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I tested the PVP changes and....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kiss Of Death, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Babbling Loonie
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    I dunno who is the chief of the pvp focus group, but they ain't pvpers for sure.

    The 40 SDI thing is ABSURD, if you make a EXPLO FS you redline your opponent, the maximum cap should be 25 SDI from items (+ 10 sdi from 100 inscribe).

    The apple timer should be reduced to 30 sec and not 45 .

    I am gonna check in these days about the chivarly changes and will let you know.
     
  2. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    the chiv changes "shouldnt" matter too much...

    CW will hurt the players who dont have 1b gold to spend on runic hammers to make special weapons.
    (this is the biggest deal and they should make special metal do more for damage spreads)

    EOO, hardly use it.. so i dunno.
    with 100 base DI, + a slayer your at 300%. im not sure but with demon slayer being a super slayer and having no minor slayer EOO might hurt when your fighting demons but just a tad.. 100+100+50 = 250.. so it would be like 100+100+40 at 60-65 chiv.

    DF, never really used it either.. the hit on DCI sucks.
     
  3. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    You play a max DI SSI archer...of course this change is not going to be acceptable to you. The problem with mage templates is that they were never brought up to speed with the damage outputs of dexxers. This is the main reason (as far as I can tell) as to why the changes were thought up and put into place.

    If the devs wanted to they could up casting instead, but I have a good feeling you would be adamantly against this too in any and all fashions.
     
  4. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    :danceb:
     
  5. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Clearly it needs to be increased to 50% so it kills them in 2 hits like some dexxers. :)
     
  6. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    The 40 SDI thing is ABSURD, if you make a EXPLO FS you redline your opponent, the maximum cap should be 25 SDI from items (+ 10 sdi from 100 inscribe).

    No one with any reasonable suit is getting redlined by explode flamestrike while cursed. 80-85 damage for exp FS sure but that's FAR FROM redlined against a REAL pvper with 135 or more HP.

    Do you also fail to take into account that 2 AIs from double hit spell bows are the same amount of damage? Approx. 80-85 or with good dice rolls, even more!

    Shooting 2 AIs is also MUCH FASTER than standing there casting explode flamestrike. Not to mention you have to curse the target first.

    It's obvious to me that this opinion along with some of the others listed are coming from a 1 dimensional (all dexxer) pvper.
     
  7. Jaqenhghar

    Jaqenhghar Guest

    The guy who posted this topic is one of the best field mage ever existed on UO... you are completely wrong kid...

    He 's a 360 ° pvper . Btw everybody with a bit pvp knowledge will say that the 40 % SDI dmg increase + 10 from inscribe is ABSURD.

    You need to reduce is to 25 % + 10 from inscribe , 35 % which will be more then enough.

    Simple facts.
     
  8. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Babbling Loonie
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    It's FACTS they need 2 lower the sdi at 25 % (+10 from inscribe)

    If they put 50 sdi total into the pvp world they ruin 1vs1 and pvp in general.

    I am talking and bother myself to post because I love Uo still after 14 years... I have been pking

    New suggested temp:

    100 inscribe
    100 poisoning
    120 mag
    120 eval
    120 resist
    120 med
    40 points for free I would put 100 anatomy, so you need a good scrapper, aegis of grace or the mask, a good ep ring with skills... 100 ana+120 eval +20 / 2 = 120 wrestling passive

    Good template
     
  9. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    And fairly obvious your opinion comes from that of a 1 dimensional (all mage) pvper. If you're afraid of DOUBLE AI just slap on a 3-4m Imbued mage wep. Problem significantly thwarted. But of course Dexxers are pretty OP... they can evade spells too occasionally, all for the cheap price of 120 Skill points. Though this only works for one tile dexxers, not archers, so they still have to catch up to you, stop at you and actually hit you when they swing.
     
  10. Clx-

    Clx- Guest

    lolz
     
  11. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Actually Spoony plays both types of chars. He is aware that dexxers currently have the advantage, as do all dexxers and the developers.

    Those double AIs you speak of do more damage than an explosion flamestrike, and require less personal skill to get the damage off. It takes 1.5 secs to use an AI...which with double hit spell does over 40 dmg and cannot be interrupted. On the flip side, it takes more time to cast a FS and almost always will be interrupted (even with stacked dci).
     
  12. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    I play a dexxer and I was unaware of the advantage over mages. Maybe I am the only one, but seems to me Myst Mages trump absolutely everything in the game and have for at LEAST a year. Archers are the only ones that can compete as far as dexxers go. Any other warrior skill is nearly laughable unless it involves a bok bok.

    No ones arguing about personal skill. Obviously it takes more to use a mage effectively. But where you cannot interrupt a AI, you can completely negate it with your 120 parry, ahem I mean 120 mage with wep. And I'll admit you can do up to 50 dmg in one AI, if BOTH hit spells hit (and your far enuff away where velocity does something). Though the chances of both hit spells going off two times in a row is debatable. Though if your talking about double hit spells that means the dexxer has no chance to evade a mage spell.
     
  13. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    I play all mages and agree. It's too much. Let's try 35 or so for pures, but drop ninja and music outta there.

    Apples to 25-30s.
     
  14. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I play mages mostly but i also have several dexers. I play mages because there is more going on, more "tools" so to speak, and it peaks my interest more.

    I hop on a dexer when i just want to run around in slaughter mode with minimal group effort.

    but hey, thats just me. A para-ai-ai, mixes of deathstrike, disarm, bleed, mortal, nerve strike, orc brute, etc etc etc. theres plenty of tools there to slaughter any mage when you get your "dice roll"

    obviously if you get slapped by RNG and miss a few times in a row you might be in trouble (bandies and heal pots go a long way...) but when it goes in your favor and you can just pull even 3 hits out of 4, you are probably gunna kill someone.
     
  15. Charin

    Charin Journeyman

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    Playing both Dexxer and Mage... Dexxers are the gods of pvp. This is a needed change.. a MAGE has to STAND in one spot to cast.. where dexxers can run all over hell and back. Even maxxed on FC and FCR dexxers will hit us 2 times per main spell cast. For now when I fo pvp I take my Dexxer... with these changes I may take my mage again.
     
  16. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    I haven't died to a dexxer 1v1 since I came back months ago. They're hard to kill as well though I suppose.
     
  17. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    I'm having a hard time sympathizing when a mage can hit you nearly anywhere on the screen. A dexxer actually has to catch up to you. Running all over hell and back sure.... granted.... though why complain? If they are doing that they aren't hitting you.

    Dexxers were the Gods of pvp like 4 years ago.
     
  18. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Sorry, but a mage is limited to casting range the same way an archer is limited with a bow.

    I don't understand why you bring up mages weps even parry mind you. Parry requires 80 dex to be effective and mage weps can be disarmed to make the mage 100% vulnerable.
     
  19. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Looks like some crazy stuff...

    To all the mages in this thread...2 AI in a row maybe, but you just heal/chug/stone

    3 in a row happens once a week, if the dexxie lucky but @ 70 dci, well...really

    If they raise SDI to 40 the I want my 120 resist to work! No more dropping my 85 fire to 60!

    You hear that DEVS...look at curse, omfg for what 5 mana and 1 second it takes away 40 elemental resists, can you say over powered? Mind you that is with 120 resist, wtf did I resist??

    I accept that the game changes, it always has...but please look backward just a bit...how many times was Myst nerfed 3, dont make the same mistake and fix it after the fact, test it before you screw the point and clickers!
     
  20. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    LOL, "simple facts", the simple facts are that if you actually get on test center more than once than you'd realize that most of the top pvpers are dexers with lethal poison. And also, you guys act as if 40 SDI is easy to fit into a mage suit or something without making sacrifices. Furthermore, we also have to consider dexers can make any type of hybrid template that they want and still have the same damage output if not more than a mage casting explode flamestrike (which any good pvper can easily disrupt). :gee:

    Oh yeah, and the scribe thing makes it even more funny. How many dexers add a whole skill to add an extra 10 damage inc to their output? ROFL
     
  21. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    test...set skill to suck!
     
  22. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    Yeah I had a feeling poisoning would become a bit too powerful, but I haven't extensively tested that.

    I know from PVPing on real shards every day though, 45s is too long for apples, and 50% cap with scribe is going to be way too high.

    Couple pure mystics casting hailstorm together is going to kill everyone way too fast. There's too many grinder fights (set this way by the dev team) for a change like this to go through.

    Mystic/focus/parry/resist/wrestle/med.. 3 of these guys any grinder everyone coming in will instantly die. Just doesn't work.
     
  23. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I have a Yumi archer that does double shots for 78 against all 70s...

    You can argue these changes/nerfs from every angle.

    Ultimately, even with these changes and a pure scribe mage can have the 50 SDI, I'll still be rolling to grinder fights on my necro/myst mages.

    I really like what they are proposing to do. This should really diversify the field a bit more.

    Can't wait to through some chiv on my yumi archer and see how enemy of one effects that double shot ;)
     
  24. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Firstly, the 50% cap only works for mages (as seen from a well known site that states A GM Scribe gains a
    +10% Spell Damage Increase to any Magery spells cast.)

    Secondly, the mystic idea is considerable, although there is a long list of counter-arguments I could make for grind points, considering most of the time it's an insta death if you go into a well-planned grinder regardless of these changes. Beyond that, it's quite simple to fix something like that if it becomes too powerful and that would be to lower the spells base damage a tad or make it a single target spell and let nether be the main area spell of mystics.

    Oh yeah, and considering Mysticism is limited to it's capabilities, and this is just to give some possible alternatives, maybe take hailstorm, lower the base damage and then add a paralyze effect after the damage. This would be matched against the targets resisting spells of course. This makes sense though considering it's a freaking hailstorm which would freeze your arse in place. =/
     
  25. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    Scribe works with mysticism.

    Bombard 7 checks against someone: all 24s except 1 23.
    7 checks again no scribe: most 22s cpl 21s.
     
  26. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    And any other Dexxer except archers (save for throwers) is limited to ONE range (and a split second to stop moving before you swing). See in this whole argument I am trying to include archers and swords/fencing/macing, because they're all diff types of dexxers.

    I bring up parry as a joke... as in parry is 120 extra skill points but a mage doesn't need bother with finding room.... simply slap a mage wep in your hand. Its an added 120 points for free is what I am getting at. Furthermore as pointed out by someone in another thread, a dexxers fencing does not allow them to cast invis/gtr heal/explosion etc etc.

    I hate disarm. My least favorite spec in the game.... its intolerable for a dexxer to use it against another dexxer. I dont have a high opinion of using it against a mage either. Lets see.... Disarm.... chase... catch up and whack because he is unarmed..... chase... whiff, seems he has his wep back..... chase... disarm.......rinse repeat... added **** all while the mage is dumping on your missing ass.


    100% Correct. But do you realize why? If not, its because dexxers on average don't hit hard enough where 10% is going to do anything. Typical kryss hit for 8 dmg, 10% inc you might get it up to 9 dmg. Typical Flamestrike hit for 35, 10% inc will get you close to 40. Mages have more damage output that is increaseable.
     
  27. Clx-

    Clx- Guest

  28. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Babbling Loonie
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    You are clearly a not good pvper, the good players on each shard are mages, simple facts. Dexers are just french fries near a nice steak .

    Sdi is super easy to put... You clearly have lack of pvp knowledge.

    A good scrapper (25 sdi) , a hat , a good ep ring , the legs with sdi for ex etc.... The crystalline etc etc the new talismans.. The cloack etc etc, its possible to have dci glasses with cloack, scrappers, ep ring with 12 sdi.... Easy.... 40 sdi total for unbalaced casting

    Max sdi need to be 25 from items + 10 sdi from inscribe, learn mechanics
     
  29. Saint of Killers

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    I love disarming mage weapon mages. Mages have gotten a free ride with their dci 70, and "free" weapon melee skill without investing additional skill points (except the 20 extra magery) for years. I like the fact that most mages will need to include anatomy or wrestling onto their template to receive the full benefit of 40 sdi (because most will use a spellbook).

    It's going to be pretty stupid though. You'll see "currently" terrible mages sitting in pro form going flamestrike, flamestrike, flamestrike, flamestrike against dexxers that will need to run off screen or die to that studly 50% sdi mage.

    It'll be the new rehashed bad mage nether bolt/magic arrow/nether bolt/magic arrow stupidness.

    IMO 40 (50 w/scribe). is too high. I think 30 (40 w/scribe) is high enough.
     
  30. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I think the 40-50 is fine if we consider things such as what you just suggested and take measures to prevent it from being to ridiculous, such as a suggestion to reduce sdi while in protection. I do not agree with puni in making it 0, but lowering it about half sounds reasonable to me.
     
  31. Saint of Killers

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    I'd be content with "remove protection" scrolls being created! Same casting speed as protection.