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IDOC Depression

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Philly, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. Philly

    Philly Seasoned Veteran

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    Well what can I say? I have a house on Yamoto and was packed full of goodies. But when IDOC's drop a hand full of people that know who they are get everything. They use a script that's snags every damn thing in under 2 seconds and anyone else walks away empty handed.
    I am told nothing can be done about this. I was told "Mesanna" doesn't care" This is a major part of game play and I feel everyone should be able, allowed to participate also.
    I go through the game everyday and tell myself its doesn't matter it doesn't matter just mine some ore and shop your wood and do your damn BOD's.
    But It does matter.....If I want any type of rare I have to make and sell stuff for a year to buy on rare at 150 mil. During the same time they are making billions errr Plat's. Why are the people that are using illegal scripts allowed to continue to do this? Also those of you that do this and read this because I know some of you are here on stratics......It's not fair. It's not nice. Why so greedy and ruin a game for everyone else so you can make money off a game? Not Right Not Fair!
     
  2. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    You are %100 right and what is "SAD" is like you said Mesanna and the others d not seam to care one little bit. As far as the people that do this they could honestly care less what you think as long as they make their real money. Don't let them fool you, they know exactly what everybody does every day the just chose to turn a blind eye.
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    We have all asked this question a 100 times over ... Nothing changes... and in the meantime the game has become more and more stuff oriented which is feeding this insatiable greed... and because nothing is ever done to anyone selling gold and such the gold seller spams all day every day... litters his books all over everywhere... they use cheats to loot, cheats to PvP, cheats to IDOC, cheats to place houses, cheats to run 4 and 5 accounts simultaneously so they can get more drops, more stuff and more gold... and NOTHING is done.

    Every change they make to "combat" cheaters only makes life worse for the rest of us... randomization of Ore and Wood, 15 hour IDOC timer... I could go on... but whatever... between all that and the DEVs making everything in the game into a timewasting grind where you do the same thing 100x to get 1 item... I'm just about fed up with the game...

    Add in the Art of late being completely horrible and lacking any texture and such I just want to throw in the towel and say "I give"... I had such love for the game... but it's dying... And watching it swirl the drain just breaks my heart.
     
  4. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    one has to wonder "why" nothing is being done. I've been around a long time, I have seen this game go from being "cool", to," why do I still try?"
     
  5. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman
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    Idocs are nothing but a constant reminder of the sad state of UO, and a grab bag for the greedy. If i were a lead dev, i would have gotten rid of this slimy system altogether long ago.

    Im sorry - i dont sympathize for any of your frustrations.
     
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  6. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    I don't believe IDOCing was ever supposed to be a "major part of game play" and think this is the last area that limited developer dollars and resources should be spent on trying to make better.

    However, as you noted, we all know the small handful of creeps with their scripts that vacuum everything up in two seconds. Call them out in game, tell all your friends about them, find out who their alts are and stop doing business with them. That's your best option for dealing with it.
     
  7. Horde Minion

    Horde Minion Visitor

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    When I asked Mesanna at the last M&G if the concept of idocs could be made simpler because most players do not have up to 15 hrs to spend watching a house she certainly was receptive to possible change. I asked if the house sign could have a clock stating when the house would fall or even and old style msg board with idocs listed. I mentioned on a small few who script and can sit a char at a idoc and know theu the script when each 5 hrs will happen. She said if that the case she would just put the owners belongings in their bank and nothing would remain to be picked up. The next day I read here Mesanna showed up at an idoc. The devs do hear us if you want it changed keep asking.
     
  8. petemage

    petemage Sage

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    :lol:

    You know, the 15 hour timer became a thing after people asked her to hange IDOCs the last time.
     
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  9. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sage
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    I went to an IDOC last month. Thanks to a helpful person announcing the exact time in General Chat, I only had to wait less than an hour.

    I think I got a chair.
     
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  10. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Slightly Crazed
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    Cant disagree with 'major part of gameplay' bit but the developers certainly should be addressing this. They spend time on far less important things.

    Call them out in game? Zero effect
    Tell your friends about them? Zero effect
    Find out who their alts are and stop doing business? Even if you could find out I doubt they would give a toss

    Whilst you put the burden to resolve this on other players (wrongly) you completely chose to ignore the fact that Messana and co are wilfully allowing this to happen. You simply will not address this. Stop shaking your pom poms for once in your life and actually come out and condemn something that really really deserves condemnation
     
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  11. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Biggest part of the Problems in UO IMO are that the DEVs are unwilling to bear witness to the atrocities and stop them.

    It doesn't take a genius to see who's scripting... It doesn't take a genius to see who's multiboxing, it doesn't take a genius to see who's dropping all the gold selling books...

    But it does take someone to care and someone to actively stop them... If they took to deleting the offenders accounts as well as all their other accounts... as in take all of them ...... drop their houses burn them to the ground... Adopt a Zero Tolerance policy for some of the worst offenses... don't just give them a slap on the wrist and let them go right back at it...

    If the DEVs went to IDOCs and stayed hidden from view and watched what exactly happens when the house falls they would see it... Especially if they attended every Luna IDOC with great care... they would not only see the script looters but they would get to see the script using placers as well.

    And we all know who they are... But from what I've noticed in the years I've played is many people talk smack about the cheaters but they are first in line to buy whatever they are selling... including gold... they buy the houses, they buy the goods, they buy the gold... they may claim they don't like it and don't want cheaters in-game but they turn right around and buy the stuff for ridiculous prices and including RL cash.

    I highly doubt you'd ever be able to get "everyone" to stop buying that stuff. And as long as "someone" is buying it.... they'll continue to script it because they make a profit.
     
  12. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    whats more sad people moaning about not getting there loot off IDOCS then of player leaving and the devs not doing anything about trying to promote the game.
     
  13. Grazz't1970

    Grazz't1970 Journeyman

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    Only way to fix it is for stuff to disappear or go back to banks. Either way you still get nothing!!! Play or quit. But stop typing!! This thread appears monthly!!! It's like Bart Simpson and the cupcake - ow grab again ow grab again...
     
  14. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    I cannot replace your belongings, but if you're ever on Great Lakes message me I'd like to give you 250M to take the sting off.

    Offer stands anytime.

    Happy Holidays.
     
  15. Eärendil

    Eärendil Legendary Mall Santa
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    I hate IDOC-scripters. As Christian I am not allowed to hate and should love my enemies... But I cannot love this scum. Same with event multoboxers. Both groups represent everything that went wrong with UO...

    Merry Christmas!
     
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  16. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Fel idocs are the best cuz scripters would be killed. Reason I also like fel idocs is it's fun stealthing in grabbing stuff underneath red players noses. Sometimes you might make a stupid move,and get revealed, but once you get rezzed you might have a pack of blessed items in your pack. Another biggest reason to do fel idocs you might get a idoc to yourself.
     
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  17. PaulCH

    PaulCH Journeyman

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    Absolutely dead on. The only question is...why do houses go IDOC? The answer is mostly because people are leaving. Unfortunately, it's likely that the scripters will be the ones to "turn off the lights". It's a catch-22, they are part of what's wrong with UO yet, in it's current state, are contributing to keeping UO alive.

    My only suggestion for IDOCs is to make *every* container from a house that goes IDOC into a locked treasure chest with guardians (at the former house's location...the loot wouldn't be spread out to treasure chests across the lands). IDOCs are treated as chests based on their size. Castles are level 7 and it goes down from there but only until the equivalent of a level 4 chest and that would be exclusively be for the smallest house, with all others being 5 and higher.

    In an ideal world where UO is over-run with players. First scripting incident....1 month ban. Second scripting incident...6 months. Third scripting incident is a lifetime ban of the account, credit card and IP. They can get new accounts, credit cards and use VPNs but at least it causes them some inconvenience. I would define scripting very broadly as use of any non-authorized third party program.

    *But* we are not in ideal world so it makes me wonder who would be left if you ban all the players who use scripting to cheat.
     
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  18. petemage

    petemage Sage

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    History has shown players are way more likely to get jailed for AFK training skills in Haven than script looting IDOCs or multiboxing at events. From that point of view, I'm rather happy they don't even try at all.
     
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  19. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    The only issue with Idocs is that they're too long.

    Scripting won't change and cannot be combatted without banning people.

    Cap them back down to 5 hours and keep the random placement timer.

    I never understood why they "fixed" something that wasn't broken to begin with.

    I could almost stomach the 5, 10, 15 hours but none of the ones I've been to have ever been 5 or 10 hours...
     
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  20. The Slug

    The Slug Seasoned Veteran
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    I have a heartwarming story about an IDOC last night. I found out an old friend's castle was going to fall and despite the fact I never do IDOC's I went just to see if I could save a few mementos. Upon arrival I noticed a brit boat parked right next to it and an 18x18 placed behind it with empty bags placed on the doorstep. The castle had just passed the 5 hr mark so all the scripters had left. I was only there 5 minutes before I grew depressed and left. When I left I saw that old friend leaving Luna. To make a long story short, she managed to save her castle and other homes after 5 hours. Of course I was reviled in chat when I said it was great to see her back, and as an added bonus be able to give the middle finger to the vultures.
     
  21. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    Always good to see players return.

    Shame it takes such a state to do so.
     
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  22. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Grand Inquisitor
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    We all know why the scripting is allowed to continue. I wont post it again because it does no good.

    But one clue should be in the fact that the devs extended the drop time to 15 hours...which no real person can sit thru, but bots and scripts can.
    Do the math for yourself
     
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  23. Riply

    Riply Lore Keeper
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    Sad to see this but becuase of this I stopped attending idocs long ago. Why do people do this? 1st becuase they can with out any penalty. Second some probably enjoy ruining the event for the players who attend and act in legal fashion. eventually most give up in frustration. Which makes less players attending the idoc and more for them. The third and most likely reason is, some players actually use this game as a means to make real life money for themselves. Eventually they will defeat themselves when enough players quit the game and UO does not exist anymore. I suppose that they will move on to a new game to make money on. I still see scriptors mining ore etc.
    I would like there to be a way to recognize a script and once its implemented they are teleported to jail and all belongings in there back pack go back to the idoc. Wishfull thinking I know but that would be pretty sweet.
     
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  24. THP

    THP Always Present
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    UO is played in manu many many many different ways and styles

    some Idocing is there gameplay choice....it used to be mine...alas when the scripting started i gave up....i used to love that game style....

    some folks like doing champs...some like doing the roofs....some like pvp...some just like doing crafting and bods...

    please dont come in on here and say this is and this is not a playstyle.... there are 100 reasons why 100 different folks play UO

    AND YES Idocs are screwd with the 15 hours stupidity..but hey it doent matter if it was dropped to 3-4 hours because untill scripting is challeneged head on ...the scripters will WIN UO
     
  25. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Did you own the house that went IDOC? Or were you watching someone else's house go through the process of collapsing?
     
  26. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    My memory tells me something different and if i remember correctly the old system of idocs got broken when some changes were made in game and they became FUBAR and was unintentional. Following this the 'NEW' system was introduced and despite much dissent by players about it and the fact that Idocs would become a scripters paradise we were told that it was in and would NOT be changed. We have had this idiotic system ever since so it should not have been news to Messana or any of the devs that scripting at idocs has become the norm. There have been complaints about scripting in these forums ever since I started playing and I see absolutely no chance that anything will ever get done now. Those in the Ivory tower have allowed it to happen and i fear we just have to live with it.
     
  27. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Informing your friends of the people (and guilds) to avoid doing business with in game has a big effect. In our small community, word of mouth matters a lot more than you think.

    This has been going on a long time, and "Mesanna and Co." likely don't have any way to combat this without spending significant amount of time and budget to address. As I previously noted, IDOCing was never meant to be a play style and any time or dollars spent addressing it are resources not spent on new content and resolving existing game play bugs.

    Acknowledging that their resources are better spent elsewhere on new content doesn't amount to 'shaking pom poms'. I believe the expectations the community has to deal with this issue is a lot more hopeful than realistic. There are certain few IDOC scripter guys who I have very little love for and loudly condemn on a private basis. However, dealing with scripters is ALOT easier said than done and that is something that a lot of folks don't seem to acknowledge. I don't want the Devs or GMs wasting time policing IDOCs.
     
  28. Grazz't1970

    Grazz't1970 Journeyman

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    It's ironic that people want the idoc system to be easier..So they can get someone else's earned stuff for free. Really??? You guys need Jesus....sinners
     
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  29. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Slightly Crazed
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    The fact that you wont publicly condemn this policy of condonement and think taking steps to ban these scripters is a waste of time speaks volumes.
     
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  30. THP

    THP Always Present
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    ''As I previously noted, IDOCing was never meant to be a play style''....


    wtf so is multiboxing the em events a recognized play style we should rejoyice
     
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  31. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    As I already said to you, it's easier said than done. You can try to imply whatever you want, but read my previous statement where I say I have no love for IDOC scripters. I simply believe it's a waste of resources to address this.

    What they really should do is completely eliminate IDOCs and make all items disappear when a house falls.
     
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  32. nexus

    nexus Site Support
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    I disagree, that alone would be a diversion of resources. I'd rather they do something to combat scripting and multi-boxing that would have a positive impact in multiple areas and as a result eliminate this and several other issues by doing so.

    Better allocation of their time, they'd be addressing several areas of the game at once instead of just IDOCs.
     
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  33. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    And I disagree with allocating any resources to address this. If they could've done it, my guess is that they would have addressed this a long time ago.

    I don't script or multi-box and have zero issue with getting items at EM events. I don't view that as a legitimate complaint, and more of a "I want one too" type of whining.
     
  34. nexus

    nexus Site Support
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    It isn't just IDOCs and EM Events though people multi-box and use scripts while engaging in various activities. Resources or not, if they can't or won't enforce their own ToS they need to come out and say so and modify their rules accordingly and open the door for everyone to "cheat" and let people make their decisions accordingly not spoon out half hearted comments and ambivalent responses to questions.

    Until then you better believe my opinion is they need to stop the cheating in the game before they do anything else. Without a level playing field for everyone we're going to continue to see shoddy releases due to trying to compensate for the people skewing all the data..
     
  35. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    If you want 150b/p rares. Do things in the game that make more gold than mining ore, chopping wood, and filling your damn BODs. As for illegal scripting at IDOCs..I don't know what to say I've never wasted a second of my time at one. Unless I know the exact second it's falling, or there is a fight.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  36. Lieutenant Dan!

    Lieutenant Dan! Journeyman

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    Teleport all the loot from the idoc to random places all over fel t2a. Risk v reward. Let the hunt begin!
     
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  37. cazador

    cazador Grand Inquisitor
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    Hahaha!!! That would be fun. But they would have to mirror it in Tram to dam up the tears.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  38. Lieutenant Dan!

    Lieutenant Dan! Journeyman

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    In all fairness to the Devs they have made positive strides in the past to make life more difficult for scripters at idocs.
    That's why we have houses going private during the decay stages, Grubbers, and timers on house placement tools. It did work for awhile and it was fun while it lasted.
    The problem as with most changes like this is that it didn't take long for people to come up with new scripts that accommodated the changes.
     
  39. petemage

    petemage Sage

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    I didn't mean the players asked for the 15 hour timer. But IIRC the discussion was more about scripters and using trial accounts to snag stuff up. Then after some time DEVs gave in and changed the system in the way they thought it needs change. Indeed I don't recall a single poster here asking for the 5/10/15 hour rule.

    That's were it started: trail accs. Couple of days and one iteration later we are here: i hate the new idoc changes!. Lots of emails in between I guess as well.

    Someone recently said something like "peoples Stratics crusades have consequences". Couldn't agree more. In the end people asked for a pretty ok system to get screwed.
     
    #39 petemage, Dec 24, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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  40. SugarMMM

    SugarMMM Seasoned Veteran
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    I have lost a bunch of houses back in the day when you had to open the door to refresh it. Most of them were on the Yamato and Asuka with the time difference and servers constantly reverting I lost a bunch of houses and amazing stuff!

    I'll start playing on Great Lakes with an offer like that! Serious.

    OK since this is a thread about IDOC's i'll share what I said on another thread.
    In my opinion I think IDOC houses should lift up off of the map like the house in the movie UP and I have always thought it would be fun for the game if items from IDOCs could be redistributed somehow into the game. They could put random bits into Tmaps, SOS's, chests/barrels or on animal/monster loot for someone to find.

    Another idea is that I don't think that peoples stuff not in a bank box should be saved for free if they somehow left and then decide to come back. If they decide to come back then how about a storage fee they could pay in real life $$ if they wanted their stuff back? There should be a timer on this also so it won't be abused as another storage option and go poof if held over a certain amount of time. This would give people the chance to fix billing issues or other stuff.

    Or how about putting it up for in game auction like on the TV show Storage Wars where they auction off storage units?

    Thanks for listening. Hehe
     
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  41. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    It would be nice, but that statement is wishful thinking and not going to happen. Your opinion is as valid as mine or any others in the thread.

    As I've said multiple times in this thread: Easier said than done. They would've done it years ago if it was as simple as everyone makes it out to be. And don't take my comments as trying to be disagreeable: I'm just being a realist and letting people know they're falsely getting their hopes up if they think the development team is going to stop working on new content and pivot resources toward policing a small handful of scripters. I simply don't think the old code leads to many ways to accomplish this.

    If it's true they're coming out with "permanent" trial accounts, that's probably only going to make things worse unless they increase the amount of restrictions compared to what current trial accounts have. I suggest people reading buck up and continue looking for better ways to combat to scripters in-game.

    The game and it's player base will continue to adapt, overcome and conquer. Overall, complaints about cheating in this game are highly overblown and made out to be a lot worse than what's actually happening.

    Furthermore, IMHO, developing new content is more important than addressing "cheating" at IDOCs or EM events.


    This much I will concede: the ToS should be amended accordingly per your suggestion.

    At the very least, it would maybe cut down on some UHall complaints :gee:
     
  42. Meltedmantis

    Meltedmantis Adventurer

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    Idocing is a play style in the same way you can call a bug a feature. The only way to fix this "feature" is to fix the bug. Remove Idocing. Period.
     
    Kirthag likes this.
  43. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

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    Don't you think if there were a legit way to combat the scripters we'd already be using it???

    The reason we can't is because we can't kill them in Tram... can't reveal them... don't have the 15 hours to waste standing at the IDOC where they can just set script walk away... or do something else... We don't have that luxury... Anything else we try like "luring" mobs over or whatever is against the ToS... and since you can't reveal them what is the point of trying?

    Can't beat them... can't block them... can't stop their scripts... we could just join them and set up scripts too.... but the idea is to stop cheaters.
     
  44. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Babbling Loonie
    Governor

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    Most of them don't have any real skills. Drop Harbingers when the house falls, and watch them run or die! :devil:
     
    #44 Keith of Sonoma, Dec 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  45. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
    Professional Campaign Patron

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    I wish they'd incorporate more of those.

    Just like the old Grim reapers they had that dropped the scythes at Halloween.

    But I digress.
     
  46. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    I vote they drop blackthorn captains
     
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  47. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Governor Supporter Campaign Patron UWF

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    I don't disagree... the question I am raising is whether or not it's possible to stop them and whether or not this is really worthy of developer resources.

    By that same token, if it was possible to combat these scripters, I would assume something would've been long in motion already.

    Unless changes are made to the IDOC process itself... something that has already changed a few times in the last few years to the chagrin of many... I'm not sure there is going to be a real solution here to deal with the scripters. Any changes made will end up with someone feeling short-changed, and the scripters will just find another work around. Unfortunately, this is a lose-lose situation until a truly viable and constructive solution can be proposed.

    And when approaching that realistically, we have to ask ourselves if it's really worth the developer resources that already appear to be fully allocated to current projects.

    Yes... the one's that consume physical damage and wreck everyone with two-hits!
     
  48. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

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    IMHO if they wanted to then yes they could but sadly could UO afford to lose those paying customers. There is nothing that you can do in UO that if the DEVs wanted to they could not look at, that is why they do backups every 24 hours due to the mass of information that is dealt with on a daily basis.
     
  49. petemage

    petemage Sage

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    Have you ever played some other online games than UO? Cheating is a big issue for all of them. There are teams with tenfold members and way bigger budgets who can't make it work, but then we should expect those 5 people on UO to make it happen? Delusional at best.

    Best they could do is to ban those 1% that are exploiting it to no end. I know it's delusional as well, but there is no technical way to stop it completely.

    Until then, stay safe, don't be afk. That's all ;P
     
    grimiz and Merlin like this.
  50. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Alls any game is a huge data base program that the main program uses to change and store data and if you do not think that data is not searchable then I am sorry. I said if and I bet you any amount of money they already have the programs needed just like any other game out there and they like UO choose not to use it. Mesanna told everybody at a meet what programs they ran so yes she does know and she also knows to close them down means closing down UO and loosing her job. Sorry but IMHO you are the delusional one if you don't think all those game know what you are doing anytime they want to but every time they stop one thing hackers find another way to do it just like why upgrade your anti-virus, simple because there are always new a virus to fight. Not all of us live in a %100 world as you seam to think there is and understand that things are always changing and there will always be someone out there trying to find a way to cheat so the gaming industry picks and chooses it battles all based on MONEY and if it is worth the battle.