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Imbuing and Arms Lore

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Chaos, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    How does Arms Lore and Imbuing work together? If I get an Arms Lore bonus, does it count as a property on the item?
     
  2. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    They don't. And no. The only thing that counts against (or for, in unraveling) are material bonuses, and exceptional DI. That's it.
     
  3. Arms lore is worthless when imbuing weapons. The only thing it does is raise the Damage Increase of an exceptionally crafted weapon. DI can easily be tweaked through imbuing at minimal cost in materials, so unless you're looking for something with DI of over 45 (or even 50+), arms lore is irrelevant.

    For crafting armor though, arms lore is critical. Arms lore will gives a bonus to resists when crafting exceptional armor, and these higher resists DO NOT count against the imbuing intensity cap. Simply put, it is not possible to make top-end imbued armor without arms lore. I hope nobody argues this - you can make nice armor without arms lore, but if you had GM arms lore the overall resists on your armor will be substantially higher. Depending on what factors you imbue, a suit could end up with 50-60 more points of total resists through arms lore bonuses (depending on how many pieces and which resists are imbued).
     
  4. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    So basically the best imbuing potential is a non-GM crafer/GM Arms Lore?
     
  5. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    What...? No... For armor, you want exceptional/100 arms lore.

    For weapon, it depends on the mods you want.
     
  6. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Why would you want exceptional when the mods it gives counts towards your total anyway and will be overwritten. (like if you add DI yourself)
     
  7. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I think non-exceptional weapons are capped at 450 total imbuing weight, whereas exceptional can have 500 points in mods. If you want non-exceptional to leave off DI you can just buy an npc item. The trade-off now is as you'll likely have DI on your weapon anyway you can drop it from other items such as jewels, and put those free points/mod slots into some other property. You're basically moving it around so as not to lose out on the extra 50 points on your weapon. Anyone feel free to contradict me, that's just the way I see it.
     
  8. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    I said you want armor exception.

    Exceptional Armor gives mods.

    Armslore bonuses are only applied to exceptionally crafted items

    Exceptionally crafted items are 500 max weight

    Non exceptional are 450.

    For weapons if you don't want di, you don't craft them exceptional.
     
  9. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    It's always better to have GM or better craftsman - there is also an exceptional bonus as it applies to resists, and, of course, the likelihood of an exceptional item goes up exponentially higher with higher skills.

    What you make on a BASE piece of armor, without using runics, does NOT count against imbuing weight. This holds true with plain leather, iron ingots, and plain boards.

    Using leather for an example -

    Base, non-exceptional

    Code:
    ARMOUR TYPE        Physical Fire Cold Poison Energy Total
    Leather                2      4    3     3      3     15
    
    Exceptionally crafted pieces of armour (excluding shields) receive additional resists, distributed randomly among the five resist types - If the item was crafted by a conventional sewing kit, then the minimum number of additional resists is 15.

    FOR EACH TWENTY POINTS of Arms Lore, one additional point is added to these numbers. Due to the "Jack of All Trades" bonus possessed by Human characters on accounts upgraded to Mondain's Legacy (including the 9th Anniversary Boxed set), humans are treated as having 20 points of Arms lore, if their actual Arms Lore skill is under 20.

    ----

    So that is a potential of 35 resist points before any enhancing or imbuing is done - none of which count against the imbue weight.

    Any more questions? Please feel free to join us HERE. We don't bite (usually) and are pretty much willing to share 99.5% of everything we know. Just don't ask what to unravel for relic frags :)
     
  10. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Ok, good point.
     
  11. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    But that's all I wanted to know... v.v *goes back to drawing board*
     
  12. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    So why do people craft using other than base materials, don't they count against the total limit of 500?

    And another point, why are some abilities horrid expensive (LMC, Nightsight, etc.), while others are pretty cheap (LRC, MI, etc.)
     
  13. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    For armor, they add higher base resists, they don't count. The only things that count from armor are lower requirements (dull copper, gold, ect) and luck (gold) from smithing, heartwood random bonuses, HPR, life leech from blood wood, and a lot of the other wood bonuses that aren't resists.

    Basicly if they add anything other than resists, it counts.
     
  14. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Relics... I don't know... I think it's a fail in design... Fink once put it as

    "they made the common ingredient rare, and the rare ingredient common."

    This is I can get the 10 essence of control for 30 SSI in probably 10-15 minutes, maybe less. (didn't pay attention, prolly around 5-10 )( The rare ingredient).

    It takes much longer for the 5 relics (the common ingredient).
     
  15. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    You can get some better resists on the base item using the other materials, but the downside is, you do lose some customizing options. Again, staying with the leathers, if you craft with spined initially, you get 5 additional PR, but you also get 40 luck - the 5 PR doesn't count, but the luck does.

    And the luck is both a plus and a minus - sure, you can still imbue that out to 100, but then you are stuck there. If an item is made with one of the so-called special materials, the ability to further enhance the item is gone. Meaning if you want the best luck suit you can craft, you've already blown 40 points of luck.

    Neither Horned nor Barbed add anything beyond additional resists, but then you are limited in what you can MAX out on them - if you are only making a 100% LRC/all 70's suit, then it's no big deal, and will take less imbuing ingredients. But if you want 140 luck on it, you're out of luck.

    It all depends on what you're looking for, your threshold for pain (poof'ing an item while attempting to enhance can get expensive), and your bank account numbers. And, of course, what you are willing to trade off on.

    I'm intentionally avoiding metal armors - too many extra variables, non-medable unless mage armor is added as a property, and no real advantage, other than RP purposes.

    As for why some things are more expensive than others, on some things, I don't understand the rhyme nor reason myself. Night sight is no biggie - bottles of ichor can be crafted by alchemists at a fairly reasonable price - or free, if you have a lumberjack. LRC is only cheap if you are only taking the piece to 18 - the Faery Dust isn't exactly cheap for those last 2 points. And I don't craft MI/SI/HPI onto items - there's just not enough return for even the small cost involved. I'd rather put the weighted points into regen line.
     
  16. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Depends on the template your crafting for.

    If you use slow, heavy weapons, then there's always a return for stamina increase.
     
  17. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    Makes sense to me. That's the great thing about the current crafting system - you can make just about anything you want, right down to the smallest of details, and not have to worry about having things you don't want. What works for me won't necessarily be 100% compatible for someone else, and vice versa :)

    Is the stamina regen not enough to counter, or is it a matter of perhaps having both SI and SR? I don't pre-make suits - I either do them strictly for myself, or by custom order contract - and learning other people's ideas is actually a fascinating part of the game for me.
     
  18. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Well, the higher your stamina, the higher your swing rate, SI works as an alternate to SSI, and works well with SSI. Generally Stamina regain is too low to actually counter anything outside of running. This the higher your stamina can be, the higher your ssi can be, and stamina leech on a weapon are a must to buffer the hits and decrease in stamina while maintaining a decent swing rate.

    My only wants for imbuing are
    1 Imbuable artifacts (again)
    2. Overide exisiting mods
    3. relic frags not being rarer than the special materials.
     
  19. SR & SI are useful in different situations. I craft A LOT for the both the PvP and PvM crowds. Here are some of the basics regarding these attributes.

    Stamina controls your swings speed - a lot of people think it is dexterity, but is actually stamina. Most people already know this, but don't realize it - when you take damage and your stamina drops, you start to swing slower. Stamina is based on dexterity, but can go higher. Dex, like other stats, is capped at 125 natural & 150 after equipment. Stamina can go much higher. Many dexxers and certainly most archers will want 170+ stamina if possible.

    So now, SR or SI? Well, SI will allow your swing speed to be higher, so stamina increase is absolutely critical. Most archers, dexxers, sampires, will want SI in every single imbued piece. Assuming they can take dexterity to 150, 4 pieces imbued with SI +8 will take them over 180 stamina, and as noted before, when swinging slower weapons (anything slower than 2.75-3.0), you will experience useful benefit for each improvement in stamina.

    On the other hand, whether you want SR or not depends entirely on your template & other equipment. If you are a sampire or ABC archer and have the appropriate weapon (and c'mon, why wouldn't you have an appropriate weapon these days), you should be able to leech more than enough stamina to stay near full. Now, some people like to exclude stamina leech from their weapons, include higher DCI in their suits and rely on divine fury. The third option would be potions - a lot of PvPers go this route because their weapons require features other than stamina leech. Stamina is the easiest to replenish of any of the stats. A single total refresh potion and you're back at full; you don't have nearly the same options with HP or Mana.

    Same type of thinking goes into whether people want MI, MR or both; and in almost all cases LMC trumps both. If you're going to be standing in place and dumping mana on something (think peerless bosses), then MR is really important because you'll be there for a while. MI is less important because the extra points will quickly be burned away if you're not regenerating or leeching.

    For warriors and archers, again you need to know whether you'll be leeching mana with weapons before you know how useful mana regen will be for you. For the typical sampire or ABC archer with proper weapons, LMC is most important, while mana regen is really not necessary when fighting monsters; mana increase is needed to reach a threshold where you can get your initial spells case, after which point you'll rely on leeching.

    In PvP, you can't reliably rely on leeching because there is a cap on damage, so LMC, MI and MR might all be extremely important, depending on how you fight.
     
  20. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    Thanks - I learned something new, and appreciate it :) And added it to my crafting notebook.

    And I certainly agree with the wants list.
     
  21. Guido_LS

    Guido_LS Seasoned Veteran
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    More valuable information, and copied/pasted into the notebook. Thank you as well. One of these days, I'm going to type all this stuff up, and send it to Stratics as some type of mega-faq.
     
  22. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    QFT :(

    oh well maybe one day itll be worthwhile