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Ideas for a Classic Shard...NOT THE USUAL

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Morgana LeFay (PoV), Feb 14, 2009.

  1. Okay, we have seen post after post after post about a pre UO:R shard. I want one, many of you want one...even Draconi hinted that it might be possible.

    So...here is what I would like to see from a Classic pre OU:R shard.

    - No Trammel, of course
    - None of the other expansion lands besides T2A.
    - Greatly reduced monster loot in the form of gold.
    - An even Greater greatly reduced monster loot in the form of items.
    - No AoS anything...no AoS skills, no AoS items, no AoS item properties...nothing.
    - A return of Power Hour.
    - 1 House per accout. If you have one on another shard, too bad.
    - No custom housing, or at least a HUGE reduction in the amount of tile sets.
    - No unrealistic colors for items, hair, swampies, etc.
    - No Recall
    - 1 vendor per house
    - Current house security (not everything since T2A sucked)
    - Same number of characters as a production shard
    - NPCs will only buy from you one time per real world week (5 item limit)
    - Greater Dragons not tamable.
    - No Dread Warhorses.
    - Modified Fel ruleset. (see below)

    Modified Fel ruleset:
    - You can agree to duel another player with no murder counts.
    - Full looting for everyone...including blues.
    - 10 murders = perma red.
    - 1 character on your account on this shard is red=all characters on the shard are red.
    - NPC vendors will not sell or buy from your if you are red.
    - Thieves are free to steal from anyone, no thieves guild, no disguise kit, etc. However, if you are in town, and caught, the guards whack you. Also, you are grey to your 'mark' for 1 real world month.
    - Roving bands of NPC paladins that are as powerful and fast as paragon lich lords. They only target reds.
    - Full ability to carve corpses and take heads.
    - Player run bounty system. Someone kills you, you put a price on their head.
    - Guilds can fight w/o murder counts.
    - Factions included.
    - No insurance.
    - Stat loss for reds.
    - No power/stat scrolls
    - Champ spawns included...but with different rewards.
    - No trial accounts. Period.
    - Server imposed speed limit, no speedhacks.


    I may think of more, but let me explain a couple of things.

    I would like to see the economy on this shard remain robust without the ability for players to quickly make billions of gold. That's why I included the limits on NPC buying and selling, and monster loot, etc.

    I would like to see PKing have some real consequences. In a true open PvP environment, killing should not be a thoughtless decision.

    In this type of environment, Greater Dragons and Dread War Horses (and possibly other pets) would be overpowered...really overpowered, not just to people that don't know what they are doing.

    Any classic shard should be built with a 3rd party software detector built right in, and if you are caught running ANY 3rd party program that affects UO, including UOA, you should be permanently banned from the shard.

    There should be no Xsharding at all for this shard.

    This shard should reset all vet reward timers. Everyone starts equal.



    Okay...that's all I have right now...discuss.


    Notes:

    Please avoid posting anti-classic shard rhetoric. If you don't want to see a classic shard, that's fine. There is a list of shards for you to select...just don't select this one.

    Also, please try to discuss things like adults. If you disagree with my ideas, that's fine...but there is not need to resort to name calling or bashing. Simply post what YOU would do differently, and move on. No need to degrade this thread into personal attacks.

    I'd love to hear from old timers on this that left the game. How would this approach have influenced your decision to leave?
     
  2. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    No reason to have dreadmares or greater dragons, old dragons and nightmares would kill them fast. Most likely.
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Hum interesting........ Not a bad concept though highly unlikely to work.... but I might consider such a shard. Though you need some check in place for folk getting high bounties and then having one of their buddies kill them for the reward.


    Also, there should be some way to make being a "good guy" more profitable... or at least more rewarding......

    I almost miss power hour in a way.


    So then would you do away with pet bonding too? Or keep that as well as the limit on slots?
     
  4. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    You almost lost me at power hour. *shudders* What a game killer... Fine for a solo affair. *winks*

    A very thought provoking post, though. I wish I could get you interested in Siege. It is the established "alt" shard. We are certainly open to some changes.

    If you have a crew that ever wants to get a foothold on Siege let me know.

    I will watch this thread and see what develops. It should be interesting.
     
  5. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I stopped at Powerhour. A pre AOS shard W/O tram and other lands is all thats needed, or a revert to siege to pre aos combat/ item system. I know how poorly a pre UO:R server would do based on PRS numbers, The UO:Rish one beats em all hands down.
     
  6. True. I am not sure how they got around this in the old days...but they did.

    Bounty hunting?

    Power Hour was better than GGS. And certainly better than RoT. Or, even better...why not just go back to the original way...RNG?


    I would advocate for keeping pet bonding and control slots.

    Attacking an enemy guild with 5 dragons controlled by myself was fun, but it was overpowered beyond belief. People complain about tamers now, but back then, we ruled the game!
     
  7. That is just one of many ideas.

    What is your objection to Power Hour?

    It allowed people that could not play all day long to be competitive. And it allowed those of us that wanted to work on skills when we first logged in, in the middle, or at the end of play to actually play the game instead of concentrating on raising skills the entire time.

    However, I freely admit. I GM taming BEFORE Power Hour, so I guess for me, PH was not necessary.

    But I am not inflexible here! If there is a good reason for no PH, then fine...no PH.

    I just want the shard to be popular, and I want it to actually happen!

    (Draconi...get some suits on board!!!)
     
  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Power hour... no I can't do anything with you guys, I have 45 minutes of power hour left.
     
  9. I have a character on Siege. I had one a few years ago as well.

    My #1 problem with Siege is the same as my #1 problem with production shard Fel. It is a PvP-fest with no consequences.

    I hated the introduction of Trammel...but I completely understand why it was done. The players had no incentive to not act in an anti-social manner, and thus chaos reigned.

    My shard ideas address that...and in many ways, it is what Siege is...but without the restrictions of 1 character...plus some other changes.

    The shard I have in mind would essentially revert Ultima Online to T2A, and address the PK problem the way it should have been addressed in the beginning.

    I loved the idea of Good vs. Evil that was introduced and never implemented on the regular shards back then.

    If there had been some incentive to whack smack-talking 13 year old punks back then, we would have never gone down the path of Tram/Fel...and by extention AoS.

    The devs of the day for UO found themselves at a great crossroads back then...and they chose poorly. I would like to see an opportunity to make that choice again, and to restore this game to something that it has not been since then...a living, breathing, world with a community of players that not only could, but would, enforce justices themselves...without the need of GM/Dev intervention.
     
  10. That is a fair statement. And I agree.

    Perhaps there should have been a way to postpone powerhour? There is no reason that PH could not be coded to work on demand. A player that logs in at 6pm today could select his or her PH to start now, but would have to wait at least 24 real world hours to chose to start it again.

    Imagine being able to do what you wanted, for pretty much as long as you wanted, and then, when you were done...work on your skills.

    I would love that flexibility.
     
  11. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    Let me tell you when you have 1 hour of powerhour per character and multi characters a person tends to worry mory about their hours than playing the game or hanging with guildmates. When PH was going I would at least spend 5+hours a day focusing on just my gains nothing else. its not the right way to go about it. I would rather them allow unattended skill macroing. Most would do it anyway reguardless.
     
  12. Good point.

    I know that when PH was going, I was working on my characters (besides Morgana) for every PH every day.

    But consider this...

    ...how are players that only have an hour or two per day supposed to remain competitive, especially in a PvP ruleset?

    I understand that Tram players can move at their own pace...but a player that is ganked, jumped, whacked, PKed...whatever...wants to get to the top of their skills as quickly as possible to avoid this, and to be able to fight back.

    I do understand your point. Power Hour makes players less social...but I say, if it gets them closer to being competitive, in a shorter amount of time, it lets them enjoy all aspects of the game in a shorter amount of time.

    As to UMing:

    I have always thought, if you could do it without 3rd party programs, then who cares? As long as either everyone can do it, or no one can do it...it is not a balance issue.
     
  13. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    You mean pretty much Siege without RoT?
     
  14. No, not really.

    I mean Siege with:

    - Multiple characters.
    - No expansions beyond T2A.
    - Consequences for PKing
    - No AoS properties
    - No powerscrolls

    etc.


    Did you actually read my post???

    I am not trying to get snippy with you, but come on...just because the shard is Fel rules and has some lower vendor prices does not a Siege/Mugen make.
     
  15. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    While there are a few good ideas that should be done on normal shards, I'll pass on yet another attempt at a "classic" shard as it's just proving the point made long ago that the definition of a "classic" shard differs so greatly that there'd be no way for the devs to win in that regard.

    Line item concepts I agree with:

    - Greatly reduced monster loot in the form of gold.
    - An even Greater greatly reduced monster loot in the form of items.
    - No unrealistic colors for items, hair, etc.
    - No Recall (Actually let me adjust this one... no MARKING inside dungeons... so you can recall/SJ/Gate OUT of the dungeon, but not into it, you have to start at an entrance. If you want to go straight in to a specific spot, you'll have to get a party member to gate from that spot)
    - Greater Dragons not tamable.

    Fel changes:
    - Full looting for everyone...including blues.
    - NPC vendors will not sell or buy from your if you are red

    Specific things disagreed with:

    - No Trammel, of course
    - A return of Power Hour.
    - NPCs will only buy from you one time per real world week (5 item limit)
    - 1 character on your account on this shard is red=all characters on the shard are red.
     
  16. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I did read your post and outside those things you mentioned and Rate over Time your describing features already found on Siege...
     


  17. Thing is, it is WAAAAAAYYY TOO late to introduce any of that to current production shards.

    People have vast fortunes, dupes, rares, etc.

    That is why I suggest introducing it on a classic shard.

    As to whether a classic shard would work...that is for another debate, on another thread. I am merely saying that to avoid the ridiculous fortunes, gold selling, and inflation...it needs to go into a classic shard if there is to be one.
     
  18. Really? Let's take a look...

    - No Trammel, of course - Yep
    - None of the other expansion lands besides T2A. - Nope
    - Greatly reduced monster loot in the form of gold. - Yep
    - An even Greater greatly reduced monster loot in the form of items. - Nope
    - No AoS anything...no AoS skills, no AoS items, no AoS item properties...nothing. - Nope...not even close.
    - A return of Power Hour. Nope
    - 1 House per accout. If you have one on another shard, too bad. - Yep
    - No custom housing, or at least a HUGE reduction in the amount of tile sets. -Nope
    - No unrealistic colors for items, hair, swampies, etc. - Nope
    - No Recall - Yep
    - 1 vendor per house - Nope
    - Current house security (not everything since T2A sucked) - Yep
    - Same number of characters as a production shard - Nope
    - NPCs will only buy from you one time per real world week (5 item limit) - Nope
    - Greater Dragons not tamable. - Nope
    - No Dread Warhorses. - Nope
    - Modified Fel ruleset. (see below)

    Modified Fel ruleset:
    - You can agree to duel another player with no murder counts. - Nope
    - Full looting for everyone...including blues. - Yep
    - 10 murders = perma red. - Nope
    - 1 character on your account on this shard is red=all characters on the shard are red. - by default, Nope
    - NPC vendors will not sell or buy from your if you are red. - Nope
    - Thieves are free to steal from anyone, no thieves guild, no disguise kit, etc. However, if you are in town, and caught, the guards whack you. Also, you are grey to your 'mark' for 1 real world month. - Nope
    - Roving bands of NPC paladins that are as powerful and fast as paragon lich lords. They only target reds. - Nope, nothing even close
    - Full ability to carve corpses and take heads. - Nope
    - Player run bounty system. Someone kills you, you put a price on their head. - Not that I am aware of
    - Guilds can fight w/o murder counts. - Yep
    - Factions included. - Yep
    - No insurance. - Nope
    - Stat loss for reds. - Nope
    - No power/stat scrolls - Nope
    - Champ spawns included...but with different rewards. - Nope
    - No trial accounts. Period. - Nope
    - Server imposed speed limit, no speedhacks. - Nope, not even close.



    So 8 points out of 30.

    How exactly does this make it like Siege.

    Again, just because it is Fel Rules...sort of...does not make it like Siege.

    Understand?
     
  19. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Well, I disagree on some of it. I don't think it's too late to do a general "loot quantity nerf" (although I will also say we need popular and voluntary working gold sinks to help rebalance the economy along with the loot changes).

    The rest in the top section, I agree, it's too late. Neon was really a side effect of the pallette limitations of the 2d client and making greater dragons tamable at all was a HUGE mistake IMO.

    The two Fel changes I don't think are too late, Fel should never have gotten "instanced corpses", nor should they have all but eliminated the "punishments" for being red.

    As for the rest of the reply, I would be VERY surprised if ANY UO shard could be made that would be "dupe proof" and even if it weren't, after 11+ years of functioning not counting dupes, just due to the lack of constant and useful gold sinks and the level at which people can farm loot, you're still going to end up very much like where the normal shards are economy-wise.

    You're still going to end up with people who are MUCH richer than others, people who sell gold for cash, and in time inflation will set in, you can only try to mitigate these things, you can't avoid them even if there are no dupe bugs... and the chances of us seeing a UO server running an entirely new codebase and never having a dupe bugu is just... well, let's say I feel safer buying a powerball ticket than betting on that one.

    There are some good ideas listed, but there are some dealbreakers as well... at least for me.
     
  20. The problem is, not everyone wants to buy 500,000,000,000 gold hair dye, or a rug for 20,000,000,000,000 gold.

    People are not uninformed. Once they find out that a solid solution for scripting and gold farming is going into place, plus a loot nerf...they will hold on to all the gold they have.

    The only real "fix" to the economy on the production shards is to:

    Introduce Platinum, making gold worthless and valuing everything in Platinum
    at a skewed rate.

    or

    Wiping the existing gold on all accounts above a certain amount.

    Either way, it would result in an artificial situation that will serve only to p!ss off players...so it will not happen.

    Absolutely not.

    Neon was the result of taking something that should be been left VERY scarce (glacial staffs) and introducing it as commonplace. There was no reason for it beyond someone somewhere deciding that fruity colored weapons based on their elemental damage would be "kewl". It was a mistake, it should never have happened, and now it is prolific.


    I would agree if it were not for the constant escalation of power that exists in UO. Back in 2005, when I returned from a 2 year break due to a hacking, I discovered something called a Yamodon (sp?). My White Wyrm/Mare/Me combo got our collective asses handed to us on a plater.

    Since that time, Mondain's Legacy only served to up the requirements for fighting peerless bosses and tougher and tougher creatures.

    Yes, Greater Dragons have had some effect on PvP, causing those that were used to doing things a certain way to rethink the way the do them, but in the end, tamers were facing obscelesnce without some kind of higher end pet.

    Greater Dragons were a step back toward something that should have ALWAYS remained true in UO...DRAGONS KICK BUTT HARD! This had been lost, and I am glad to see it back personally.

    I never said anything about dupe-proof. I don't know how duping works, so I cannot say anything about it one way or another.

    But I can say this, if there were ZERO 3rd party programs, and ZERO trial accounts, plus reduced loot on monsters, I think scripting/gold farming would be GREATLY reduced.

    Nothing in classic UO cost a freakin' million gold...nothing! Much less individual pieces of armor selling for 50,000,000 gold!!! That's simply absurd! And unfortunately, it is far too common on the production shards these days.



    Well...I have given up faith that EA will restore UO to it's former glory. But I am speaking hypothetically here.

    Regardless of the outcome, I will still stand behind my ideas of a classic shard, and if by some twist of fate...one comes into being...I will leave my 11 year home shard and live there until the day UO is closed down.
     
  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Some of the ideas were a bit confusing to me, but the idea overall is ok.

    As for items, I would have some AOS properties (no skill+), but have them be just one thing. Like hit lower defense is called weaken or something, and if a weapon has it, it always does the same thing, at the same rate.

    That way you still have some variety with no confusion.
     
  22. I could see that...as long as the items were identifiable, instead of show-on-mouse-hover.

    But I really prefer the old Supremely Accurate Sword of Might type stuff...personally. I could even see allow some of the AoS properties, as long as they were kept in check...but not the elemental damage system.

    The whole thing just turns into a big item based equation with AoS.
     
  23. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    Why not use all the time you would spend here makeing up silly posts to go explore the freeshards and find one that is to your taste or even learn how to set one up and make your dreams come true!
     
  24. Is this really necessary? Is it really that hard to just go, 'hey, I disagree with this person's ideas' and then move on rather than making an a$$ of yourself by posting something like this?

    I have just as much right to post here as anyone else, and believe it or not, there are UO players that are older than 14 years old that would actually enjoy playing on a classic shard.
     
  25. shanshu

    shanshu Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm in with one exception. I still want all the current skills, however they should be capped at 100.
     
  26. I agree. A classic shard should not have powerscrolls.
     
  27. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    overall i like the idea with a few minor tweaks....

    - An even Greater greatly reduced monster loot in the form of items. <-- applies to MIB & treasure chest loot too. bring back silver weapons, the whole might/power/invulernability scheme for weapons. same applies for armor; use the old method of determining the quality of the armor.
    - No AoS anything...no AoS skills, no AoS items, no AoS item properties...nothing. AMEN. get rid of the jewelry! also make things (armor/weapons) break again. no LRC or luck armor either. bring folks back to town to camp the reg shops.
    - A return of Power Hour. Maybe GGS instead of power hour?
    - No unrealistic colors for items, hair, swampies, etc. swampies & anything introduced by or around the time of McFarland should be removed.
    - No Recall - classic shards had recall so I wouldn't do away with recall. but i think the moongates should revert to the way they formerly worked where the gate would take you to a destination based on the phase of the moon
    - 1 vendor per house - never was a limit to vendors back in the day & don't agree there should be any limits imposed on a classic shard.
    - NPCs will only buy from you one time per real world week (5 item limit) - restore the way NPCs used to buy...they bought until they ran out of money (which back then they didn't have much)
    - Greater Dragons not tamable. get rid of these altogether
    - No Dread Warhorses. - buh-bye

    Modified Fel ruleset:
    - 10 murders = perma red. not crazy about this idea. while this might not be a popular idea with some, i'd like to see stat loss (after death) brought back for reds. this kinda makes the good vs. evil concept meaningful.
    - 1 character on your account on this shard is red=all characters on the shard are red. i understand the thought process here but i can't say i'm crazy about this idea.
    - Thieves are free to steal from anyone, no thieves guild, no disguise kit, etc. However, if you are in town, and caught, the guards whack you. Also, you are grey to your 'mark' for 1 real world month. a bit harsh. no guard whacking UNLESS the player catches you in the act. i forget the time frame a thief remained grey but think it was only a few minutes -- that's ok. maybe bring back perma-grey? allow thieves to steal from monsters & npc's again.
    - Roving bands of NPC paladins that are as powerful and fast as paragon lich lords. They only target reds. Love it! Also allow them to be hired to give your miner a fighting chance. hehe.
     
  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    1. Thank you for the eloquence with which you proved one of my longest-running points about "classic shard" requests....That almost everyone wants something different and that no option they select will come close to satisfying all the people who request classic shards so incessantly. They'd be attempting to satisfy 10 different demographics (at least) simultaneously, and couldn't possibly do so unless they offered 10 entirely separate products, none of which could receive full support, and which would compete against each other and against the main product. If you doubt this is a recipe for disaster, just look at General Motors, another company which has multiple brand names competing against one another.


    2. What you propose isn't really a classic shard, because the rules set you propose never existed in-game. (Only perm-red I remember, for example, came not from 10 or any other particular number of counts, but rather from bouncing back and forth between red and blue a certain number of times....And even that's a simplified way to express it. Suffice it to say, becoming perma-red was fairly uncommon.) Rather this is a "custom shard" proposal. Thank you for the eloquence with which you have proven something I never thought of: That requests for classic shards, sooner or later, evolve into requests for custom shards. This is a logical outgrowth of my other point, so it bewilders me why it took me this long to realize it.


    3. I am constrained to point out an issue with this statement:

    Namely, it is basically a conceptual contradiction of this statement, issued just a short while later:

    I know from experience that it is going to be a near impossibility to disagree on this point without being accused of "rhetoric" or "propaganda" or some other discursive sin. I'm long-since OK with the insults levied at me.


    4. Related to 3, I must also point out that it'd be a lot easier to not post in "classic" shard, and related, threads if the Fellies would stop posting insults in threads about playstyles other than their own. An excellent example is the thread on EM-conducted UO weddings that had to be locked by Stratics after multiple Fellies posting about how stupid UO weddings were. Another excellent example would be a thread about house decoration that was hijacked by Fellies posting about how stupid it was to play UO and spend your time decorating your UO house. You cannot possibly reasonably expect to be granted a courtesy that is commonly un-reciprocated.


    5. Finally, if they were to ever do a Classic Shard, or a Custom Shard, it would have an impact on the overall game in a way that, say, UO weddings, house decorations, role-playing, and other aspects of the game just do not. It therefore, moreso than those other things, warrants comment by its opposition. To ask for the opposition to not comment is tantamount to my posting that Felucca should be removed from the game, and ask Fellies to not comment. What are the odds that request would be honored?


    -Galen's player
     
  29. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    So you want a classic shard with no reds. I mean really why not just suggest if you take damage as a red your char gets deleted?