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In Defense Of Lady Amandine...Continue

Discussion in 'UO Atlantic' started by Queen Arya, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    If Tresha did move their camp to Jhelom, I have to say I am having difficulty finding it. Putting out fires and jailing rioters for many weeks has allowed me to monitor the city.

    Unless she is actually smart enough to be aboard a ship, in which case we may never find her.

    Also I have spoken to several people at Hendalls Inn after we took down Exodus, and inquired about someone who may know the remainder of the Ourboros list. They suggested asking Joanna Weaver. Anyone knowing her where abouts post your reply here please.

    I have great hopes Adamu has gathered his wits now that Exodus has been taken out of the factor so we can get some answers.
     
  2. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    I'm pretty sure they never actually got it set up, they'd only gotten so far as to find a location they could use. So it's doubtful you'd find anything major.

    I don't actually see Joanna too often, but I do have her ICQ. I'll let her know to check out the other thread and see if she can help.
     
  3. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    Glad to see this is back up and running. I've been busy but I'm still keenly interested in this. Can anyone more knowledgeable than I telll me how we got here? Is the seer blood-line it? This from the original thread:


    Also, anyone get a chance to question Dupre during the fight or when he made his appearance on the shard a few nights before that?

     
  4. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    We questioned Dupre, and he did grant us some time to ask questions but was very vague and rather smug
    I asked wheres he has been all this time, his answer in the taverns of course. the town criers are saying due to Dupre and HIS Knights of the Crux Ansata (rolls eyes) we took down Exodus.
    Adamu was found under a bridge in Trinsic, but he too was under the weather
    It seemed Exodus was really our main focus, and as it should be.
    Now that Exodus is no longer a factor, we need to track the Ourboros families and set up meetings with Sherry, Danica, Lord Dupre and Adamu.
    We really need to track down Tresha!
     
  5. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    The imprisonment of Lady Amandine was just a quick plot device so Lord Dupre could lead the forces against Exodus on all the shards for the event to keep things consistent. Now that it is over, she will be released to continue her leadership of the Crux Ansata.
     
  6. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    I believe we still have a trial to go through before that can happen.
     
  7. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Bennu posted some links for us to read through in the other thread that contained lists and bios of seer characters. Going through those lists and finding the names that were previously given to us is how we ended up with the ones we have now.

    So far of those names that were given, Jordan Cromwell, Claudia Raym and Martoo Saul's rings have been located.
     
  8. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    While on the surface this is true, as a whole it is not.

    As with most of my major plot decisions the decision is in fact up to the players.

    At the end of this, I see four outcomes.

    #1: Danica is censured, but returns to command the Crux Ansata and Dupre returns command to her.
    #2: Danica is punished and forced into retirement, put to death, or otherwise rendered unfit for command.
    #3: The total dissolution of the Crux Ansata. (Doubt it)
    #4: Something wholly unexpected due to player interaction.

    However, the decision is now, and will remain in the hands of the players who involve themselves in that decision. It is just how I do things.

    One of the great things about being an EM in the current program is being able to take a 'dictated' plot element, but still have the freedom to implement that plot element in any way we see fit.

    Think of it this way:
    Dupre was always meant to lead the assault against exodus, it was his 'destiny'. So in all manifestations of Sosaria and shards of the gem of immortality it was predetermined that Dupre would be the one to lead the fight against Exodus. HOWEVER, in the case of our shard... how that happened was totally unique and continues to be relevant in the current plot.

    Don't wash your hands of this plot just because a single element mixed with the live arc... Its part of my job to make them seamless :)
     
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  9. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    #5: My stealth thief sneaks in and nabs all the evidence against Danica and the judge is forced to dismiss the charges against her.
    She resumes command of the Crux Ansata but she is even more unstable now after her stint in jail, and she starts a war with the Gargoyles and Elves. All of Sosaria fails into chaos and breaks up into city-states where city loyalty is even a bigger factor. People who are loyal to one city will be able to kill people loyal to any other city.

    ...

    Profit!
     
  10. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    How about- we hold boat washes-(No Cars back then ) and raise funds to pay off Dupres debts at the tavern and he releases her
     
  11. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    So basically you want us to bribe a Knight of Honor?
     
  12. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Or we can continue on with the trial like a majority are inclined to want (due to the posting in this thread) and ask for your help with reading up on the clues Bennu gave is in our first half of this post to help solve this puzzle
     
  13. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    I just can't wait to see how this trial is going to work. Seems to me like any number of things could go wrong...
     
  14. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Wonder if we can ask for a sticky for the current Ourboros list and have additions made as we find them-just until this arc is over?
    We need to construct a time line-where we compile what we have from both threads
    My desk is a mess with info jotted down here and there
     
  15. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    I still like the idea where Tresha is aboard a ship-if we could find it and actually enter a ships hull full of info
    Maybe even have an event where we use ships and fight spawn (perferrable Jhelom Zombie Toads) would be kool
     
  16. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    I've been keeping all my notes in a notebook that's been designated solely for UO... lol
     
  17. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    Awesome. So then this quote from the other thread is true as well?

    And just to help the checklist. This is Bennu's list of tips, with the stuff we've covered completely struck through:

     
  18. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Not sure where that second list came from to be honest.

    As we stand now, this is correct. Including the assumption at the end :)
     
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  19. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    #1 was discussed in an interaction a couple days before the battle with Exodus. Adamu got his ring from his father, Lord Hervan Wellings of Magincia.

    As for the others... Still working on it.
     
  20. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Okay, so our list is as such at the moment:
    • Adamu Edom
    • Bennu
    • Lady Amandine
    • Mikhael
    • Lady Serian
    • Lord Simeon Bennu
    • Jordan Cromwell
    • Claudia Raym
    • Martoo Saul
    • Body in Magincia (Unknown)
    • Verity Jerison
    • Finth Desryn
    As for what I have for timelines:

    Children (We don't know yet) <- Adamu Edom <- Hervan Wellings <- ???
    Bennu <- ???
    Danica Amandine <- ???
    Mikhael <- Step-Father (Through his mother) <- ???
    Lady Serian <- ???
    Lord Simeon Bennu <- ???
    Jordan Cromwell <- Time Lord
    Claudia Raym <- ???
    Martoo Saul <- ???
    Verity Jerison <- ???
    Finth Desryn <- ???
    Unknown Body

    I forget if it was mentioned before who Danica got her ring from...

    *Edit*

    As for the locations of the rings discovered so far:

    Cromwell Estate
    Claudia's Cave
    Trinsic Guard Tower
    Rusty Anchor Inn, Trinsic
    Wooden Cabin outside Minoc
    FoA memorial area, 2nd floor of the Wisp Dungeon
     
  21. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Ovenbird these are the names I recovered from some of the links that Bennu suggested to us for doing further investigation .It was a hit or miss idea because many of our confirmed names appear on the same lists together with these​

    UO Stratics *New* | Lore and History​


    Queen Dawn
    Lord British
    Clanin
    Joye
    Mariah
    Lord Nicolus
    Nystul
     
  22. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    There is this idoc that is falling either thursday or friday. it is full of books. UO history books. It seems to be the history we seek. One can only hope someone who cherishes UO history as much as we will recover this info and let us take a copy. Or the house falls at an hour I am actually awake to recover this library of massive info

    I am hearing Mesanna is dying masks on thursday?
     
  23. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    I'm hoping someone here grabs it up.
     
  24. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    In the report on the Fall of Exodus I read the line from Adamu: "when honour is torn, so shall the world break." And in the Awakening fiction the theme relies heavily on Honor. It also relies heavily on the battle of Honor vs. Sacrifice (As Dupre seems to wonder why he hasn't died). It would seem Sacrifice (love, courage) is the middle ground between Justice (truth, love) and Honor (truth, courage), which is our theme for the trial of Amandine. Perhaps Sacrifice is a key for the case for Amandine?
    But here's a yarn:
    Jimmy was in Love with Tresha. Did he want to take out a symbol of Love (Amandine)? To kill what the people love in order to show his love (For Tresha)? In the city of pure Love (Britain), the seat of the people? The heart of the realm?
    Tresha, if aligned with Jhelom, would be pure Valor, or pure Courage, the courage to stand up against risks. That means Jimmy is Love and Courage (the courage to give oneself up for Love), meaning he is Sacrifice. Amandine allowed Jimmy to pay the price of Sacrifice and for that Dupre released Tresha, of whom he is aligned with in courage (Honor = truth and courage).
    To make a long story short: Tresha, Dupre and Jimmy all have courage. Amandine and Jimmy have love. Dupre and Amandine have truth.

    But, if honor is torn, so shall the world break. I'm trying to make sense of this all, anyone have any pointers?
     
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  25. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Really like this train of thought.

    Also, Adamu's vision was of the honor moongate being torn asunder and the rift that remains.
     
  26. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    So to repair honor- we have to show courage and sacrifice something. Uphold justice and show spirituality by working as a team.
    Show honesty by admitting what was maybe done immoral. Have compassion by knowing we are only as strong as our weakest link and helping the weak. Holding pride in check by being humble. Topping all this off with Valor?

    How do we incorporate this into a defense for Danica and the Ouroboros line?
     
  27. Lady Mal

    Lady Mal Journeyman
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    Wow.. so much reading between this thread and the other. And I still have all the Official fiction to read through and get updated. I missed out on a lot of the current events, but I am returning to the game, as some of you know. I have been attending on my other character, who was actually my main for a decade ( now I feel old lol ) Ceinwyn ab'Arawn.

    I was directed here by Faeryl. Can anyone offer up a synapsis of the current events, I still plan to read the fiction in its entirety ( how could I resist?? just reading the past two topics are pulling me in )

    So much debate- Danica, our beloved leader, I have no doubt she was forced to act in the manner she did, somehow. The sword wouldn't have let her act otherwise, would it?

    Do we have a most current list of the Ouroborus family names? How many are left? We are forgetting some and I intend to dig into it as well.

    Sorry for the absence, moved IRL and been readjusting to things :) But I am back. I missed all of you ( even the Crux haters who provide so much intrigue and drama to the story )
     
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  28. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Welcome back ma'am, and you were missed also. :D
     
  29. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    I've heard a lot about Ceinwyn over the years, but I had no idea that was you!

    How far back are you wanting... I could go on and on and on.... and on... and on.

    I wouldn't say she was forced... Seems to me that she just let her emotion get the best of her.

    As far as I'm aware, the most current list of everything is in my last post on this thread. I'll try to keep that post updated with any new info we may find.

    Glad to have you back! :D
     
  30. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Thank you so much Joanna and welcome back!
    Now we have the big guns out-look out Bennu! :gun:
     
  31. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    It's a roundabout with I agree. More conjecture:


    If we want her to live we can't be just, in a sense. Amandine carries the sword of Justice. She is from Yew, the city of Justice. If she were to be tried according to these lines, we must punish her as she punished Reddish. She had no Love for Reddish, she would get none as a noble.

    Interesting to note, in the fiction right after Amandine had her coming together with with her sister she gives up the Shield of Valor quickly: Atlantic EM : [EM Fiction] Lady Amandine goes shopping. - Ultima Online Forums. This shield represents pure courage. Even though the armor reacts well to her, she sends it away. She also notes that she'll never give up her Sword of justice.

    And a guess on our Ouroboros list: is the Ironhand family one that might have one? Gregory was chosen by the players (it says), was a Seer, and one of the few other characters that have specific haunts on Atlantic from what I can tell of the lore lists. Coryn Ironhand died, Gregorys wife, and he had a daughter who could have carried it.

    EDIT: If we consider Ironhand blindly, then also Norab. He has a Seer residence as well.
     
  32. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    Also, here's a thought: The Time Lord came to Cromwell and seemed to be giving him a job. IE, signing him up for the position of Seer. The Time Lord also called to Lord British and told him about a person from outside of Sosaria that was his counterpart. The Time Lord told the person in the Gem of Immortality (the computer world of UO), that was shattered into shards, about how to live life. In a sense, the creator of the game whispered into NPC British's ear and told him how to live. The Creation Myth. This is from re-reading Cromwell's study on Ouroboros and Sherry's My Story.
    As we seem to be on the track of hunting down original Seers, I think, would mean the Time Lord was Richard Garriott?

    I apologize if this breaks the fourth wall, so to speak.

    Also: there's a map in the Cromwell estate with some points on it. I changed them by accident. Anyone know if I just messed something up for someone on a quest or anything like that?
     
  33. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Its ok Ovenbird... someone ate Nardello's peppers too.... we wont mention any names :)

    Then we need Richard Garriott to take the stand in Danica's defense... that would be wild
     
  34. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, I was wondering about the Ironhand family as well. If that's the case then one would likely be located in Yew at some point, as Daelia worked in the Deep Forest Healing.

    I'd have to reread it to be sure, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading that Norab lived in Magincia... Having gone to check, when they blew up Magincia, they removed that particular seer location as well.
     
  35. OvenBird

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    Damn the interactivity! I think that's the second time I edited it actually. And at the least I hope the Awakening can bring him back to the shards. But we're still not certain how the Ouroboros interacts with the plot. But I've changed my idea on this pint.


    I re-read NEWS - Murders and Mysteries | Stratics Forums. Adamu, when he was the time lord, handed them out. But Adamu himself received it from Hervan Wellings. We don't know any more about Hervan do we? Did Adamu get more rings when he was Time Lord? Or did he, as the time lord, hand them out to his father, like a back to the future thing? I'm thinking it's like back to the future, as Cromwell also received the rings from the time lord, which could have been Adamu.



    Ah right, we're still at the in game standstill. I'll try to find more of these characters contemporaries when I get a chance to make a "perhaps" list.
     
  36. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    All we really know about Hervan is that he lived in Magincia, was a politician of some sort, was married to Genna, Adamu was his son and that he and Genna were both killed in the destruction of the city.

    I wished I'd thought to keep the journals of the conversations with Adamu, I'm really kicking myself now. lol
     
  37. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    I am having a hard time remembering the first encounter with Tresha and Nardello-I dont see a post of that event- was Reddish around then or did Danica just know about the thugs Nardello hung around with and knew he could tell of Nardello's location so she used the sword of Caliburn to persuade info from him
     
  38. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah, sorry about that... I got too busy and didn't have the time to write about that one...

    Yes, Reddish was around. We had to speak with him and a few others to get the clues that led us to Tresha.
     
  39. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Time Line:
    The Time Lord (Adamu) Parents were killed in Magencia and we found the young Addie scared, hiding in a tent. ( happened during the Bane event) We helped train, teach and raise him while he grew into the young magician at which time he walked off into the void to become the Time Lord. Was he like Ovenbird suggests, just a continuous rebirth and the Ouroboros rings were given out through time. Past, Present and Future? ( does anything happen when the rings are all together in one place?) Can we collect the rings and have them present at the trial?
    If in fact the above is true, then Adamu knows what took place then, now and tomorrow. We need to call a meeting, if just RP and have us all there like a deposition of sorts.
     
  40. Bon Iver

    Bon Iver Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013

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    Hello All!
    I hope I am not forgotten. After the kind Queen Arya caught me up on the latest events (I tried to proccess but still ended up confused) I am now sort of in the loop.
    I think for all of those who are interested in this case yet haven't attended all of the events; it would be great if someone could conjure up a summary (brownie points from Bennu :banana:).
    It is a common question and the main motif behind this thread but WHY IS DANICA IMPRISONED? Well I think we should do our own protest to find out the truth.
    Lord Dupre is and always has been a suspicious character, gaining power from thin air, so I believe he is not only Danica's imprisoner but also a conspirator.
    I say we refuse our services as the Knights of the Crux Ansata from Lord Dupre until he offers up the truth. Blackmail would be another name for it.
    Now that Nardello is dead, I was wondering WHY he left the Ouroboros rings behind if those were (most likely) the main motives for his killings.
    Also, I was wondering what is so special about the rings, what happens if they are all collected? (The earth is rid of all it's impurities perhaps?)
    I might have a totally different perspective but these are just questions I asked myself while investigating so allow me to open my mind up to you.
    Bon Iver
    Knight Lieutenant of the Knights of the Crux Ansata
     
  41. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    *pokes Bon to make sure he's real*

    Trust me, I've been here the whole time and I'm still not sure that I understand everything that's going on. I don't blame you for getting confused! lol

    I'm pretty sure Danica was imprisoned because, even though we are in a time a martial law, murdering someone out of rage and dragging their mutilated, bloody corpse through the streets is just a little extreme.

    As for Dupre, I wouldn't say he gained power entirely from thin air. He was called in by Sherry after all...

    In the case of Nardello, now that he's dead, we may never figure out his true motives and why he didn't take the rings. I don't remember exactly what Adamu said, but I remember him saying something along the lines of the rings not having any special power, that they were just a sign of destiny. But he also said that they could take on a sinister meaning over time.
     
  42. OvenBird

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    I was thinking this Dupre thing is kind of odd. In the fiction between He and Amandine he claims that it is his right to claim Amandine's post. But as was said, Dupre had been called in by Sherry and Amandine seemed to understand this position. It's not as if she didn't have the courage to stand up for herself, but she did non-violently submit to Dupre only after her Sword wouldn't budge. At the end of the fiction, she makes it feel like a womb. Also, she says that Dupre looked at her in a way only Addie had before, leading me to believe it's not a plot against her.
    Though with the new fiction, I'm wondering if Dupre hasn't done something he shouldn't have. He came back to fight Exodus, just like he always has, but Honor, his Virtue, has been broken. This would mean Courage or Truth has been ripped from the equation. My guess is that, because Dupre has never ever not been courageous, it is Truth that has been left out of the equation. Without truth, Honor becomes Valor, which is blind in a way.


    This is still a major question. But, only two of the murders were absolutely tied to Nardello, because only two Nardello peppers were found. That means that we're tied to this larger mystery, because someone else is also killing Ouroboros members.
     
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  43. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Just because only two peppers were found, doesn't mean that Nardello didn't kill the other two. After all, before he was killed Nardello admitted he committed the murders.

    Perhaps he killed Lady Serian and Mikhael before he decided to start using the peppers as a calling card, or pehaps that since they were family, he didn't need to leave any clues, because their relationship to him in itself was the clue. Or perhaps he did leave one with Mikhael, but as evidenced by the condition of the body, it could well have been eaten by the rats of the forest before our arrival. *shrugs*
     
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  44. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    Actually, we know Jimmy was related to the two victims in Trinsic, and that the peppers were found in Minoc and Magincia. We know Amadine was attached to one of those bodies, the Minoc body. I can almost guarantee she is related somehow to the second, and not just through the Ouroboros. Perhaps Nardello was reacting to the death of Lady Serian and Mikhael with equal force, targeting those that he know would get a rise out Amandine.​
    *EDIT*​
    Very true about not placing the peppers at the other bodies. Someone could have eaten the other peppers before we got there.​
     
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  45. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    If that were the case, why focus on Danica? He had no evidence or reason to believe she had anything to do with their death. Not to mention that Lady Serian had denied him his birthright by giving his father's ring to her own son.
     
  46. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    Your're right, I'm just questioning everything. Not productive. So the report is correct, he killed all four.

    When asked about the four Nardello murders Adamu said it could have been jealousy. But it could be that he wanted to undo things Adamu set in motion. Also Amandine was a visible figurehead. She was rigid in her abilities and capabilities, orderly. Nardello hated that. Or Tresha hated that (Also as a side note: Tresha and Nardello probably followed the perverted Blackthorne form of Valor: Thou shalt fight to the death if challenged, or thou shalt be banished as a coward.)

    Here's something else from Amandine Goes Shopping, more Virtue talk:
    In the UO Virtues, Red is Valor (courage), Green is Justice, (truth, love), Black is Humility (someone without courage, truth or love). So inside Amandine's head she's both Proud (the opposite of Humility, courage truth and love) and Humble. This is an incredible dichotomy to have. This would inherently pervert Justice, especially because the attachment to Justice seems to subconscious, not fully understood. Perhaps Dupre jailed her to enforce her humility.

    *EDIT* Also, can we add Lord Nefran as the name of Mikhael's step-father, as Nardello's real name was James Nefran?
     
  47. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    ding ding ding!

    Well done.

    [​IMG]

    It is also interesting to note that in modern political theory as well as classical ancient political theory, the idea of justice is highly subjective. It is amazingly difficult to 'pin down' just what justice is. Its one of those 'you know it if you see it' type things and has never been totally quantified with law. The very idea that justice is blind is a fallacy. Justice should never be blind, law without compassion is tyranny.
     
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  48. OvenBird

    OvenBird Journeyman
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    Thank you Bennu. I do think we'll crack this code one day.
     
  49. EMTiberies

    EMTiberies Journeyman

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    "What do you think they will do to her?"

    "Does it matter to us?"

    "I should think it does."

    "Well, to some degree. But what I mean is....Does it matter in the long-term. Ours is a long game. We do not follow the true path to conquer, we conquer to reveal the true path. We have always been here though we have been seen only recently, and we will always be here, even when we are not heard from for a long time. She is but one of many obstacles. We will move aside those which we can, wait out the ones we can do nothing about, and destroy those which it is in our advantage to destroy rather than merely move aside."

    "So which is she."

    "We shall see. But what actually happens to her is of little consequence compared to whether or not she stands in the way when the time comes."

    "What do you think they will do to her?"

    A sigh echoed through the room. "Does it matter to us?"

    "I should think it does."

    "Well, to some degree......Did we not just talk about this? We need to talk about the Gate, and the echoes......"
     
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  50. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Ok... we now have Tiberies interested!
    It was the Honor Gate. What does that mean. why not compassion or spirituality? "When Honor is torn, so shall the world break" Yikes
    Heres a thought. At each of the shrines Adamu placed notes of interest, are these clues to the path we are to follow?
    It was great taking a journey to the shrines prior to our battle and contemplate our fates. Was there more to the notes I am just not getting?
    Also what about Hethe, the creepy knight that seemed to know Dupre? We never really got to talk to him. I mean without wanting to string him up
    Wait... someone else is killing the Ouroboros family line. Because they are in the way of what?