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I humbly ask for one rebalance help in UO world.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by UOKaiser, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Just simply anything thats harder to achieve or to get make it more useful and important than things that easier to get. Whats the point of having something difficult to get when there is no use for it. Thats all just rebalance the order of things. Harder to get more useful, easier to get less useful that's it.
     
  2. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    context????

    Would help if you gave some specifics I am betting.
     
  3. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Too many things to list. We can start with the obvious ones. Iron is more useful than valorite, dull hammers are more useful than valorite hammers, clothing bless deeds are more useful than runic kits,spine kits are more useful than barbed kits, granite is less useful than iron, frostwood is less useful than plain boards, barbed is less useful than regular leather, drop monster items less useful than craft items, craft items basic is more useful than higher crafted items, rarerer items is less useful than common items.etc...

    What am focusing on is the usefulness of everything and not value even if they have 1 use for them if it's enough to overcome the usefulness of lower easier to obtain items. For this reason they should just make iron harder to mine than valorite and turn everything else upside down.

    So what I would like to ask for is a rebalancing on harder to obtain items are made more useful than easier to obtain items from crafting to hunting to finding to looting. In every respect. Difficulty to obtain scaled by usefulness.
     
  4. Felonious Monk

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    I understand your request and usual you'll meet resistance.
    My best offering to explain the different playstyles is relating to an old friend named Tom. We were working our fisher chrs and he saw me dropping the fished up shoes on the ground. He asked me if I was really going leave those perfectly good shoes on the ground (there was a time when you could use scissors on shoes and get leather). I was blown away thinking Man that's frugal.
    I wouldn't waste my time with that. If I need leather I'll farm it another time.
    Point being crap loot is still a resource whether anyone views it as a nuisance or not. I know people who dry loot every critter they can from buffbats to Balrons.....in the name of resources
     
  5. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    usefulness x rarity = price in gold

    some things are very useful but too expensive to have because they are rare, other items are not rare but expensive because everyone wants them. In other words, the usefulness of an item is somewhat determined by the price, which in turn is related to the rarity. I think there is hardly a need for rebalancing and once you rebalance things, you would write another post asking for a rebalancing the newly found balance.
     
  6. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    usefulness x rarity = price in gold

    some things are very useful but too expensive to have because they are rare, other items are not rare but expensive because everyone wants them. In other words, the usefulness of an item is somewhat determined by the price, which in turn is related to the rarity. I think there is hardly a need for rebalancing and once you rebalance things, you would write another post asking for a rebalancing of the newly found balance.
     
  7. Unravelling is your friend!!
    Woot!!!
     
  8. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    But theres no balance of this. This used to be the case and kept everything in balance since the begginign of UO but not anymore rarety does not = usefullness anymore. Not talking about price as thats player driven and it changes daily. Im talking at the usefulness level the need for the rarer items.

    For example if i made a dragon barding deed of valorite armor that should be more useful than i made a shadow iron deed of dragon barding. If i craft a platemail armor out of valorite to imbue that should be more useful than me crafting a plain leather tunic or using plain iron. If I loot a random 5 mod random ring out of medusa all logic should say that it would be more useful than me looting a 1 mod ring. If I obtain granite which is less available than ore logic dictates i should have better use for it than ingots. If I obtain a crimson cinture from peerless hunting it should be more useful than a faction crimson cinture.

    There has being a massive reverse scale in all of UO from harder to obtain rarer items being less useful than easier to obtain items of the same category. This is dark issue that effects every playstyle and reason to play in the game in one way or the other.
     
  9. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I dont really understand where your going with this. I can see what you mean with low level runics and kits vrs high, but those have sort of just come closer together, a dull hammer youd throw away before, and a val hammer was 3 or more times the cost they are now. Valorite hammers are still the most usefull, and still the hardest to get. Only way you can get 6 mods on a weapon seems pretty useful to me.

    Leather and ingots same thing. Different ingots give you a better chance of creating elemental damage weapons, and when crafting why would you use regular leather when using barbed or horned gives more resists?

    I agree that the value of high crafting skill has been diminished because of imbuing, that the only need for high crafting is create the execptional item, and have a high success rate for base peices (like torquoise ring and wood armor)

    I used to hate this, but it really is more like crafting now. It takes alot of planning, choice of material, choice of kit or hammer, incorporating enhanceing, etc etc.

    Basically i see it as just there are tons more options. Only thing i can really see a change in is the faction arties, it was once very hard to move up in the ranks, and now you can be rank ten with minimal effort.
     
  10. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Not focusing on price remmeber that. Just general concept of everything. Without considering any price whatsoever would you rather me give you a full suit of imbued armor just for your specification that doesn't take too long and that much work to do using easy to obtain material or would you rather me give you a valorite hammer with 15 charges that takes a lot of work and effort to get because of the rarety of bods,amount of material and type of material which is all rare. Remmeber there is no such thing as gold in this concept as I don't want to bring price into this just usefulness compered to rarety. This same concept can be applied to almost most things in UO at this moment.

    Sure there is specific things that higher materials can be used for to get specific rarerer things but are they more useful than getting easier things for other. Are they worth the effort to obtain compared to there time and usefulness.
     
  11. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Agree! Woot!

    I sell the boots to cobblers using sell agent. Easier than dragging them out of my pack.

    I loot almost everything from mobs - gold, potions, bottlesn scrolls, regs, gems. Magic items weighing 2 stone or less will be looted. Magical items that will unravel to essences or fragments will be looted too.



    To the OP, I still don't understand your point. Has it occured to you that the reason some of the stuff is viewed as more useful is because they are easier to get in the first place?

    I would train tinkering/smithing using val ingots if it's easier to get than iron. I would use barbed kits to make base armor pieces for later imbuing if it's easier to get.

    I would make leather armour using barbed leather if it's easier to get.

    I would use val hammers to make all my stuff if it's easier to get.



    For items that used to be less useful like spined kits, but more common, they have already made it more useful. First by removing the intensity cap, then with imbuing.

    As to what you said on valorite barding being more useful, it is already more useful, they changed it recently so that barding takes into account the material bonuses (benefits your swampy more directly than yourself though, but still, a tougher swampy that don't die means it saves you a trip to the vet).

    If they make valorite ingot easier to get than iron, then we'll have another player posting about why iron is rare and useless.

    And things like granite is just rarer because it's less useful in general. I would have liked a system where I could dig exclusively for granite without getting ore, and where I can dig for just gems too. The former may be possible, but the gems one is probably going to overly unbalance things depending how it is implemented.

    Finally, using iron and plain leather to make base items for imbuing should not be confused with usefulness. That has to do with balancing imbuing and how imbuing works

    I would use barbed leather and val ingots in a heartbeat to make them if these are easier to get than plain leather and iron ingots.
     
  12. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    I agree with UOKaiser. He's absolutely right.

    There are a number of things which need to be addressed...

    Two of which are the runic crafting systems and resources, both stand out like a sore thumb. Runic Tailoring kits are worthless which is why we have threads about players duping them and selling them for next to nothing. Easier to obtain resources are of more value than harder to come by resources. Frostwood is worthless...it has not real purpose yet it's harder than hell to get.

    The runic system needs an overhaul. I advocate a menu similar to what we have with imbueing. One where we can pick and choose the mods/properties we want and the intensities will be dependent upon which hammer/runic you are using. Maybe only Verite and Valorites and perhaps Agapite should be able to break the 500 Barrier.

    There are many examples but currently no one can argue that crafting has lost much of it's value and for all intent and purposes it's ass backwards.

    It needs looking into and fixxing ie. rebalancing.
     
  13. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    On one level you are right, on another you are wrong. Yes, a dull copper runic hammer is generally more useful than a valorite hammer, but there is always that one in a million chance with a runic hammer that you will get that one item that will blow away anything you could possibly craft with imbuing, and you will be able to use pof on it.

    As for barbed leather, sure in crafting you will use more regular leather than barbed, but you can't enhance with regular leather. If you want to make a really high end piece of armour, you need barbed leather, or valorite. So while some of your examples are good, several of them aren't as good.

    I don't think there is a real problem here, the only changes I might suggest is increasing the intensity of random magic items found on really high end mobs, such as bosses. Another change that I might suggest isn't making the requirements to get relic frags from items any lower but perhaps increasing the number of them when you are over the minimum requirements, so that when you unravel an artifact or item with a high intensity rating that is well over the minimum rating, you get ten or more relic frags, rather than one or two.
     
  14. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    This is where i dont really get your point, because (if you dont consider gold) id prefer the val hammer, because its harder to get (much easier if you do consider the ease of getting gold vrs the couple of hours making a specified suit)

    Thats kinda what my point was, that even tho i agree that most would prefer a decent imbued suit, many would prefer a chance for the perfect 6 mod weapon because its vastly superior to easier to make imbued weapons.

    Now if your talking about a full wooden 6 mod suit, imbued then enhanced, and with all hit chance, then id prefer that, which coincides with your point i think.
     
  15. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I think I know what UOKaiser wants. He wants things to be worth doing from the higher and harder things we get.

    Ore as in:
    iron
    dull
    shadow etc.. the line have a worth. We forget the days when if you made a item frm iron it only was good for basic things but if it was made of Valorite... well there you have a item that could knock down something substantial.

    I see where he is going with his post. Its only logical to want that hard to get sewing kit to make the top stuff, or that runic val hammer to make the top of the line armor worth the time to make it.

    I simply dont know if they can do that these days kiddo.... we are flooded with players who want instant satisfaction that the Dev have a hell of a time keeping up with.
    Basicly it would take a lot of programming to undo the last few years of mess the kiddies have driven the Dev to do.
     
  16. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    So far all have gotten my point correctly in many ways. Too fill in the gaps. As in the Val hammer example yes there is a chance that it can yield something extradonary. But in order for that hard to achieve item to do that you will need not just 1 but many of them to accomplish it poping out something that would be more useful than something guaranteed.

    When it comes to hard to achieve items they should always do better than easy to achieve items. Anything easy to achieve can only go so far. But anything harder to achieve should always overlap and surpass the previous more common item of it's category like in most any game there is of this type.

    Using a common rpg system in other games you start out with wood sword then you get your first real weapon is the iron sword onward to bronze sword, silver sword, gold sword, then comes names like damascas swords ,ultima weapon , some specialise name weapons etc..
    Either way whatever it is the next one in line is always more powerful and harder to receive than the previous one. This is how UO was for most of it's life. The system in uo is so screwed up right now that the iron sword is stronger than the damascas sword even though damascas is much harder to receive and has that 1 in 10k chance to deliver a kill blow.

    But am afraid Lady Storm is right. The damage has gone so far it would take so much development or at least 1 of the developers concentrating on this exclusively to get things in order again. My only suggestions is to find more use on harder to achieve and aquire items. And when i mean by use I mean real use that surely surpass anything easily achievable and not just for decoration.
     
  17. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Yep lady storm is right. Im sure we could go on and on about how to fix this, but itll never happen. I just wish a patch had made barbed kits have the possibility of 6 mods, and val hammers have maybe 30 uses.