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IDOC discussion

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kirthag, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    To be brutally honest, I kinda really LIKE that idea!

    For reasons I won't get into, aye, both my accounts lapsed, but I counted and figured I still had time.
    Then the new rules hit, and *banf* not so much.

    So, those of us who would juggle accounts to keep our houses now have to pay closer attention, or just keep all accounts paid up.

    The issue for me is not the house. On Napa there is so much room I can plant entire villages if money was not a concern. What is the issue is all the stuff I purchased via Origin that is cross sharded and sold at grossly inflated prices with no benefit to the originating shard or player. It causes a lot of disillusionment for a player (vet, dedicated or otherwise). There are personal items as well - collections of journals and books written by friends who left or (sadly) deceased, that first suit of armor ever crafted, a specially dedicated teddy bear from my nephew - stuffs like that. Items a "traveling merchant" might not find interest in and will just toss away without a thought as to the history being lost.

    I'm not against any playstyle, I do an IDOC or two myself sometimes. I just wish there was a better way to preserve what is being lost without harming communities within a shard.

    If co-ownership was not removed.... a lot of these threads might not be popping up. That was the entire purpose of co-ownership after all. Real-Life happens. Sometimes a house will start to decay 5 days before payday. Maybe a spouse overspent on the creditcard and funds needs to be juggled around. It happens to all of us when we start playing it close to expiration dates and deadlines.

    Which leads to some questions the community at large has been asking...

    • When does decay start, exactly? Is it timed on the account going inactive to the hour, or at shard up, or at house refresh?
    • Why does a house with a rented vendor on it go straight to OSI ownership, thus not giving the house owner time to reactivate & reclaim. Conversely, the house without a rented vendor will have the 3 to 5 days of decay then to into the 5-10-15 countdown but that owner has all that time to reclaim.
    • When rented vendors are finally removed, will the house just fall? What about the timers?


    As for my personal situation....
    upload_2015-3-9_17-17-27.png
    Still watching.


    And thank you to ppl making offers of helping me get set back up with a home and such. Its not necessary, but greatly appreciated. :)
     
  2. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I don't know what to tell you about that sign as I already posted that sign is not the usual. In nearly every Idoc I have been to when the house goes to OSI, the decay starts straight away and the sign displays 'Like New' the first period of decay. It then runs through the usual cycle, from the time it is OSI I believe it is supposed to go a full cycle till fall and often does. However I know for a fact that they sometimes do not and can actually fall at ANYTIME.

    Although your sign says Demolition Pending it tells you nothing about when it might fall and as for camping it, it might be there for weeks.

    I wish you luck in reclaiming your house it would certainly be a nasty way to lose it when you have done all you could.
     
  3. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    hmmm...almost the same characteristics as a house from a banned account.
    banned acct house sign.png
     
  4. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Those houses are players trying to be funny, yall shouldn't fall for that
     
  5. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    This would never happen. UO holds us hostage with homes and things. I don't know DAOC's housing system but i assume it is instanced or pre-built with limited storage. I know so many people who barely play anymore, but pay year round just to keep from losing all their things.

    A much better system would be to allow us to pay an upgrade for multiple homes. add 4 or 5 bucks and you can place another home.
     
  6. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    We need more idoc discussions yay!
    I assume that this topic is being discussed by all in an impartial manner?
     
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  7. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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  8. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    Browsing through the DAOC manual, Housing looks more similar to Asheron's Call. This doesn't really work for a game like UO. I couldn't find the size storage of a "vault", but in AC your chest holds 48ish items. And DAOC's manual said you could have 50? deco items.

    Where as in UO it's thousands of items. One of the things that is different about UO is the customizing and decorating, doing things these other housing systems do not allow for. Not that they are bad...I still play AC as well as UO today. I just don't think you can really compare the 2 systems. Imagine telling a UO player they can only place 50 things out for display.
     
  9. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    @Goldberg-Chessy - most definitely impartial. This thread is being very much watched.

    I don't think the DAOC or AC housing would be good replacements for UO housing. There are features of the first two that would work, but definitely not a full system replacement. I've seen housing systems in all kinds of games, and UO is the king. I'd like to keep this thread focused on the IDOC portion of housing...


    Decaying of homes has to do with account status. Once an account goes inactive, then decay is supposed to start. In the "old" way, if a house started to decay, then the co-owners could do something about the stuff in the house. Especially true for guilds and rp-groups with storage houses. The new rule wipes the access list, and that really does concern me.
     
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  10. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    I would very much like to keep a productive thread going on this issue, but I think the key piece of information we need is missing. What is the reasoning behind the changes? If we can't get an honest 2 way convo going we're just banging our heads.

    To me wiping the access list seems like a way to say pay up or you can't save your stuff. If that's their intention, i don't know. I know in the past i have decided to just empty out a place that was on another account, because I wanted to downsize. This new way, they get another months sub from you, and once you've paid maybe you decide to leave it since you paid for it. Rinse and repeat.

    I do know we could come up with better suggestions if we knew exactly why they started messing with housing decay, and what the end goal is.
     
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  11. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    I on occasion will play the 90 day game. So what I am gonna say will effect me as well, but they should put the timer and everything back like it was since time began...and do away with the 90 day grace. Account lapses, timer starts counting. gosh that is simple.
     
  12. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    I believe it was to deter the scripters. Scripters harm not only the game and the person losing stuffs, but the people who honestly are IDOCers as a play style.
     
  13. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah. Just like it stopped resource scripting, right?
     
  14. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Unfortunately I do not think it is possible to change things back to the way they were. I will give you my reasoning -

    On Aug 12th 2014 they put in an emergency fix to stop shard shield duping - side effects were - things on ground started decaying quickly - and players started losing houses , ships etc. I can not remember if it was at the same time or not but there was also a period around then when plant growth stopped, could be related. A patch followed. Another side effect was that the Idoc timing changed. On Aug 24th posts started to appear on UOhall related to this. It was announced that the patch would incorporate another change to idocs and that they would now go through a complete cycle in 5 days. Since then we have had the recent further change to Idocs which is where we are now.

    Looking at these facts the inescapable conclusion is that with the original change they unknowingly changed the timers for other things rather than the chard shields alone, have not got a clue about how to restore Idocs to their original timing or they would probably have done so then. As they perpetually neglect to keep us informed about unintentional changes in case it tarnishes their image, as ever we are totally in the dark. I therefore examine the facts and this is my conclusion.
     
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  15. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    That's what I think too Bobar. They unintentionally messed it all up fixing the duping problem. But that's why I said we need an honest comment from the team to understand if that's what happened or if they really did this to stop scripting, or for some other reason we don't know.

    But long wait times are only going to help a scripter. Changing to private makes it so you can't decide ahead of time if you want to wait 10 plus hours. And not letting friends or co owners claim the things they have access to just seems mean.

    I really don't understand what they are thinking right now. I was an idocer, I am not currently because the wait time is too long.
     
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  16. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    To me, the key info I need is:
    * For all accounts, when did I last pay on the account? For an inactive account, this is not shown anywhere.
    * For co-owners and friends: is the house account active or inactive? If inactive, when did it go inactive? When will the house go into decay (and I lose access to anything I have stored there)?

    As I've said before, ok, I can understand wiping the access lists during the final stage. But wiping it at the first stage gives no notice to co-owners and friends. Even if the house account is then paid, it totally screws up all access on every single item and container.

    The loss of a house, even if it is simply one of multiple someone owns, is perhaps the most frequent reason other than boredom that people quit. With populations continuing to drop, I simply cannot understand why the devs were unwilling to even discuss this change.
     
  17. Lord Taliesin

    Lord Taliesin Seasoned Veteran

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    I've been watching a decaying house recently and it's clear there's a problem. The house went through all of the stages and after a day IDOC it reset to somewhat worn because of vendors. Today it reached IDOC again and after 6 hours (I timed it) the decay status disappeared. It now appears like @Kirthag 's sign in the above picture, Demolition Pending, OSI, Private with no decay status. I've always enjoyed doing IDOCs (not for gold, I don't think I've ever sold loot from a house collapse) I never noticed a problem with scripters and now they've gone and replaced a system that worked fine for over a decade with an inferior system that apparently doesn't even work. I'm not trying to be critical, but my vote (do we get to vote in a Monarchy?) is for changing things back to the way they used to be.
     
  18. Kirthag

    Kirthag Former Stratics Publisher
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    I promised an update....

    I had a visit from Mesanna today and we discussed my housing issue. I cannot get into everything as it is confidential account info, but what I can I will rely. Because I renewed my second account about the same time as the house went OSI, she is giving me the benefit of doubt and tried to turn the house back to me. However, due to a possession timer (the 7-day house transfer thing) we have to wait a few more days.

    This is not an act of favoritism, but customer service. Believe me, if I was any later in reactivating my secondary account, she would have dropped the house right then and there in front of me, and I don't blame her.

    ~~~~~

    There are many, many houses with OSI ownership right now and I'm sure Mesanna and her team are busy watching every one. With all the situations pertaining to accounts, Broadsword has to look at each and every single one individually. If the account Owner doesn't get with Broadsword, then of course the house will fall. The best way for account owners to get in touch with Broadsword is to email their Customer Service, or use the Bug Report feature in game. I got responses both ways.

    Of course, you can also email Mesanna directly - but if you are not the actual account holder, I personally doubt she will reply to you about a particular house.

    So, my personal advise to players who have been cycling their accounts, you have to make a decision. I don't know what will happen to other houses, all I know is Mesanna and her team are doing their darnedest to be fair to the customer as well as their business practices. If you cycle and miss, you could well be on the short end of the stick.
     
  19. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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  20. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I have given my opinion on why they haven't/can't return idocs to how they used to be in an earlier post in this thread. What I find interesting is your information regarding OSI houses. Based on that is seems that their recent changes to the Idoc system have not only introduced three supposed fall times that do not work but have simultaneously stopped OSI houses falling as they should too. The sign changing to Demolition Pending with no decay rate showing is definitely NOT how we were told to expect them to work. I personally have not been to a recent Idoc that has gone to OSI but have done previously to this last change so I can be thankful for that. It is bad enough wasting hours unnecessarily at times that do not work but to totally waste 15 hours twice in a row on the same house beggars belief and says little for any kind of Customer Service. Yet still there has been no acknowledgement that any problem even exists let alone any indication that the situation will be rectified. Darn good job we are just paying customers and not Shareholders.

    HEADS.jpg
     
  21. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Like we said eh Vic ? This is my shocked face that this house was "fixed" . :-/