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I have hard time figuring where posts belong to...Can someone please help ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Nov 9, 2009.

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  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I guess I need help in understanding where posts belong to because what I consider a Ultima Online Design and Development argument often is instead considered a UO Spiels N Rants discussion.

    My difficulty, is understanding how to criticize a certain Design (Development issue) without it being seen as a rant.

    I mean, ifl criticism ends up being seen a rant, then how on earth can UHall be ever hosting design and development issues that might criticize aspects of the game ??

    Can someone please explain to me what exactly are considered to be "Development issues" which belong to UHall ?? Only positive ones, perhaps ?

    Thanks a lot for the help.

    From UO Stratics Forums descriptions [http://vboards.stratics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3]

    UHall
    This is the place for general discussion about Ultima Online gameplay, development issues, and related Ultima Online issues. Please keep posts on topic, and use the U. Hall OT for off-topic posts!


    UO Spiels N Rants
    Gripes, Rants and Venting. No matter where you stand, prepare to meet people to challenge your opinion. *Note that EAMythic does not participate in this forum.
     
  2. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    today might not be best day for this as ea lowered its work force,

    uo might be in very much, zombie mode, wait gms answer calls? nope in zombie !
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Uhu ??

    I do not understand how this may be related to my question.......
     
  4. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    hmmm

    meaning posts about whah
    my 12 year old newbie account cant do blank

    might not be listened too for awhile, even though new players might be involved in inequities of game play!


    or players that play over 2 hours a day are, "ganking" the system and making uo a unfair system built upon game play over newbieness status

    etc etc !!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    Jeez what do you really want, it is a subjective call by the moderators and forum admins. It really depends on the demeanor of a post. These are private forums they make up the rules and can determine on a post by post basis. Clearly with the announced reduction in workforce, today may not be the best day for you to post your petty issues.
     
  6. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    It is true that many of your posts are forwarded to Spiels and Rants. Sadly, pops, I think that this has less to do with the content of your posts and more to do with your posting reputation. :/
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    It also depends on how your posts are sided. If your post is one-sided where all you do criticize and/or complain and you argue with others who disagree with your side, I think that qualifies as a rant.
     
  8. siyeng0

    siyeng0 Guest

    UHall is for valid developmental issues that affect everybody's enjoyment of the game.

    Your posts are pointless, address the most ridiculously insignificant things, are typically incomprehensible, more often than not could be cleared up if you'd just get off your lazy arse and do two minutes of research by yourself, and waste everybody's time.

    There. That's your distinction between a UHall post and an S&R post.
     
  9. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Man Popps, if with nearly 8,000 posts you haven't figured it out yet, I don't see how anyone here is going to help you.

    I'm not generally a negative person, but to tell you the truth, I've had to put your posts on ignore in the past because I just can't read them.

    Good luck to you.
     
  10. Vertigo

    Vertigo Guest

    In before lock / move to R&S
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Really ?

    I had not realized that since I try to always follow the posting rules and that is why I have a hard time figuring out what might be wrong in a post.

    I mean, UOStratics says that UHall is fit to discuss Development issues which, goes by itself, revolve around Design and Design choices.

    I discuss design choices, offer alternatives which is, to my understanding, constructive criticism and not criticism by itself which "could" be seen as ranting, and yet I fail to fulfill UHall requirements for posting ?

    That's why I feel lost, as a Stratics' poster. I read the guidelines for posting, believe that I am following those guidelines and posting Development and design arguments and yet I am not.

    Hence, I guess, I need guidance to better word my posts so that my posts about Development and design of this game are in line with UHall guidelines for posting.

    Is this too much to ask as a Stratics' poster ?
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I see......

    Well, I surely respect that, for example (and this is a mere example), others may see issues as Rinse and Repeat activities in a game a "ridiculously insignificant" argument in a Forum that hosts Development issues but personally, since we play for entertainment and repeating the same activity over and over, at least for me, qualifies as "boring", discussing alternate ways of getting to the same higher items which might not require rinse and repeat could be a valid argument about Development and Design for the game. And, mind you, of an important aspect of the game, its ability to entertain players, not introduce them to boredom.....

    Are you perhaps telling me that a player that (for example) sees a certain Design as boring and thinks that there CAN be better ways to get the player to earn higher up items, certainly less boring and repeatitive, this would not be a valid argument for being discussed on UHall?

    If so, then I fail to understand which are valid arguments for discussion on UHall and would like to be explained that to improve my posting.
     
  13. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Well after reading this I think you got your answer. From people trying to help, those who want to get ya going and others who are just letting you know basically why. From the replies you have now I think you can figure it out. Although I am mostly sure you will respond to those who you think will keep it going. Allow you to keep posting more and more open end comments. Which will allow you to keep repeating yourself, or sometimes contradict that you said 12 posts before.
     
  14. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Posts can be a lot like farts...

    Sometimes they make you laugh,
    Sometimes they can make a person cry,
    Sometimes they cause exodus...

    all depends on the fart.
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Could you please be so kind to give me a few examples of WHAT arguments of discussions that are critics of its current Development and Design would be proper for UHall and not more fit for the Rants Forum ?

    What makes a criticizing post fit for UHall rather than for Rants ?

    The way it is worded ? The fact that criticism is coupled with suggestions to a design considered better for the poster ?

    What exactly makes a post fit for UHall, when it considers arguing in a critical way, development and design issues ?

    This is the answer I am looking for to improve my posting and so far, noone that I can understand, as helped me understand that, clearly. Can someone, perhaps providing sound examples, help me better understand ?

    Thanks.
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The answer I am looking for, is in what cases Posts can help make an online computer game get better.....

    That is, providing constructive criticism to modify its design so that the game can be more appealing and less boring to players.

    Yet, I find it quite difficult to be able to express my point of view in a fair and constructive way in regards to aspects of the game which I disagree with and would imagine might be better, if designed differently.......

    I wonder if such guidance is too much to ask, as a poster.
     
  17. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Well...I suppose some issues may arise from the desire of someone to use these forums as a platform to debate subjects that hold little or even no value to the OP. Being creative by adding the words "UO" to the debate do not make a thread UHall worthy, especially when manipulation seems to be the goal.
     
  18. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    I am not a Uhall mod so I do not speak for them. I'm just a low ranking Chesapeake man *smiles* This is just in my opinion. I know I didn't give you five examples but, I hope you can understand the response.

    It was ok but (this element) could have been better,
    here's my suggestion for how it should have been done.

    What makes it a rant?
    Umm.... hmm anything that is for a personal change you think should be implemented. Something that is just not working out for you or you want changed to benefit yourself. Once the discussion on the topic seems to be going no where, the original poster is just posting to keep it going, goes off the original topic, or is completely ignored by the EA/Mythic Team.

    You seem to be intelligent by the way I have seen you set up your posts. I think you should be able to figure out all your questions on your own, with the responses you have from everyone thus far.
     
  19. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    The decision, as someone said, is subjective.
    Ask yourself 'Is this a needed design change, or is it a gripe?'
    Development time is costly and precious, changes that most others feel to be too minor to be a good use of this resource are likely to be classified as a 'gripe'.
    Demanded changes for problems that can be easily overcome by more care by the player will be classified as gripes.
    Demanded changes where the more logical solution would be for the player to take responsibility for his own actions will be classed as a 'gripe'

    Definition of Spiel: A lengthy or extravagant speech or argument.
    Many of your posts fit this description.
    Many of your 'discussions' more closely resemble 'debates'. You will argue every point, even going so far as to disagree with yourself. This is not a debating society.
     
  20. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Is having multiple threads locked a good indication of what is and what is not allowed?
     
  21. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thank you for your reply.

    I will try to discuss it with the purpose of better understanding your points so as to help me in future postings..



    I see and yet, I often hear arguments that the assett of Ultima Online is its variety and wide offer of much different content to a variety of players.

    Meaning, that there is a variety of players out there playing the game for different reasons. That is, what might be important for some players may not be for others and viceversa.

    If that holds true, how is it possible to define which aspects are worthy of being discussed of being changed and which not ?

    For example, and I merely am using key aspects of the game for better understanding of my argument, but others could be used, some play the game for its PvP and could never ever consider it without it. Other players enjoy it for PvM and could not care less for PvP.

    Now, should a design/development discussion end up on UHall about either PvP or PvM, such a discussion could be deemed as vital for some, but useless for others.

    If I enjoy PvP and PvP only all changes to PvM are minor to me (and viceversa) and, therefore, I could see them as a waste of UHall space to be discussed about.
    Yet, for those enjoying PvM those discussions might be vital.

    So, I tend to think that no argument may be worthless discussing when it attempts at making the game better for even a reduced number of players.

    This, because UO is played by different players for different reasons, I think.



    I think I can understand this if you are referring to players complaining about lost items/skills for mistakes done in the game and, overall, agree with you here.

    But the key, IMHO, is in those words "easily" and "logical".
    I mean, for example, sometimes players loose items because of scams because the game design does not help them figuring out that they are being scammed.

    Now, should a player loose anything because the current design of the game can induce them into being scammed would they be entitled to come to UHall and voice their concern about the current design and ask for it to be changed ?

    Sure, the player "could" have avoided being scammed, with more attention perhaps, but my point is that the current design permitted the scam and rather than blaming the victim, I'd rather prefer to hear their complaint and have the current design fixed and the game bettered. But that's just me, perhaps.



    Well, I can possibly understand that and yet, I cannot help considering that, personally, I think that debating helps the forming of new ideas and new ideas are the foundation of bettering a society. And Ultima Online, I thought, was a virtual society worthy of being bettered for the better sake of the players enjoying it.

    If debates and arguments help forming new concepts for design and make changes to the game which can improve it, then why not ?
     
  22. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    yes, sometimes. But when a debate is going round and around in circles and getting nowhere, then it's lost its point?

    Suppose you have a problem, you bring it here asking for a design change. Someone points out that there is a simple and easy solution to your problem that you can implement yourself, possibly by adjusting your playstyle slightly. The logical next step would be to thank them for their input and possibly try their solution.

    The illogical next step is to dismiss their suggestion untried and continue to push for a design change that possibly isn't actually needed.
     
  23. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Apropos, this thread should be moved to SnR now.
     
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    no, I think, since the question has been answered we can just all stop posting it and let it quietly fall off the bottom?

    Or I suppose I could lock it.
     
  25. Number 2 always feels better than number 1. :gee:
     
  26. Shamus Turlough

    Shamus Turlough Lore Master
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    This is a thinly veiled rant in my opinion, but I agree with the boss.


    Lockededed.
     
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