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If you're in an area in trammel killing monsters and someone else shows up

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kojak, Aug 6, 2014.

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  1. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    and they start killing "your" monsters, is that considered game harassment - someone in my vent says that it is and I say that it isn't so I need a public opinion ruling to settle this argument

    I know it's a violation of game "etiquette" - obviously - but is it actually against the terms of service or bannable - I doubt it
     
  2. Neireid

    Neireid Visitor

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    I believe that it is based on Rules of conduct - #1: You may not victimize, harass, threaten, or cause another player unwanted distress or discomfort, as determined by Support Staff. So if you are in an area killing, lets say one monster, and someone comes in and keeps killing that one monster each time it re spawn, to me it is. No difference if you are in Blackthorn dungeon killing mages, and an archer comes in and kills all mages as soon as the spawn -to me it's deemed as harassing someone into leaving.
     
  3. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Crazed Zealot

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    By the time someone responded to your help request the person would be logged off, slept all night, and probably left for work. I suppose technically at some point it would become harassment if they kept attacking the monster you attacked for a half hour or so, but getting someone to respond to it timely I have my doubts about. I doubt this would be a high priority. You gotta do something really wacked to get banned these days. I don't see anyone getting in much trouble if anyone did happen to respond and actually see it.
     
  4. Neireid

    Neireid Visitor

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    Of course its not, but on some shards, anything goes to page GM's. Getting back to the topic, its annoying when you are killing a monster or a group of monsters and toons come in and take over. That is bull and its not right, but its harassing in its basic form.
     
    #3 Neireid, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  5. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    No it is not they have the right to be there just as much as you do. It is rude though to start hitting what your killing. Being a game I let it slide just ignore them, and just keep hitting the monsters right along with them.I treat people just the way they like to be treated you help me kill my spawn I help you kill your spawn. Then they throw a hissy fit because its their turn you attack theirs, but when your turn comes up they attack yours. I don't have time to sit and type to others while attacking monsters so I don't.
     
  6. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    If someone is training a skill then I would leave them be. If someone has lured away bothersome critters to harvest leather from the remaining spawn I would leave them be. If the character there has shown themselves to be a good and unrude member on chat in the past. Then I would ask a good time I can return when they leave.

    Then there is all those situations where we play the Riddick game. "Who is the better killer?"
     
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  7. Veldrane

    Veldrane Journeyman
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    It may be rude but it certainly isn't harassment, no single player "owns" a spawn point while they are there. Now if they are following you around to everywhere you go killing the monsters you're trying to kill then that would be harassment.
     
  8. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    That cant be right. Supposing I turn up and you don't leave? What if that causes me 'unwanted distress or discomfort' that you dont leave and allow me to have the spawn when I turn up? No ... it isnt a breach of rules ... merely a breach of etiquette and politeness.
     
  9. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    No it is not harrassment lol. its an abuse of the paging system to report a player for something like that. no one "owns" a spawn.
     
  10. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
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    I thought we were always told its up to us to remove ourself from an annoying situation. I fully agree that no spawn belongs to anyone so much as it belongs to Everyone. So you can't really say they killing your spawn because you don't own any spawn. I rent time in uo like anyone else if someone shows up where I'm killin stuff many times they will be cool if im cool and if not I can always choose to leave or compete with them for the kills. IMO I don't see it as harassment in that situation so much as bad manners,rudeness, being a jerk-whatever u wanna call it ;)
     
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  11. Neireid

    Neireid Visitor

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    I agree no one owns a spawn or area BUT, if you are killing the monster(s) and someone comes in, after the fact, you think that is right? you now cannot kill anything because they are killing it first, so what's the solution? the person that was there first leaves? allowing another player to take over? that is pushing/bullying its highest form - hence harassment. You cannot kill what you intended to kill, thus the person leaves? get out...I don't buy it. So the person who started on their little adventure is forced to leave because now they cannot enjoy the game as it was intended. Bullies win!!!! Perhaps the punishment of banning doesn't fit the crime; certainly removing them for a period of time may let think before doing so again.
     
  12. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    It better not be. This is MMORPG. Not a single player game.
    With split looting rights there is no real difference with two people killing a monster 2x as fast or one person solo'ing. Its either 1/2 the loot 2x as fast or 1x the loot at 1x speed.

    What is bannable is the people who think they own the game cursing at you if you come to work the same spot.

    Overall though this is part of the downside of the grind of UO where the same monster just spawns over and over in the same place. You want to kill miasma for chests? Only one place to go in game and camp out.
     
  13. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    The looting rights are split two ways you each get a cut. There is nothing wrong here. Perhaps you would be better served playing a single player game on your iphone.
     
  14. Neireid

    Neireid Visitor

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    Theo, don't get personal and attack my point of view. I enjoy playing the game with many many players, but killing an easy kill where there is only one, doesn't mean the player is antisocial...get real dude. Like you mentioned Miasma, if you are killing it, and someone comes in , you would be ok with it and leave? yeah right. So I think its rude and its bullying to come in an area and stand there and take all the kills. More so when you kill something in one shot...

    We all have our own opinion and interpretation, I classify in the category of harassment.
     
  15. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i wanted an icecream cone real bad. so i went to the icecream shop and ate one. it was so good i wanted another one. but someone had just bought all the rest : ( so i reported him for harrassment to the police.
     
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  16. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Go an hunt in Fel where you CAN deal with griefers.
     
  17. Veldrane

    Veldrane Journeyman
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    Then the counter point of that view would also be valid. You're in the area fighting the spawn and I show up and am unable to play where I want because you're forcing me out - that would be harassment too since you're bullying me and not letting me play. I'm using you and I here in general terms for example and not speaking specifically about you, of course. This is an open world MMO and sharing spawn is part of the deal.

    Again, if a player is following you around and killing everything wherever you go, then that would be bullying and harassment, but two players who's paths cross hunting in the same area... no, that's just an MMO.
     
    #16 Veldrane, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
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  18. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Does this thread stem from the guys down in Trammel despise on Atlantic? Are they still being ***** or has anything been done about them?
     
  19. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Miasma. Swoop and Red Death are great axample of dropping the ball. Great spawn that should of been done again in a dead area with 3-5 spawning. Where a group that gets along can work their fav hunt. How many years did taking turns at swoop go on? And Swoop is not a good hunt for neg karma characters. There are so many aspects that work in the game that coulda shoulda been enhanced and expanded on. Instead they force out new content that makes us think WTF, I need a refund.

    How many players that do nothing but BoDs seen nothing enriching the task been done in nearly a decade.

    On the OP question. There are things that go on in the game that makes you really sure you'd never want to meet some players in real life. Players gettting petty kicks in a fake world means you realize the best part of them ran down their daddy's leg. Just laugh it off and go do what you planned to do another day.
     
    #18 Warpig Inc, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
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  20. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Oh No.jpg

    So this one has been resurrected again! Well sure enough the answer has already been given. Everybody pays to play everybody has equal rights to kill any spawn. Nobody 'owns' a spawn because they were there when it spawned. As has also been said it demonstrates poor game etiquette and most recognise this and do not do it but as we also all know there is always one!!!!! (or sometimes more)
     
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  21. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    No, they're not 'your' monsters.
    If I arrive and someone is already working the spawn, I usually go find somewhere else. Many people will share the spawn, if it's a small or single spawn location, taking turns.
    It becomes harrasment if, with an obvious choice of targets, the newcomer persistently and regularly attacks only that mob that you have already engaged despite being asked not to do so. (some newbies attack what you're attacking because they can't fight it alone, and if you've agreed to that, that's fine).
    When I was training my warrior's skills many years ago I had a bard follow me all the way around despise level 2. Every time I engaged a mob he provo'd it onto something so I could get no gains. I moved on. He followed. That was harrassement.
     
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  22. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Oh Oh. They join in on the fighting and leach off spawn kicking there butt with the ever famous invis self..
     
  23. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    It sounds like you must be new here. This has been brought up in years past. You may *think* its anti social but this is a multiplayer game. Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you don't like having to compete for spawn or share the game - go play a single player game. It wasn't an attack - it was a statement and an observation.

    This game is so deserted its amazing how people freak out when 'OMG - the horror! ANother player!'. It used to be 35 ppl killing posses in Doom with non-instanced looting and people running loot scripts for 3/1 jewels. You want to talk grief - that was grief.

    Instanced kills and a nearly deserted game. Expect to share the spawn. Most times you won't have too. It is NOT harassment. It is NOT griefing.
     
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  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Miasma spawns so fast that you may soon be quite happy to take turns at the spawn in order to have more time to thoroughly examine the loot on the one you've killed.
     
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  25. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Absolutely not. Monsters are for everyone.
     
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  26. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Well if u are on a average/lower populated shard im gussing just be gratefull u saw another player....why not then ask if the other player wants to join force for harder foe
     
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  27. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Wow, this again? Where do people get the sense of entitlement to think they actually "own" a spawn? If you really want to own a spawn, go to fel, there you can deal with anyone who comes by personally.

    Plus, people seem to be forgetting that before paging on harassment, one must try and leave the area to remove themselves from the situation.
     
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  28. Darius Bloodbain

    Darius Bloodbain Adventurer
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    This is me personally and only me.
    I am usually quite glad when someone shows up where I am hunting.
    I am at the point in my life where I say its no big deal if they want to hit the monster,
    or share the spawn, or take it over if that's how they wanna roll.
    I usually try to strike up a friendly conversation when they arrive.
    If I get the vibe that they want the spawn for themselves, then i recall out and go do
    another one or do something else all together. No one person owns a spawn,
    So, I do not consider it harassment. I can handle things like that in my own way without
    any hard feelings toward anyone.
    If I am the one that recalls in and find them there, I will say hello, or how is it going.
    Most times they will converse with me, other times if they ignore me, I just go somewhere
    else.
    Now, that being said: If they are intentionally following you around cussing you and are dragging
    half a dungeon spawn down on top of you every time they see you, then I would call
    that a harassing act.
     
  29. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    it is rather lame to consider they are stealing your ''spawn''....work together...go for harder foes- better rewards...

    like i say UO 2014...ITS NICE to see other people hunting....simple...talk..agree or move on
     
  30. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Hello Kojak,
    To answer your question in a nut shell.
    No it is not something that you can or should call a GM on or even page for one. Fact is Petra is correct. Under the rules of the game any and all may ingage a monster. Looting rights is all that comes into play and with the kill its is on a dammage system so you may do the most so get the lions share while the up and comming "help" gets a lesser bit of the kill.
    No spawn, monster, or dungeon is the property of any player in the game and there fore OPEN for all to kill at random.
    Now we elders of the game run on a honor system and if one is there we excuse our selves if the area is ocupied.
    This is our choice not the games rule.
    Hope that helps you out sugar..
     
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  31. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    Those damn raiders/reds were harassing me at a champ......how dare they!!! * tongue firmly planted in cheek*
    Spawn/ monsters/ other player characters it is all the same, and it is just a game. No one owns the game....we all just rent a little piece of it.
     
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  32. jopromol

    jopromol Lore Master
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    This thread cracks me up. Not to beat the clearly decaying, rotting bones that were once the "horse" I just wanted to recall a memory from my UO past. When I began playing this game in 1999 there wasn't a single "spawn" you could find that didn't have at least one other player already there (Deceit's Lich Room, T2A Undead City, The Bone Knight Wall (to train) in Deceit- these were some of my favorites). People took turns killing the next lich or worked together to train on the next bone knight- it was a community.... My point is to those of you who believe being at a spawn before another player (let alone, being in the same dungeon!) means that somehow you "own" that spawn and that player has decided to show up to "grief" you and is "harassing" you..... how do I put this..... stop being selfish and self-centered. You're not that important. You need to get away from the computer, look outside your window and realize that you did not create nor do you own everything out there. The same applies to the spawn you mistakenly believe belongs to you somehow. *breathes*
     
  33. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Best thing to do is write down the char name, and everytime you see or even hear of him hunting somewhere, go join in!!! Because after all, he doesn't own the spawn, right? Karma, it feels good :D
     
  34. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    There's a big difference in showing up and sharing a spawn, and showing up and stealing the kills you are in the middle of. Also, how many times have ya seen someone run in on a hunt, run all around the place a few times stirring up all the mobs, laugh and leave?
     
  35. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    "YOUR MONSTERS" :loser: LMAO if oyu are ANYWHERE killing something and I come along and decide to kill them also well that is just to $&#**^% bad get over it. There is no such thing as :gun:"YOUR MONSTERS":sad3:.

    So there is your answer - of course it is not actionable since there is NO SUCH THING AS "YOUR MONSTERS":yell:

    LMAO :mylittlepony:
     
  36. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    A very close variant on this post is made every few months.

    -Galen's player
     
  37. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    While it is RUDE it's not harassment. What is harassment would be if you were in killing mages in Blackthorns and someone came in and started killing them all soon as they spawned and you shrug and move on to the Liches..... but they follow you and start killing all the liches, so you shrug and go try to farm stuff in the hellhounds but they follow you there too and start killing everything you try to hunt and so you gate yourself to another dungeon and they show up there too and start to farm what you are... THAT is harassment.

    If you are farming the mages and they lead the Balron down and invis next to you and you die..... get rezed go back kill the balron and mages and then they do it again..... THAT is harassment. If they run by with the balron in tow and die next to you .... you rez them they go back get their corpse and they go back to farming the balron but then run down die again near you dragging the balron.... this is just someone with no skill trying to bite off more than they can chew. Not harassment.
     
  38. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    lol... yeah, no it doesn't. You already said in your first line that no-one "owns" the spawn and no single person is entitled to it. It would be up to the other player to leave the area and find a different spawn if they didn't like it. If they did so and the other person started following them around the map repeatedly, only then you may have a case for harassment.
     
  39. Yadd of Legends

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    I agree nobody owns a spawn, but it would be irritating if I had spent a lot of time killing off all the lower-level monsters and suddenly somebody else showed up to jump on the boss and cut my chances in half at the last minute (irritating but not harassment). But interestingly enough, this has never happened to me personally, either on Legends or Atlantic. Several times recently I've killed off everything in an abyss spawn and just started fighting the boss and somebody else suddenly showed up. But in all cases, the other player saw what was happening and backed off. In one case, I was just killing off the last of the spawn and the renowned devourer spawned on the other side of the screen, and when I got there, somebody else had showed up and was killing it. They apologized and dropped the rewards at my feet (I wonder if they would have done that if it had been the tinker legs, lol). So just be cool - win some, lose some - but I've seen more positive than negative.
     
  40. kronides

    kronides Lore Keeper
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    It's just whoever gets there firstest with the mostest. There's no conceivable way it's harassment that somebody kills a monster out from under you.

    I'd never deliberately that to other people, but harassment? No.
     
  41. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    i dont think luring in trammel is a crime anymore, either, but I forget.

    what I dont like is how they randomized top damager. they totally screwed over the system. it feels like you could do 90% of the damage and then if someone does enough in the final 10% they get a split. I think if one player does 80% or greater damage on a target there should be no split.
     
  42. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    lol...
    Anyone can kill anything they want. It's not harassment, although on Catskills shard I could see how it might be considered such.
    There's nothing keeping you or anyone else from attacking the monsters together. There's no reason to get all upset because someone else showed up. Chat with them. Make friends. There's no purpose in being an ass other than just to be an ass. If you do not enjoy that person's company go find something else to do. That person has every right to kill that monster as you do. If you cannot handle that fact that is your problem, not the other person's.
     
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  43. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Wait, so it might actually take some effort and not just be sit in one place and much cheetos while pressing a macro? Oh the horror.

    Its amazing how many people want this game to just be a repetitive grind.

    I think they should get rid of all autospawning and dungeons regenerate all at once. No more spawn until you clear every monster up to the final boss. Then 5 min later it respawns. When it spawns its gets a random assortment of monsters.

    I absolutely hate that 'hunting' is never actually 'hunting'. Its like shooting fish in a barrel. You know exactly where the fish are going to be and you stand over them and kill them over and over. Does anyone actually find 'hunting' any fun? Peerless and Spawns are the only hunting I find modestly interesting. The rest is a pure and utter horrible grind.
     
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  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Man, I always think back to the time when you could sort of "clear out" a dungeon because the spawn times were slow. I really miss that actually. I wish they would build something like that into a dungeon. Hythloth would be good for it since it has so many floors. Like you would actually have to clear out the floor you are on before going down to the next, and the difficulty increases. Like a big champ spawn sort of.

    I wish every dungeon had a gimmick or direction like that. I really can't stand just bashing the same monsters over and over again for long either.
     
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  45. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Some places the spawn is so slow it's not worth doing. Just 2 people can pretty much wipe out and control the spawn in Destard tram. Rather boring infact if there are 3 people working on killing dragons. I hate sitting and waiting for something to spawn. It's gotten to the point where most places are soloable and a guild can't really do much as a group. Few champs that's about it... Many peerless and such are solo'd now... and going as a team or group means half the folk just stand about waiting... Not fun at all. Corgul is fun for about 5 to 8 people... Scalis would be fun.... but 9x out of 10 no one gets a drop so getting anyone to care about doing one is next to impossible. It's the same with the old leviathans..... we used to hunt them as a guild but folk got irritated with dying for nothing over and over and then after awhile when you'd suggest doing them... no one would want to. Even using my GM (now 120 fisher).... didn't really help it. Still doesn't. Rather wish there were more things you can do as a group.

    Blackthorns is a good thing. It takes a group as a rule to do the invasion spawn... which is great because it gives a group something challenging to do. I remember when it was a challenge to go into Destard and kill a dragon.
     
  46. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    Not sure how easy it would be to do, but what would be better is a re-spawn rate based on the number of people in the dungeon area. The more people, the faster it re-spawns. Timed correctly, it would keep you from getting overwhelmed, and yet spawn fast enough to keep you from getting bored.
     
  47. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    This sort of mechanic already exists in game in the doom guardians room. The more people in the room -the more guardians spawn.

    We also have some of these ideas with the spawn in Cove for the Void Pool. However, the rewards there are so uninteresting that its no longer done on most shards. Good idea. Bad implementation.
     
  48. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    its always my spawn.... anyone else entering the room is a guest.
     
  49. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    Very true. Many MMOs actually seem to punish you for working together or in a group, which seems rather counter-intuitive to the genre. UO is one of the worst.

    I actually like Guild Wars 2's loot mechanics:
    It's amazing how a subtle change like this to the fundamental mechanic of loot creates an entirely different perspective of the playerbase to grouping up or fighting together. You no longer have situations where people have the mentality of getting annoyed over others attacking "their spawn." In fact it's usually quite the opposite: you're actually pleased others show up and attack what you're attacking to kill it quicker with both of you getting a chance at the same rewards/drops for doing so. It's a system that breeds co-operation naturally rather than competition and in general the community is more pleasant for it.

    Modernizing the UO loot system in this manner would make soloing rather undesirable and bring a purpose to guild hunts and co-operative play, rather than being penalized for grouping which is essentially what happens now.
     
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  50. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    As far as I know it was never "decriminalized," but how often it's enforced is another matter. Some days, GMs seem to be an endangered species, at the least.
     
  51. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Yes... that's exactly what we need. More stuff like that. It should gauge how many people are in the area working the spawn and respawn accordingly. If one person is there the spawn rate stays the same... 2 people it increases slightly... 3 it increases more... etc...

    And yes something to that nature is already in the doom guardians room so we KNOW it can be done.
     
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