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I here sampire is the best pvm build in the game true?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by Tye, May 31, 2015.

  1. Tye

    Tye Sage

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    Is there any build that can solo monsters better then sampire build? Somethin like this....Fencing-tactics-resist-chivalry-bushido-parry - necro? any better template to solo
     
  2. hirikawa

    hirikawa Journeyman

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    It all depends on what you fight. There isn't one good template for everything. For example Sampire is useless vs encounters where you cannot leech life in vamp form. That's why best template in game is to swich skils via soulstones depending on what we do.
     
  3. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I think a thrower could give a sampire a good run for its money.
     
  4. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    My chiv archer out guns any sampire I play with.... But sometimes it is just nice to get up close and personal. Some days I love tanking and stamping it up.....other days I want to be Robin Hood :). Lately been having a lot of fun with my old school paladin. I have many different templates that can solo a lot of different baddies....all depends on my mood
     
  5. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    For an in-depth discussion on this topic, please read http://stratics.com/community/threads/sadoks-sampire-template.335198/ .

    There's a lot of good info in there, though by the 200th post we're rapidly closing in on the theoretical logical end for every message board thread. where the discussion no longer has anything to do with the original topic, but has devolved entirely into a meta discussion about the validity of the posters thoughts on the topic, which will eventually lead to someone being "successfully" compared to Hitler. I think we're about 8-10 posts away before someone compares splitting hairs over subtle template differences to phrenology.

    Also: please read and understand all of the info in the sticky thread from @CorwinXX and his guide to new and returning players. In particular pay attention to the discussions on "normal" and "hybrid" templates.

    Once you have completed these tasks, I suspect that you will either have all the answers to your totally un-answerable question, or be able to ask a more informed question.
     
  6. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Keeper

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    Yes.
     
  7. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    This is the reason why I tend to force the curious person to ask a better question before I weigh in. "Better" is relative.
    I am going to make two statements that I think are both true at their most basic levels:

    Any template with resist is not at potent against non-casters as it could be.
    Any template without resist is not as survivable against the best casters as it could be.

    Which template is "best"?

    There are templates that can kill them faster... but will have a higher variance. Like any template that relies on 100% HLL for healing instead of VE. Also I think Healing skill is more predictable than leech based healing, at least against things that A) hit for >25% of your HP and B) have 130 weapon skill.

    There are templates that will make the character very hard to kill... but will take much longer to kill the biggest things. Any template that relies on feint falls here.

    There are templates that "require" 800+ skill points: Corwin's disco-swordsman (I think he runs 720, then has 1 set of armor with something like 90 points worth of music/disco, another set with various fighting skills, and probably a 3rd set of jewelry with 50 EP for when he quaffs his str/agile pots). Works great against things you can get 1 vs 1, then disco - not so useful in a crowd, 100% not useful against the things that are immune to disco.

    Which is "best"?
     
    hirikawa likes this.
  8. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    I am typically an AI sampire with my blade staffs come boss time. Last night I forgot to grab the appropriate blade staff slayer...so I stuck with my double axe against the primal lich.....tuan, and corwin have been telling me for months that in some cases double swing is better then AI ....

    I hit every swing for 150 and 162.....I have never come close to landing an AI for 312. I was shocked that there was almost no noticeable variance in my hits either. I was at max damage certainly with undead slayer and CT and EoO....but I was shocked to see 300+ on every hit.....no perfection bonus because of a few evs in the area when he popped. ...not so concerned about the damage increase in this case...but the luck bonus would have been nice :)
     
  9. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    This is such a loaded question.....

    It really comes down to what you are fighting. Are you just killing one creature at a time? Are you at a champ spawn? Knowing that AI is not always the best option (Double Strike).

    There are obscure ways to do a lot of damage (my mage with like 90 SDI really can bomb, and toss a slayer on there....)

    With my sampire, I'll have 30+ things on me at a time. I really don't think any other template can survive that, but someone is welcome to try. I'll stand at the altar of a Cold Blood Spawn in Ish. Paragon Dragons make it interesting, but with Feint and Evasion, I usually survive it.

    It really comes down to play style. If you like it relatively safe (and boring) fighting one thing at a time, you'll find things that can kill faster than a sampire, but you'll be hard pressed to find something that survives better.
     
  10. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Just a bit more.... there are so many things that effect how much damage you do... that relegating it to a specific template... and really, all you need to be a sampire is Weapon Skill, Necromancy, and Tactics... the rest of the skills are interchangeable. You could go with Anatomy, Lumberjacking, Music, and Discord. There are really a lot of combinations.

    It's like that conversation on damage mitigation, there is more to mitigation than just a template or special move... it's just part of the picture.
     
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  11. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Replace your leafblade with 100% HLL longsword and you will leach more life without VE.
     
  12. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    We've had this discussion before. I prefer my leafblade with feint. I have a swords sampire with 100% HLL longswords, so I have a point of reference. I have played both and prefer the Leafblade (in fact, I still play all 3 weapon type sampires).

    And there is no way you are surviving being surrounded by dragons/paragon dragons with a 100% HLL longsword (or any non-WW weapon). My kama does nicely.

    There is a huge difference in sitting in a relatively safe place solo'ing a pretty easy creature and running head-on into a champ spawn.
     
  13. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Do you have Feint on your Kama? You have wrote that when you surrounded by paragon dragons you survive due to Feint and Evasion.

    With 100% HLL Double Axe you leach the same life as with EV and Kama.

    Probably swordsman's suit is not good enough? When I did champs I never felt like I need Feint. It is pretty useless when you are crowded and all champions are weak (well I never tried Fey champ because of karma loss).
     
  14. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I can do it both ways, your point is?

    Again, I PREFER fencing over swords.

    Not sure if that was intended as a slight or not, but as it so happens, I made a post about her armor: http://stratics.com/community/threads/sampire-in-plate-3.260321/
    It's ok. Of course, the LMC is now higher since that was a plate suit I made before the changes came down.

    I am happy for you you never felt like you needed feint. I do, I have, and I like it. I've been playing sampires a long time, been playing all three weapon skill sampires a long time. I prefer fencing. I like feint. I am happy for you that you don't. Any more conversation about feint, I am not going to reply to, because it's been beat to death and it's evident minds are not going to change.
     
  15. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Does it mean you can do it either way? It conflicts with your previous statement that no-one can survive in this situation with any non-WW weapon.

    You are welcome. But this doesn't mean that fencing is better. And yes, if you use fencing you need necro (VE or CurW) because you can't have high HLL and high HML on a leafblade.
    You see there is a difference between "I PREFER fencing" and "I really don't think any other template can survive that".

    It's ok. But to try something like bushido paladin you need 35 SSI without weapon (or 20 SSI and more Stamina than you have). Minimum looks like 15 SSI from DF, 5 SSI from city bonus and 190+ Stamina... but I prefer to have 35 SSI and 190 Stamina so I still have 1.25s when I am dropped under 180 stamina by a hit.
     
  16. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    And the last 4 or 5 posts is why we shouldn't use superlatives on the message boards. There is no "best"... and people get all hot and bothered just discussing it.
     
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  17. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    I think this is the bestest forum on Stratics....let the war of words begin :)
     
  18. Ryzk

    Ryzk Journeyman

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    I am a big fan of the bushido paladin over the sampire. Each build have its own niche though. I run at least 3-4 different versions of the following: sampire/buishdo paladin/straight paladin/ninja bushido warrior. Not counting that I have the 4 human fighting skills for each as well.
     
  19. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Fine- take your Bushido Paladin w/ Longsword, stand at the altar in a Cold Blood Spawn when it reaches level 4, get a slew of dragons on you, including paragons and survive. You want to keep bashing... so back it up buttercup. And I know you won't have any issue making a video of it.
     
  20. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    @NuSair I am confused... on one post you say:
    Then in your very next post you say:
    The last time I played a character that used fencing, was the 90s, so I've got no frame of reference.

    It does seem to me though that your two posts are directly contradicting one another.

    So... in this scenario: Last level of cold blood (dragons and Ophid K-Es) which weapon and tactics are you suggesting is the preferable one: either leafblade with feint as you suggest in one post, or kama with WW?
     
  21. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    As much as i did like to play my fencing sampire back then, at champ spawns, everything except some champs is killed way faster by using doublestrikes. And with reforged/ imbued slayer doublestrike weapon 3s speed and up you dont even need ve, except one does insist of aggroing the whole wave at once. Mobs at champ spawns are not really that hard with the weapons and gear that is around these days.

    Especially since feint got changed to only affect single target , its simply better to aim for higher damage output at spawns.

    And i know what i talk about, i still run 2 fencers with leafblade, but one is mystic and the other ninja, both with healing. And both can spawn just fine given the right weapons, albeit they are not made for that.
     
  22. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    If you are not able to do this with a leafblade why I must to be able to do this with a longsword?
     
  23. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, I didn't contradict myself, but, evidently, I need to spell it out for the Harvard Law Review....let's dissect my sentences-----
    With my sampire, I'll have 30+ things on me at a time. I really don't think any other template can survive that, but someone is welcome to try.
    ----explanation- I do not believe that another template (that is a non-sampire) can survive getting that number of creatures on them and be killing them, not just running around---- including the 3rd and 4th levels of a spawn.

    I'll stand at the altar of a Cold Blood Spawn in Ish. Paragon Dragons make it interesting, but with Feint and Evasion, I usually survive it.
    ---explanation- When the Clod Blood Spawn levels up, I am usually at the altar. And with my kama, I usually kill off everything. There are times when there are multiple paragon dragons, in that situation, I'll swap weapons between my kama and leafblade, so that I can pop feint. Sometimes I'll just use my kama, other times I'll just use my leafblade because of feint. It depends on the situation, what is going on around me, what I feel I need at the time. It's not a hard and fast rule- it comes from playing the template for years.

    And yes, it is my belief that someone cannot do that with a Longsword, the difference being the leafblade has feint.

    Is that detailed enough for you?

    EDIT::: sorry, thought I included this, but didn't directly
    And there is no way you are surviving being surrounded by dragons/paragon dragons with a 100% HLL longsword (or any non-WW weapon). My kama does nicely.
    In these situations, like I mentioned before, I will swap between my kama and leafblade in order to pop feint, especially when faced with multiple paragon dragons.
     
  24. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    What you describe is the one thing i did always like about the kama. Since it needs so little stamina, it actually works quite well in hairy situations when hitpoints and stam drop rapidly fast because one did miss a single hit .Gargish talwar is the other extreme, with 100 hll ond no ve it leeches about the same as your kama with ve, but if you drop stam fast it can get you killed while with the kama you keep swinging.
    But such situations can be avoided most of the time. Personally, i never stand at altar and wait for mobs to come to me, doesnt help either that i like looking at the loot with some lvl4 waves.
     
  25. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I had a gargoyle sampire (eventually turned him into a wraith thrower), but the lack of a swampy really hurts. But, I LOVE the gargoyle weapons.

    The speed of the Kama is one of the things I like best, because of the way I play- the low base damage really doesn't mean much, because I generate so much damage from the Whirlwind bonus.

    Avoid... yeah, those are the situations I look for. People can have their solo'ing (admittedly, I do solo- but there is more to UO than that), I enjoy running into a large pack of creatures, or gathering them up, and making it a challenge.

    I would love to look at the loot, but, I am too focused on completing the spawn. Though, I do take the time to look through paragon bodies. Especially the Succubus ones.