at the last round of voting scored 87 and 86 votes respectively after FOUR rounds of voting. Today one contestant scored 102 after a single hour. The parade of characters dressed in newbie paladin outfits and mage robes clutching 12 spell spellbooks was seemingly endless and only ceased when the voting booth closed.

    My interest in participating has accordingly ceased as I have now lost interest in the result of what should have been a true contest. I am aware there are actually no rules in how candidates should behave but those who have conformed to decent principles will now be disadvantaged. It may be that any actual contestant was not at fault but to me at least it has shown that the final result will not necessarily be a won by the most popular candidate, but will probably be by a manipulated result.

    I am glad I was not inclined to throw my hat into the ring for this election because the exhibition today would have disappointed me greatly and my commiserations to those that will now inevitably lose.
     
  2. Escaflowne

    Escaflowne Crazed Zealot
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    I knew folks were voting with alt characters which to be honest is fine, 1 vote per character. Those were used fully functional characters. But i did not know people were making new characters or trial accounts?
     
  3. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Yep no objection at all to several fully fledged characters or even new chars in training from the same account voting as they are all in effect members of the population. But what I saw was too obvious to be mistaken. Whoever was responsible was mostly removing the 'young' tag but leaving them with just the basic starter clothes/equipment and sometimes there were 2 or 3 present at the same time. Sad but true. I have no idea of the total numbers of votes cast today but I imagine it was very high compared with any day in the last sessions.

    The use of trial accounts is unfortunately always with us in many aspects of the game today and this seems to be another.
     
  4. Escaflowne

    Escaflowne Crazed Zealot
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    Well we'll see how it turns out i guess. Im sure whoever wins will do a good job anyway :) I know i've had fun just participating, even if i lose it was a good ride :D
     
  5. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Well, at the risk of boring you all with part of my own education (I'm a politics graduate, and am tangentially involved in a campaign in real life now) one of the problems of any democracy is "Mixed Motivation Voting". What this means is that you don't necessarily know what the electorate means when they put a tick on the box to a simple party/politician ticket. They could be agreeing with that candidates positions, what they think those positions are (but may not be), with the fact that they aren't Politician Y instead (a vote for change itself), that they get a sense of personal "likeability" from that person... and so forth.

    Now, I share an Alliance with Alaster, who is I believe far and away the current leader in votes; thus an awful lot of those Youngs we've seen today (and I did see it too) will have voted for him. But I can absolutely swear that Alaster hasn't encouraged, and probably doesn't even know where those votes are coming from either.

    I would also just like to add that Escaflowne, the current second placed Candidate I also don't believe is lying, and is also genuinely innocent of where the votes came from too. But I want to use Alaster as an example, and because I'm just as in the dark despite being closer to him, it will be more illustrative.

    So... I offer you a couple of suggestions to illustrate some of the possible reasons for such a voting response;

    1.) It's a positive vote for Alaster, because they actually want him as Lord Protector.
    2.) It's a positive vote for Alaster, but because he's their friend.
    3.) It's a negative vote against one, or many of the current front runners, because they don't like their policies. (This will likely be my final vote, as Alaster does a lot things, but what he mostly doesn't do is cause any harm, or discord.)
    4.) It's a negative vote against another candidate, out of personal animus.
    5.) It's a vote against the entire Lord Protector system, in the hopes that constant talk of pants will discredit it. Or the EMs who thought of it.
    6.) Or it's an attempt to vote against a serious Lord Protector, but they are positively voting for a crazy pants stealing one because they think that will be fun. Or not involve being micro-managed like a po-faced protector might try to do. They want to positively re-define the role itself.
    7.) Alaster has promised them all pants, and winter is coming so they think they will need as many pairs as possible...

    Which is it? As I say, none of us have any clue! You can of course add plenty of your own guesses; Now, I know there's a lot of debate about whether "Alaster" and "Escaflowne" or even "Aron" the characters would ever think about things like this; They have their own agenda to push in game, from within in their role played character. However once you take the role of Lord Protector, these real life mixed motivations will still exist and, and this is vitally important, are going to continue to shape future events, so you had better be able to deal with them out of character.

    Why? Pick a potential reason from the above, and now think about what it would mean at an EM event. Are the people behind the Trial accounts going to stop being motivated by what ever it is they care about? If it's examples 4 & 5 for instance, they're going to probably try and grief events, or at the very least, disrupt you whilst taking the Lord Protectors role. And that's going to ruin it for everyone else. Possibly 1 & 2 would have a similar ruinous effect, but through the mechanisms of claimed "Bias" and "Favouritism" instead...

    In effect, the winner is going to be a Mini-Event Manager, will be taking a meta-game role of conflict and crisis management. Which is why I've subtly tried to raise this issues with my own campaign in turn. We're going to have to listen to what people want, and our characters are going to have to learn to stay balanced on top of them. Or we can pull the entire edifice down on our heads by being unwilling to compromise, or openly discuss our issues outside of our in game characters, and make the role completely unworkable; how soon after election when will the first "Recall The Protector!" demand come do we think, because they weren't what they thought they were voting for, in theory or practice or both?

    Either way we are committing ourselves to defining the in game experience of a huge group of people whose motivations we aren't sure of for months ahead. And I don't think we have the right to do that, just because we like our own policies best of course...

    And I hope you, the electorate are seriously considering this problem too. Theory is all well and good, but which candidates will pragmatically lead to the best future for as many of us as possible?
     
  6. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    'And I hope you, the electorate are seriously considering this problem too. Theory is all well and good, but which candidates will pragmatically lead to the best future for as many of us as possible?'.

    This is the point which my post concerns and why I am no longer interested in the final result.

    It now DOES NOT MATTER which candidate may or may not have led to the best future for us. The winner is being decided for us, not by the majority of players, but a small number of people using trial accounts.

    The whole election has been rendered meaningless and all the effort and thought of those who will be the losing candidates pointless, not because of any lack of endeavour or consideration on their part, but because the use of trial accounts has destroyed their entitlement to a fair result.

    The eventual winner will now be to a large extent discredited, what a wonderful platform to launch a new role from.
     
  7. Esdejie

    Esdejie Visitor
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    Hi all. I'm not a so old player: any 30 monthes only. I don't understand why this scrutin hasn't been restricted to chars with more than 2 monthes of existence. This should have granted more transparency, in a fact. I'm a PWAL player since perhaps 2 years (playing Marie Yevoupas). Let's say... there are 2 or 3 things in our naked guild. One is naturally to laugh while playing. Another is to help other players. And naturally to respect them. Because respect comes first; help follows respect.
    An election whom result would be meaningless? That would be sad. So i say: make it again; and don't allow too young chars or accounts, that is all.
    Do you know a land where presidents can be elected by tourists? I don't.
     
  8. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    Well, Adol and Esdejie has well resumed what i think on this.

    To be honest, yes, i asked for some support on players around me (like "hey, bring your chars and vote for me!"), but omg, this kind of trial accounts overwhelming doesn't fit in the respect i want to give to those elections, and players interested by them.

    Maybe this has been some "overreacting" from people really wanting to support, or maybe it has been some "effort ruining" by people not caring at all, and it could be also everything in between. In fact, i don't know, but as Aron said, that's not the type of rigged elections i'd asked for.

    So i'll take what marie (esdejie) said, i'd follow it : re make this round, if possible by limiting young accounts to participe. Or maybe the current votes from 2 last days can be pruned from trial accounts ? I don't really know.

    But what i know, is that i want things to be fair. We have some good candidates, debates have been interesting, the whole thing has been fun, i would not like see the whole ruined.
     
  9. EM Emile Layne

    EM Emile Layne UO Event Moderator
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    Ok guys, calm down, take a deep breath :)

    First of all, while I really appreciate you're taking these Elections so seriously you should all realize the Lord Protector title is just that, a title. The winner of the elections will certainly get some nice roleplaying opportunities but there aren't any prizes involved or any real 'power' and it won't last forever.
    The ultimate goal of these elections is to generate some interesting roleplaying situations. And I dare say, so far it's been pretty successful in that regard, thanks to all of you :)

    Second, looking at the results of this weekend's voting they do look a bit inflated. But even if half of Alaster's votes were from trial accounts, it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome. He's just a popular candidate.
    I'd vote for him as well. When you wear drafty robe all year around, indeed undergarments are very important! ;)

    And finally, if it turns out you don't like the new Lord Protector: See if you can find support and start a movement against 'the alliance'. That would be yet another interesting roleplaying opportunity :)
     
  10. Kou (DoT)

    Kou (DoT) Guest

    Vote Kou for rebellion leader!
     
  11. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    In all fairness, it has to be pointed out that most of Sosaria wouldn't be missing their pants and suffering draughts in the nether regions if Alaster hadn't stolen them in the first place! Even the alliance, who he promised would be immune, are suffering!
     
  12. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I don't see it as 'ruined' by this, and a recount or re-run of the stage would probably be going too far - as far as I'm concerned, Alaster asked his friends to support him, and maybe they got a little carried away. No big problem and certainly not something to cause a major disruption to the flow of the election.

    There is, of course, a potential there for someone to engineer a total farce by bringing in loads of 'unrepresentative' votes, so we need to keep an eye out for such a thing, but since there's no way I can think of to make it a fair election without barring perfectly valid 'new' or younger citizens a vote, I'm happy enough if we stick with what we have and if something obviously dubious is going on, bring it to everyone's attention (especially the EMs) and handle it then.
     
  13. Irvyn

    Irvyn Guest

    Speaking for myself, I'm quite happy with the way things turned out :) I don't remotely resent Alaster getting so many votes, he's a popular chap and rightly so ;) Irvyn will be happy to work with him .... possibly happier if Alaster will promise not to steal his underpants ...

    That's a good reason to vote for Alaster. Being a Bill & Ted fan, I'd sum that up as "Be excellent to each other .... and party on, dudes!" :D