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Impossible to kill this?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by athlon, May 27, 2008.

  1. athlon

    athlon Guest

    call me a nine year newb, but for the first time i went to this lich cave/dungeon where these talking pillars warn you as you walk in.

    Tons of lichs, maybe 6-10, but my greater dragon ate them like mongbats. I preceeded to walk to the upper/right most area where there were stairs going down. I took them and saw this HUGE, named dragon looking thing. I thought, cool, lets see how quick my dragon eats this piece of crap.

    Ran up, invised, honored, sicked dragon, then got into my spot to vet/GH it just in case its 'almost' as tough as a paragon balron (which my dragon also take relativley easily, i only have to GH it).

    Now, let me back up a bit. My dragon is not fully trained yet - has about 108 wrestle - but he still is one of the better ones. He has 885 HP and has resists that are 83/87/50/55/73

    So basically, with me vetting 120 and GH him with unlimited mana, i can tank pretty much anything that does not have area effect like Necro creatures or Yamadon.

    Well, my Greater Dragon lasted maybe an entire 14 seconds with me getting about 3 vets and 4 GH's in, and he was fodder.

    I invised and lored it, and its resists were 99 across the board!!!!!!!!

    What the heck is this thing and can it even be killed?
     
  2. Limlight

    Limlight Guest

    I assume you are talking about Sudiva.

    The dragon was part of a quest.

    "Can it be killed" is actually a great question. One no one has been able to answer.

    I am curious though...if like 40 tamers came with Greaterdragons....with all the bars pulled....if they could slowly kill it...

    If they did....would it have any amazing loot on it?

    or would it be normal dragon loot?
     
  3. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    Can't remember his name, but he was part of the candle of love story line. He will not attack you if you don't mess with him. He can be killed, but it takes a lllloooonnnngggg time, a lot of peeps, and his loot blows. Don't bother messing with him and he won't mess with you.
     
  4. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Its a waste of space in my old favorite dragon and drake room.

    Its left over from a long gone quest that was part of an event arc. It would be really nice if they return these areas to what they were before quests when the quests end.

    Also, its not easily killable. Its actually kind of amazing your dragon lasted 15 seconds because its susposed to one shot everything that attacks it.
     
  5. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    Because you can't "all kill" it doesn't mean it can't be dropped.Do tamers really want to be able to solo everything,and if they can't,they come whining here?
     
  6. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Funny how you read it as that. Maybe you just don't like tamers? They asked if it could be killed not if it could be killed by them. Also, most stuff in this game, like it or not, can be soloed or almost soloed through the use of a tamer. If you think all tamers do is say all kill and wait you obviously don't know many tamers that go after big game.
     
  7. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    And the stuff that can't be solo'd by a tamer can be solo'd by a bushido dexxer...
     
  8. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Don't forget the sampire warrior. They can solo pretty much everything too.

    Lets face it...those that complain about tamers have never taken the time to learn how to template and gear then play that template and gear successfully, because when you are doing 2x my damage and taking 1/2 the damage my pet takes you can solo stuff easier then I can.
     
  9. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Nope nothing wrong with these new dragons.....they're not overpowered at all!!!
     
  10. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Warriors can kill liches in one hit with the right gear and template. Hell, back in the day you could kill liches in one hit with the right template and right gear. An axer with a vanq silver killed liches pretty quickly. The new dragons are not that overpowered. They do handle taking damage very well but they actually kill stuff slower then the good old beetle + mare combo.
     
  11. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Yep, anyone that knows anything about tamers knows that this is true.
     
  12. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    More than likely the warrior would be dead if he had 10 liches dumping on him.
     
  13. That's a problem. Less because of tamers than because the dev team seems to think they have to balance PVM specifically for these super pets they create and they are slowly moving high end PVM out of the realm of possibility for actual warriors.
     
  14. I don't have any problems in the Covetous liche room as a warrior. Once you get the initial rush cleared off they spawn fast but not in large numbers.

    Trick is to not let all of the first bunch mana dump on you at once. A little tactics goes a long way.

    The problem comes when the devs make things that hit so incredibly hard that no amount of smart tactical play can avoid the fact that you die instantly. That's irritating, and it gets more irritating when single tamers wipe it out without any real trouble at all. I don't see how any pet soloing a paragon balron is a good thing, but the devs seem to disagree.
     
  15. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    You folks remember when they accidentally let it be able to be blackrock infected, and it became even badder, and aggro?

    That was truly evil, and disrupted the Candle of Love for the shards where it happened.
     
  16. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    There's no "maybe" about it. I have always seen the taming template as overpwered from the beginning of UO,and it has only gotten worse in my opinion. Using the tamer template is like selecting the 'very easy' difficulty setting of the game.
     
  17. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    If you think that, you don't know anything about taming...
     
  18. QFT.
     
  19. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    No surprise that tamer bashers derailed this thread. Tamers aren't overpowered. IMO, the people who say stupid things like "tamers are easy mode" or other tamer bashing nonsense don't know much if anything about tamers.

    With the excessive amount of time it takes to build a tamer, a lot of people will complain about how powerful a tamer is rather than making one themself. If tamers truly were "easy mode" for UO you would see a lot higher distribution of them at high end content.

    In reality, you see mostly archers at event content because the masses of monsters make tamers a lot more challenging to play (I distinctly recall magincia invasion being almost exclusively archers and dexers... I was on a tamer and a mage)

    You see primarily caster and bard builds for champ spawns

    You see primarily dexers for soloing things like peerless bosses (though some tamers can solo peerless)

    You see a fairly even distribution of tamers, casters and dexers in pvp with slight variances in distribution on each shard.

    If you think spamming all kill is all there is to playing a tamer, you probably haven't played a tamer seriously. If you have, you haven't played a tamer well. Spamming all kill will be satisfactory in getting you through easy content, but anything challenging will require you to manage your pet and your personal agro. Claiming you can still just run around spamming all kill is just silly.

    I play pretty much every imaginable template to some degree and am very confident in all that I've said here. I don't think there's a tamer out there that can outperform my spawner (a bard caster) at spawning. I don't think there's a tamer out there that can out perform my sampire at peerless (not even close to as high of dmg output). I don't think there's a tamer out there that can cherry pick event monsters like my archer.

    The argument doesn't hold up to realistic scrutiny, so drop it.
     
  20. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    I remember long ago, I lost connection (frequent in those times) in Deceit while farming liches with my newly acquired Supremely accurate Axe of vanquishing (bought it then for the outrageous price of 12k). Five minutes later I managed to reconnect and I was still alive but the ground around me was littered with Lich corpses.

    Liches were actually the most farmed monsters.
     
  21. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    As for the original poster's topic.

    Sudvia has been killed on at least one shard. You can tank sudvia with the right pet (greater dragon or hiryu) and a minimum of 2 people healing the pet. You won't do any real damage like that, though.

    There are a few ways that Sudvia could be killed. The only way I know of that has been done was to efield box her with mages and then have a mass of players pelt her with ranged damage. Tamers are certainly not the optimal character type for taking down this beast.

    There's no point to killing her, though. As I understand it, the loot is even worse than the ML champs.
     
  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This is Sudiva (who is a female not a male).

    There were reports that she was killed a couple of times, somehow, but there was either no loot of loot that was nowhere near worth it.

    http://www.uoguide.com/Sudiva

    (Though this article incorrectly calls her a "he.")

    She, as others have stated, was part of the Candle of Love event.

    The quest chain began with this:

    http://www.uoguide.com/The_Darkness

    but is now defunct.

    Sudiva is one of those leftovers I don't mind, personally, for no other reason that that there is an RP-fictional explanation for her remaining: She has taken an interest in us now, for some reason. (The team has also suggested she may play a role in future events.)

    See this 5 on Friday:

    http://www.uo.com/fof/fiveonfriday80.html

    -Galen's player
     
  23. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Although, sometimes the loot doesn´t matter. I would like to try to take her down with a group just to know that I´ve done it and for the challenge.

    Just like the Void Shadow, afaik there were crap loot on it but I wouldn´t mind a battle like that again just for the fun of it...
     
  24. I have one.

    I do.

    How is it challenging? They put in greater dragons which even outdo the self healing cu's when it comes to tanking abililty. They've now made pets ignore aggro while being told to follow. Thats not challenge, thats getting easier.

    Thats a bit of a funny way of looking at it, casters and bards for the spawn which gives no rewards. Caster bards don't take down the champ which does give the main reward as well compared to tamers. Sampires/wammys are the only template that comes close to the 'boss' killing power of a tamer.

    You used to, now it's tamers, archers or tamer/archers.

    Those things in themselfs are not challenging. Managing your pet, well thanks to the addition of greater dragons they can survive pretty well on their own for a while you take care of your personal aggro. Thats assuming you have personal aggro which if your sitting half a screen away spamming heal on your pet is unlikely.

    Realistic scrutiny? What was the last thing added to this game for a bard that wasn't an extension of something they could already do? Firehorns/enticement changed to discord.

    I'll drop it when the 'balance' that so frequently gets talked about resembles the class content thats actually added to the game. (& not just for bards)
     
  25. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    There are plenty of players out there with a tamer character that know nothing about playing a tamer. You are obviously one of those...

    I'm not sure what shard you play on, but on the shard I play on, there are still three or four of just about every other template, to each tamer in pvp, and the tamers that I see pvp'ing do not have an easy time of it unless they are pvp'ing in a group that seriously outnumbers their opponents.
     
  26. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Ok, so you have a tamer and do high end content with them. If I understand you correctly, you're saying you can get through the spawn quicker on a bard/caster or something to that effect, but your bard caster can't do as much dmg as a tamer or a sampire. Well sampires can do ridiculous dmg that far exceeds what is even possible on a tamer.

    I can out dmg a greater dragon with my spawner, but my perception may be a little skewed based on my gear. I have very high SDI on my spawner with 3 of the super slayer scrappers. I concede that it's unrealistic to balance casters around the idea that they would have super slayer scrappers. However, a tamer simply can't do the dmg of a spawner up until the point where you spawn the champ. The tamer's role at a spawn is generally to tank the champ while you take it out. A role that a lot of different dexer templates can handle. Dexers have potential to out damage tamers, but the balancing factor is that dexers have to get really good gear to do that sort of dmg. Then again, tamers have to spend probably just as much time farming and training a pet to achieve their max damage. I still think it's pretty balanced if not at least slighly in favor of the dexer.

    as for pvp distribution. I see lots of archers and tamer archers on some shards. On some shards I mostly see click n stick dexers and necro/mages.

    I agree that the new pet commands greatly improve pet survivability (and should. The old AI was terrible). Tamers still have less control over their pet than a dexer or archer has over their character. It is a lot easier to pull your character out of a fight than it is to pull a pet out of a fight for the simple fact that pets don't move as fast as characters.

    I agree that greater dragons are extremely tough and have survivability that makes them very useful in situations where you expect to be dealing with a lot of monsters. They also have their dmg limited to physical and fire breath for the most part and force the tamer to operate on foot. In most situations, the greater dragon isn't your best choice. I still consider it the best choice for things like the current event content because I have a lot more trouble keeping a beetle/bake combo alive and packs are completely unuseable because of their fragile nature.

    It's funny you should mention bards. I'm finding that bard skill balance relates based on the overall difficulty of monsters in general. Provoke is more powerful when you have situations where you have a lot of monsters that you can use to your advantage. Discord is powerful when you have single, strong targets to deal with. Peacemaking is useful when taming or when you need the ability of AE peace. Bard skills haven't seen major changes recently because they didn't need them. It's as simple as that.
     
  27. AZ-

    AZ- Guest

    Don't flatter yourself. Tamers are idiotically easy to play. Especially in PvM.

    All kill + Gheal x100. Congrats, you soloed Doom/Peerless/whatever!

    In PvP they're even sillier. Figure most people have an HP pool from 100-130. Dragons melee for 50 and can fireball for 60+. Melee + fireball is already 110 plus if you got dismounted (probably about 40 damage) you're dead already. And don't even get me started on Cu dexxers, blind kids could play those.
     
  28. So your saying that because I find playing a tamer riddiculously easy I must know nothing about them. That is a huge contradiction in terms.

    I don't know why so many people can't see this, under my name over there < it says Atlantic.
     
  29. Well no, well sort of... I (personally) get through spawns levels 1-4 easiest on a necro or mage, no need for peace. (tbh when I see people using area peace on barracoon spawns I wonder wth is wrong with them)

    On the actual champion, a caster or bard does less than a sampire or tamer. As the main reward is from the champion I wouldn't say a caster or bard is best for spawns. Which is what you seemed to be suggesting.

    Yes I agree sampire/wammys out damage tamers on high champions/other bosses or w/e you want to call them.

    What three super slayer scrappers do you have?

    I don't really agree with the pulling a dexxer out of a fight is easier thing, especially a high end sampire/wammy which only survives because of leeching will likely die to lots of casting if they try and run - unless their rocking evade. The auto stable feature pretty much means pets are invulnerable, you only have to move half a screen and log out, thats easy even on foot, especially when most tamers are already away from their pet so they don't get targeted by the area/splash damage etc.

    !!! Not the point, it's irritating to play the game this long and see pet after pet added with the expansions and lately even 'just whenever', while your provoker gets pushed further and further in to obscurity with monsters continually added that can't be provoked/can't be the first target.

    There have been no end of ideas suggested for bards some good some bad, some as indepth as whole song books (with the songs actually doing stuff) and some as simple as equipable instruments just for 'the look'. All fall on deaf ears because all they can come up with is pets and pet related accessories. (Sounds like Hank from King of the Hill - I sell propane and propane accessories!)
     
  30. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    My scrappers are demon, undead and reptile. If I had a repond, coon would be a total joke (aka more of a joke than he is already). I easily outdmg a greater dragon with my single-target spells and I have AE spells as well. I like having a tank of some sort holding the aggro of the champ, though (makes it easier for everyone). My point was that different character types fill different roles for group-oriented content. The group I spawn with splits the scrolls after the fight's over, so it's not all about doing the most damage. I am usually focused on doing lots of damage, but that's because my role in the group is as a damage dealer (again, on a caster).

    As for running peacemaking on a spawner. I run peacemaking on my spawner, because it allows me to kill the spawn more efficiently. I was able to shave 30 minutes off my solo spawn time by adding peacemaking and sacrificing resist from my template. I equate that 30 min to the times I had spells interrupted or had to fall back. I haven't really been spawning much lately because other things caught my interest, but when I was soloing spawns, I wasn't doing vermin... vermin is a joke. it's the only spawn in the game where you can 1 hit kill all 4 tiers with AE spells.

    I stand by my original statement. I think a well suited spawner caster is more efficient for spawns than any tamer.
     
  31. Sudiva?

    Um, yes, I believe it is impossible to kill. Alone, and probably in groups. I remember on one shard (Napa?) the big bugger actually got blackrock infected.

    Attempting to kill Sudiva is kind of like catching a waterfall in a shotglass. It's impossible to do and foolish to try.
     
  32. RE: Sarphus...

    Fair enough, though most stuff is a joke with a peacer.

    Read your PM plz!
     
  33. Shamus Turlough

    Shamus Turlough Lore Master
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    For the people who say this, I want to see you solo a dark father on a tamer. Even without the teleport, I will pay a handsome reward for anyone that either provides video from start to finish, or lets me tag along to watch. Sure, I have a tamer, I have two in fact, and the discord tamer is my "easy button". People who say greater dragons are overrated, my max stats full GM cu sidhe would like to have a talk with you. I have seen 3 tamers not be able to take down the Vanguard, where if it takes me longer than about 15 seconds to kill him with a cu sidhe then I'm not on my game for the day. I honestly dont see what all the whining is about. Are these tamers detracting from you logging in and finding somewhere to play? If so, find another place to play. If you see my tamers anywhere and really want to play where I am, ask and I'll move. I think most are like that. There are unspeakable amounts of locations, aside from a few unique spawns, where at this point anyone can go and be alone.

    tl;dr, Quit whining, log in, and play. :grrr:
     
  34. You are partially correct. Instead of simply spamming All Kill you're spamming;

    All Kill
    Macro for Vet heal
    Macro for Gheal
    Invis if necessary

    Done!

    There you go, taming in a nut shell. (Yes I also have a tamer and can solo practically everything imaginable :()
     
  35. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    a nutshell being an oversimplification of a system. yes, that works fine for a lot of things. And a sampire is all about spamming lightning strike... in a nutshell. Oh and spawning is all about spamming wither... in a nutshell

    Soloing the magincia invasion on a tamer is certainly more involved.

    Soloing the current event on a tamer is certainly more involved (even a maxed out greater dragon can't tank all those spawns without some method of dealing with them)

    Sure you can solo peerless on a tamer, but it's generally easier and faster on a sampire. Just because a tamer can do it doesn't mean the tamer is overpowered.
     
  36. When did I say that? To put my opinion in laments terms, no class should be able to solo any type of boss at all.
     
  37. Finch

    Finch Guest

    Ok I have to ask, what are sampire and wammys??
     
  38. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I think we need a fire extinguisher for this overly debated topic. I lost count how many times this debate was brought up.
    I for one notice that greater dragons are pretty darn strong, I also recall how I have never had any problem with tamers and greaters. Then again I am on sonoma, which is pretty empty as it is. I also realize that whining about much doesn't really get anywhere at all. If the devs see this as a problem, they will change it. If not, then it stays this way and we just have to live with it and adapt
     
  39. Desolation87

    Desolation87 Guest


    Go play WoW.
     
  40. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    it's a term used to describe characters using vampire or wraith form with samuai skills.

    Sampire uses life leech from vampiric embrace to heal.

    wammy uses curse weapon to leech life and wraith form to leech mana.
     
  41. Please. Stances like this are the reason UO is the laughing stock of MMOs.
     
  42. Syfka

    Syfka Guest

    even an archer "which as everyone knows is a ranged character" would be dead if he/she had 8-10 liches on him but noooooo these greater dragons aren't over powered at all nope not one bit rolleyes:
     
  43. Syfka

    Syfka Guest

    ahhhhhh but i want a waterfall in a shotglass lol
     
  44. Samurai vampire = Sampire.
    Wraith sammy (samurai) = Wammy.
     
  45. Joyous2K

    Joyous2K Guest

    You are a nine year newb.
     
  46. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Good grief.... I suppose we should all take comfort in the fact that the only people left in game or on these forums are a sad congregation of whiners and complainers....

    First off... Being a tamer and it's "ease" is inversely proportionate to the time and effort it takes to build a Tamer..... (now this is those that ACTUALLY build the skill not the lazy wimps who buy the advance character token and just jewel up the character until they can get whatever pets they want without ever having gone out and actually "worked" taming skill).... So yes it can be "easy" to stand back and say all kill... and reap the reward.....

    However..... How hard is it to be a Dexer?????? Oh let me see..... I go in a room and basicly whack away until it's dead.... heal myself from time to time.... Oh but wait....... doesn't a tamer have to throw a bandaide on their pet from time to time???? why yes they do.... hum..... so as a dexer I do the same thing a tamer does.... Only I might chose to use a special or two.... actually and to tell the truth I have pretty much EVERY character template.... I've worked up more characters and skills than a majority of folk including at least 5 tamers... So don't preach to me about ease..... I can work up a dexer in less than a week.... most cases 120 several skills..... Definitely CAN NOT do that with a tamer working them up from scratch..... Not possible.... Trust me.... You can work up a mage in under a week as well... And that's without using any third party illegal programs....

    Those who whine and complain likely are jealous that you have the patience to actually work up a tamer and they do not... Either that or they are just whining and complaining to hear themselves whine.... as they like that sort of thing.... Do not judge anyone until you have walked a mile in his shoes... Could be what you see is covered by veil and shroud... that grass always looks pretty green on the other side till you get up close and inspect it.

    You know..... If folk in the game put as much effort into filing bug reports and putting in truly constructive thoughts and ideas as they put into complaining and griping the Dev team might actually get more done to improve the game.... Just a thought.

    [​IMG]
    Please click the egg/hatchling and help my dragons grow.
     
  47. Finch

    Finch Guest

    Sounds interesting. can you either post a template or PM me one? Seems like I am always one step behind everyone else.
     
  48. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    Sampire info

    I'll stay out of the tamer debate and the Sudiva question has been answered. So nothing more to say.
     
  49. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Yeah... Overall tamers aren't any harder or easier than a dexer. Dexers have more control over their character than a tamer has over his pet. Tamers have more tankability in some situations than a dexer does.

    Ultimately, a dexer is capable of higher dmg output and with leeching templates has the ability to tank anything a tamer's pet can tank and possibly some things a tamer's pet can't.

    I don't think people play tamers because tamers are more powerful. They play tamers because having and controlling pets is fun.

    I think the argument that no character type should be able to solo boss monsters is silly too, because every combat character type can solo boss monsters if you build your character to the extreme. Just because you don't like that people can solo something doesn't mean it can't be done. Just because a tamer can ALSO solo something doesn't make the tamer overpowered. Actually, it's exactly what makes them balanced :)

    edit
    I thought it should be added that my tamer can't hit for an avg of 150 dmg every 1.25 seconds and tank anything. My dexer can. My mage hits slower than my dexer, but harder. His avg dps is about the same. I have VERY high end pets, so I am convinced that the system is balanced because I can do just as much dmg on all 3 character types.
     
  50. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    How the Hell did a perfectly legitimate question about Sudiva devolve into the same old tired Tamer vs. Samurai Vampire vs. Whatever debate?

    *sighs*

    This is very depressing.

    -Galen's player