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I'm so confused about DI

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by thamantii, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. thamantii

    thamantii Guest

    I understand there is a 300% cap but i'm unsure as to what helps me reach this cap.

    How much DI can i get from weapons?

    Armor?

    Skills? (and which skills give how much DI?)

    Basically im asking how in the world do i reach 300%

    I don't want to add 100% DI from items if it will only let me use 50% DI from them...i'm so unsure as to how to cap this. Any help would be appreciated greatly.
     
  2. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    Well DI from weapons is capped at 50%. You can have up to 100 DI dumped in items (which you knew already). So stormgrips, a brace or ring or something, walla...you are at 100%. Pretty simple.

    Enemy of One is basically double your damage so it is a buff that will give you 100% DI.

    As far as skills go, the skills aren't part of the internal cap. This was clarified in a Five on Friday a few years ago...2007 I believe actually. Your strength, tactics, anatomy and even obscure skills like lumberjacking won't add to the 300% DI cap.

    Additionally I am not certain since I don't remember right off, but I believe the Primer talisman counts as a separate check and not included in the item cap. It is a talisman after all.
     
  3. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    I forgot to mention that with the DI on weapons, you can occasionally find ones with higher damage, say around 55 or so...but those come at a cost. Usually the other stats on the weapon suffer because you have one or two intensities that are very high.

    The typical rule of thumb is 50%.
     
  4. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Spells like enemy of one and perfection do increase the cap to the 300%cap,

    So basically if you have 100%di from items enemy of one and acheive perfection your at 300%.
     
  5. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Uhm ..... enemy of one 'only' adds 50% DI from what I know. Not yet mentioned are slayer attributes on weapons/talisman. A slayer simply adds another 100% (but only vs specific monsters).
    As for DI on weapons: A 'good' crafter gets 40% DI on exceptional weapons. Those can get up to 55% on runic crafted exceptional weapons. For normal Monsterloot 50% DI is max but some artefacts exceed that.
    Perfection can add another 100%.
    Sometimes the 300% cap can reached easy ... other time not. (For example Lich-Hunting: 100% undead slayer weapon, 100% mage slayer talisman, 50% enemy of one. That leaves another 50% from weapon-DI and other equippment.)
     
  6. thamantii

    thamantii Guest

    thanks everyone, it has been a lot of help
     
  7. Hildebrand

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    Enemy of One is tricky. Yes it gives 50% DI, but, it has something to do with calculations that with Slayer Weap (double damage) plus EoO, will get you to the cap of 300%.

    Who said tali's like primer don't count in the 100 weap cap? I guess tonight, I'll have to check my damage number and see if it changes with and without it.
     
  8. Hildebrand

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  9. Rotgut Willy

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    I had thought I understood DI and it's caps. Now I'm more confused than ever. Maybe I'm just being dense but from the linked FoF it looks like EoO is actually +100%, not +50%.

    EoO reportedly gives +50% damage but it's given a 100 rating (not 100%?), and a slayer property gives +200% damage, which is a 200 rating. This totals a 300 rating but is really only +250% damage. I don't understand why EoO is +50% damage but has a 100 rating while a slayer property is +200% and has a 200 rating. It doesn't add up. Does this mean that EoO is actually +100% damage (as also noted in a current Chivalry thread in UHall)? Which would make sense and those numbers would then add up.

    Also, since apparently Talismans, Tactics, Lumberjacking, Anatomy, and Strength all do not add into the total DI cap, technically the "real" all-inclusive cap is really 538.75%? (81.25% from 120 Tactics; 65% from 120 Anatomy; 30% from GM Lumberjacking; 42.5% from 125 Strength; 20% from a Talisman; 300% from Items/EoO)

    Am I just over complicating things? ;) Or maybe the different damage increases add in at different times so one adds in, then that total is effected by another value; rather than all %'s being added together and applied to the base value?

    Oh woe is me. My head hurts! I'm certain I'm just "not getting it".
     
  10. Rotgut Willy

    Rotgut Willy Seasoned Veteran
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    It just occurred to me (duh) EoO maybe applies to the base damage first, then the slayer applies 200% against that (maybe separately from the base damage? If not, it would still hit and exceed the 300% max), effectively doubling the EoO bonus, bringing the EoO/Slayer bonus to 300%. Right? Wrong?

    So when do the other increases get applied?
     
  11. Hildebrand

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    I'm still looking for proof on the tali not counting on the first 100.

    The way I figure EoO is... you have double damage on slayer weap (200) add in 50% of that with EoO so that is 100. So 200 + 100 = 300.

    So, 100di in items, then 100 in Perfection = 200. Then EoO is 50% of that = 100. So 100+100+ 100 = 300. I guess the devs figure EoO in the last part of the equation.
     
  12. Seismic

    Seismic Guest

    man I would LOVE to have this cleared up!! I thought I understood this ridiculous calculation but now I feel completely lost.

    I have 98 DI from items, run Eo0, and a slayer bow in Doom on my archer.

    98 + (98 * 50% EoO) = 147
    147 + (147 * 100% Demon Slayer) = 294 total DI

    So .. is it that simple?

    Items:

    Ring = 30% DI
    Bracelet = 23% DI
    Stormgrip = 25% DI
    Talisman = 20% DI
     
  13. Seismic

    Seismic Guest

    Not so sure that is it ... this is from UOGuide regarding EoO:

    "All damage dealt to that exact monster type is increased by 50%"

    So it is a true increase of whatever the value is (base damage?) .. multiply base * 50% to get the amount it will increase FROM base (base + (base * 50%)).
     
  14. Hildebrand

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    I thought they add the % to the damage you actually do. Like if your weap has 15 damage, you start adding the DI to that.
     
  15. Diomedes Artega

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    I don't know how the talisman equates in...is why i mentioned that side point. For your main items yeah you're correct. Starting from your base damage it gets tacked on. Then, that is your low to high damage range that you see when you open your profile.
     
  16. Bara

    Bara Guest

    I believe that things like 'concussion blow", when used, add to your % damage increase as well.
     
  17. Setnaffa

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    There is no DI cap on weapons. On the other hand, there is a max you can add by crafting a weapon. I think it's around 60% (the max I've ever had was 55%).
     
  18. Diomedes Artega

    Diomedes Artega Certifiable
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    If you had read a bit more down, you would have seen I made my own correction.
     
  19. Hildebrand

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    Crushing Blow adds 50% DI, but I'm not clear in PvP what that means if you already have 100di on items. Does it mean you can do 150% with this move?
    Somethings are hard to figure out.
     
  20. Hildebrand

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    I did notice on my Primer tally, it does affect my damage numbers on the profile. I forgot to check if I can go over 100 with items + primer for 120 DI. I seriously doubt that.
     
  21. peanutdance

    peanutdance Guest

    So slayer is 'triple damage', or 200%? A 10 dmg weapon with slayer on it, is going to hit for 30?

    So if you're always using a slayer weapon with EoO, you'll always be at 300% DI, and don't need any DI on items? And perfection adds no DI at this point?
     
  22. Hildebrand

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    Slayer weap is does "double damage" which is 200%. So, from your example,
    -your 10 base x 200% = 20 damage. Which is definitely "double" the 10.
    Then (add in last) EoO is 50% more damage of the 20. So another +10 = 30 damage total.
    That's 10 x 300% = 30 damage.
    That's how I figure it and it makes sense. It's where you plug in the numbers. Not 50% of the initial 10. It's 50% EoO added in LAST. This seems to be the math behind the statement on Five on Friday. If so, then we BENEFIT from this method indeed!

    If using slayer weap and EoO, then you're capped and wouldn't need DI items and perfection won't help. But, if you have DI 100 + perfection 100 + EoO (basically will yield another 100 due to the math [I hope so!]) = 300 cap again. Good for bosses that don't have slayer vulnerablilty.

    This of course is for PvM. There is a 100 DI cap on PvP. Enemy Of One and perfection don't work in pvp. Slayer weap in pvp is another can of worms.
     
  23. Seismic

    Seismic Guest

    I beg to differ on this .. DI from items has to figure in SOMEWHERE here because I tested my DI against the Dark Father over the weekend.

    I took my Essence Of Battle (DI 30%) on/off and noticed a damage increase/decrease. I also tried a few different demon slayer bows, some with DI, some without, and again noticed an increase/decrease. This is with EoO, the slayer, and item DI ... NOT perfection. I use that infrequently since I can't always beat the other guy to honor the Dark Father :).

    So I came to the conclusion that I was not yet at the damage cap or just under it. My problem is I don't know where I'm at, exactly.

    KR tells me I have around 57-65 damage with one of my demon slayer + damage increase bows. So is that my base with all items? I'd imagine so .. then the slayer would stack on that, and EoO last (as you indicated, correctly I'd imagine).
     
  24. peanutdance

    peanutdance Guest

    Gotcha.

    I just think it's silly they're counting slayer as a 200% damage INCREASE. It is double damage, which is +100%, not +200%. It doesn't make sense because it sounds like you aren't getting anything from the first 100%, if you have a weapon with a base damage of 10, and have +300% in damage increase, you should be hitting for 40 a hit. If you say you're only hitting for 30 damage, then what happens if you ONLY have 50% DI? Are you hitting for 5? Thats what I was getting at.
     
  25. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Unfortunatly you miss the whole concept of % increase,

    If in your example you have a slayer weapon (which doubles damage) that is

    10+100%(10) = 20

    Then you use EOO for an additional 50% now im not sure if it works but it "should" be

    10+100%(10)+50%(5) = 25.

    Then say youve got 50%DI on your slayer weapon and 50% from your jewels

    10+100%(10)+ 50%(5(DI))+ 50%(5 (EOO)) + 50% (5 (Jewels)) = 35 and your hard cap on damage would only be another 50% therfore another 5, So total Max Damage "should" be 40... 10 + 300%(30)
     
  26. peanutdance

    peanutdance Guest

    No I don't miss the whole concept, I agree with you completely.

    The reasons I was asking the questions is because everyone in this thread was saying slayer contributed +200%, which is not the case if it is 'double damage'.
     
  27. Seismic

    Seismic Guest

    This is really whack but when I use my Demon slayer bow WITH DI (~47%) vs. a Demon slayer bow without, I hit the DF for MORE damage, yet my DI on armor (talismans included) is 98 .. so it should be at cap WITHOUT the DI increase on the slayer bow.

    What gives? I gotta be missing something here..!

    EDIT: I think I figured it out .. it's 47% increase from the BASE damage on the bow, so it's really only a few extra points of damage. It goes from like 47-55 to 51-59. Hmmm....
     
  28. Hildebrand

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    Maybe the Five on Friday should do a THIRD visit to DI.
    I was thinking I "got it" but this gets more confusing by the day.

    *head explodes*
     
  29. Hopeful

    Hopeful Guest

    I m gunna try to explain from my expereince. But I am not possotive even after reading all this.Please correct me if Im wrong.
    My numbers are not accurate so I use 10 as a base for simplicity.
    A plain katana hits for 10 damage.=10
    A GM katana with 50% DI = 10 + 5 (5 being 50% of 10)=15
    A GM katana with 50% DI slayer = 10 + 5 x 2(2 being double damage from slayer property) = 30
    A GM katana with 50% DI slayer + consecrate wep= 10 + 5 x 2 x .20(.20being the damage to 1 of 5 of the monsters ressists 30 divided by 5= 6) = 36
    A GM katana with 50% DI slayer + CW + enemy of one =10 +5 x 2 X .20 + 12(12 being 30% of 36, from what I can tell its what EoO gives me)= 48
    A GM katana with 50% DI slayer + CW + EoO + Divine fury = 10 + 5 x 2 x .20 + 12 + 5 (5 being 10% of 48 rounded off from increase of DF) = 53
    On top of this I have a 30% DI from a ring = 30% of 53 about 18 = 71
    Then I have 15% DI from a Braclet = 15% of 71 about 5 = 76

    OK my formula is crappy but it seems to aplly to my game expereince. I use CHiv obviously but I guess other skills could be exchanged. Am I far off?
    I become confused when the 300% cap is mentioned. Isnt 300% of a base katana only 40 damage?
    When it is said 50% is the cap on weps (I have many with 55%) Does it mean that my 30 % DI ring and 15% braclet are all I need to use with a base katana? It doesnt appear that way to me.
    Well thats a lot of thinking for me today and Im probably way way off but ya know ... no one ever accused me of being intellegent. Any response appreciated. thx


    After reading more into this (as I should have ) I see that there is way more to DI then I could ever grasp. Im basing much of this on a char with 110 tact 110 110 wep. Somewhere in there parry gets thrown in ? huh?
    Ill stick to my tried and true method of picking up a weapon and smacking the crap outta things. I get up to 122 damage sometimes (on the high end)
    If this post is taking up space or is really ill informed please delete it and Ill remember to wrap my head around things before posting half assed stuff. sorry
     
  30. Hildebrand

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    Hold on...
    Consecrate Weapon doesn't give DI. It just makes your weapon turn into the resist that the monster or player is WEAKEST at. For example... If Succabus is weak against Cold resist, and your weapon is a 100% phys damage weap, then your katana will not hurt her as much, until, you cast CW and your weapon turns into 100% cold damage. They you will notice more damage done to her cause you are bypassing more of her resists.

    GM made weapons give 35% DI. If you have GM arms lore, then you make 40% DI weap. If using a runic, or if you loot it, then you have a chance to get even more damage increase. For argument's sake, we usually figure 40% DI since this is easiest to make and more common. If you get higher, then good, but, I prefer to roll that mod onto another better property.

    In PvP, you want to get as close to 100 DI (with weap, jewels, tally, gloves, etc) since that's the cap. EoO or perfection, don't help at all.

    I just wanted to clear these. Does anyone dissagree with my points?
     
  31. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Nope totally agree, the thing that i find (an its probably just because im very good at maths, its my job to be) is that its really, really, really simple...

    You simply times your base damage by whatever percentage of DI your getting (dont "double" it times it by 100%) and you get your base damage with DI.

    so if you have 100% DI and your weap base is 15 then your going to hit for 30,

    150% DI and 15 base = 37.5 (youll probs roll around 37-38 to make up for the .5)

    and 300% and 15 is 60

    Now that DOESNT take into account resistances im not 100%sure but i get the impression if you hit a golem with 300% DI and 100% poison youll only hit for 3.
     
  32. Hopeful

    Hopeful Guest