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Increase Imbuing Weight to 550 for PvM Loot

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Old Man of UO, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. Imbuing pretty much killed farming PvM for loot. Monster loot tables are increasingly pathetic and looking for loot just really isn't worth the effort. Most people are out for the arti drops on top end monsters or just don't bother. So far, the Developers have come up with ZERO ideas over the past 4 or 5 years on how to make improvements to loot. Nothing. Nada. Not even a "We are looking into it" in a couple years.

    The current imbuing rules have made it even worse since non-GM items are penalized with a lower imbuing weight, and often spawn with properties that are pretty much useless... for example, UBWS and Mage Weapon on the same item? That shouldn't happen. This needs to be balanced so it doesn't ruin the crafting market, and I'm not really looking for uber items, just a better reason to search the corpse after the kill.

    Here are a few ideas... and please add your own ideas. Some, but not all may work together.

    1) Increase the imbuing weight intensity to 550 for PVM loot
    2) Allow one property to me removed from PVM loot
    3) Allow 6 properties on PvM loot
    4) Increase intensities over all in all PvM loot
    5) Rare chance for any artifact to appear on any corpse - not in your backpack - and very rare
     
  2. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Nah. If you make PvM loot better than crafted loot you nerf player skill. This system is how it should be, where player skill (smith / carp / tailor / tinker etc ... even though jewels are always 500%) matters more than RNG.
     
  3. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    I agree with your overall point, but th 550 idea is a bad one. An item crafted exceptionally by a crafter would suddenly be worse the one found on a lizardman (because the lizard item would only have 10% damage increase, thus offering all possibilities for an imbuer).

    Same goes for the 6 properties idea.

    The be able to remove one property from a found item may work though.
     
  4. I don't want to make PvM loot better than crafter loot, but I think it should be EQUAL. It's not even close at the moment. I don't think it's okay or that the system is how should be. 75%-90% of the game content is in the PvM... and imbuing removed most of the reason to PvM.
     
  5. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Question has to be how good can loot be? I know Strong Box quest loot was crazyballs, and I have some items from loot that are BETTER than what I could ever imbue, intensity wise, but like, if you got a 10 Hit Chance Increase, 10 Defense Chance Increase, 1 Faster Casting, Use Best Weapon, Spell Channeling wep that would give [539.99 INT] ... better than what you could imbue. Now, I'm not sure looted items can still roll 80% 80% 100% 100% 100% ...
     
  6. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    I have spent the time to learn my crafter skills, 120 imbuing, 120 smith, 120 tailor, 100 tink, 100 fletching, 100 carp, masonary and glassblowing, and added that 100 arms lore... and I do the work to get runics, I should be able to use that to get more sophisticated armor/weapons/items.

    Now if we could only imbue spellbooks then casters won't be second class citizens anymore.
     
  7. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but you don't understand my point either. I'm just asking for a better reason to search for PVM loot that imbuing killed.That was a mistake on the Developers' part and I am just asking for some balance here. I'm not asking to nerf crafting at all.
     
  8. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    1) 510 would be better.
    Crafters still have the distinct advantage of burning hammers to get a free property (like 30% SSI)
    PvM loot is capable of being as good as, and very slightly better than crafted items. (always annoying when the numbers fall ever so slightly above the 500 mark).
    Better, but not enough to seriously affect the crafters.

    2) No, too powerful
    3) No, it's good that Thunters have something for themselves.
    4) Maybe some.
    5) No, this penalizes the boss runners. Possibly for minor artifacts.
     
  9. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    This is the way it should have been done. I was under the impression that we would be able to completely remove a property, not just drop it down to 1%.
     
  10. I don't have a problem with the current cap. The problem is with intensity. Amost everything rolls garbage. Even if they raise the cap, what's the point if we only get something slightly usable every thousand or so items.
     
  11. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Pvm loot and specific runic items still craft extremely powerful items if you're willing to spend the time killing/crafting for them. Imbuing only lets you have 2 or 3 max intensity mods on a weapon while pvming/crafting with a runic val hammer can give you 5-6 max intensity mods. Then you have the val crafted samurai armor lol that crap's nuts if you roll the right mods!
     
  12. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    you can still get insane loot off strong box quests. Not more than a year ago I got one from the the quest giver in heartwood (not a strongbox quest either)

    15 ninja
    14 HCI
    15 DCI
    25 EP
    23 DI

    Craft that!!!!
     
  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Player skills have already been nerfed because of imbuing. All trade skills are now mainly used only to create the base item. I strongly agree that monster loot should have the weight intensity increased, so if you find a weapon with decent base mods or elemental damage, you can actually imbue it to the same power / quality of an imbued item. Another idea would be to increase the drop rate of "usable" weapons to at least the drop rate of arties. Armor... well i think thats just a lost cause.
     
  14. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    If we can still get loot like the above, which is 563 intensity (modified weight) if I'm adding correctly, then yeah, PvM loot is fine as I was saying earlier. You just have to kill Peerless, Gauntlet, Champ Bosses, or do Strong Box quests. Then you get access to nice PvM loot :).
     
  15. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    We had Crafting shafted for years once already when Monster Loot was made better than what Crafters could make back around AoS. Lets not shaft the Crafters again.
     
  16. For a long time,PvM loot far out-shined anything that you could make with a crafter. Even with most runics. Let us have our time in the sun,ok?
     
  17. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    A 100% Poison Wep with both UBWS and Mage Wep is godly for training Wep Skills and Magery on a Golem. I made a 100% Poison Dagger with DC Runic Hammers on my Craftsman, and imbued it with -20 Mage Wep/UBWS/30% SSI/40% HLD, and use it to train Wep Skills/Magery on my Pre-Patch Golem. Skills just FLY on him, especially considering the Golem has GM Wrest/GM Tact.
     
  18. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I get what you mean i guess, that now its required that a weapon or amor to be crafted to have max weight, so it makes crafters needed. But... most of the time you only need a crafter to create the exceptional item to Imbue, and Imbuing isnt even crafting, its listed under Magic in your skills.

    Its just sad that Imbuing rules over all the crafting skills, and its not even a trade skill. So, my point is, imbuing really cant be compared to crafting. Not to mention that everything you use to imbue with comes from loot off monsters, so... pvm loot is still basically better than crafted items becuase its what majical artificers use.
     
  19. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    I disagree. It would only stop those farming that are EXPECTING high drop rates for high-end things.

    That's rarely been the case and it was usually because the devs made a mistake or underestimated how easy a creature/task was.

    As for the drops in general... Are you using luck suits consistently? Fighting in groups or singly? Looking for particular combinations only? If the drop doesn't have something you want aren't you melting it down for the materials?

    If not, why?

    Even if you get a garbage piece it still gives you either ingots (if it's really horrible) or possibly up to essence on some. Of course if you only want to craft top-end stuff and ignore anything lesser I suppose you'd get nothing out of it from your perspective.

    One possibility is to add item-id into the mix: if you have item-id on an adventurer then the creature has a small chance for its entire mess of loot to be combined, the total weight to be added, and new pieces to be generated using larger percentages of the weight per piece. Effectively a re-roll of the loot based on the total property levels you initially got. But that's as far a change as I would want.
     
  20. LeBaiton

    LeBaiton New Player Protector
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    Maybe they could add to the imbuing system with help of PvM instead of giving PvM obtained loot the upper hand...

    I have no idea if something like this would be doable, but if they'd change imbuing so that you could "store" a piece of loot's properties onto a storage crystal of some kind, and fit that into the imbuing system, it might mean PvM looting would make sense...

    Say I find a ring with crap mods but it has FCR3. I get my imbuer with the appropriate skill, use the crystal (which could be crafted by glassblowing i.e., or NPC store bought, make it so that crafter made crystals have a higher chance of success or something), and store the mod I want, destroying the item in question. I now have no ring, and a crystal with the FCR3 mod (if it succeeds). This you can use to put on a ring or bracelet (or possibly weapons or shields etc)...

    Or do away with loot completely and just spawn magical residue, enchanted essence and relic fragments on corpses... :p
     
  21. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Let us try to "Enhance" looted items to Exceptional item, increasing the imbuing cap to 500.

    This way ppl could save lots of imbuing mats by using looted base items.
     
  22. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I have to agree, something needs to be done to help renew the rest of the loots that are found on spawns.

    I think having one weapon, at least, or one item with a high intensity, being able to drop would give back what the game had lost when you no longer went looking for that vanquishing weapon.

    Maybe they could run a type of artie system that would place that one item into the loot based on tier and intensity. Maybe even a luck bonus and the number of people in your party could increase the chance of getting a very high intensity item, kind of like rune, power and vanq.

    I had always hoped they would allow certain items to be randomly generated because it would be interesting to see what types of things you would get. Like, being able to find an armour piece with 37 physical or a bracelet, extremely rare with faster cast 3, kind of mimicks the orny.

    Also, I agree, they should add imbuing ingredients or expand on that system to the creatures who are incapable of using it. I know we have the library turn in but with the hunting type system, where you kill a rat man and collect his tail, there should be more of an immediate reward, not something that is redundant.

    When I started playing, I was taught to collect meat and sell it to the butcher and later learned that making bows, I could sell those back and 123 gold pieces or something like that was alot of gold pieces.

    So, to be able to collect some fangs off of a dragon and immediately sell them for gold would add to the looting experience.

    Also, I think, parties should increase the amount of gold by a percentage. So, the gold, rather than being halved between 2 people is increased.
     
  23. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Perfect Idea! I dont know much about game code, but seems like it would be easy enough to implement, like the enhancement of leather, weapons, etc.
    It would give yet another much needed value to true crafters, and would actually make monster loot useable to the established player.
     
  24. Nails

    Nails Journeyman
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    just count pvm loot as exceptional 500 weight and make it remotely useful
     
  25. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    They should be alot better like 800 intensity able because of the randomness and of the constant farming needed for years.
    500 intensity perfect item imbuing takes a few minutes to make and a few minutes to buy the resources. And increasing skill to 120 imbuing takes 1 time 2-3 days or 7 days if they take there time. 1 month if they play like a hour every couple of days. And if they broke and don't know how to get gold there still begginers so they have alot more to worry about than getting imbuing to 120 like buying there first powerscroll or not getting 1 hit killed by a lich. Either way only have to do it 1 time in there life time to make exact items they can use for well I guess either pvm end game rare drops or pvp.
     
  26. Illumina Zero

    Illumina Zero Adventurer
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    I like the idea of what Old Man is saying... Perhaps instead of all PVM loot being able to reach 550pnts. Why not make somekind of strange metal item that spawns on high level monsters, like: Admantium Ring, random mods 550 max intens., possible 6mods, likely comes with 3-6. Thus ruling out the Lizardman theory.

    A little something I would like to add and doesn't belong in this Post. FIX SOME OF THE OLD SCHOOL WEAPONS! Why would I EVER want to use a Halberd anymore? Ornate axe DESTROYS most if not all 2 hnded weapons. Why would I use a viking sword? AWFUL weapon! But I Like the Art! Imbuing cant even fix some of these Wretched Weapons... *Sad day...* Pole Arm weapons should be effective like 2 tiles from the enemy. Isn't that kindof the point of using a Pole Arm? I'm done rambling for the moment.
     
  27. i always thought there should be some 'ancient' items with no properties but have a higher imbuing weight. maybe they need to be identified with high item id when looted, otherwise they remain mundane. maybe these can have between 25-125 extra weight. they could just be an exceedingly rare loot drop from every treasure class.
     
  28. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Neither will work. Neither rare new material or ancient item. The point is not to have rare items as we have that already. Nor to have items that have to rely on imbuing. These have to be random mod items with a huge intensity boost to make it worth while to hunt everything for years to come. Always trying to get something better and knowing that one day the random generator may work on your favor. It could be tommorrow it could be years from now but eventually it will pay of. They are not particular items. They are just the same loot you always get and have to go through the mods. Just that the intensity they bring are not possible on imbuing. This also has to be coupled with increase stats and caps so that the only way to reach these caps is to get lucky one day.
     
  29. I can't see how allowing even 500 point imbuing intensity, or bumping the overall intensity for PvM loot would affect Crafting at all. Most loot has all the wrong properties anyway. Crafting isn't going to die or be hurt by improving PvM loot. Just give us a reason to sort through the loot rather than grabbing the gold and essences.

    You might have a point Kaiser - a chance for a random item with a huge intensity boost (non-artifact) might work. Remember when you could find any item on any creature, though rare for low level creatures? I got a silver vanguishing katana from a mongbat long, long ago. Nice lich killer.

    And I have to agree with Illumina on halberds and old weapons... they are just too slow to be useful, but I like the art too.
     
  30. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    1.) I disagree
    2.) I disagree
    3.) I agree - but only for top mobs like peerless bosses or champs from spawns.
    4.) Yes.. very rarely do I get high intensity drops from named mobs or even peerless, much less high intensity in the mods that matter.
    5.) I hate the rare random drop stuff so I'd disagree on this one.
     
  31. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    PVM loot is in dire need a change. Imbuing has absolutely KILLED peerless farming. All you farm for these days are imbuing ingrediants.

    Going back to what GVP said about how it would kill player crafting. That is 100% wrong. Player crafting will always be OP to farming because of runics. Valorite in particular. Imbuing is a non factor as all you're doing is building a weapon from scratch with pre determined intensity caps.

    Farming can yeild high intensity items but they don't always go together. Just needs to be a better system that generates items with high intensities (depending on luck of course) and item properties.

    Maybe a definite cap. for example,

    3800+ luck you are gauranteed a 6 mod item above a certain intensity rate.
    3500-3800 chance at 6 mod item, % rate fixed.
    3000-3500 something else

    and so on. I dunno, but it would be better that way. Might not always get super elite items, but you have a better shot at it. Also, if a system was generated like this yoiu would have to drastically decrease the amount of loot dropped. Say 5 items per peerless corpse. You would have a few items to choose from, but depending on your luck, you have a chance at acquiring some very unique and excellent items.
     
  32. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Crafting was killed by imbuing as well. gold,agapite,verite,val hammers are useless because of there randomness just like pvm loot compared to the exact matches and simpleness in making suits for yourself. Bronze and other hammers are becoming even less needed because of the many variaty of ways imbuing resources are being introduced into the system.
    So yea everything needs help.
     
  33. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Monster loot is good to me for 3 things:

    1) Unravel to relics
    2) Unravel for skill gain
    3) Save as 'blanks' to imbue, and save on special materials/relics.

    It would be nice to have a system in place where monster loot could exceed what could be created with imbuing, much like crafting can create items superior to imbuing through runics. RNG being the (frustrating) balancing factor.

    If someone got super lucky and found an incredibly high intensity 5-mod item, or a rare 6-mod item, it could be really cool and add some uniqueness to item templates.

    On a related note, why does it take so much work and knowledge to create a nice suit. It's insane what you have to do to compete in this game. No wonder true new or 'casual' players are so rare these days. The bar has been set to heights unobtainable to most... bleh

    As a new player we were happy to get some crappy bone armor, or find a ring with +5 taming. At the high end what can you hope for, except more loot. Loot loot loot........ yay, pixels.
     
  34. Kim Li of LS

    Kim Li of LS Guest

    I would agree with increasing the cap on loot to 500. I do not think an item from a monster should carry more magical capacity than one exceptionally made.

    Maybe have a process (as previously mentioned) to bump loot items intensity cap. If a process is used id say go 505-510 (fixed amount), and make exc items eligible to bump to 500+ the same way.
     
  35. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Higher. Much Higher or the items will not be used only for raw materials for imbuing again which is incredibly easy to get with out killing a single monster. They have to move away from imbuing and be prefered to be used with there random properties.
     
  36. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Before imbuing, there was no real need for PvM loot if you could use val runics or barbed kits (except for jewelry -- and for that, strong boxes were best until nerf). In fact, it was a waste of time to collect most PvM loot when you could craft your own stuff. In that regard, PvM loot hasn't really changed; if you put forth the effort, you should be able to make better things.

    With imbuing, there is now a less-than-best hybrid option, which is now the most efficient method of suiting up. There is less RNG involved, filtered by exceptional items from your crafter but fueled by PvM efforts such as collecting 10 essence. Runics still reign supreme, as they should due to the work it takes to acquire them. However, as mentioned previously in this thread, there are still ways to get items from PvM loot that are BETTER than what you can imbue. In other words, PvM loot can already be above 500% intensity.

    Realistically though, the average person isn't going to acquire verite/val hammers. Instead, they'll use imbuing. As for barbed kits, they're still better than imbuing at times, but 4-5 mods makes them trash more often than not.
     
  37. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    1. PvM loot intensity cap raised from 450% to 500%

    2. Add a new craftable to tailoring & blacksmithy (some sort of a vessel or container) which can be used to "drain" an item property off a piece of armor or a weapon. The contained property could be then applied to a new item within the current imbuing rules.

    3. New item craftable by runic hammers (vessel for BS) and runic sewing kits (vessel for tailoring). The better the hammer/kit, the lesser resources it takes to craft. Multiple charges consumed when crafted with low end hammers/kits.

    4. Improve PvM loot.