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I need help calculating pet attack/defense values (developing a patcalc)

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Prudentis, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    Hello fellow tamers.
    Being a programmer, I thought I could use my skills to develop something like Kitiara's pet calculator for myself.
    Kitiara's tool is very nice and I use it all the time but it lacks some functionality, I'd like to have in my program. Also, my program is an offline Java application, so it isn't really comparable.
    What I need now, is help of the tamer comunity, to be able to come up with the most exact numbers, to be able to determine at the first look, which pet is junk and which has potential.

    Since every one tamer will have other preferences, I want to integrate this fact into the application through the use of preferences settings to shift the weight of some attributes.
    For example:
    Overall pet strength consists of defense and offense. Some tamers like offensive pets and some prefer defensive pets. This should be visible in the end result and weighted correctly according to the user settings (i.e. 60/40)
    Of course the actual absolute values will also be shown, for comparison.

    On the other hand, there some undisputable facts about pets, which can be shown directly or through calculation. Those I need to find, and integrate into the petcalculator for it to become the desired tool.

    What I have up to now:
    A pet'S tanking ability is greatly influenced by it's hp value and the resists. This is easy to calculate with the formula HP/(1-(resist/100)) which will show the exact amount of punishment a pet can take before dying to the elemental damage type.
    But this is pretty much all I have come up with until now, as shown on the picture below. What I need now, are other values, that will may significantly change the numbers. I have to determine also, which ones are 100% accurately calculable and which are subject to user preference.
    Please help me find the values, so I can integrate them and make my tool perfect :)
    What I need:
    - certain pets have stats higher than the trainable maximum of 125. How do they influence offense/defense?
    - certain pets can have skills, that exceed the normal GM values. How do those skills influence def/off? Wrestling for example, if it exceeds GM, would have to be counted towards defense but how much and what other skills should be counted and how much do they influence off/def?
    - some pets use magic to add to the damege they do, how can I make this count?
    - some pets heal themselves either through magic (or other means?). Again, how to weight this correctly?
    [image]http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/Prudentis/petwin.jpg[/image]

    Edit: How can I make the image visible? It doesnt show, although it should :)
    [crazy]
    [blush]

    hmmm bbcodes don't work ...
     
  2. The info you're asking for is hella complicated, heh. I think if you wanted to do a great job, you'd be building a seperate pet calculator for each kind of pet, and each calculator wouldn't give one rating as a result, it would give several ratings.

    Here's some things I'll throw out there -

    PVP vs PVM use pets can in some cases have very different optimal characteristics, but in others, no difference. For example, a desireable PVP cu sidhe is identical to a top notch PVM tank. A PVP-intended Lesser Hiryu, however, should have close to max str and as high as possible wrestling skill, which is not as critical for PVM where resists and hit points to allow the bird to tank well mean a lot.

    Trained Cu Sidhes always have 125 dex, but Rune Beetles are highly variable (stratics says 125 - 170, I can't personally attest to the real ranges on Rune Beetles, I haven't tamed enough of them). Rune beetles also bless themselves, which means that in battle, to the best I understand, certain Rune Beetles should be pushing themselves into a faster swing speed. Swing speed does not increase in a true linear way, it makes jumps at the borders of specific ranges. Those ranges are 90-119, 120-149, 150-179. The amount of dex increase gained from a bless spell should depend on the magery and eval, so to really get the picture, the rune beetle's base dex, magery, and eval would need to be taken together and the final dex while self-blessed determined. A rune beetle with mid level dex and high magery/eval could be functioning at the same swing speed as a high-dex low-magery/eval specimin.

    Rune beetles have at least 2 applications. Sometimes they are expected to tank a bit, and in others, they are expected to be assistant animals with the poison and armor corrupt. A rune beetle with crap resists but 126.0 poisoning (the max tamed poisoning possible) is the right choice for some jobs, but you might choose a different beetle for tanking.

    Greater Hiryus have a specific application in that they are used to deal with the peerless in Bedlam - - that peerless causes massive fire damage. High HP, max fire resist Hiryus (90 I believe) with decent Phys resist are, to my understanding, the choice for that job. But max fire resist isn't so important for other applications.

    Greater Dragons - - amazing beasts with hugely variable resists and skills, and therefore hugely variable abilities. I have a Greater Dragon that mimics a Bedlam-tanking Hiryu, but with more HP and hit/defense chance than any Hiryu can ever have (the wrestling determines the melee hit/defense chance). You can take a wonderful, trained PVP dragon, say 128 wrestling, mid-level tactics, big hit points, mid level magery, and big magic resist, but if you find an identical one with low magic resist, it is unacceptable for group PVP or use near fields. 122 wrestling and 122 magic resist is more preferable for this kind of PVP than 128 wrestle and 101 magic resist. Issue being, when your dragon gets stuck in a row or 2 of para fields or the mages in a group try throwing a paralyze on your dragon, if the magic resist isn't there to help him, your dragon may as well be in the stable for all the good it is.

    So yeah - - I'll stop there for now - - I think you'd maybe end up doing it based on each specific pet, and using your understanding of what the pets are and can do.
     
  3. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The info you're asking for is hella complicated, heh. I think if you wanted to do a great job, you'd be building a seperate pet calculator for each kind of pet, and each calculator wouldn't give one rating as a result, it would give several ratings.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Not necessarily a calculator per pet if the calculator can be customized to the user preference.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Here's some things I'll throw out there -

    PVP vs PVM use pets can in some cases have very different optimal characteristics, but in others, no difference. For example, a desireable PVP cu sidhe is identical to a top notch PVM tank. A PVP-intended Lesser Hiryu, however, should have close to max str and as high as possible wrestling skill, which is not as critical for PVM where resists and hit points to allow the bird to tank well mean a lot.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Here I could implemetn a separate PvP and PvM rating.
    But I would need help, as what factors count most in PvP.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Trained Cu Sidhes always have 125 dex, but Rune Beetles are highly variable (stratics says 125 - 170, I can't personally attest to the real ranges on Rune Beetles, I haven't tamed enough of them). Rune beetles also bless themselves, which means that in battle, to the best I understand, certain Rune Beetles should be pushing themselves into a faster swing speed. Swing speed does not increase in a true linear way, it makes jumps at the borders of specific ranges. Those ranges are 90-119, 120-149, 150-179. The amount of dex increase gained from a bless spell should depend on the magery and eval, so to really get the picture, the rune beetle's base dex, magery, and eval would need to be taken together and the final dex while self-blessed determined. A rune beetle with mid level dex and high magery/eval could be functioning at the same swing speed as a high-dex low-magery/eval specimin.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    That is indeed difficult. If we are unable to get the actual numbers, I will not be able to implement things like these correctly.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Rune beetles have at least 2 applications. Sometimes they are expected to tank a bit, and in others, they are expected to be assistant animals with the poison and armor corrupt. A rune beetle with crap resists but 126.0 poisoning (the max tamed poisoning possible) is the right choice for some jobs, but you might choose a different beetle for tanking.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    This is where I would implement a suggestion function, which points out, specific benefits or failures.
    In your example, it would be great, if the pet summary page, displayed some overall info with additional information like: Beware, your pet will not tank very well but has superb offensive if only used in that way.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Greater Hiryus have a specific application in that they are used to deal with the peerless in Bedlam - - that peerless causes massive fire damage. High HP, max fire resist Hiryus (90 I believe) with decent Phys resist are, to my understanding, the choice for that job. But max fire resist isn't so important for other applications.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Again, a Hiryu with a fire resist of 90 would get a special info in the summary page, that it would be a great tank against foes doing fire damage.

    <blockquote><hr>


    Greater Dragons - - amazing beasts with hugely variable resists and skills, and therefore hugely variable abilities. I have a Greater Dragon that mimics a Bedlam-tanking Hiryu, but with more HP and hit/defense chance than any Hiryu can ever have (the wrestling determines the melee hit/defense chance). You can take a wonderful, trained PVP dragon, say 128 wrestling, mid-level tactics, big hit points, mid level magery, and big magic resist, but if you find an identical one with low magic resist, it is unacceptable for group PVP or use near fields. 122 wrestling and 122 magic resist is more preferable for this kind of PVP than 128 wrestle and 101 magic resist. Issue being, when your dragon gets stuck in a row or 2 of para fields or the mages in a group try throwing a paralyze on your dragon, if the magic resist isn't there to help him, your dragon may as well be in the stable for all the good it is.

    So yeah - - I'll stop there for now - - I think you'd maybe end up doing it based on each specific pet, and using your understanding of what the pets are and can do.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Well, I won't be implement anything I don't have an idea about, like group PvP with pets.
    This is where I must rely on user input.
    But maybe this would be too much. Since if you really exactly know, what you are looking for in a pet, you won't be needing a calculator [​IMG]
    Still, I guess there are other tamers, who can benefit from such a tool.