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In with cursed arties/Out with Faction items?

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Kat, Mar 16, 2010.

?

Do you support an increased Cursed Artie drop and doing away with Faction Arties?

  1. Yes

    65.8%
  2. No

    34.2%
  1. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    This would include Doom Arties, Replica Items and ML arties...Maybe some others. Perhaps all of them cursed?

    Feel free to discuss the finer points of the idea in this thread, as I am sure we all have an opinion, but the key question for this particular fact finding mission is this: Would you support an increased Cursed Artie drop and doing away with Faction Arties?
     
  2. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    *IMO* (So someone doesnt jump my ass......)

    Keep the faction arties *And* introduce Cursed Arties.. otherwise if we're all running cursed arties (w/o Faction Arties) Theres not much point in factions other than being able to attack everyone..

    In which case.. All the reds would be factioned.. and All the Blues wouldnt be..

    'IF' This was implimented (Keeping Faction and Adding Cursed) There would be a risk/reward to running factioned..

    You Run the Risk of being freely attackable Anywhere therefore you get the reward of having Slightly Better gear.

    And that.. is my opinion..
     
  3. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    As I have said many times, I came to Siege before Faction Arties and all of the pvpers had on uber suits!!!

    Spirit of the Totem, CC, RBC, Stormgrips, Orni and I could go on and on...

    The ony thing faction items did was make the stuff easier to get, thats all.

    Funny fact, on prodo...with insurance, the pvp faction people complain the all the trammies join factions just to wear the gear. I wonder if we had insurance here if so many people would be againt these items...hmm...makes ya think.
     
  4. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not so much against faction items, as I am fed the **** up with listening to you hot shots pee yourselves and cry about losing them... or someone not selling it back FAST enough... or not having ALL of your items bagged up and sold back together. As if you have any right to them in the first place.

    Some are more guilty than others, but yeah... I read this idea from Speedy in another thread. I think its a great idea and better for the shard as a whole.
     
  5. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    I support this:

    Turn on cursed doom(including inquis, Titans, and Zyronic) and tokuno items, and increase the drops of ML, replica, and SoT's.

    But keep faction arties.

    This way, faction artifacts are better, but not by a ton. They just have some resists added to them, a MR here or there, etc. It levels the playing field, while still giving the faction players a bit of an advantage, for risking stat loss, and being out of the battle for twenty minutes.

    If I used just cursed artifacts on a mage currently, and ML ones, say a set up like:

    Cursed Orny
    RBC
    Aegis
    Arcane
    Fey Legs
    Quiver
    0/3 with DCI/SDI
    Totem of Void
    Gorget/sleeves/gloves MR/LMC with imbuing

    Hell, I've still got 2/6 cast, 60+ DCI depending on ring, 35LMC without even the leather armor, up to 12SDI for the ring, etc etc.

    The problem isn't that the faction arties are SO over powered. It is the fact they are SO available and "easy"* to get. There needs to be an avenue that PvPers outside of factions can take to get the same items. I'd really like to see people get behind this, because factions sucks now.

    Factions has become about using the items, not guarding the sigils, not defending your base, nada. I don't even like factions any more. If this was implemented, I assure you I would be out the day of, and give all my silver to true faction guilds like TnT and WCB, guilds that have been factions for some time.


    *Note: When I say getting them is easy, I mean easy with effort. I farmed up around 1m silver in a month... and it was "easy" but annoying, time consuming, and overall pretty awful.
     
  6. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    Kat, do you mind if I post a similar poll?
     
  7. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    You should start a thread... this one is complete fail.

    Faction items are here to stay.
     
  8. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    I have to say though, I also feel faction arties need to be cursed on Siege for this to be fair and balanced.
     
  9. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    They were not. All the elite were... everyone else was wearing crap. Just like before SA (cause I dunno about now.)
     
  10. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Id rather just remove the "owned by" crap cause we had a hero/evil dye system that worked similarly (IMO it worked better.)

    But like I said before.. we need to keep any suggestion simple. Having them overhaul our entire system is going to make it less likely that we'll see any change.

    Turning on ToTs, cursed arties and upping doom/peerless/paragon special drops would be the easiest way to approach this.

    The first two being 5 seconds of Dev time and the last.. maybe 5 minutes.
     
  11. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    I agree, keeping it simple is 99% of getting stuff changed, but paying 25k silver for an orny that can be blessed seems a bit iffy to me. I wouldn't care either way, I would just prefer it. Although most dexers bless their weapon, many mages bless that orny because it costs so damn much.
     
  12. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Reduce silver prices back to what they were before GoodGuy cried to the Devs. - fixt.
     
  13. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    I don't really like either option.

    The faction arties are too powerful. I'd like to see a method where we could turn them in for half the silver they originally cost and they would thus be removed from the server forever.

    Cursed arties are fun to hunt for, but again, some are too powerful.
     
  14. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    You realize they are only too powerful because only some people have them...right?
     
  15. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    Out with the faction items or turn off the character bound status on them. Siege has become waaaaaaaayyyyyy too trammelized as it is. I do have to say to those that have voted no in this poll, looks to me those are the ones that cannot, i repeat, CANNOT, compete without items. When these faction items were still in the "developement" stage, i was one of the first to say this would be the death of siege. Is this shard not "dead" enough for the "no" voters?
     
  16. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    Very true. Originally I was against faction arties but after reading alot of good points for having them like the ease of replacement,lower farming times and whatnot. i think they are a good thing and make it alot cheaper to participate in pvp. My opinions of faction arties have reversed and have to agree they are important and should stay.

    That being said,I like the cursed arty thing in order for non factioneers to have an even playing field. We would not be forced into hi end suits that get lost in a blink and take ALOT longer to replace than the faction counterpart. Especially for a guy like me......who`s gonna die fast and alot till I get schooled enough to stay alive.

    So to answer this question:
    I would support increased artie drops but I don`t support removing faction items. If your in factions and don`t mind the penalties.....they are there for you. If you are not in factions, you have a broader choice between arties and imbued things making it easier to come up with cheap equipment. I think we need both IMHO.

    Its easy to say..."well everyone just join factions" but speaking for myself....I freekin hate statloss. Take my stuff,dry loot and rezz kill but statloss is friggin lame and I hate it. I don`t think gimping factions is the answer,just need to pump up the non faction counterparts to even things up a lil.
     
  17. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    Tell ya what, I'll fight you in a pit. GM armor GM weapon. No pots, no apples. Hell, I won't even run parry. I win you stfu, you win I'll admit I can't compete without items. Sound good?
     
  18. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    I second that.
     
  19. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
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    My tens years of fighting without a crutch vs. you're newbieness...Your on all day i will wipe the floor with you! Hope u run with EZUO also LOL...I've been killen mages since this shard opened LOL...Oh since ur makin it Pre-AoS. No FC/FCR right? LOL nuub. stfu. you lose every damn time in the ring and anywhere else for that matter. Don't forget, im not the one that said i could fight without items. I dont need a crutch remember. You'll die i'll prolly use less than 20 bandaids LOL.
     
  20. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Who needs a crutch? Do you know who I am? This has nothing to do about a crutch, but recognizing the truth. The truth is, this game has become trammelized and will continue to. Either we ask that our shard be properly adapted to it or admit to ourselves that this shard will forever be broken.

    Thank you for demonstrating exactly why these discussions go no where.

    You tear down and build nothing.
     
  21. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Yes this would make it fair for all and also tweak the loot as many ask for.

    As long Factions artifacts goes away, I'm all for it.
     
  22. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Ok I need to call bullsheet!

    When I started here, before faction arties it was the same pvpers, most of the people in this thread never pvped...then or now.

    So let me get this correct, if faction atries go away, all of a sudden your all going to come out of the woodwork and fight every night? Please...why not pvp before faction arties?

    I am all for getting people back on Siege but enough with the witch hunt.

    The majority of people that have left over the last 2 months all used faction gear and If they came back they would put it right back on.

    The biggest problem with Siege is its refusal to move forward, stop fighting it and come along for the ride.

    So many people here are looking back then can't see right in front of them!
     
  23. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Tell me, why can't so called PvP'ers live without factions artifacts?
    Is it only fun when you win everytime? The same "PvP'ers" would will gank if they can't get upper stuff.

    Do you ever wonder what did happen to the RP, PvP guilds we had in the past? Shadowclan comes in mind.

    Someone had to beat them off the shard as they could not share the fun with them.

    Did you ever think about giving a PvM'er a fair fight? or at least let the fight a little longer or fight 2-3 non PvP'ers at the time and let them feel they almost had you before you drop them?

    I'm not yelling of you all, but some of you do not add much to the shard.
     
  24. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Since we're calling bull****... Start looking past the end of your nose and what is best for one group. Factioners should not have an advantage over other players. To argue otherwise, is ridiculous.

    I can and have accepted that we have an item based game, but with Imbuing and cursed arties, there isn't a need for the faction arties. Furthermore, look how many new faces [or at least ones you don't normally see on the field] showed up to fight at Brit graveyard when the faction arties were left out of the picture. Look at the bigger picture.
     
  25. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    Lose it easily I see. Pre-Aos is fine. No specials, dex at 100, pure warrior temp? Or Aos, fc/fcr vs specials and whatever. I'll leave that up to you.
     
  26. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    I cant speak as to what caused the RP guild to leave Siege, my guess it was the same thing that caused half of the people to leave UO. It was due to a game called WOW.

    You can trace the huge drop off right to the growth of WOW. In my 12 plus years of UO I have seen many games come and pull people away, EverQuest, Starwars and many more but the people aways came back, well the fact is the they didnt come back from WOW, they stayed hence the million plus player base WOW sports.

    To answer your question Freja, we tried a thing called server wars abour a year ago. TNT and JSV both quit factions and tried an old school guild war. Only a few other people joined, how come? To read this thread the shard would be going crazy without faction items... well we built it and No One Came. That is why I know first hand that this crap about faction gear it a witch hunt.

    As recently as a month ago I posted to try to shrink the shard and offered a Gm gear only fight night at the Brit graveyard, guess what no one came, why???

    Talk is cheap, when people can back up in game the crap they talk on the boards Siege will be a better place.

    And for the record the only PC game I have ever played is UO.
     
  27. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Kitty Kat, read my post below, maybe 5 new faces showed...weak at best!

    Same thing with server wars, no faction items and it was the same people.
    How come none of the non faction gear pvpers came out to fight. The server wars had many posts here on the boards yet the never caught on.

    I gave up my faction gear already and it failed...next!

    Fact is people are afraid to pvp and hide behind any excuse they can.

    Seacrest out!

    (kat ill speak with you in the hot date channel tonight) (grrr)
     
  28. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    "Peanut butter and jelly made me sick, so I will never eat a turkey sandwich again."


    Nothing you complain about has anything to do with factions.

    Want to talk about shadowclan orcs? How fun is it to RP an orc when the mask you wear puts you at a disadvantage. How fun is it to RP an orc when the suit you wear either makes you look like an orc, but sucks or is great but you look nothing like an orc?

    Pull your head out of the sand. Your not helping and your crusade against faction items is derailing the one thing you guys are trying to accomplish and that is to help the average players, non-factioners and what not.

    This is not about helping the PvMers, role players, non-faction players and new players... no, this is about screwing faction players.

    Maybe if I turn up the volume you people will finally get it.


    Faction items are here to stay
     
  29. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Five or so people, on a dead shard? Not too shabby. And I believe Kage was comlaining about 10 people ganking him. :)

    Anyway, people arn't afraid to PvP, they simply won't fight an unbalanced fight. NEXT!
     
  30. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    And why the population is leaving...
     
  31. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    No, it had to do with this guilds not playing for the loot but to share some fun. Sadly some of their enimies showed up in upper stuff and did not give them a fair fight. That could be ok, but they also had to grief loot them, even when they did not need their crappy items.

    I did PvP before we got Factions items and I did ok, when you keep in mind, I'm an old woman and a little slow and I never had upper gear. Sure there was some on the shard, who had upper stuff or run in ganks, but in most 1 vs 1, I would do ok. We had alot fighting on the road in Safe Haven and it was alot of fun, then we got factions items and even when I maybe would stay alive a while, I was not able to do much damage to this factions Gods and I gave up.

    TDO was a short time one of the 10 largest guilds, then some of the members wanted to join Faction to get this stupid items. It splitted my guild, they looked of the non factions part of the guild as a support guild, who did not PvP, even when we in the past had fighted side by side against our enemies.

    I don't want to go back to GM gear, we have imbuing now and if we could get better drop of curset artifacts, game would be more fair for all and would not split the shard as it do now.

    I miss PvP, but I really don't feel like PvP'ing vs Factions items, however I do look forward to test out my new suit, even when it most are builded for PvM.

    I believe, I'm not the only so called "Crafter" or "PvM'er" who miss being interrupted and have a little dance.

    Maybe more would be willing to PvP if they did feel they had a chance to at least try to fight back.
     
  32. Timothy_SP

    Timothy_SP Guest

    So were Blessed 7th Anniversary Items. Where are they now?
     
  33. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Maybe you should wait with raising your voice until you start playing the game again and know how the game is now.

    You are out of focus with the game, you need to get updated

    :lol:
     
  34. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    Its not that different, just good items are easier to get.
     
  35. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    Freja, no offense to you but....where are you? I have not seen your character in game in over a year. The only TDO I even see is Stardust, and sometimes Tina. I understand being against something based on principle, but do you realize lots of people on the shard LOVE the faction arties, but still want to see non factioners be more competitive?
     
  36. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    I am currently the Commanding Lord of The Council of Mages, and I agree whole heartedly about faction items. I don't use them, as I feel it gives an unfair advantage, just the same as someone running UO Assist and / or Vent, when attacking someone without those 3rd party crutches.

    The game is item based, sure... but it shouldn't be:

    Item + Skill vs. Faction Item + Skill + UO Assist + Vent + whatever hacks.
     
  37. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I'm Tina too, she may go more to town than Freja.

    Freja will be out getting seed, unraw items, imbuing resources, gems, other stuff for plant dye or out killing something else.
     
  38. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    But hiding, smoke bombs, surprise attacking.... all of these are ok?


    BR is right about one thing, SP is all about personal agenda.
     
  39. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    Actually most of the people on CRUS side weren't in JSV. They were every day regular pvmers (and a few rpers) In the end we added a few more bored pvpers who joined cause faction died during this server war.

    All in all I really could care less at the moment if faction items stay or go. But I really do feel that faction items cater to the more dedicated, hardcore pvper who knows how to make a template based almost totally on what advantages they get out of their faction gear.
     
  40. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    It appears he is right and your poll kinda proves it. Of course most players will vote for lots of cursed artifacts and even factioners support it because there is no tradeoff. The difference between your poll and mine is that you appear to be furthering your own agenda to keep faction items, otherwise there was no need for a second poll on the same topic.

    And before you say I'm doing the same, think again. I use them occasionally and a large number of my guildmembers use them, yet I'm here fighting for a more balanced playing field. A few of them are probably not very happy about it, but I can live with that.
     
  41. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Completely agree. Wow. That was spoken perfectly, sir.
     
  42. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Here's another tid bit. Before faction artifacts came out. The main pvp guilds were. JSV, TNT, TO/LOD, KOC. You did not see TDO, you did not see GIL nor C8V or any other role playing/supposed pvp guild. It was the main fighters, all of which were equipping the same items they are now.

    Before faction artifacts we all ran totems of void, fey legs, hearts of lions, spirit of totems and crimson with quivers of infinity. guess what we run now?? Yep. The same thing.


    All I'm saying is, faction artifacts encourages faction play. If you truly like to pvp then you'll join factions. If you want to fight sword to sword, you'll join factions and grab the cheap leet gear.

    If you don't want to join factions, your doing nothing but hurting yourself.

    Again, as BR has stated. Faction items are here to stay. They're not going anywhere. Also, someone mentioned something about 7th age items gone? They're not going, just lost the bless tag. BIG difference there.


    Freja, Kat, Sir Morder. You three are the only ones I see complaining on a constant basis about removing artifacts....let it be.
     
  43. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Just a random note here.. Heres the people voting Yes and No..


    Yes

    AndAndAnd, Bruin, Chardonnay, FrejaSP, insanepete, Kat, Krystal, Lorddog, Max Blackoak, nightstalker22, Sir Morder, Speedy Orkit, Syrus of Gahd, Timothy_SP, Troop

    ( 1 PvPer.. Speedy, All the rest of the people that are on this list Hardly or Never pvp. )


    No

    Black magick, CroakerTnT, Davy, Diablo FTW, Draxous, Freelsy, Mook Chessy, Scuzzlebutt, Vaelix

    (All PvPers)

    Im wondering why the People who never ever ever... PvP are always voting against things which mainly Impact pvp.
     
  44. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    You're right, but you're also wrong. You are correct that before faction artifacts, the only guilds to actively pvp were pretty much the current main pvp guilds/players. For lack of a better term, I'm just going to call you guys the 'pvp elitists'. But look even further back, to when non-pvp elitists took part in pvp. Remember the days when CWS, C8V, Orc, Und, KSS, KGB, VMP, LDH, KRT, B*M, MOM, and many many other non-pvp elitists used to pvp?

    Now I ask you, when did the non-pvp elitists stop pvp'ing? Around 2006, and what happened around 2006, the cursed artifacts. Yes, prior to faction arties, you factioners ran around in cursed arties. Due to the hero/evil faction dye, cursed arties were almost the same as faction arties. Get a orny, evil faction dye it, you've just guaranteed that only you or your faction-mates (or the other evil faction) can only ever use your gear. You could never find non-hero/evil dyed cursed gear for sale.

    And what would happen if a non-factioner went out and pvp'ed with regular cursed arties? The second we'd die, you'd loot us, dye our items, and we'd never again be able to pvp with them.

    As much as you want to admit it or not, factions have always had the ability to keep and retain the best gear for themselves, and it IS this ability that has destroyed pvp for the masses and restricted it to you 'pvp elitists'.

    At least with an ongoing cursed arty drop, if I die, lose my orny to a faction member, they loot it and dye it, I can still go out there and farm a new one.

    Once you allow casual and active pvp'ers to pvp on the same playing field, you'll see a lot more pvp'ers out there. Remember, on prodo shards the entire purpose of faction arties was to allow casual and active pvp'ers a chance to pvp without having to buy a 200 mil gold suit, did it work? Faction arties would have a much different effect on Siege where people can't go out and run the same suits as prodo's can that are non-faction arties. The problem is, it's probably too ****ing late since you've already driven off virtually all the casual pvp'ers out there, except for maybe 5.
     
  45. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Probably the same reason the people who voted "No" don't even play SP...Diablo, Draxous, Freelsy, Unforsaken, you...not unless you count logging in once every two weeks playing sp...

    Kinda ironic huh?

    What is even more puzzling to me is if you don't play SP why in the hell do you even post on the sp forums or even vote on anything to do with sp if all your gonna do is play your prodo shard come on these boards and cry and vote about something that has nothing to do with you anymore since you left sp, be it for another game or another server...

    Ya, truly ironic...
     
  46. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    *claps*

    Spoken like a true sp veteran...
     
  47. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    To further breakdown your point:
    Yes

    AndAndAnd - a NEW person who wants to pvp
    Bruin - would pvp if it wasn't for this arti bull****
    Chardonnay - I thought he pvp'd or used to but recently came back
    FrejaSP - one of the last few people out there with the balls to be a red (gotta do some pvp'ing to become red)
    insanepete - can't remember who this is now.
    Kat - pvps
    Krystal - pvps
    Lorddog - don't think he pvp's
    Max Blackoak - used to pvp, prior to all this bull****
    nightstalker22 - pvps
    Sir Morder - pvps
    Speedy Orkit -pvps
    Syrus of Gahd - no idea who this is
    Timothy_SP - I know he's a thief, don't know if he pvps
    Troop - another one who would pvp if it wasn't for this arti bull**** (I believe).


    So of the 15 people who you say voted yes and don't pvp:
    3 - I got no idea if they do/don't.
    5 - do pvp
    6 - would pvp (or used to) if it wasn't for this faction BS.
    1 - doesn't pvp.
     
  48. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    I only voted yes because I want drops increased. I think faction artifacts enhance my play time. *shrugs* Let's me run different templates, have more mods on my suit to tinker with, and something to work for.
     
  49. Diablo FTW

    Diablo FTW Visitor

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    nope