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Imbuing - to be or not to be... Gargoyle?

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by CrazyUserName, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    Hello all, I am back after a not so brief sabbatical, and I just upgraded my old account to SA. My character slots are full and my crafter (120 blacksmith/120 Tailor) is a human, which has me asking you all if the "bonus" to imbuing that a gargoyle will receive is worth starting a new crafter after I get another soulstone (I don't really want to train blacksmiths or tailoring again :)). Or if buying a race change token is worth it?

    Or maybe it isn't really that big of a bonus to gargoyle success chances?

    Thanks for your help!
    Crazy :)
     
  2. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I can't stand the look of gargoyles so my crafter is human.
     
  3. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    And you feel like they do ok? I have been reading a lot about the changes since I left and it appears imbuing is extremely useful. I just wanted to make sure I am not wasting my time "staying human"


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  4. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    I forgot to add that I just bought 40 skill points in imbuing, so I have quite a while to make a decision if I need to :) (if imbuing is anything like the other crafting skills, I have some work ahead of me!)


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  5. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    I have a 'human' imbuer and use a soul-forge at home and I do just fine.
     
  6. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    Awesome :) thanks for the reply, that makes my day (I won't have to worry about retraining and my pocketbook is just that much heavier :))


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  7. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Imbuing and unraveling there is a bonus for Gargoyles and so if you care about not wasting supplies or retrieving relic fragments from items you should be garg. If you don't care about the cost or how fast you burn through gems or relic fragments then be human or elf. If you are going to be gargoyle then don't switch until the end because the bonus gargs get means your success is higher. Higher success means you have to burn through higher cost resources for skill gains.

    -Lorax
     
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  8. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Usually it is not.
     
  9. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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  10. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    Training Imbuing is different than training other crafting skills. It can trained (to 120.0), simply by unraveling magical items into Imbuing Resources. MIBs, Treasure Maps, and low-mid level monsters are great sources of Magical Residue (MR) and Enchanted Essences (EE). Once your are around GM skill you may want to hunt in the re-vamped dungeons, with decent luck suit, for Relic Fragment (RF) quality unravels. The "unravel container" option will be your friend.

    It is wise to raise your loyalty to the gargoyle queen, so you can use her soulforge in the palace. It will give you a higher success chance to imbue properties, regardless of race. Loyalty can be gained by completing certain quests or by simply killing SA monsters (while hunting for unraveling ingredients). One of my favorite hunting grounds is just west of the city. The Toxic Sliths give about an 85/15 of Magical Residue (MR) and Enchanted Essences (EE), a decent amount of loyalty, and do not have massive amount hit points. They are susceptible to Reptile Slayer. Their real danger is their speed and their high level poison. If you keep your distance and don't get surrounded, a novice mage with a slayer can kill them with ease.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  11. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    Thanks for all the info :) looking forward to making some of my own killer gear ;)


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  12. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Wait until you get into reforging!
     
  13. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    I really like your posts and you are all the time very insightful and helpful, but each point in the first sentence in that thread post is wrong. The point about real skill I don't know what your talking about. Imbuing doesn't have a real vs. increases. There are no jewelry, hammers, or talismans for imbuing skill increases. I almost don't even want to point out your flawed sentence because you are so helpful and there is nothing wrong having opinions on gaining skills. I went through all this like three years ago when imbuing came out so its great to get fresh ideas. It's only one sentence anyway.

    Race and forge do matter on success chance. The following picture shows the differences in success chance for an 120 skilled imbuer. I copied my garg to test center with that piece and race changed for independence of loyalty at the queens forge.

    imbuing_garg_human.png

    The reason to use the human character to train is because there are optimum gain levels and those can be seen with the Crystal Ball of Knowledge. Humans stay in the optimum range at each level for longer before adding more properties on the item. As skill increases so does success chance and to remain optimum more properties need to be on the item for the same success chance. I disagree the cost of lost resources for training is trivial, but have no evidence to show otherwise. Success chance means a lot once at 120. Of course there are tricks to play with imbuing to save relic fragments like imbuing a weapon DI to 1 and then imbue Hit Lightning, but that's not always the case for jewelry, reforged items, weapons, or high end items. It's actually better to train human at a home forge.

    I guess if your training by unraveling then it would be best at high levels to train gargoyle at the queen forge because for shame loot you would have a better chance getting more relic fragments. My friend has been training by unraveling and he's still not to 120 from unraveling after three years. He doesn't really care though because I make everything needed. Still its better to be gargoyle after training for getting relic fragments
    Just to show this isn't opinion about gargoyles here is Chrome's post:
    http://stratics.com/community/threa...lic-fragments-new-thread.211150/#post-1783164



    -Lorax
     
    #13 Lorax_Pacific, Oct 19, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  14. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    Oh boy, I thought for a minute that reforging was similar/the same as imbuing! I have so much to learn!!!


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  15. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    In the end, you want to be a gargoyle. I have 3 crafters, only one of them have 120 imbuing and he's a gargoyle.
     
  16. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    Thanks for summing it up :). From the looks of how fast I am gaining imbuing, If I save $1 a month, by the time I get to 120 imbuing I will have enough saved to change all my chars to gargoyle :)


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  17. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    I wrote: "Chances to gain depend on your real skill and chances to succeed and don't depend on your race or type of a soulforge."

    This means:
    Chances to gain depend on:
    1. Your real skill
    2. Chances to succeed
    Chances to gain don't depend on:
    1. Your race
    2. Soulforge you use

    For example, if you have 70 Imbuing and 50% chance to imbue a property then it doesn't matter what is your race and what forge do you use. (But a human at a home soulforge and a gargoyle at the queen soulforge have to use different items to get the same chances to succeed.)

    Where am I wrong?


    This means that when a human need to imbue 7 luck a gargoyle need to imbue 10 luck. Do you see any difference?
    Well sometimes you spend 1 more citrine for the imbue that you do 1 time per a piece (so 1 time per about 40 attempts). Well may be a human can save 100-200 citrines while training to 120 and waste 500 enhanced essences for a Power Scroll. Tell me please any reason to be a human?

    I suggest start to train by imbuing earlier.
    If your friend want to train by unraveling he should do it the proper way:
    1. Prepare (lock) a lot of bags with stuff to unravel near his home soulforge.
    2. Get satyr's disco.
    3. Recall to the home
    4. Use a SOA
    5. Unravel all stuff

    But I myself prefer to use imbuing to train.
     
  18. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    It doesn't matter friend. The OP's question was answered.

    To the OP:
    When you upgrade to SA you get free race change tokens right? Maybe a code needs to be entered in your client for those.

    -Lorax
     
  19. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    There are race and forge type bonuses.

    Yes I know. But you can get 50% with any race and any forge.

    All guides in the crafter section are good... but
    But most of them was written for differ conditions. Some of them even assume that you can earn gold while training by selling items to npc. They suggest spend 2 hours crafting items with 80% chance over spending 1 hour crafting items with 60% chance just because those "80% chance" items need less resources to craft.

    Things are changing.
    Now you don't worry about spending 10k more cloth if it saves me few hours.
    Now you are not going to sell anything to NPC. You prefer recycle or trash items to save your time.
    Now you can use tallismans to change your chances. For example, I trained Tinkering from 50 to 100 by crafting lockpicks.
    etc
     
  20. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    You can unravel at the queens soulforge and get the bonus even if you don't have enough loyalty yet, you just won't be able to imbue there. I unraveled there until about 80, then a mix of unraveling and imbuing luck on junk for more gains.
    My imbuer is human. I didn't consider the success chance difference enough for me to convert him to gargoyle.
     
    #20 Barok, Oct 19, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
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  21. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    I will try my upgrade code in-game and will let you know if there is a free race token or not :)


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  22. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    Just FYI the 19.99 upgrade code didn't come with a race change token.


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  23. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    I think you only got the token if you pre-ordered it.
     
  24. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    With a new account that doesn't have seven filled character slots you could make a new character that is a gargoyle and transfer the skill points. The queens loyalty doesn't transfer so you would want to only get the queen loyalty on a specific character first.

    -Lorax
     
  25. CrazyUserName

    CrazyUserName Journeyman
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    Unfortunately, and also fortunately :), this account was one I created years ago. I have all seven characters filled. Considering the skill base my characters have (all are relatively high skilled -gm or nearly gmed skilled or higher) it might be worth saving a few pennies a month for a race change token :)



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