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[Imbuing] Imbuing Training Guide, Mk III (Updated 11 January 2012)

Discussion in 'Craftsman's Data Chest' started by Basara, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Version 3.4 11 January 2012

    Notes:
    A. Tests used a characters with a crafted soulforge.
    B. For Training, human is a better option, as items are of higher difficulty, at lower skill (gargoyles have to imbue at a higher skill level for the same chance of a gain, resulting in higher material costs). You can then use a race change token, or get a second 120 Imbuing Powerscroll, use it on a gargoyle, then transfer the skill over with a Soulstone.
    C. Similarly, it is better to avoid the Royal City public soulforges (regular and Queen's) during training, as they lower the difficulty as well. During training, only use the Queen's soulforge when unraveling extremely high end loot for the wider range of intensity that gives relic fragments, as there's still the chance to gain from unraveling, all the way to 120.


    Gains, 0 to 75.

    If you so choose, you can start a new character with the skill, up to 50, or on the normal-ruleset shards, buy it up to 40. HOWEVER, I recommend that you do NOT buy any points in the skill at all.

    The reason for not buying is simple. You can start unraveling, and getting gains and residue, at 0 skill. You will NEED those residue, once your skill gets over 75. All buying the skill, or starting with points in it for a new character, is REDUCE your supplies for later training.

    No gains off fails - only off successes. Gains work like cooking gains (1 gain check per item, if using the "unravel container" option of the craft window, so you can get multiple gains from one container of items - and below 30 skill (or using an alacrity scroll), those skill gains can be 0.2 to 0.5).

    Note that what gives gains for you, using this guide, might be different slightly from what works for someone else, due to combinations of character race, forge used, Power Scroll used, and what you perceive to by your optimum gain range,

    0 - 75 Skill: unravel items by the bag-load.
    Note: Residue returned will vary, and one can unravel items made of special material (so making junk with runics, or enhanced with special materials, are a way to try for the higher ingredients). Starting from 0 skill, you are likely to get 500-1000 magical residue from junk items (treasure chests from Maps & SOS, monster loot, crafted stuff that qualifies as special enough for unraveling, etc.) by the time you hit 25 skill. For the first 6 months or so of Stygian Abyss, you could only gain from unraveling until 25 skill. That cap no longer applies.
    At around 45 skill, you will start having the ability to get enchanted essence. Originally, this was at 50.1, but the changes to how unraveling worked (the same changes that allowed one to continue gaining from unraveling past 25 skill) lowered the bounds for when the more difficult ingredients become available, and when you can attempt to unravel certain items.

    You will need Magical Residue to all of your training; probably in the neighborhood of 10,000, to complete training. This isn't counting the residue gotten back from unraveling your training steps, so it will probably run closer to 7,000. (The prior number of 20,000 was an accidental hold-over from the version of the FAQ dealing with having to train up from 25 skill, before the changes above that allowed unravel gains at all points of the skill).
    You will need 500 Enchanted Essence to get your 120 Scroll of Power for Imbuing. You will do this by getting 10 115 Scrolls of Power for Imbuing, then using a Scroll Binder (an item made by Scribes, using wood pulp made by Cooks) to combine the 10 115 scrolls into a single 120 scroll. Trust me, while there is a quest for the 120 scroll directly, it is NOT worth the price of the Relic Fragments it takes. If you plan to train on a human, then soulstone the skill over onto a gargoyle, you'll need to do this once for each character.

    Once you reach the 70s, your skill gains from unraveling will have diminished, but will continue into the mid to high 70s for low-end items.

    Unraveling items that give essence can give gains close to 100, and relic-giving items can give gains all the way to 120 - but gaining that way is insanely slow.

    By This time, you probably have close to 10,000 Residue. It is now time to start to use these to imbue items for skill gains.

    Training after 70-75 Skill.

    Preparation:

    You will need to have a Blacksmith with Grandmaster or better skills, to reliably make your target items. The target items will be EXCEPTIONAL QUALITY PLATEMAIL JINGASA. Note that Jingasa are HELMETS, and are located in the Helmet section, not the Metal Armor section, of the Blacksmith crafting gump. And, as helmets, are substantially easier to craft than the rest of the SE Plate.

    The Jingasa are chosen for their ease of manufacture, and the automatic Mage Armor property that Samurai Empire expansion metal armor has when made exceptional. This gives you a base of 100% intensity to add additional properties to, at no cost. I suggest the "Light Platemail Jingasa" as 20 of them fit nicely in a backpack/pouch (4 columns of 5) or box (5 columns of 4). You will probably need only about 200-300 of these to get to 115 skill from 75, though you will only work on 20 or 40 at a time. As gains get progressively slower after 115, you will probably get 10 or less gains per container of 20 as you near 120, so the variance on the total amount needed will differ from person to person.

    Each item can have TWENTY successful Imbues. Typically, you'll do one high-end imbue one time, per item, followed by one mid or high level imbue or a second (third, with the free Mage Armor) property, and the remaining 18 all low-level imbues of a last property.

    Training:

    The following methods use only Amber (LRC) and Citrine (Luck, Reflect Physical), with Residue.

    OPTIONAL VERY Early Training: Some people have had difficulty gaining in the 60-75 range from just unraveling.

    Starting at about 60 skill,
    take the Exceptional Jingasa, and imbue some value of luck between 1 and 19 (whatever puts you closest to 50% success) FOR ALL TWENTY SUCCESSES. Skip steps 2 & 3.


    Early Training: When you get where you are imbuing 89 or 90 luck regularly, you will go into "late training" - which adds and additional Imbue between the first & second ones below.

    Step 1 - First Imbue: Add Luck* to each Jingasa. Initially, your target will be to bring it up to close tob50% success chance** (where the optimum range supposedly starts), but eventually you'll work up to 89 or 90 Luck* as the default for this Imbue. (4 Residue, 8 Citrine for 89 Luck; 90 uses 1 citrine more than 89, and will give a slight increase to difficulty). Even as you get into the 110s, you'll still occasionally get a rare gain in this part of the process, but they will only be common below 100 skill.
    At around 70-75 skill, this will be a 19 Luck Imbue (the max 1 residue, 1 citrine imbue).

    Use Imbue Last Property to switch between items (hitting reimbue on failures, until success) to get all 20 items in the container imbued with this property. Once you hit where you're doing 89 or 90 luck as the first imbue, it's advisable to set up 2 or 3 containers of Jingasa at once, to keep things rolling (and to maximize the chance of a rare gain in set-up)

    Step 2(3) - Second (Third) Imbue: After reaching where 89 or 90 luck becomes your default first imbue, this becomes your third step.
    In the "Casting" Section, choose "Lower Reagent Cost". Typically, you'll want to keep the LRC imbue in the 1-3% range (where the cost is 1 residue and 1 amber) with the success chance is around 45%-55%**, and this is done by choosing your first two steps properly.
    Start with the first item in the bag.

    Step 3(4) - Third (Fourth) through Twentieth Imbues: Repeat last Imbue on the SAME item, until you hit the 20th successful Imbue (often, you'll know only by seeing the indication that you're going past the 20th), as that's where reimbue gains of the same item drop off (but can still happen). At that point, switch to the next item in line, using "Imbue Last Property", and doing the remaining Imbues on it on it to get to 20. "Lather, Rinse, Repeat", adding materials into you backpack as necessary. And, slowly adjust from 1% LRC up to 3% LRC, as needed, to keep your target success chance in the area around 50% (really, anywhere between 45% and 60% is probably good). Skip to the last step when you get where your success chance at 3% LRC gets out of your comfort range.

    Step 4(5) - When all the items in the training batch done (or you get out of your target difficulty range):
    a. When you decide that the chance at 3% LRC isn't good enough, finish up the batch you're working on.
    b. Move any items that have been imbued 20 times to a new container, then unravel the bag you have all the 20-times-imbued items in, to reclaim a small amount of residue from them.
    c. Go back to the luck Imbue step (or start with a fresh bag of jingasa, if the reason you stopped was running out of them). Increment your planned Luck imbue value up in your regimen 10 or 20 points (this may mean reimbuing a few items) if needed, and re-evaluate your LRC target number (increasing luck 10, and going from 3% to 1% LRC SHOULD result in the difficulty remaining as it was).
    d. When you hit 89 Luck and 3% LRC being too easy for your plans, move on to "later training"

    Later training (as you close in on 120): Add the following step into the above sequence (which displaces step 2 to become step 3, etc.)
    This is why the previous sections are numbered 2(3), 3(4), and 4(5)


    Step 2 - Second Imbue: At this point, go back to the first item in the container. Choose "Reflect Physical Damage". Again, choose an intensity that puts around the 50% success range, for a single successful imbue. But, as this is closer to the point where regular gains come in, you'll only want to do 1 container (or less) of the jingasa at a time (leave the others to do with a higher value)
    You can take this as high as 13%, without using special materials, and will probably do so, near the end of your training.

    Step 5e: Modify Step 4 above (now the 5th step) as follows:

    e. When you are at 89 luck, and at 1 RPD, and 3% LRC gets out of your personal optimal gain range, you'll begin incrementing RPD up, instead of taking Luck over 90.
    If your training style hits 13% RPD on the second step (possible if using the Royal city public forges), you may need to go higher LRC than 3% (possibly as much as 7% LRC = 1 residue, 3 gems) to stay near the low end of the "optimum range" for LRC.



    Notes:
    *89 Luck: Choose "Luck" Property from the "Misc." category, then hit the far right "triple" arrow to take it to 100, then the middle left "double" arrow once to back it down to 90, then the single left arrow once to go to 89. As noted, if you are comfortable with the extra spending, you can leave out the last one and spend more ingredients, to go to 90. Note that between 70 & 90 skill, you will start at some lower level of luck (ending in 9 for max efficiency in gains), slowly working your way up to 89 or 90.

    **Perhaps into the 45% to 60% range - some people seem to gain better in different parts of the 40% to 60% range - gain chances go down closer to 60%, but you waste less per attempt - the extra attempts required to gain at higher skills may or may not balance out with the reduction in failures. Choose your own comfort zone, after testing the waters. See a reply below for the costs of various amounts of the 3 skills used in this guide.


    Sources of stuff to use in Training:

    Ingots (for making the Jingasa): Mine them yourself (if a crafter, you may already have the several thousand iron ingots you'll need, on hand, from your miner), or go to the Random Gypsy Camp Spawns^ in Ilshenar. The random ones come and go, but the Vagabond and Iron Worker NPCs at the Random sites always respawn at default price (8 GP each for the first 1000, +1 GP each per additional 1000, on regular shards), so there will be a regular source of default price ingots, if you go looking, even if all the permanent Ilshenar Gypsies and the smiths of the other five facets are all overpriced.

    Gems: You can get some from mining, or fighting elementals, dragons, gargoyles, etc. But, that can take way too long, unless you were hoarding looted gems from before Stygian Abyss launched. Your second-best option will be the Jewelers in various cities (including vagabonds in the permanent Gypsy camps). But, like with the Smiths, these can get overpriced real quick.

    Your best bet, again, are the Vagabonds that can occur at the Random Gypsy Camp Spawns^. They respawn at default gem prices, when they occur. And, because of the sheer cost of buying 500 gems at a time, gem purchases of such size (including from normal Jewelers) will auto-deduct from the gold in your bank (unlike the ingot purchases), so long as the gold is in Coin form (if not, use the gypsy banker at the site to break your check).

    Magical Residue: If you're working up loyalty, the Ter Mur Toxic Sliths give decent loyalty, are fairly easy to kill, usually have 2 or more pieces of junk to unravel (up to 5, maybe more), and additionally are things that a quest from Percolem wants you to kill, for which he will give a backpack with 10 Enchanted Essence, gems, and more junk to unravel. He also gives a quest for the normal Sliths, which don't have as good loot, but the quest for them gives Residue in the bag, instead of Essence, so both are good to accept (and both have cool-downs, so you will probably do both, one after the other, in any given night.
    If gathering with another of your characters, any good spawn of crappy equipment will do (especially if you can get away with riding a Giant Beetle while doing it). Swoops and Miasma are favorites (but about anything named from Mondain's legacy, will usually do), and the leftover junk in Peerless & Spawn Champ bosses also are a pretty good haul. Typically, you'll average 1 Residue per 2 stone of junk loot (plus some essence, and the rare relic).
    A last source, if you have a tailor, might be using low-end BOD reward runics. Spined Kits are especially good for this. 45 leather caps made of normal leather will produce a lot of Residue (and a few essence) for just 90 leather and 1 Spined kit, while making the items with spined leather will produce less Residue, and several times more essence than using normal leather would have done (for getting your 115 PS to scroll-bind into a 120).


    ^ Gypsy Camp Spawns are located HERE. (the first section of numbers - ignore the permanent camps, unless the permanent vendors on the shard have also reset recently, in which case you probably wouldn't be looking for the Gypsies for about a week, anyways) Note that not every random camp will have a Vagabond or an Iron Worker (in fact, the only two NPCs guaranteed at each will be the Banker and the healer/mage hybrid, the Fortune Teller), and typically only 3-5 spots of the 10 or so random spawn locations (there were a couple more not listed, but they have not been active since Mondain's Legacy was released) will be active at any given time.
     
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  2. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Imbuing Training Guide, Mk III - additional notes

    Note that altering the order of the first 3 imbues is an option (the original guides chose a different one, with the LRC in the middle), but I find that having a 20-range (steps of 5 intensity) imbue in the last step is more convenient.

    Also, having the two Citrine-based imbues occurring first and second, helps keep gem prices more balanced. If you use Luck or RPD as the third (and repeat) imbue, you will end up using several times more Citrines than Amber. If you use LRC as the third and repeat imbue, however, the amounts used of the two gems stay relatively close to each other (though roughly the same total number of gems bought), thereby keeping the non-Gypsy Jeweler prices more in balance for you, as well as other shoppers.

    Edit:

    Lastly, after typing in this new guide, I went back to using it. An example of how I did...

    Started 117.6 Imbuing.
    Had 20 Jingasa already made during the previous session, imbued 90 luck & 13% RPD as prep work. I just needed more Residue to do the LRC.
    Went out, hunted for more residue (several quests, a dozen or so swoops, etc.), and bought about 1200 amber.
    The last property imbued (and reimbued till finished) was LRC 7% (1 residue, 3 amber), at a difficulty starting in the high 40s%.
    I went through 15 of the Jingasa (plus about 6-8 successes on one left over half-done from the last training session), before running out of residue again (of my 450 or so).
    I got a gain on the first attempt on that partially done one that was probably a GGS gain.
    Over the 15 ones completed after that, I got TEN skill gains, averaging 1 gain about every 27 successes.

    20 More Jingasa later, in the early hours of my birthday, I hit 120 Imbuing. I celebrated by imbuing armor for the character to raise his resists and LRC.
     
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  3. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Some Benchmarks in difficulty to use, resource-wise.

    Some people seem to have greater difficulty than others in making the items needed for training. The following list is of suggested steps, by cost. Choose one for the range you are currently training.

    These Assume you are using Mage Armor exceptional SE armor, such as Jingasa.

    Luck (done as the first imbue of all steps)

    19 Luck = 1 Residue, 1 Citrine
    29 Luck = 1 Residue, 2 Citrine
    39 Luck = 1 Residue, 3 Citrine
    49 Luck = 2 Residue, 4 Citrine
    59 Luck = 2 Residue, 5 Citrine
    69 Luck = 3 Residue, 6 Citrine
    79 Luck = 3 Residue, 7 Citrine
    89 Luck = 4 Residue, 8 Citrine
    90 Luck = 4 Residue, 9 Citrine

    Choose this as the first step. For some people, this will need to be one of the steps under 89. For example, 59 Luck will probably sufficient at 80 skill. However, by 90 skill, you'll be doing 89 luck as the first step, and since gains are REALLY quick in this area, don't prepare more than 10 at any given luck amount under 89, until you see you need more (as it only took me about 40 total Jingasa to go from 76 to 91 skill).

    LRC - either the second step (without RPD) or third step. Don't add Reflect Physical in as the second step, until you've hit where 3% LRC (1 residue and 1 amber) becomes too slow in giving gains.

    1%, 2%, 3% LRC = 1 Residue, 1 Amber
    4%, 5% LRC = 1 Residue, 2 Amber
    6%, 7% LRC = 1 Residue, 3 Amber

    Note that for the best gain range, as you get near 120 skill, you'll end up choosing a number in the 4-7% range (probably 7%, to conserve residue) to go with the 89-90 luck and 13% RPD, for your actual training. That, or you can stay at 3% LRC the whole way, but have to do about 2 or 3 times as many attempts for the same gains (so, in the end, the amber costs balance out, and you spend a few more residue)


    Reflect Physical Damage (step 2, at higher levels)

    You start doing this as a second imbue (moving LRC to 3rd through 20th, instead of 2nd - 20th), once you decide avoiding the extra amber cost is worth the extra step.

    1-2 RPD = 1 Residue, 1 Citrine
    3-4 RPD = 1 Residue, 2 Citrine
    5 RPD = 1 Residue, 3 Citrine
    6-7 RPD = 2 Residue, 4 Citrine
    8 RPD = 2 Residue, 5 Citrine
    9-10 RPD = 3 Residue, 6 Citrine
    11 RPD = 3 Residue, 7 Citrine
    12-13 RPD = 4 Residue, 8 Citrine


    How costs add up: an example of a late-training expenditure
    89 Luck: 4 Residue, 8 Citrine
    13 RPD: 4 Residue, 8 Citrine (plus any failures)
    5 LRC: 1 Residue, 2 Amber (plus any failures) (times 18 successes)

    Successes would cost 26 Residue, 16 Citrine, 36 Amber total, plus losses in failures, to completely train through one item. You could do the same thing at a lower amber cost (3% LRC, for 18 Amber), but get slightly fewer gains over the same number of Jingasa imbued. In the end, it comes down to player preference and that crappy RNG we're saddled with in-game (that is prone to streaks of success followed by streaks of failures)
     
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  4. SLACK

    SLACK Guest

    Re: Imbuing Training Guide, Mk III (Updated 29 March 2010)

    Wow Bas, that's a really detailed training guide. Great job my friend!
     
  5. AngelOz

    AngelOz Guest

    Re: Imbuing Training Guide, Mk III (Updated 29 March 2010)

    What is best percentage success rate to target for optimium gains?

    Right now at about 105 i seem to get good gains from 53%.
     
  6. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Re: Imbuing Training Guide, Mk III (Updated 29 March 2010)

    It seems to vary wildly from player to player. That's why I didn't put specific numbers in.

    Some people were swearing by 55-60%, while I was getting my best gains between 48-53%, and others were claiming their good gain range straddled both of the first two. So, I just pretty much suggest that each person experiment with the entire range 40-60%, and find out where their best range seems to feel right.
     
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  7. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Siege Perilous options

    On Siege, resources either can't be bought, or cost three times as much. This makes gaining much more difficult just from the lack of supplies.

    If one can get the materials, the guide above still works, with of course the mandatory breaks caused by the Rate-over-Time skill gain system.

    Getting materials:
    a. You better have a miner. Use one of the "mining for gems" books from Ter Mur, and have your mining tool set to mine for ore and gems. This will get you iron and gems.
    b. if you have a combat character (and, most SP players have multiple accounts, because of the 1 character per account limit), fight creatures that have gems as guaranteed loot - Dragons, Earth elementals, etc. Of course, with the Publish 73 changes to Shame, you'll have to find less-traveled Earth Ele spawns to camp to avoid being PKed.

    Optional Gain Methods:

    Instead of unraveling everything without checking, look for items with 2 max or near-max properties, including "Boolean" properties (ones that are either there, or not there). These include Spell Channeling, Mage Armor, Faster Casting 1, Night Sight, etc. Bracelets and rings are typically your best choices for this, as you can see how many properties are present (unlike armor), followed by light weapons.

    These will be 200 or more intensity, and you can then find 1 or 2 properties to add or raise (if a 5-property item), to approximate the steps in the method above. Use Hit Dispel as a substitute for LRC for weapons (unless another "hit proc" on the weapon already, in which case use a leech).

    Typically, this is a LOT slower than doing it via manufacturing, but can be cheaper - if you're willing to spend weeks gathering items to train (when using crafted items, you'd get the same number of items to work with in minutes), and have a broad selection of imbuing stuff to work with.

    Another option would be to craft the Jingasa (or more likely, daggers, using hit dispel instead of LRC, with the DI substituting for RPD) in Dull Copper instead of iron, but that's an expensive way of doing things (of course, if you're sitting on thousands of DC ingots, it might appeal to you).

    If you use Dull Copper, you might end up recycling to get ingots back instead of unraveling, since magical loot is still the easiest way to get more residue than you'll ever use.

    (Ideas for this section came, ironically, from non-SP players who kept insisting their time-inefficient methods for gains worked better than the ones in the main body of the FAQ, but their numbers never held up - yet those methods ARE excellent for training in the Siege ruleset, that they don't even play).
     
  8. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Re: Petra's training guide for imbuing, modified version (inc. R Traveler data)

    Shame loot nurf, my (Human, @Queens) gains have now stopped from unraveling - 106.3. Last ~1pt last was from Shame (gertting relic frags), rest was mostly from SA loot, specifically tomb of kings area, Or Dark Wisp/evil-mage loot. I'm studying the guides, I may actually have to make something and train now, ug

    edit - 106.4, [email protected] - ggs probably
     
  9. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Update notes

    Tweaked the text a bit, hopefully for more clarity, and added values to use if you decide to go for lower-end imbuing gains (starting at around 60). 60 is about where 1 luck plus the 1 100% property from Mage Armor nears the optimum range.
     
  10. goldenpower

    goldenpower Guest

    thanks for the info
     
  11. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Chances to gain depend on your real skill and chances to succeed and don't depend on your race or type of a soulforge. There is no sense to use a human character to train. In both cases the most of the time you imbue 1-19 luck to train the skill. With a gargoyle character you will need to imbue slightly more luck for the same cost (1 Residue, 1 Citrine). Sometimes you need 1 more Citrine for the first imbue (that you do once per item = once per about 40 regular imbue attempts). The difference in spent resources will be less than price of 120 Power Scroll.


    There is no sense to do not buy the skill. In fact you lose residue if you start unraveling from 0 skill because the higher your skill the more residue you get from unraveling.
    For example, let's assume:
    you can start with 0 skill and get to 50 skill and 2000 residue for unraveling some items
    or
    you can start with 40 skill and get to 55 skill and 2500 residue for unraveling the same items

    What is better? You are not forced to stop unraveling at 50 skill so buying to 40 allows you to get more residue. (numbers in the example are from my head buy you got the idea)



    I suggest to start imbuing at 45. At this level the skill goes up by imbuing very fast. And you not only get the skill but also increase residue outcome for unraveling and allows you to unravel enchanted essence earlier.

    So since 45 always use imbuing to gain the skill and use unraveling only to get residue (and it's better to unravel at queen's or public forge).

    If you haven't a fighter that collects loot for unraveling you can unravel exceptional dull copper daggers or oak bokuto/bows.



    Actually due to ROT system it's much more easy to train Imbuing on SP compared to a regular shard. Since 70 you gain at every attempt (even on fails). Later chances go down slightly but remain high - at 119 you gain approximately at every second attempt (even on fails). So at SP you need much less resources to get 120 Imbuing (70-120 on SP like 119-120 on a regular shard).
     
  12. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Have to disagree there Corwin. Gargoyles get an innate bonus to crafting.

    Also, there are 3 types of bonuses when using a soul forge. The one is your house in a base 0. The one in the Royal City is higher than that and the Queen's Soul Forge is the highest.
     
  13. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I'll have to look up my old post, but I was gaining pretty steady just unraveling until 90.

    Then again, I had 4 houses/5 accounts full of loot waiting for imbuing to go live (towards the end I was unraveling stuff made from barbed runic kits).
     
  14. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
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    Disagree with which my statement? Yes, Gargoyles get bonus. Yes, public soul forges get bonus. Where I wrote that they don't?
     
  15. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Sorry, thought you were saying they didn't get a bonus. I just misread what you said.