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If they gave reds access to Trammel

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Draxous, Aug 9, 2008.

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  1. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    it would be cool if they gave reds access to Trammel.


    It would also be cool if everyone had to pick a faction their character belonged to and the only way you could be Minax or SL is if you were red and only way you could be CoM or TB was if you were blue.


    This would be great for opening battle grounds.

    If TB or CoM owned all the towns then powerscrolls could be got from Ilshenar, with Tram facet rules.

    If Minax or SL owned all the towns then powerscrolls could be got from Ilshenar, with Felucca facet rules.

    If neither owned, then Ilsh is as it is.

    Bulletin boards and/or town criers could announce whats what when asked.

    If you don't want to PvP, then you don't have to! The tram facet allows you to interact with people in factions no matter what. And you're part of a story line.

    If people feel strongly about not having it Ilshenar, then I think it would be a great idea for an expansion. Where we have more/new places to PvP.


    [/discuss
     
  2. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    The only way they will ever let reds into Trammel is if they make ALL PvP consentual only.
     
  3. Emil Ispep

    Emil Ispep Sage
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    Crafters, sigil gankers...

    I dont think so.. Ils and Fel are seperate facets.. If you control all the cities on Fel, how does that give you an advantage in Ils? How about the ability to drop a champ/harrower in a closed environment in Fel if you control all the cities?
     
  4. monnie101

    monnie101 Guest

    They should allow them in flagged as reds so people can club the evil out of them. They can't attack first, that's all. If they get attacked first they can defend.
     
  5. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    My idea for allowing reds to Trammel would be:

    Reds should be able to go to Trammel zone but they should not be safe there and they should not be able to kill innocent there.

    Making them attackable in Trammel zone will stop them from hiding there but we would still have a problem with the noto PK's (like BlacK RaiN :lick:) who want to kill the reds without risk.

    To make blue in Trammel zone think two times before attacking a lonely red I would add some risk to them too.

    A blue attacking/looting a red in Trammel zone will become orange to all reds for an hour. Healing/buffing a blue fighting a red would make you orange to all reds for an hour too.

    Anyone true blue would not be effected of this, they would still be 100% safe in Trammel zone.
     
  6. Except for seeing all the foulmouthed jackasses running around in Trammel instead of them staying in Fel with their reds (or blues for that matter, but they mostly stay in Fel with either). Yes, it does happen in Trammel occasionally, but it's not par for the course like it is in Fel. I have kids that do look at my computer screen from time to time and I'd rather not have them see the normal everyday smack talk that resides in Fel.
     
  7. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    That's BS and you know it. Being a foulmouthed jackasses has nothing to do with colors or Tram/Fel, it have to do with kids in UO.
     
  8. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I dont agree. I do most to all my hunting in fel due to the mouthy jerks in tram that know they are safe behind the tram ruleset. I find that at least on the pacific shard that most of the pvpers there show respect for the most part. Sure we have a few bad apples but not nearly as many as what I have seen in the blue gate side of things.
     
  9. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    The way this thread is progressing does not inspire me with confidence in peaceful coexistence.

    (what is the difference between a red and a burns-off-each-count-pseudo-blue?)
     
  10. And more of them are found in Fel than are found in Tram. Maybe it's because they're spread out more in Tram, or maybe it's just a characteristic of the type of player that enjoys PvP and not PvM. Either way, having spent times on both sides of the fence, Fel wins in the badmouthing competition. Smack talk is part of PvP.
     
  11. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    The "burns-off-each-count-pseudo-blue" don't want to take the risk from being red or he can't handle being red or he don't want to be trapped on one facet. This one will also kill anything that won't give him a count.

    The red know the risk and can handle it. He may very well play his red full time if he was allowed to go to trammel.
     
  12. mmmbeer

    mmmbeer Guest

    pfffft....

    move all reds to seige so your not an annoyance anymore....
     
  13. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    And you are sure it's the reds who do all the badmouthing? Have you ever been red and heard the smack talk from some blues?

    If a red go to Trammel with my rules, badmouthing would not be very smart as he can be ganked easy, there is alot more blues in Trammel than reds.

    The badmouthing will mostly come from blue who don't have the balls to attack a lonely red so they will smack talk him instead well known he can't hurt them.
     
  14. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Where is seige? Did you mean Siege? We would love to have them :p
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    It's downright creepy to me how often Fellies say they hate Trammel, and then say they want to go there.

    If they gave reds access to Trammel, there would be no point to not being red except to say, "look, I'm UO's last remaining blue."

    -Galen's player
     
  16. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I thought REAL Reds didn't want to go to Trammel anyway.
     
  17. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Well, all the red has to do is switch to their blue to spend time in Tram. And given that shops and high end items are mostly available in Tram, I can guarantee that most of Fel's players do spend a portion of time in Tram, some more Tram than Fel. The only difference is that they probably realise how quick folks are to page on anything like a swear word in Tram and amend their behaviour.

    Though I can't think why any true Fel player would want to travel to Tram on a red, and I certainly wouldn't support it as it would only empty Fel even more. Which we don't need. And there are few real penalties for reds these days, so I'm not sure they need yet another perk. If you consider Tram a perk mind you. I can hear the old school reds turning in their collective graves just at the thought ;)

    Wenchy
     
  18. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Would be happy if you only could go to Trammel but not any of the other 4 facets?

    That depent of the rules for reds in Trammel. I doubt many blues would choose to go red if they knew they could be attacked everywhere.

    On the other hand, BlacK RaiN's idea about forcing everyone in Faction would make alot quit.
     
  19. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Thanks, your stupid stereotypes make perfect sense.
     
  20. It's not a stereotype. It was an observation based on my own time spent there. I saw more foulmouth BS in the month I spent actively trying to learn how to PvP than I have in Tram in the entire 3+ years I've actively played my account.
     
  21. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    If alot of the reds was traveling the other facets to pick a fight from someone who choose to fight them, Felucca could be a better place to live and hunt/gathering.

    It's hard to say how it would turn out.
     
  22. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

    Generally, reds currently on a red are on the red to PvP.

    You can only PvP in Felucca and Ilsh (depending on factions in my proposal) therefore anyone looking for PvP would only be able to find it in those locations anyway.


    Red or blue matters nill to none with no-statloss... and quite frankly, this is kind of why I think it would be cool to let them in Tram. They can't PvP, so rather they be on their blue alts... they can be on their main characters.


    I think we can get over punishing people for picking a PvP playstyle. I think that it's long over due since you know, PvP is consensual.

    Expanding on PvP would be an extremely good thing.
     
  23. I did say blues also.
     
  24. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Great. So because you feel this way about a playerbase that makes it true.


    grow up.
     
  25. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I think I have to agree with an earlier post that the only way you'll see Red characters allowed in Trammel based facets is if they completely remove non-con PvP and limit PvP to guild wars and Factions.

    Otherwise, I suggest Siege.
     
  26. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    That's total BS. Non-con PvP has been all but eliminated.

    How are you not consenting the second you choose to go to Felucca?


    What would be different? Reds right now can only PvP in Felucca. If they had access to Trammel, but could still only PvP in Felucca... nothing is changed.

    Punishing people for something that is now consensual is wrong. You can pick your sides.

    Oh... maybe because some of you are jealous that you wouldn't be able to kill anyone and be forced to not look cool enough as a blue?

    I don't get it.
     
  27. This I can agree with. I don't agree with allowing PvP in Ilsh, but I also don't have any problem with a player being able to bring his/her main to the blue side of the gate to engage in PvM. The whole red/blue system is outdated anyway.
     
  28. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    After over 10.5 years of playing UO, I really don't care if someone thinks the color that the name of my character appears is "cool" or not.

    You have 4+ other characters to go to non-Fel facets, or you can go to Siege where it doesn't matter.

    The rest of the game is fine.
     
  29. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Why can't they play on the character they want to play on?

    Because you have a problem with another person enjoying this game?


    No tks
     
  30. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    So you are making Felucca and Ilshenar to PvP zones andd the rest to non PvP zones.
    You would not need the red coloe because Factions enemies would be orange to each others.

    Did you play to much WOW? This would not be UO, the good and evil would be gone and left would be factions ganking.
    You are total removing a playstyle from UO [/QUOTE]
     
  31. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    1 person doesn't make you red.

    Being red has conseuqences. Be glad they've already removed all of the rest of them.
     
  32. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    Wow. Do you hear yourself talking?

    You can interchange some of those words in the quote above and find real world implications about the worst things about prejudices.
     
  33. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    This has nothing to do with Siege. If it did, there would need to be tweaking.

    This is about every other shard and this is in part because of the direction this game has gone. Felucca and Felucca's lost lands are the only place reds can be and we need to stop punishing those types of players for no reason.

    I didn't agree with your silly and unrealistic idea of changing combat and didn't appreciate you hijacking my thread. I haven't played WoW in 4 years and this has nothing to do with that game.


    Sorry Freja, but stick to what you know.
     
  34. Mordocuo

    Mordocuo Guest

    I have to be honest here your little avatar under your name really supports Connor's point about jerks in Felucca. Since you proclaim to be one the action your avatar does is insulting to me.

    So thank you for being a prime example of the foul mouth-ill mannered stereotype of Fel.

    You di it very well
     
  35. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Why does it have to have consequences? That's ridiculous. People who PvP in Ultima Online, only PvP because they've wanted to... and then you sit there and tell me that they should be punished?

    No... just no.
     
  36. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    You think I'm a jerk because you don't like my avatar?

    ...

    There is nothing wrong with my avatar and if it is things like that-that you base your judgments of other people on... get real.
     
  37. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    For someone who has played for 10.5 years, your logic makes no sense.

    The game has changed so much in that time that saying "you chose your playstyle" just makes no sense.

    If reds were allowed in Tram and had to follow the current ruleset, nothing would be different, other than some characters in Tram would be red as opposed to blue.

    With your logic, us from Fel could say that no blues are alowed in Fel because you "chose your playstyle". Yet you are allowed here.

    If there was no Tram, then I agree that Reds need to be kept in check, but there is, so your stance just has no merrit.
     
  38. With your logic there would never be any more reds since no blues could go to Fel to BECOME red.

    :dunce:
     
  39. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Don't bother....These arguments are very rarely about logic.

    My ignore list is getting pretty full today!!

    -Galen's player
     
  40. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    I'll Kill you all......................hehe

    imhop, What I would do is allow faction fighting anywhere in the game world. Allow access to the entire game world, no matter what color you are. Keep the same rule sets in place regarding negative/positive actions. This way a Red could not attack a non faction blue, and only a NPC red healer, or another player in the same faction could perform any benificial act, red or blue.

    This brings us to, "So, what do I have to gain by this"? If you have good vs evil, there needs to be more than just getting faction points to want to hunt each other. I have no idea what would work. I, however do know this, If you allow shadowlords to fight britania wussies, hehe, in Tramel, it would allow neutral players to see factions in action first hand, without worring about getting killed. They would also get to see the benifits of Factions, and they would grow.......imhop that is.
     
  41. Kariny

    Kariny UO Lake Superior News Reporter
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    :eek:snap:

    Yeah, actually at first I was thinking what red wants to go to Tram? Then this occurred to me!

    Sure, c'mon over reds. Open Tram to the reds for a day or so! While all the reds are dumb enough to think that us Trammies are locking and barring our doors and staying inside we'll actually be busy.

    Gee, Fel emptier than usual? All the dumb reds in Tram trying to Trammy hunt. Now where would the smart Trammys be at instead of cowering in their houses?

    *Looks at Fels rich resources and spawn*:drool:
     
  42. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Touche :thumbsup:

    Not if once you enter Fel your character is Red.

    So you could be blue in Tram, but when you went to Fel your characters color changes to Red.
     
  43. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I've done PvP in Tram, it's not an experience I'd want to repeat lol. I loathed it even in RP battles, and found it annoying if I got too used to the Tram pushthrough system then went to Fel. Death by Tram carryover lol. I'm not sure how many PvPers would enjoy it once they got it. I won't apologise for wanting players to try staying in Fel, either. I think we need more activity there, not any bleeding into Tram.

    I don't want anyone punished for PvPing, just a more logical system where there's a point to being on one side over the other. I have a lot of respect for reds, especially those who used to risk stat loss and defended well against blues. I always felt that red meant you needed to be that much stronger than the blues. Or accept greater risks if you died. But the whole red/blue and karma system is messed up and has been for years. I do realise that, but I always thought some reds liked the edge of that extra risk they took, if that makes sense :)

    Wenchy
     
  44. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I feel its fair like what was said let reds go to tram let them be attackable and able to defend themselves should they get attacked. But not allow them to attack anybody unless attacked first.
     
  45. Nope. If you want to PvP, PvP in Fel. Tram is PvM only and should stay that way. I don't care if reds come to Tram or not, but PvP should stay exactly where it is now.
     
  46. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Not quite... you can still PvP in Tram based facets, but only through certain channels (such as guild wars).

    I could understand Faction PvP being active in Tram due to this.

    However, any character regardless of color going to Tram should fall under the same rules, no weird "end run" around the rules such as "cannot attack, but can be attacked" need to be applied (besides... given the track record for new ruleset ideas and bugs in UO, do you REALLY expect it to work properly?).

    Still, I don't see them allowing reds into Tram unless they decide to remove non-con PvP entirely and force all PvP into systems such as guild wars and Factions.

    As stated before... be glad the old punishments have been removed (stat loss, etc).

    Again, there is always Siege.
     
  47. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    I know you don't really see reds being kept in Fel/T2AFel as a "punishment."
    It is a control. Take that last control away and there is no longer any point to having murder counts.

    Besides, as you say it is a playstyle.
    By the same token that you state anyone entering Felucca has Consented to PvP, anyone who earns and keeps 5+ counts has Consented to the last remaining restricton on being a murderer.

    There is no way the dev team is going to invest the time to completely redesign the PvP systems on all facets to allow access by characters whos players have demonstrated they chose a playstyle that in no way depends on that access.

    PvM depends on new lands and monsters to provide constantly greater challenges.
    PvP depends only on the skill (and unfortunately, gear) of your opponents for that challenge. Where it happens is unimportant other than a few factors for hiding/line of sight etc.

    You have 5 character slots at the minimum.
    Saying you should be able to go anywhere on any of them is really no different than someone saying non-combat characters should be able to participate in champ spawns to get scrolls.
    After all, they should be able to do whatever they want on any character right? ;)
     
  48. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
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    Wow, a whole MONTH?

    I split my time between Fel and Tram,(mainly fel) and believe me, after about 9 yrs I have found the biggest jackasses and smack talkers in Tram, hands down.

    It's gotten so I would rather be in Fel. I find more of a sense of community there than the whole of Tram.
     
  49. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    There is no point to having murder counts now. The only point would be, if I'm blue I can only attack reds/greys/oranges in Felucca to stay that way. If I'm red, I can attack anyone I feel like.

    This wouldn't change one bit if reds were allowed into Trammel. The same rules would apply. If you wanted to be a blue, you would have to not attack/kill blues in Felucca.

    I'm finding myself confused by the assertions a lot of you are making about this. This really doesn't change a single thing, no matter how you spin it.

    I think the Dev team would be more apt to take the game in this direction. They are Mythic after all and they have been talking about working on a unified PvP system for years now...

    I think this is a step in that direction.
     
  50. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
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    Awww, c'mon Galen.....you know you love Fel...

    And I've particularly enjoyed the few times I've run across you in despise and gave you a dirtnap!
     
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