1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice
  3. The Broadsword team is seeking alternative castle designs! Learn more and discuss here!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Publish 97 is currently on TC1! They are currently focusing on the pet customization aspect of the pet revamp. Head to TC1 and send in your feedback or discuss here!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Broadsword is hosting a 20th Anniversary Party for UO this September! Learn more here. Will you be there, Guest?
    Dismiss Notice
  6. A new State of Stratics is up. Check it out here!
    Dismiss Notice

NEWS In Testing: Combat Changes, Doom Artifact Upgrade.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Giggles, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
    Administrator Moderator Professional Stratics Veteran Social Media Liaison Campaign Supporter The Squirrel Empire

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,286
    Likes Received:
    1,817
    I hope you have all had a wonderful holiday season!

    Now we have important topics to continue discussing regarding the proposed PvP based changes in an upcoming publish. This will be a continuation to a thread that unfortunately had to be locked due to a few parties consistently going off topic, or PvPing with words among themselves. This led to the thread losing its value and productive nature.

    We want and need to reopen this topic for the community, and hope this thread can be useful for that. Please note…. This is not a thread to come duel with words or discuss how mighty you or anyone else is. Honestly… nobody cares, and we really need productive conversation, as these changes can and will impact the entire PvP community.

    This thread will be monitored, and people who continue to go off topic, troll, or break our Stratics based rules, will be removed from this thread discussion temporarily or permanently.

    The current proposed changes can be found here. In Testing: Combat Changes, Doom Artifact Upgrade – Ultima Online

    Please discuss this matter as @Bleak has been actively reviewing the current concerns and feedback that has been posted here by the community

    Thank you!
     
    Hunter Perilous, cobb and Merlin like this.
  2. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    382
    I hope we can stay on topic this time instead of talking about issues that are not listed in the current proposed combat changes.

    The changes look good. My only complaint is the 5% damage increase for Warriors Gifts, which would be barely noticeable. Maybe it can be increased to 15%.
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,386
    Likes Received:
    5,938
    One thing I think would help the DEV's is to let them know what weapons work and what don't and why in regards to usefulness... and why some of the items in Doom would be worthless no matter what they added to them.

    Lets take the Bows...

    Frostbringer: Pro's are it has 100% cold and 40DI....
    Con's well lets start with it's just a regular bow... sort of ok in PvP sometimes... but for PvM it's not really useful... no Armor Ignore most archers use the Composite or a Yumi. Secondly it doesn't have any SSI ... this makes it rather useless and NO Mana Leech so again as a PvM weapon it has no use... Too slow.


    Dryad Bow: Pro's has good DI and SSI... but why it wastes things giving you some resists??? not sure. Skill bonus isn't bad especially for newer players...
    Con's: Again it's a bow... not a composite/yumi... second again no Mana Leech... really making it not that useful at all for PvM. A bow is ok with Mortal Strike but not really that useful at all for PvM...

    Both could use HCI or something even ... but really if you want anyone to use it then special moves need to either be improved or well.. changed or it needs to be a weapon people actually use.


    Maybe also you might consider making a "gargish" version with some throwing weapons and not being into gargoyles I couldn't really say what one would be the one of choice. But I'm sure someone else would know.
     
  4. Great DC

    Great DC Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    318
    REMOVE TACTICS REQUIREMENT!!!!!
     
    Dantes, Cutter, Feanaro and 4 others like this.
  5. PaithanTheElf

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    274
    Keeping the same changes as before xmas doesn't make them any better.
     
  6. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    moving shot nerf:
    the problem was with 100% fire dmg bows hitting cursed and corpse skinned targets for insane amounts of damage on the run. making moving shot hit for physical damage only took care of that problem. no hci penalty needed!

    warrior's gift:
    I like the 5 hci + 5 dci. the 5 di is pretty irrelevant in my opinion, replace it with 10 ssi. This is from a Siege Perilous perspective where it is a lot harder to get enough ssi. Basically you have to put it on your weapon because you can only bless one item and you will sooner or later loose your suit. having 10 ssi available from warrior's gift would improve things by a lot!
    Seeing how in the beginning the lvl 3 gave an extra 20 hp, maybe we could also get 20 stamina increase instead of the 10 ssi bonus. Reasons are the same as above for Siege Perilous.
     
  7. quovadis

    quovadis Visitor

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    9
    remove tactics requirement,keep 30 sdi for pure mage
    remove Parry to Focus Spec restriction list its not the good ways for fixing parry
     
  8. Swordsman

    Swordsman Adventurer
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    19
    the +5 Damage increase has very little improvement. The SSI +10 is constructive idea. Perhaps an additional requirement of Dex 90+.

    By the way, the melee warrior has difficulty to survive a few hits from the boss, such as the roof encounter. I suggest to have 20% PVM damage reduction if warrior is wearing metal armors like Plate mail. I knew the tamers with GD will work well, but, I think other classes should have similar chances to complete the quest.
     
  9. Spock's Beard

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    I guess if the recipes drop from the gauntlet that's kind of a reason to go down there... I don't know. Do people who've seen the new artifacts think anyone will really want them? Or are they more joke items visibly designed by people who don't play the game? Because this game is really bad about that kind of thing.
     
  10. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,690
    Likes Received:
    3,053
    I was really hoping that parry mastery would have offered some pvm damage reduction. :(
     
  11. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,690
    Likes Received:
    3,053
    Don't know if any changes were made in this update as they didn't list them in the update (why I don't know) but if they are the same as the ones before the holidays then a few were ok, and more than a few were fairly limited in use.
     
  12. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Governor Campaign Patron UWF

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    2,748
    I agree. I originally liked the +15 over the cap hit point increase.

    My alternative suggestion would be to add 10 Strength instead of the 5% Damage Increase. There aren't enough good items with good strength boosts. It would give a moderate hit point increase and help out a stat that is often forgotten. 15% DI wouldn't be bad either.

    I'm not sure how I feel about 10% SSI. If they were to go the SSI route, probably just 5% would be suffice.
     
  13. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    go to TC and look at them...to be honest I am not impressed by them for the very reason mentioned above...they are simply not viable options for either PvP or PvE.
    The more I think about it the more I actually like to have 5 hci 5 dci and 20 stamina for lvl 3. even 10 stamina would be awesome.
     
  14. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    I think warriors gift can be completely scratched and re-worked. If you're not already fitting max hci/dci/ssi/hpi in a suit you're doing something wrong. Giving those benefits to the current meta make no difference. Can you utilize it to make your suit better? Yes, but how does it make sense to make your suit better when you're going to just be penalized in your dps for being a dexxer...

    We're having a conversation about balancing the current meta and it seems the main topic is archers. So we are going to nerf archers only to allow them to make a potentially better suit? How does that make any sense?

    I'm glad we're having this conversation, but let's at least have a rational conversation.
     
  15. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652

    In regards to the artifacts there are 2 items that have been released that are going to be VERY sought after in regards to PvP...not sure you are looking at the same artifacts. Might want to look again.

    Why would you want stamina inc when you are being penalized for having it should you decide to use a weapon that is now nerfed based on the new SSI dmg calc?? That makes no sense
     
  16. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    Well it's been a while. All I remember was that the new hit spell sounded as bad as splintering but when I checked the weapon that had it I wasn't worried anymore because I thought it didn't have the specials and other important mods to go along with it. I'll definately have look again though.

    good point. I should have mentioned that I am also not a big fan of that change. But even with this change implemented wouldn't people still want to swing their bows at 1.25 or at least 1.5 over having increased damage?
     
  17. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    The AI cap has been dropped to 30. In order to achieve that dmg you need 180 stam and with 45ssi, or 150 stam with 60 ssi. What's the point of swinging at 1.25 if you're not even able to hit the AI cap? Or you drop down 1 tick, to 1.5 and you will hit the cap very easily. What all of this basically did was penalized players gear in order to reduce dmg. It worked, but it's a silly concept. They decided to give us this ridiculous gear only to penalize us for using it. I mean, wouldn't it make the most sense to be able to use every item to it's full potential? You can hit 1.25 seconds, but we are going to allow someone who swings at a slower rate to do more damage...
     
    Merus likes this.
  18. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,598
    Likes Received:
    585
    Warrior's Gift seems kinda useless to me. In any shard but Siege every warrior should already be capped in all of those stats.
     
    DJAd likes this.
  19. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    382
    Are the new hit properties going to on on the new artifacts only, or will they have a chance to spawn on other items as well?
     
  20. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    35
    I think that if the moving shot was an issue due to fire damage on the bows themselves, than keep the current system in play and just make all moving shot damage be one type ( physical) I know this was proposed, just not sure if it was changed or not. Honestly, this game has drastic knee jerk reactions to problems. I truly hope that this gets tested, examined, and tested again.
     
  21. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    It seems like you are just coming into a conversation that has been going on for more than a month. Everything that is currently implemented on TC is posted on UO, and it is all based on this conversation. I suggest going and reading the thread that @Merlin decided to lock (still have no reason or explanation as to why) to get caught up on what's current

    In Testing: Combat Changes, Doom Artifact Upgrade – Ultima Online
     
  22. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    35
  23. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    382
    Definitely agree. There might have been a lot of things people disagree on, but this is not one of them.
     
  24. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    382
    Looking over the new artifacts now. It seems The Deceiver is in need of some swing speed. Also the extra resists on Ring of Primal Consumption seems like a bad choice. Most people have more than enough resists on their suits these days, so it would be wasted mods.
     
  25. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    @Bleak

    Could we get a little clarification here because it seems like you wanted to let us have a lower requirement than what is currently on TC...

    In Testing: Combat Changes, Doom Artifact Upgrade – Ultima Online
    Weapon Special Move Update: Updated 12/19
    • 30 Tactics & 70 Weapon Skill are required for Primary Moves
    • 60 Tactics & 90 Weapon Skill are required for Secondary Moves
    Ultima Online
    The current change is a compromise which allows access to weapon special moves at 30 Tactics and 30 Weapon Skill for primary moves and 60 Tactics and 60 Weapon Skill for secondary moves.
     
  26. cholupa

    cholupa Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    32
    Can we please get rid of the Tactics requirement? I thought this time around things were supposed to be different, and the devs were supposed to listen to player feedback. Literally nobody wants the requirement left in and is not good for diversity
     
  27. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    382
    I think the formula is wonky and counter intuitive, but other than that I think it's ok. It's a bit weird that your damage goes down if you have more ssi. Maybe it would be better to have a flat damage reduction for ranged weapons in pvp without factoring in swing speed.
     
  28. Spock's Beard

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Really wish they'd just retire the old gauntlet drops and make new ones. There's gonna be a moderate market for the better recipes for a while, those recipes will be crafted with dusty piles of pre-existing artifacts, and that will be that.
     
    Dantes, OREOGL, THP and 1 other person like this.
  29. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    I look at it like this. They came up with a new loot pack and didn't really test it because getting a sample size large enough to see how fast top tier loot would drop was probably an unreachable thing due to their limited staffing. They then failed to see what items were going to become readily available and how significant an impact it was to the crafting community. Now instead of just bringing everything up to match the current meta they are limiting it and saying that their needs to be sacrifices made. To me, that is a band aide solution that makes no sense. In regards to masteries, sure, real skill can out way modded. But in regards to the skill's natural ability there should no longer be any restrictions between real skill vs modded skill. It's archaic and doesn't fit the current meta. Tactics and Bushido are two great examples of effectively canceling out the current loot. Add to that real skill requirement for special moves and we are looking at templates not being able to diversify, but also nullifying content that they created. It really makes no sense.

    The dmg reduction calc is following this same logic. We have gear that they created that continually makes irrelevant templates become insanely relevant. 4/6 chiv is a great example, but really the meta of the archer is the best. Archers took skill to play prior to the endless mana and capped mods. Now we have random players that have little to no skill just spamming AI and getting kills consistently. That's great for the novice and probably made PvP extremely fun, but when you put it into the competitive base it makes everything out of balance.

    I think they did enough with the moving shot becoming physical, along with reducing ranged Ai to 30.
     
  30. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,386
    Likes Received:
    5,938
    Well.... they probably have no clue where in the strings of code the doom artifacts are... so they aren't going to change them because it would take them years to find them.
     
  31. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    If free servers can easily manipulate game content and turn off code to make era relevant servers, I'm sure it really wouldn't be that complex of a task to do...
     
  32. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Britain [BRIT]

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    3,683
    :facepalm:
    Do we really need to blithely sprint down this faux-gilt garden path? :bdh:

    Freeshards do NOT use the same backend that UO production does, its not even the same codebase and hasn't been for many years.

    Real UO isn't something you can just turn code off and on willy-nilly, its far too cancerously crosscircuited and interdependant. They can't 'rollback' the servers to some nostalgic pre-Pub 16 Nirvana without halting the already strained work on the eleventy-billion half-baked projects they're already fumbling with. Then pretty much starting from scratch. Since it is highly unlikely be the economic boon many allege it to be, its simply not going to happen. Do we need yet another dud similar to Siege/Mugen? (Note: pre-Mythic server backups no longer exist according to Draconi.)

    And before anyone goes off on how the "freeshards have managed" it, you have to realize it took them a good long while to accomplish and they are doing it as a hobby - not as a job working in a psychotically myopic corporate structure. They also get to use 21st century codebases for their servers, only having to manage the old client (which they have successfully managed to make their *****, while EA/Mythic/BS have so far struggled to comprehend).

    Let's allow this dead horse to rest in peace.
     
  33. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,343
    Likes Received:
    679
    The doom artifacts should be reworked to give PvM people better stats and stuff to help kill boss encounters and the PvP people should look to VvV artifacts for their bits to build a PvP suit
     
    CovenantX, Swordsman and Max Blackoak like this.
  34. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,690
    Likes Received:
    3,053
    I think 20 might be a bit much, but 10 would be a nice worthwhile boost. The damage increase is generally pointless because it's so easy to get to cap elsewhere.
     
    Max Blackoak likes this.
  35. Grazz't1970

    Grazz't1970 Journeyman

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2014
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    126
    "The PvP people..." Soooo judgemental...
     
  36. Swordsman

    Swordsman Adventurer
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    19
    Agree, the PvP keeps dragging the improvement on the PVM. This loop existed for many years. Friends does not come back as changes are so little. It time to make big changes. PvM should have some exaggerated changes to give attraction and excite players.
     
  37. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    382
    Some good points here. Hopefully they won't add more weapons such as the Halawa's Hunting bow, where the Velocity cancels out the Slayer property.
     
    Keith of Sonoma likes this.
  38. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,386
    Likes Received:
    5,938
    Agreed. Seems to me they just don't have a clue what actual properties we consider a "must" on items.

    Like I constantly see Jewelry dropping on stuff that doesn't know what it wants to be... It wants to be mage jewelry sometimes with 1/3 or something but then it adds things I don't really need as a mage with stuff like DI or SSI or some weapon skill or something... Generally for mage Jewelry I'm looking for 1/3 1/2 at least with SDI maybe some MR or something could even have some resist on it... but mostly anything that will use less mana boost my spells or help my defense, I often don't need LRC on Jewels since I usually have 100% built into my suit. maybe add to my skills which are usually something with taming, cartography or even fishing... or barding... in rare cases archery... but not often do I mix weapon skills with magery because if you do one or the other is going to be "weak".... there aren't enough slots to make you effective at either if you do.

    On my dexers/archers etc... I'm often looking for things to help me hit the max for HCI/DCI, SSI and DI... I'm not at all interested in having LRC on there what do I need that for??? But more often than not it's on there.

    More often than not I get a piece of Legendary Jewelry and it's got such a wild combination of crap on it that no one would use it for anything and all it's good for is unraveling... If I ever get one that has properties on it that I think Might be good it's either Cursed or Antique... either of which I just won't use.
     
  39. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    I would suggest sending me stats on all legendary jewels you would consider unraveling based upon your statement here. Because of all the things you list not wanting on a jewel, I see and highly valuable.
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  40. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    19,386
    Likes Received:
    5,938
    Probably kill you to know all the crap I've unraveled.
     
  41. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes Received:
    9
    So many changes that make my templates and suits almost useless.

    I like it, it might make me log in again :D
     
  42. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,137
    Likes Received:
    9
    The things I've heard people unravel because they have no idea on whats good and whats not makes my blood pressure rise. Then there are the people who unravel things that I find valuable that are useless to them because they have that perfect piece....
     
  43. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    448
    Mysticism Nether Blast correctly damages targets within a one tile radius on the blast. Reduced casting time from 2.25 to 2 seconds.

    What is nether blast? is this some kind of new spell?
     
  44. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    8,200
    Likes Received:
    3,894
    Kind of new. Its from the mastery.
     
  45. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    652
    Really?? It's a mastery and is completely useless
     
  46. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    448
    ah yes thanks i remember, i tried my hardest to work out why anyone would use it in any situation on any template pvp or pvm and failed miserably to find a use for it.
     
  47. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    382
    Nether Blast can be used for RP purposes
     
  48. PaithanTheElf

    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    653
    Likes Received:
    274
    You guys are going down the right path with Holy Fist... but can you fix something that makes no sense.... For Magery to be effective you need to curse someone down to 60 for max damage.. For archery hitting does more based on resist etc. Holy Fist max damage is capped at 35. But it can hit 33 at 70 energy. Can you fix it to where it hits 35 at 60 energy and scale based off of that? That fix would go a long way to getting Holy Fist correct. Along with the slow down. You are half way there..

    @Bleak
     
  49. Bleak

    Bleak UO Software Engineer
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    826
    I will be on TC1 by Yew Gate for the remainder of the day for those who would like to chat.
     
  50. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,896
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Do we have a link to what the new artifacts are? When I try and go to the previous pages I get a page not found error.