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I think its time for the meditation penalty to be removed from metal armors.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mitzlplik_LS, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Absolutely no good reason why this still exists. The notion that somehow one is more powerful in LEATHER compared to being decked out in STEEL is just stupid. It is bassackwards to the way it should be. I`m sick to death of leather armor where everyone wears the same thing. Wheres my Norse Helmet? Wheres my shadow chain armor? Why are these penalties still here?

    Seriously..... I would like to know why metal armors have a meditation penalty anymore. For me this is by far my biggest pet peeve. It makes no sense (in todays UO,maybe 10 years ago it fit) to still have this in game. Can`t be to hard to code.... or remove that part of the code. Would be one of the simplest things the Devs could do that would impact everyone who plays the game in a positive way.

    More variety in armor..... wouldn`t that be great. :thumbsup:
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    We've already been told that there's a re-vamp in the works. Should we wait and see what that entails?
     
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  3. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Oh really?
    THAT would be pure awesomeness. I have not read about that revamp yet. Looooooong overdue IMHO.
     
  4. Eddie123

    Eddie123 Adventurer
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    No they shouldn't.. They should Just add pros and cons to each type of armor.. a decked out dexxer in leather should get his A$$ kicked by a Dexxer in plate. UNLESS.... he is an assassin type or something makeing the leather armor suitable for him to use.
     
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  5. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    A mage should never be able to wear plate. Just the same as a warior should die fast wearing leather.
     
  6. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Disagreed, a mage should be able to wear everything provided he has the strength for it; there are many types of spellcasters that typically wear armor and even wield weapons, such as the battle mage and the typical D&D cleric. In fantasy there's plenty of armor made from materials that would facilitate casting just like the mage armor property now does. The problem is, that in UO, mages have no need for dex so they don't need to make any trade-offs if strength was the only requirement and that at the moment there is no reason to choose metal over leather and wood, although that is going to be fixed.

    [​IMG]

    WANT!
     
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  7. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    My Parry mage does require dex, Just saying.
     
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  8. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Both a mage and a dexer like to have max phys resist. Just the mage is not out there getting gnawed on. Right now there is what can med in and not. The nots get a mod slot sucked up by mage armor. There is a long and set history of arty and crafted for purpose for suits armor out there. Ability to med in armor and the ability to avoid damage. Wearing a Plate Helm vs a Bandanna when in the way of an arrows flight. Only thing good about the bandanna is it can double as a bandage.

    Light armor. There should be some lower resist caps for cloth, leaf and leather armors. Besides caps this group of armor would wear out faster. Durability burn on theese armors should be faster. Wearing one piece of this grade armor caps all you resist at 60 barring any race bump like the elf +5 energy.

    Mid grade armors. Studded, Hide, Bone, Chain, Stone and Ring. Any armor ingot/granite of gold and lower is mid grade. Theese would stay the same as armor is treated now. Needing mage armor mod to med and durability / resist at their current wear state. Put the open face metal helms in this group. Wearing one piece this grade armor resist caps are 70 barring any race bumps like the elf +5 energy.

    Heavy armors are Plate, Chain, Ring, Stone, Wood and Scale. Any armor ingot/granite of agapite, verite and valorite are heavy grade. Theese armors have a slower durability loss. Mage armor mod imbueing/unravel weight is 50. So wearing all this grade armor has 80 resist cap, and and race bump gets doubled. So an elf energy cap in ful heavy armor would be 90. Closed faced metal helms are heavy grade armor. Wearing any piece of this heavy armor has a stamina draining effect during movement. Also spell casting capped at 1FC/3FCR. Full Heavy armor wear has a double check to se if wearer is dismounted or knocked out of the air. Wearing a full set of one scale type armor has 90 cap in it's respected resist type and yes an elf in a 5 part blue dragon scale would cap energy at 100.

    Wearing any of the Mid and Heavy grade of armor has a lower cap on stam and mana regeneration unless it has the mage armor mod.

    All artifacts are treated as light armor if they come with the mage armor mod.

    Yes theese alterations treatement will hamper the lameness of soloing bosses. Bosses should not be soloed. Light armor wear should run from the blade and claw and respect other casters geared the same. PVM to be a challenge will not require more uber HP critters.

    Been asked why the other mats for armor not gotten the wood enhanced effect. Bring on the mythril metals. Cured leather and suede armor. Mind bending method of creation with random effects like heartwood. Little pride in wear with a little bending of above armor rules or instead some bonus.

    And yes I still think there should be some "human Only" armor and weapons. Just to avoid the cookie cutter templates by use of artifacts by what race you are.
     
    #8 Warpig Inc, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
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  9. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I'd like to be able to have my mage crafters be able to wear cloth clothing that I can imbue some enhancements into. I could deal with lower resist totals due to the fabric.
     
  10. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    I just think that so many more things would be useful if they just lifted off restrictions that make no sense. Imagine how crowded the new dungeons would be if there was no "Cursed" penalty. Just seems like there has always got to be something to make an otherwise awesome piece into a useless piece of junk that no one wants. Either can`t med or ya can`t insure.The way of UO and it just makes me wonder WHY?

    But I`m glad they are supposed to be lookin at changes for metal armor. Very xciting.
     
  11. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I think the argument is, if the armor revamp doesn't happen, and/or if it proves non-viable when and if it does, removing the med penalty removes what appears to be the primary obstacle to using plate.

    Now some claim that there's other disadvantages to using plate, but whenever I bring this up those people never show up to give further details. So I have to assume it comes down to medability.

    Remember that meddable plate can exist, it's called samurai plate or western plate with mage armor, and it hasn't proven to be wildly unbalancing to my knowledge.

    The argument that plate should always be better than leather as armor may work in real life but remember that in real life we have no magic (no fireball spells to defend against, to cite just one example), no magical means of crafting, and most-importantly no dragons to make leather armor from.

    All in all, if they never get around to doing something more complex, then perhaps removing the non-medability will do the trick?

    -Galen's player
     
  12. Good Grief

    Good Grief Journeyman

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    The day they turned every warrior into a spellcaster was the day everyone stopped wearing metal. Look at all the warrior supplement skills... they all require mana to be of any use.

    That and the JoAT bonus which given humans a free +3 MR made it worse.

    Forcing any warrior/archer/thrower template into metal armor would be a mistake at this point, unless they completely revamp the warrior's current dependancy on mana.
     
  13. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    But why would you be forced into anything if all that happened was they removed the meditation penatly. Nothing would change whatsoever except you`d finally see people wearing chain tunics again or closed helmets,good god,how long has it been since anyone has seen anyone wearing a closed helmet? Why would it have to be a big deal to make metal armor EQUAL with leather? Just remove the "non-medable" part of metal armor that makes it useless to everyone.

    I don`t see why they or anyone has to over think this.
     
  14. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I think he means to refer to the potential armor revamp.

    He worries that it'll go the opposite extreme and force the use of metal armor.

    I worry about that too.

    But we'll see.

    -Galen's player
     
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  15. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Ahhhhhh,gotcha ;)
     
  16. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    the mod should stay as it is now! You want to wear plate then suffer the consequence however the armor themselfs are what need and are being ajusted! I hope they do something like raise resist caps for them or a dmg reduction like a swampy.. 5% dmg reduction would be a sweet reason to wear platemail the 20 med joat bouns be damned!.
     
  17. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    None of my warriors are human, JoAT is handy, but the 20 mana is better. As such, my Mystic Dexxer wears plate because I wanted it to be different. Got focus for mystic, but reply totally on ML for regen. So does my Sampire, who obviously uses wooden armour.

    Well, my human RP char is a warrior actually (more like was, RP is pretty dead on Europa these days) but he wears full plate too, since that's the uniform.
     
    #17 Vor, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  18. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    What difference is it to you if someone is wearing a chainmail suit with plate arms ,plate gorget and a closed helmet and is able to meditate? They still have same resists,same everything else..... just a different look. Only in UO can something so completely simple be distorted and over thought and made into something it doesn`t have to be. Hopefully the devs will see the simplicity of it all and not waste time and resources on making some god aweful system that is not needed.
     
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  19. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    I'm at the point where my faith in the technical ability of this dev team is at an all-time low, and the idea of them making sweeping changes terrifies me. They're going to add some big crazy system that wrecks everything when really they should just remove the meditation penalty and see what happens and go from there.
     
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  20. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    there is a reason mages do not wear plate(in all mid-evil games), and there is a reason leather is weaker than plate, and technically on a melee character you should take more damage while wearing leather, (physical that is). if it was that easy to change, during AOS when magic resists was made null and void to those of us who spent years getting it to GM, they would not revert to that drastic of a change again, just off a whim. Nooblets do not understand how much the game was changed when magic resist was changed. We fought naked, bandana, whatever most of the time, after how many thousands, tens if not hundreds of thousands invested by OSI/EA in changing the entire makeup of the game. They would have to revamp all non-mage armor, making the mage armor mod useless. Then change imbuing because you would have a useless skill, then change blacksmithing, and tailoring, because you would craft items with mage armor on it. And oh by the way, revamp the whole formula for meditation.

    Put all that aside,
    If you cant get a pimp suit in leather, woodand metal, that are all mage armor by now. You might as well give up. That is just sad, after all of these years...
     
  21. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    they can, the mod is called mage armor, and very easy to obtain.
     
  22. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Mages don't usually wear leather in any of those other games either. How is this relevant to UO?

    What does a change to the Resisting Spells skill made like 10 years ago have to do with the topic of this thread? Go grind this axe somewhere else.

    Yeah they'd have to do a small amount of actual development work. What's your point?

    Nobody is claiming that they can't put a Mage Armor suit together. Are you serious or this is a troll post?
     
  23. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Really? leather weaker than plate, thats new...... I`ve played since 98,so I remember yesteryear very well,I`m just not stuck there. Also I could care less about some fugly sub par suit one could put together under todays restrictions. They should have tossed the anti med junk when they shoved AoS down our throats. Your a shining example of how things get over thought and over analyzed in this game. This is just one example of some things that keep UO where its at. If history offers a clue,I`d say we will get some changes that go waaaaay overboard and in the end it will be just another nonsensical annoyance.
     
  24. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    The problem with removing the med-penalty from non-leather armor, is it would just cause Woodland Armor would be the absolute best, because of the bonus mods you get through enhancing with Wood-types.

    So, regardless if they remove the med-penalty, they would still have to adjust all other special resource types to make them competitive with wood types. (which they should do anyway).
     
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  25. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I hadn't thought of this actually. I associate Wood Armor with Sampires, who don't care about med.

    But as soon as I read this post I got a vision of, say, 20 red elf mages at the Yew Gate, all in Wood Armor, fighting each other.

    -Galen's player
     
  26. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Template is half the reason players solo 300 medusa on their path to riches. The other half is their gear. A coming revamp of armor could end the greed grinder anti social play. Only flaw after would be to tweek to the tamer crutch. Just as cursed gear is a fine balance of the risk vs reward be it PVP or PVE. Also the one who spends the most on enhancing tools should not be a scale tipper. Put that tool on the BOD reward list already.

    As stated woodland armor made med is a great example of how it is a bad ideal. And supports the ingot granite cloth revamp for crafters. Not to mention the money made on the enhancing tool for those that support the pay 2 win factor.

    Get rid of curse? Free bonuses to armor with no down side. Again there are those players that wont be happy till the "God Sash" is made. 100% in every mod, 9 regn in all and an area chain lightning effect. No tears version with no durability, Blessed and not "Dwarf Only".
     
    #26 Warpig Inc, Dec 31, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  27. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    The problem with applying things like D&D or other online games to UO is that all those games are based off Class systems. UO is a skill based system. So- to make an arguement that Clerics in D&D can wear plate or that X wears X in that game, makes no sense.

    For UO, what you need to design is how the type of materials interact with the flow of magic. Does it impede or enhance that flow? How much? Is there a difference in the types of magics? Or is it all from the same source (yeah, you can tell I've not thought of this at all).

    I view cloth as the least impeding, leather and wood about the same and metal armors being be most impeding (ring/chain about the same then plate). That goes beyond just meditation, if something affects magic going in (Meditation) then it should affect the magic going out.
     
    #27 NuSair, Dec 31, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
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  28. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Sad.

    You quite obviously believe that every item looted in every dungeon should be incredible and exactly what YOU want or need. You are supposed to be looting random items. Not acquiring specific and amazing gear. Thats why they call it looting.

    Who are you to say that Med restrictions make no sense btw? Lol.

    Based upon your posts in this thread your only issues are aesthetics. You want the pixels to look different to amuse yourself.

    You want to see more Close Helms? Start wearing them. Its very simple. It can instantly be done in high-level pvm on an average Sampire with almost no downside. And if your issue is with pvp gear simply make a non-med warrior type character and wear your precious metal armor. I can make a fun dogform thrower or archer with no med and low mana and have a ball at the gate all night long.
    This may not work for you though as you seem to want everything handed to you, sorry.

    *shakes head*
     
  29. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    LOL Your bitterness amuses me. You must be a real joy to be around IRL. :loser:

    *shakes head*
     
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  30. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    Why cant they just keep woodland amour non med. It would be justified because of the special material bonus.
     
  31. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    They could do that, but it wouldn't really change anything, especially if the other armor types stay the same as they are except only becoming med-able.
    So basically, anyone with meditation would then be-able to use any armor type except wood, and dexxers without med would need to go woodland armor to get the most out of their suit.

    Regardless there's always going to be something slightly better than everything else. (Currently Studded Armor is +1 base resist higher than every other armor-type in-game)
     
  32. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    I've never even seen a Goldberg post that WASN'T some variation of "IT'S SAD HOW YOU WANT THIS GAME TO BE EASY" said in response to literally any request for any sort of change. He's very close to going on my ignore list.
     
  33. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Another fan memorizing and fondly recalling my past words of wisdom.

    Thanks!
     
  34. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    1) Nothing in my post even hints at bitterness. You should maybe look the word up?

    2) I pointed out quite clearly that the close helm and metal armor in general can still be used on a pvmer or pvper and your reply to that was what? Talk about clueless...

    3) Newsflash bud: when you need to try and interject "IRL" into any forum discussion it means that you actually have nothing legit to say
     
  35. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Oh look.

    Another thread turned into a pissing match over nothing.

    -Galen's player
     
  36. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    *yawn*

    And still your bitter,useless opinions/ASSumptions are meaningless to me. You are the clueless since in no way can you imbue a closed helmet to match a leather hat. For some assinine reason leather can be imbued to be much more powerful than its metal counterpart,so your arguement is invalid with me.

    Your kind and your kinds attitude is exactly whats wrong with UO. Old, bitter and holier than thou. The best part of all this,is I can block asshats like you! :loser:

    Thankyou Stratics for that ability.
     
  37. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    "good god,how long has it been since anyone has seen anyone wearing a closed helmet?"

    Uhh, that is the definition of an invalid argument bud :)

    You want to revamp an armor system so that YOU can hopefully catch a few people wearing a certain type of armor that you seem to be nothing more then nostalgic about. Great way for the devs to spend a big chunk of valuable time lol.
    You dont approve of the armor that people are currently wearing why? You are sick to death of it I think were your words?

    You were most likely not around long ago but the whole mechanics of med and non-med armor were introduced for some fairly valid reasons long ago. And furthermore, it was inline with what was happening in UO at the time.
    Does it make as much sense now as it did then? Of course not. But it still has merit and is in no way broken so whats your point again?

    I am curious though. You seem to want to see metal armor so bad and keep saying the current metal armor sucks but I wonder about that?

    My crafter has made some absolute godly metal armor pieces with a bonus "mage armor' property that I still use on my high level pvpers.
    Ever hear of an entire line of medable platemail such as the Haidate or Suneate or Mempo or Do or Hiro Sode?
    I bang them out with a nice runic hammer and get crazy mods.

    Too funny.
     
  38. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    I've blocked him as well. From now on I'll just mentally insert "IT'S SAD HOW YOU WANT EVERYTHING EASY" into every thread and call it even.
     
    #38 KLOMP, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
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  39. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Instead of blocking people you could instead try to interject a valid counter argument once in awhile.

    My bad though. That would mean that you would actually have to post based upon knowledge of the game instead of just being part of a fan club lol.

    Just sayin...
     
  40. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Love it, last reply by Ignored member. :danceb: