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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Radugast, Aug 17, 2010.
Almost every mmo has one of some sort.. 13 years old, is it time yet?
I'm for it.
They don't have the money. look at there inferior gamecodes website and that will explain the funding left.
I'm all for it!
Auctionhouse bad, legal Vendor search good!
UO has already been dimmed down to no interactin. Gates, recalls etc.
Vending is the one activity that requires player to move and interact.
A search system, if you dont like the reasons above, would absolutely create monopolies.
That is, I and others, would simply buy all the hot stuff at 6am in the morning and reprice it. Sure hate me. Thats what merchants do. Think about it. Give people a way to find the location of the newest stuff and someone with billions, not me, can scarf it down... and xshard away.
Horrible idea. Build relationships with crafters and vendors and find what you need.
How would it create monopolies, if anything it would create more diversity and the chance for everyone to sell things, instead of the market being cornered by a few stores and Luna vendors.
And the current system doesn't really give much interaction, in fact a search system would give more interaction as you'd get out more to more places and houses.
Show me where you can find players to interact with. Luna bank? PFFFTTT! Most are AFK and don't respond. Global chat? HA! Get rid of the spam and flagrant verbal abuse. What about the early hours that I play and no one else seems to be on my shard? I can't always play at "peak" times. It's a 23-1/2 hour/7 day a week game, not just two hours every evening.
Most vendor shopping has absolutely nothing to do with player interaction. You walk around Luna spamming "Vendor Look" and not asking other people for specific items.
Player interaction for shopping died several years ago when Luna took over 90% of vendor spots.
Yes, auctions have that potential for attempts at price control. Auctions without buyout options and ending times during peak play can help with that.
But in any case, isn't that what happens now with vendors anyways?
Absolutely for an in game search engine.
It will be the most useful tool in UO and it will stop giving honest players a reason to use illegal search websites.
Who knows, perhaps we get an account item search tool as a 13th Years Veteran Rewards ?
As in regards vendors, well, I have conflicted feelings as to whether I would want a global search engine for vendors or not.
I sure would like to see also "Buy" vendors as opposed to "Sell" vendors which we have now.
I agree with a lot that you write. In this case... the ability to search and find will be abused in a sense. Those that have endless time and endless money can basically buy up the good stuff.
Consider it like this. Luna X100. Why? Because anyone at any moment can find everything out there.
A search system would create player interaction. It would just create another. Seek and recall. The bane of the game.
Well I have 4 rune books of non luna vendors. Try reading their boards. Leaving them messages. Asking for things. Meeting up with their crafter via message board etc. You have to put in some effort.
yep legalize drugs too for those honest players too.
Worst idea ever.
BUY VENDORs is a great idea.
What you mentioned already happens and wouldn't be any worse. It would get better because S&D would expand in scope.
It's time for a better vendor system in UO. With the search sites driving the majority of all UO transactions to Luna and Tokuno the system is slanted in the favor of those that have houses there. I'm not going to get in the argument you HAVE to have a house in those areas to be successful but the benefit is so great it cannot be dismissed as laziness.
LOL.. I've been trying for days to do just that. It doesn't work. Sorry of it hurts your vendor feelings, but the current vendor system relying on "player interaction" does not work.
A shard-wide system will NOT hurt vendor sales... OH, it might hurt your vendor sales in Luna because people will be able to find deals outside of the overpriced town.
i agree...lez make one would also get some people exploring trying to find some of the out of town vendors.
No hurt feelings.
A vendor search engine would help me. I just think it would be easily abused.
Now I am up for a item request system. Lots of the gripe is around jewelry or armour. Maybe a place where individuals can list their needs and crafters can read what they want. They crafter can then contact them and everyone can be happy.
Lets not get lost in what is or isnt player interactions. Going to a single search source for vendors will hurt player interaction. The degree or how much exists now is irrelevant.
Bottom line... put in a vendor search and I know for sure the good stuff would be sucked down at 5:51 am to be put on a LUNA vendor andt 6:00 am so when you wake up... you can find those items on 1 vendor for 5x as much.
In all interests
If someone can explain to me how a player with 1 billion gold couldnt sign on a buy up 20 of the hot item, please do.
If word comes out that blue diamonds are hot... How would you stop Billionaire McNair from buying up every blue diamond around or other resources because they get the info first? You can't.
Anyway... why not do a PLAYER ITEM REQUEST SEARCH. Players can put in what they need or want to buy. Players can log in and contact them.
So what if he buys them? If he wants to recall around and buy them all...then what? The ones selling are going to get their items sold...the price will rise, more people will be interested in getting them...there will be more of it at higher prices and eventually Mr Billionaire will get bored of the game as his profit margin will dwindle.
yes, a vendor seach who will include all vendors will be great!
Actually the only interaction is when you go ask at luna bank for an item and the only answer is a guy who ask 10 times the value of that item or try to scam you in any way...
So UP for vendor search and that will reduce scam
Link vendor ads to bulletin boards for additional cost. Auto-bump top sellers. Its fair, since you may use it or not use it. You still allowed to drop runes/books yourself or cast gates.
You've lost me on this point. If I have 20 items for sale and someone buys them at the price I've put them on a vendor, what do I care that he is going to resell them at a higher price in Luna? I've sold the item and that is why it was on the vendor.
I mostly use the search sites to price my items to be the lowest. If someone else can buy my items and sell them for a profit, then great for both of us! I would rather have a quick sale and put something else on the vendor.
What I see a shard-wide vendor search system doing is making the out of town remote vendor sites viable again, and lowering both the vendor rental price and item prices in Luna.
Mr. Billionaire would buy all the t-maps before the t-map publish went in. He would then sell them for 100k Lvl 6 and 75k lvl 5 once publish hits and demand is high. He would make a lot of money and sell out. Those poor vendors that didnt have the info would be out. Those individual wanting to buy maps the day of the changes would have to pay 5x the amount.
Mr Billionaire sells them and makes the profit and moves on to something else while the tmaps begin to drop in price an settle.
You dont have to agree with me. Think about it.
Mr. B isnt buying random items. He is buying with knowledge.
Then you really haven't built relationships with merchants. Its not hard. Go to LLTS crafter day. Youll find everything you need.
You really think the guy with a shack in the forest is going to price his item for 100k when he does a search and sees the average price is 500k. You really think the guy with gold is NOT going to buy up the lower priced hot stuff and xshard it or raise the price.
Instead of having Luna in the walls of luna, you going to create a luna without boundaries. Im not talking recall scrolls and potion kegs.
For jewelry and armour I could go with a search system. Everything else nah.
You thinking recalls and potion kegs and stuff not in tremendous demand.
Im talking new items, event items, resources that become in demand because of patching, etc.
Blackrock merchants return to give out rewards. VENDOR SEARCH B-Rock at 5:51 am and a guy buys it all.
Demons attack LUNA. Vendor search all demon slayers.
White Pearl with patch now creates an invisibility wand. Someone snags all the white pearl.
Now over time after the prices are gouged theyd settle.
I dont really care. I would love a way to search items and resell them for profit.
Its not going to lower Luna prices. Here we go again. There are tons of open spots in luna for free vendors or cheap vendors. They arent filled.
VENDOR SEARCH... scarf up hot items. PUT THEM IN LUNA.
How does that reduce price?
Those people wouldn't really have been selling their maps anyway and that kind of buying and selling is a GOOD thing.
Though what on earth would mr billionaire want with that crappy profit margin anyway?
This idea gets my vote. I remember when I played Everquest 2 with my friend for a 14 day free trial: they had an NPC you could go to for buying/selling items from players. It was so easy and cool.
I'm not saying get rid of player vendors, just impliment something like this along with the system that's in place already. This would help out players that don't have a house or vendor to sell stuff on. Plus, not all houses are in places that are safe to shop (such as high spawn areas like swamps and forests).
It would also make shopping much easier. Simply put a Merchant Trading Company in each city with an NPC. All items for sale (from each player that has an item for sale) could be bought from any NPC merchant in any city, on any facet, for the amount specified by the seller.
Raven, your entire "So-andso will buy up all of an item and hoard it to sell at inflated prices" simply will not work unless it's a NON-SPAWNING item in the first place. So what if he buys up all of the Blue Diamonds available this week, as soon as he puts them up at an absurd price, everyone else can get more and put them up at a lower price.
The dynamic is constant.
For example, in WoW's auction house, I could buy up all of a given resource... say... copper bars, then turn around and set my own "floor price". Sure that might work for the night or maybe if I'm dilligent, the week, but it will NEVER remain constant because there is NOTHING keeping people from mining up and selling their own stocks and undercutting my sales. Unless I had unlimited funds (rendering the need to use the auction house or vendor system moot), and unlimited time to keep tabs on the AH, there's no feasible way to "corner the market" on any given item or resource.
A vendor search system or other style of centralizing commerce in the game would be a GREAT addition to UO. Right now we have the first step of it with global chat (I've made a LOT off of simply having a resource available to sell and being fast at replying to calls to buy X at Y gold), but the ability for people OUTSIDE of Luna to compete in the vendor marketplace via a search system is the next step, and it should be able to be done WITHOUT going to a questionable 3rd party website.
Back in the days of "He whose houses on all shards got burned and was hung in effigy", other people on my shard couldn't keep ingots in stock more than an hour, before his bot went around and bought every ingot they had, to restock his own store for 3 times as much. Leather's much easier to come by, yet he did it as well, eventually running up leather prices into the 300k+ per 1000 barbed range.
Only his removal from the game allowed people to start selling ingots and leather at more sane prices, and it took time for the prices to start falling (some tried to keep charging the inflated prices, others were afraid he'd sneak back in, and even more had thrown their hands up in disgust and left).
The only way, temporarily, to shield your shop from his predations when this was going on was to locate somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and only tell people by word of mouth - but he'd still eventually find you and start buying you out for his 200%+ marked up vendor restock.
The idea of a shard-wide vendor search sounds nice, but it CAN and WILL lead to such abuses, simply because while resources DO respawn, there is time required to reacquire the items, and a lot of people don't feel like being the wholesellers supplying for someone monopolizing certain shard supplies.
That is a problem. But because someone is using an illegal program isn't a reason to stop providing benefits for the rest of the players. The bot-runners and 3rd party cheaters need to get banned. NOT to make improvements because it might get abused by cheaters is a poor excuse, one excuse I hope the Developers are smart enough not to ever use.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Current Senario -
Luna merchants buy goods from non-Luna vendors for 10gps then resell on their Luna vendors for 20gps.
With Shard Search -
non-Luna vendors can now sell their goods for 15gps, since Luna vendors no longer have such a great advantage.
1. non-Luna vendors can sell their goods for a fairer price
2. people can buy goods for a lower price and not be ripoffed by Luna merchants
3. easier for new starting players to sell things and not get ripoffed at banks
4. More people will be encouraged to sell things -> better for the game
Doesn't completely work like that. Buying for 15 selling for 20 yea. But I also make a habit from buying from those luna merchants that sell lower than going price and pricing them higher. So the shard wide search will allow me to find everyone that sells lower and buy them all out in moments. My only competition is all the other resellers that try to get there before I do. Still is my competition now as well most of us know each other either by seeing there character or by talking to them so it's friendly competition most of the time. Should of seen auctions thats where it gets ugly. I just can't compete at all when a dupe comes along from messed up code or intentional coding from the dev.
Second point people will get riped of even if they priced ornys at 50 gold pieces cause someone somewhere is selling it at 25 gold and the person who aquired it spent 4 weeks to make 50 gold. It also all depends on the funds people have and willing to pay. For example I would buy a house teleporter for 50mil now if I needed one. When it fiirst came out I would bought it for 80 mil anything lower than that would be a deal. Someone with only 80mil in there account will feel riped of if they bought it for that amount but someone with considerably more than 80 mil will see it as a deal.
Third point. Luna is not closed of to anybody. A starting player can get a luna vender easily. There is so many empty spots there and all i pay for rent is 20k per week. If you join certain guilds you get spots for free. So it's far from closed of to the very rare few starting players. By the way I havent met a true newbie in years. Just returning players and fake newbies. I think true newbies will be too busy trying to get there first gm skill before they can ever get anything to sell. If they want they can fill special orders for me I'll pay them well if I found one.
Last point. encouragement of selling comes with making money of your sells. You want to sell it for as high as you can. Not many items are left that is worth the trouble to sell these days. Everyone can make there own high power suits, resources are used less. Selling things people will pay only 50 gold for is a waste of time. People can actually count the number of things that is worth to sell out there unlike the old days where everything was worth something. Thats why you only see those same things over and over on venders and many merchants have being discourage and stop selling. Even left the game all together.
Anyway thats how we see it.
Believe it or not, this idea would help build relationships much better than the current situation. If there were an in-game search engine that helped players find and browse vendors anywhere in the lands of Britannia, then they could locate and shop at vendors that no one may know about or realize even existed. I find vendors out in the boonies that I would have never found if I hadn't been randomly running around doing miscellaneous tasks. Ma'am, this idea is profound. With the current situation, the big wigs get to control the in-game economy with their fancy Luna houses that hardly anyone can get and the "other" search engines profit from. Also keep in mind that those "other" search engines usually only show the vendors in Luna so anyone who has a vendor outside of Luna is basically SOL. (sh%t outta luck)
I thought anyone, no matter shard or location could submit their shop to those (Illegal?) search engine sites.
I don't know this for sure because I don't want my shop listed.
I don't want to be a wholeseller but I price considerably less than Luna.
I price this way for my customer base who most of them know me, talk to me, ask me for things, expect and are given a fair price, who when they walk in the shop and see me stocking know they have a chance of being handed a free item or two.
Now in the above comments I saw a "buy" vendor idea that I could get behind.
Also I could get behind an ingame search engine of sorts.
If the information of average price, median price, low price, high price, amount available on the shard vendors were available somehow without the specifics of where or who.
Not sure how this could be implemented, but imagine you click on an item in a player vendor, and instead of just buy on the menu you have menu items to get the information above.
This would give the player (the shopper) one of the best things that UO offers, CHOICE. Do I take this item even though its price falls under the category of "gouging"? Do I expend the effort to find a better vendor with better prices? Do I spend the time and go out and get this myself rather than buy from a vendor? Do I buddy up with a crafter or someone who can get this item for me cheaper? etc.
It would also make the player (the vendor) have choices to. Do I price gouge and put the price as 5 times the shard average? Is there so many of these items available that it isn't worth my time? Do I take the time to hunt down that low price vendor and buy him out before I put this on the vendor?
Just a thought.
I have a Luna home with three vendors. Some stuff on them is wildly profitable. I must say I do enjoy not having to work too hard for sales, being in a prime location.
That said I would welcome the competition of having a global trading index where all vendors are listed. Luna prices are silly and self-perpetuating.
However, I do feel that something would be lost if we took out vendors entirely. As handy as global chat is, I still prefer onscreen interaction with others. Vendors draw visitors to your establishment or home, and encourage travel. Also they can be decorative and creative in their own right.
I agree with you in part. All vending of hot or key items are typically spawning. The gold is made by scarf them up at patch time etc. The search doesnt mean that forever, someone corners a market. It means the first player up with gold and information can snag the hot stuff for the week.
They grab it. Resell it. Your right with time more spawning brings in more items but the profit has been reaped.
That is so what if 1 million more diamonds come in 3 weeks. The profit was made 2 weeks ago.
Everyone things it will create a more balanced system it wont. Yes it will be easier if your looking for jewelry etc.
This is a good example. This isnt about recall scrolls or tables.
Listen... Soon we will have Mag being rebuilt. Most likely, and I am already speculating buying 60k wood for 2 gold a board... because I think some sort of donation system will happen.
I buy my boards for 120k, I figure I will be able to sell them for 500k when the Mag thing happens. Or turn them in... whatever. Merchant speculation..
Imagine there is a vendor search system.
Mag goes live.
At 5:51 am someone posts here on stratics all the items that get you the most donation points.
BANG. VENDOR SEARCH... 1 player scarfs down all the items for turn in at 6am when Atlantic goes live.
Now the same guy or gal is off work. At 6:30 am does the same thing. At 6:45 does the same thing.
You and I are at work. We come home at 5 pm and have a small supply of donation items. We go to VENDOR SEARCH. NADA around.
So you say so what we can cut more wood. True... But the wood keeps getting bought for a week. The same guy gets the points, gets the new items, sell them for 100's of mill.
In a week or 2 the new items are satuated. The wood comes into play on vendors... Yeah you get your stuff then. (I ALWAYS wait to weeks before I buy new stuff). However, in that 2 weeks... the vendor search guy get loaded.
Right taking the illegal program and making it part of the game is like cutting off your nose because its blocking your face.
Allow one player the ability to acces every vendor in UO at one time and it will lead to abuse.
My vote is to create a MERCHANT REQUEST systme where players can list what they need to UO WORLD. Anyone that has a vendor on their house can click their house sign and search requests.
Dude no body wastes their time with recalls. Or for profits that can be made killing monsters.
You just dont get it. Thats fine.
It is easy to sell things now. Set up a vendor. Go to luna drop a rune.
How much easier can it get.
You really thing a search engine. That tracks 250,000 pieces of garbage is what people want.
Elite stuff, hot stuff, stuff that makes profit. Easily abused.
Exactly. I love when people say Luna prices are this. I buy my stuff off luna vendors and resell on my luna vendors. I stock my Ter Mur vendors with stuff I find in game.
I also love people think you cant get a vendor in luna.
we all are ignoring the fact that there are a LOT of vendor search around the web and they list almost only LUNA VENDORS.
So, the only difference with a legal one, is the fact that every vendor will be listed instead of the only ones located in luna, and this would be much fair for all the vendor owners.
You can't just be a smartass and take some completely unrelated subject and compare it to UO.
How can people be against cheating when almost everyone uses a tool that requires cheating.
THAT won't work at all. Many players, like me, don't have vendors at my house.
I just don't buy your abuse arguments at all.
I am Opposed to this idea/option. I could not care less what other MMORPG's do. Ultima Online is Unique, and uniquely superior in many ways to all the others.
What I would rather see is the following:
All Crafting Equipment (Looms, Spinning Wheels, Forges, Anvils, etc) in Houses become deco only and unusable.
All Crafting may only be performed at "in town" crafting areas such as the Brit Forge in NorthWest Brit, the areas surrounding Luna Bank, etc. This causes our Players to come together as Crafter and Customer, as Mentor and Student, etc.
Disable Vendors for they promote "remote selling" where seller and buyer rarely if ever see one another. Either let the Crafting Areas also serve as "Commerce" Centers where wares may be offered and bought and sold, or designate one or more Commerce Centers per Town where sellers may bring Items for sale, or promote Auction Houses per Shard to promote Commerce.
Ultima Online is designed for massively multi-player participation and interaction. Its Design needs to promote, encourage, and cause Players to seek out one another.
I AM NOT saying that it should be impossible for Players to be "loners" or to enjoy a "solo" style of play. However, that should be the more difficult path than that of the community participant.
These are a few of my thoughts. I invite yours as well.
Lord Elladan of Trinsic/Baja
You dont get it either.
Sure legalize illegal searches by making it part of the game so the honest player has an option.
That is the most stupid post I have read in a long while.