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[Origin] How we are determining Vice and Virtue Guilds

Discussion in 'UO Vice vs Virtue' started by Lore Denin (GL), Oct 6, 2014.

  1. Lore Denin (GL)

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    Here is a link to how we are helping our to Define Vice or Virtue Guilds.

    http://stratics.com/community/bookmarks/465/view-item

    This is what we used to do in the old Order/Chaos days. I am still hoping they add a way to pledge one side or the other but until then we'll do our best to maintain the list as accurately as possible [on Origin]. I posted here to give other guilds who might be struggling with the same ethical issues of attacking others who might be good simply because every non guild/Alliance person on the field is hued orange.

    -Lore's Player
     
    Viquire and Podolak like this.
  2. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    For RP purposes, there are robes, warhorses and hair dyes for Vice and Virtue.

    For non-RP purposes.. what does it matter? If you're not in the same guild or alliance you're going to get attacked.
     
  3. Lore Denin (GL)

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    That is the reason. RP isn't just emoting or wearing a blue robe, its doing what your character would do.

    Currently VvV is Vice vs Vice with no reason for anyone playing a Virtue character to participate.

    Why would a person playing a virtue character show up to a battle and randomly attack and kill people - they wouldn't.

    By not having sides you are eliminating people that would participate for a reason beyond simple pvp. No good person/character would raise their sword/spell etc to another without just cause. Earning silver and points is not a "good" reason to kill someone.

    I know people think role-playing means talking, emoting and pretending to do things while sitting safely in tram (and yes there are people that do this) but what it really means is to play a role. Right now there is no role for Virtue in VvV and so I am doing my best to create a context for participation until such a time an in-game reason exists...

    -Lore's Player
     
  4. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I'm a huge advocate for RP. So please don't misunderstand my previous response.

    But in UO it has always been the players creative expertise to produce a RP experience. UO has only ever offered the story and the tools.

    For example, player run towns. UO doesn't stick up a town sign saying "Welcome to Who-Ville". It is up to the players to create a place that appears to everyone as more than just a mass of customized homes.

    EM events. The EM sets up the story, drops a few spawns and participants start killing stuff. Its up to the players to participate in a manner proper for the event. People can goof off or start killing or stealing from each other (if in Fel) but the hope is that everybody will cooperate in a RP manner.

    Player run events. Same thing.

    Anyways, my point is that it is up to us to create a rp experience. We've been given the tools and the environment and in this case even the scenario.
     
    #4 SpyderBite, Oct 14, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
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  5. Lore Denin (GL)

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    I know it sounds like we disagree but I think for the most part we are thinking along the same lines. I completely agree that the game should provide the story and tools and the players flush out those stories (rp and otherwise) through game experieinces.

    Where it seems we disagree is on this
    I think VvV lacks all three of those things.... ie "No story" and "No tools to participate for either Vice or Virtue" and no consequences for participating for one side or the other (or your own which I think would be a great third option).

    Give us a basic story of a new evil corrupting Fel (Vice, anti virtue etc) and Virtuous people coming to the aid of those people and the rise of indepedent groups tired of the endless good/evil, Vice/Virtue conflicts dominating the Felucccan landscape and finally standing up and declaring "What they WANT!"... Give us the ability to join one, the other or create our own side... Let the conflict have in game consequences that revolve around town control (prices, guards, etc) rather then items or bonus's and the players will have the tools to run with it.

    Right now my guild is just grinding out these "sieges" for points and silver that we hope to use in a more significant way down the road such as taking more complete control of a town like in factions etc. We are carefully screening "Virtue" and "Vice" guilds. Leaving town when"Virtue" guilds come in so they can win uncontested. Then battling "Vice guilds" when they show up.... because it doesn't matter to us "WHO" wins the town but "WHY". If towns are being protected and coming under Virtuous control "WHY" would we stop that or prevent that from happening. Even more to the point "WHY" would to guilds who are good stop the progress of the other. People will say form alliances (and we have) but how hard is it to get GM's on at the same time and then add people who might be in another alliance to their alliance and then get in touch with old allies and get them in new alliance etc etc etc... It should be built into the system.

    VvV lacks a way to do this efficiently or effectively and there is no way I will be able to keep up with all the players and guilds who come and go. Its a the best stop gap measure we can provide but its a short term solution. Its impossible for us to keep tabs on every guild and person participating and if they just let guilds declare their side, we could spend more time playing rather then constantly trying to determine who is good and evil in the conflict.

    For example, when we were Order, we would give Chaos Warriors the option to renounce Blackthorn and his tenets or face the sword, etc. Right now a typical interaction in VvV looks like this....

    (me) "Hail Traveler, Beware! This town is under siege and a war rages between the forces of Virtue and Vice. What side do you pledge your allegiance?"

    (player) "I want to get a banner for my house and it costs 10k silver"

    (me) "As long as you have no evil intentions for this town, or towards other innocents and are not attempting to corrupt the town for Vice, then we have no conflict"

    (them) "Yeah I just want to get a banner for my keep. It will look nice on the south wall. "

    (me) "So you are not evil and do not fight for the forces of Vice?"

    (them) "How can I tell? Do I have to get murder counts for that? Can I get other things if I am Vice?"

    (me) "I am unsure... but attempting to murder someone would put us at odds and could brand both you and your guild as agents of Vice"

    (them) "I don't understand all this rp stuff just want to get a banner, the Justice one since the picture is the best one."

    (ME) "It appears your motivations are not evil and we have no reason to prevent you from claiming this town nor any desire to delay you from decorating your Keep. We will leave town so you can earn the silver more quickly and create a mind link so that you may call upon us should evil attack. Go about your business in peace and May Virtue Light your path"

    -Lore's Player
     
  6. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Lore, if you can get that much talk out of a players character in a truly active VvV engagement, then my hat, or helm, are truly off to you, sir.
     
    Lore Denin (GL) likes this.