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Humble Pie

Discussion in 'UHall' started by lankdogg03, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. lankdogg03

    lankdogg03 Journeyman
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    So with the new patch Ricardo is now giving away humble pie on the Castle Brit bridge. I read that they were first introduced in a prior event, but what are they good for now?
     
  2. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    If you read the uoguide page, In the Shadow of Virtue is actually the current event cycle. I know you cant throw it to other players. Lake Superior already had the Magincia event, maybe they know more about this pie.


    Edit: *Totally unrelated* We've first seen this name ''In the Shadow of Virtue'' nearly a year ago. We've first seen Bane Chosen in June 2010.

    ''In the Shadow of Virtue'', ''Bane Chosen''

    How did we miss Virtuebane being behind all this until devs finally revealed it in December?
     
  3. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Nothing major or minor said about Ricardo, our event focused on clearing out Magincia of the Virtuebane clones. I think our EMs made a passing joke about Ricardo.

    We have at least one more Virtuebane event after this weekend, so at least on Lake Superior, it's not over. I don't know if other shards are ending their Virtuebane arcs this weekend, but we're not - one of the EMs told us directly there would be at least one more event.

    I think this weekend was just to prep Magincia.
     
  4. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I've seen Ricardo on all of the four shards I've checked (Lake Superior, Drachenfels, Europa, Yamato), at the same spot. Lake Superior event is posted with a title "The Final Push", so I thought it would be the final event, but I didnt think about the multiple Virtuebanes. Did you get the crystal back from him?
     
  5. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Some people were able to loot crystal shards off of Virtuebane corpses and then gave them to the EM who opened up a gate to Ilshenar, where we fought some more. Bunch of people kept crowding the EM with their dragons and I had to keep looking at my journal to see what was said. There was also a book that some people were able to loot - I have no idea what it said, but it was about Virtuebane. The 4-5 times I was able to open a Virtuebane corpse, it seemed like there was a vacuum cleaner running over it...

    There was mention of Virtuebane going to Fel when we were done in Ilshenar, so I'm guessing that's where we are headed next in the story.

    Is Lake Superior the only shard that fought Virtuebane's clones in Magincia?
     
  6. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Ricardo is on every shard I checked earlier today, which was all the North American and both European Shards, only people I felt sorry for were the one's on Baja, when I check Ricardo was there but no Pies... I sent a pigeon off about it so I hope it got corrected.
     
  7. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    Some of the event dates are posted on uoguide main page, Lake Superior is the only one that had the event today. I couldnt find any info for Atlantic, Siege and Catskills (and nearly all Asian shards except Yamato and Sakura) so I guess it is the only shard that fought Virtuebane.

    Note: Cant find Ricardo on some of the Asian shards.
     
  8. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I wonder if they're the same shards Nexus posted from the clilocs:

     
  9. Bazer

    Bazer Slightly Crazed
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    we on Baja got them, ty vm!
     
  10. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Thanks for posting this, I didn't know about it :) (free pies, woot!)

    Oh, but they don't seem to work :/. Can't throw.
     
  11. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I'm pretty sure GL's EMs let the secret slip, though not directly...

    For you purists:
    On GL, we've had weekly events centered around the Bane Chosen since last May-ish. During our last weekly event, it was revealed that Virtuebane was driven from our world once before by imps who taunted and threw garbage at him. They humiliated him, making him 'humble.'

    Here is the book from that evening which explains it in a bit more detail:

    'Title: Daemon War Chronicles
    Author: ReoVex

    I write now of a fateful meeting of two great demon lords: Arcadion - the Night Blade and Virtuebane - the Bringer of Fire. They tore apart a mountain in a great battle that lasted several days. Many lesser demons were killed in the aid of their liege lords with Arcadionâ"s forces taking the greater losses. Victory seemed certain for Virtuebane.

    Arcadion knew of the Bane of Virtue's weakness. As the Paragon of Pride, Virtuebane was countered by the Virtue of Humility. He could not directly kill anyone with a truly humble heart. Of course for the demon Arcadion, this weakness seemed rather useless for as with most demon lords, Arcadion was arrogant and without meekness.

    Fortune favored Arcadion for the demon also had a sense of humor, a wicked sarcasm and wit. He realized the even humility had a twist in the form of humiliation. While details are hazy, Arcadion rallied his forces and in addition to a great bloodletting, he had minor imps taunt and heckle the other demon lord. High above his head, these imps showed they had not fear for Virtuebane, pelting him with all manner of garbage and debris. Distracted and embarrassed, Virtuebane found himself defeated. He retreated to Death's Awakening and remained there until he left Sosaria.'


    Death's Awakening was a dungeon in the Lands of Lord British in Ultima I.

    In essence, these pies are most likely intended to humiliate Virtuebane and thus weaken him. The pies could also function as weapons as well. GL had an event where Messana's Cream Pies actually did damage to certain mobs when they were hit.
     
  12. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Ah okay, thanks Martyna =) wondered why they didn't seem...normal.
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    There are times when looting scripts come very, VERY handy........

    Too bad that the enhanced client only has a gold looting macro and nothing for actual items.

    It seems that scripters always win in this game.

    How sad.
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Alright, you talk about this info as being commonly available.

    Yet, I entered on search on Stratics domain "humble pie" and "Ricardo" and the only one post that combines the 2 words is yours. With only Humble pie (without Ricardo), some other stuff comes up but nothing current, mostly older info.

    That is, is my understanding, there is no prior mention on Stratics' Forums about Ricardo giving away humble pies.

    So, how would the information then be commonly available when infact your Post is the first mentioning of it on Stratics, at least ?

    Where did you get this information from ?

    Are there other information sources about the game that are better than Stratics and more up to date or which get new informations about Ultima Online in a more timely manner?

    Thanks.
     
  15. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    I posted on the Europa shard forum about the humble pie and how it's gotten as soon as I heard about it, And that was yesterday, So there is certainly information out there.

    I didn't however know it was a global thing hence why I only posted it on Europa's forum.
     
  16. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Really?

    :wall:

    Perhaps some people acquire their information from within the game itself. Shocking, I know, but not everyone constantly expects Stratics to provide all their answers.

    Try exploring the game world more, its scary what you could learn on your own or from friends.
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, the OP does mention "readying" about it.......

    Perhaps it was not on Stratics but on some other Forum, and since I thought that Stratics was usually most current about UO novel news, I found it worthwhile asking what other place had the information available already as a future reference.
     
  18. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    I assume you ignored my post where I said the information was on Stratics? I searched humble pie and it's the fourth result.
     
  19. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    On origin he's off on the side with no pie cart, and on siege there isn't one (that I could see) and there was another shard that didn't have pies, but I can't remember off the top of my head which one it was.
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Origin already had their final event i think

    Does pie really do anything though? Didn't seem to work for me on Europa.
     
  21. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    you need to have shard crystal in pack to become pie target
     
  22. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    What is the purpose of the crystal shards anyways since our Ems didnt take them. Are they event items or are they going to disappear (or turn into dust as noted on them) after a while?
     
  23. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I largely suspect it's just RP, that we beat the virtuebane back by use of humility...and thanks for the note on what makes the pie work :)...i think the crystals will be deleted in the future. I got one on one shard prior to the big event because the spawn was there all day, but I couldn't make the final event so I guess I'll let everyone know what happens to my piece.
     
  24. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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  25. Bazer

    Bazer Slightly Crazed
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    would love to get one of thoese books or gloves
     
  26. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Only problem with it being Ricardo on LS is that he died a few weeks ago. :\
     
  27. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    Both of him?
     
  28. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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  29. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    It was stated several times, especially during the event, that Ricardo used the shard to duplicate himself many times over (though not in the nasty manner Virtuebane did by transforming his minions into copies of himself).
     
  30. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, I never heard that. Thanks. :)
     
  31. Neutron Bomb

    Neutron Bomb Journeyman
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    Mesanna mentioned to me tonight on Chessy not to buy the shards because they will disappear.

    The gauntlets btw are awesome.
     
  32. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Ugh.
    Am I to understand that we're to defeat this mighty demon Virtue Bane by throwing Humble Pies at him, or his army?
     
  33. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Hard to understand this making its way into the game. Luna Nobles win again? This seems like a mess to me.
     
  34. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Trebr:
    Him, specifically, but you got to fight and destroy his army, to get down to the one, true, Virtuebane left that the pies work on.

    Of course, having Ricardo go all Michael Keaton on us (and I don't mean, "I'm Batman!" Keaton, though that would have been even more fun to watch) allowed some more play to the NPC.
     
  35. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I really feel out of place in this game right now. Maybe it's time. I just hate to give up on what coulda been, I guess.
     
  36. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    It's about humility...pies may seem silly, but that's the idea the devs were trying to get across, humility. Shrugs.

    I wonder why they called the gauntlets gauntlets though...they're actually arms...
     
  37. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    I agree with Trebr myself; I am not ashamed to admit I believe people should always aspire too, if not actually achieve Great Art in all things. And the reason the original Ultima games proved so emotive even after all of these times is that they attempted to address far deeper issues than the typical "Go Kill Big Bad" cliches of most games; People have mentioned Blackthorn, and how Ultima V ended for him indicates the quality of plot that I have in mind, and I sadly miss.

    There is a reason why "Dr Strangelove" ends with Vera Lynn and not the originally filmed Pie Fight ending; It is because pie fights by their very nature are extremely difficult even for a genius like Kubrik to pull off without descending into slapstick. In a game where many people just want to have fun, it may work as a one shot evening of entertainment, and I hope many of you had such an evening. And I see a number of unique rares dropped, which will also please many of the collectors and sellers. And as a quick bullet to the head of a plot I'm rather glad is now over, I somewhat welcome it myself too. But I won't hide my disappointment that the dev team don't seem to understand why, in Ultima IV, the Avatar wasn't walking into each city, sitting down and inviting people to throw pies at him. That's not really what the Virtue is about.

    There was some private debate between myself and another recently about whether the criticism of the plot had personally upset some of the dev team... I just want to add then that it's not intended as such. And I do understand that you are under constraints of time and productivity and profit. I just think that you also shouldn't be afraid to listen to constructive criticism; Great Art isn't, despite what we all seem to believe, something that pops out fully formed. It requires practice, practice, practice and then a lot of polishing on top.

    And to show that I practice what I preach; Just a quick link to a review of a Mission Arc I wrote for City of Heroes. The criticism given there helped me tweak for game play styles and perspectives I'd not even been aware of, and the arc as I left it when I left the game was much the better for it. And the same goes for admitting your limitations; I can't program to save my life... but I can recognise talent where it lies, so the Scar coding for this map was done by someone else. And the end result was so much greater than our individual inputs (I did the visual layout and wave balancing).

    All that matters to me is the quality of the end result, and that is all I wanted to say about this arc, that I felt it needed more work. Not that anyone shouldn't have enjoyed it, or should take to heart the criticism as personal.
     
  38. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    Throwing pies at Virtuebane sounds strange until you read Martyna's post:

    after that, it makes sense since you cant actually kill a demon like Virtuebane, but you can defeat him by using his weakest side. The fiction for the event is written (beautifully if I might add) by EM Drosselmeyer, one of the two EMs of Chesapeake. This suggests that the Devs gave the EMs full control of this global event and probably only provided them some notes on some of the important points.

    I really liked the war system implemented for the war between Ophidians and Bane Chosen and also liked the idea of loyalty ratings. Its a shame that they pretty much abandon that system and loyalty ratings became useless pretty quick. I guess after we heavily criticised the last fiction written by Mark, he decided to take a break from designing the events or writing fiction (he hasnt even visited the forums for one and a half months now) so the Devs probably decided to give this job to the EMs.

    EMs cant implement a special system for such an event (that's the Dev's job), so they used their own abilities to create an atmosphere. It wasnt "Go Kill Big Bad", but more like "Go get Killed several times by Big Bad". It took more than two hours in Europa and it felt like a long battle with Magincia beig the battleground, and it was fun, so I guess EMs pretty much saved the day.
     
  39. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    I think it may be a language issue, or possibly even just a US/British difference in appliance, but Humility and Humiliation whilst they have the same linguistic roots are not the same concept.

    Humility is the personal attribute of downplaying one's own importance; but it is only a moral course of action when one has reason to be proud, but you choose not to draw attention to it. The serf may be expected to be humble in Feudal societies, but he is not seen as virtuous for being so. The reason why it is a Virtue in Ultima Prime though is that when practised willingly, it proves the altruistic nature of the Avatar's other actions, and his transcendence beyond pride.

    Humiliation however is something done to another person to bring them low. And whilst it can lead to the discovery of Humility on the part of the other, the fact that it is an act that deliberately seeks to create a victim in someone else means that whilst it can be a funny, or even Just act, it's not in itself ever seen as a Virtuous one.

    To be honest though, it's hard to see how anyone could have written themselves out of the meta-fictional corner this particular arc had gotten trapped into, and given us a truly Virtuous way out of it. Absolutely none of the actions we've taken so far have been "Humble", and Virtuebane clearly wasn't going to be learning the Virtue himself, having become a minion-stomping Big Bad.

    The final event was thus no doubt a fun way to sidestep the narrative tangle, and I salute who ever decided upon it as a way to just end it completely; but it wasn't an artful way out... and it certainly doesn't leave anything inspirational for the future of Sosaria. Years from now people will wander about Magincia and ask "What happened under The Shadow Of Virtue?" and we'll only be able to say "We threw pies at a daemon who then ran off".
     
  40. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    We not threw pies on Drachenfels. I have tried without success.
     
  41. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    They could have had Virtuebane do damage equal to some multiple of the armor you are wearing, and taken damage based on x minus the damage you do according to your gear and bonuses. So in other words, if you went into combat with him wearing nothing and wielding fists or a low end weapon (newbie weapon being the lowest) you take no damage from him (adjust that to make it some damage, somehow) and do the best damage. Or something on that order.

    Then add damage for wearing a monks robe, and even more for having eaten a humble pie at a shrine.

    But the truth is, it's really hard to code in the virtues. They aren't a numbers game. I can picture the worthy robe wearer above bragging it up pretty big while he wails on the demon.
     
  42. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Many of you are overthinking this.

    It was a play on the term humble pie, added to the fact that someone who was the living expression of Humility would be impossible to Humiliate. As the embodiment of the anti-virtue of Pride, it would be impossible, for Virtuebane to be humble enough to NOT be humiliated in such a manner. In being humiliated, the Pride that is his strength would be voided, making him defeatable.
     
  43. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Exactly!
     
  44. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Virtuebane's pride comes before his fall--that's understandable. However, Adol is spot on with his earlier response, in which he defines the virtue of humility in comparison to the act of humiliation.

    While Virtuebane seeks an escape due to his pride, humiliation fails to provide us with a virtuous means by which to dispel the evil creature. What if there were no pies at all, and we simply defeated his physical replicas? Wouldn't the loss of his demon-army be enough to trigger his pride? Did we really need the pies?
     
  45. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    tap-dancing-Jesus that was difficult :p
     
  46. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Precisely; we don't actually "win" in any way with this path, as we don't gain high enough ground. Just as in real life people suffer humiliation with flung pies, but they are never outright "beaten" because there is a residual sympathy for being the victim of others. And rather than learning any lesson, this allows them to continue as before once people stop laughing.

    This is fine if Virtue Bane plans to be a long term bad guy, as Blackthorn was (the work put into his artwork indicates he may be) in which case yes, it's sort of acceptable that he just runs off. But as the ending to what is possibly the last ever Epic Arc, it's desperately disappointing... as is what happens to Magincia now, I'm sorry to say, because both started out with so much promise, which is now unfulfilled.
     
  47. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I think I've been convinced that the act of humiliation is ok. It works, and it's their call on a tough job, so I guess it's something I should just accept. But what bothers me is the whole "slapstick" thing, as Adol mentioned. I would have preferred something different. Something deeper.
     
  48. canary

    canary Guest

    Well at the very least once again your GL EM, Malachi, attempted to actually logically toss in historical references regarding the humiliation.

    Some shards EMs just said: 'These pies are filled with the power of HUMILITY!' and left it at that.

    Its yet another case of the UO team creating a somewhat awkward scenario and then forcing the EMs to do their best to adapt it.
     
  49. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Which leaves things a little disjointed, as far as game wide lore goes.
     
  50. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    True, but it would have been tempting to scale the damage you could do, and consequently any looting rights, as much reduced based on the insurance cost you were paying for the equipment you wore and used... ;)