1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Instead of Nerf This, Nerf That, Make It That Every Template Has Weakness

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MYUO, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    Nerfing is not a good game design practice. It is basicially linearly increase and decrease some numbers, be it damage output or defense strength. A better practice should be make every template has weakness so that one is not invulnerable any given time. It is like the rock-paper-scissor kind of play. Just make more sophisticated than that. One example, a bard used to be a bane to tamers with their discording and peacing. A template should not be able to stand against every other templates.

    I am sure we will come up with great ideas on how to weave the web.
     
  2. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
    Administrator Professional Governor Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,580
    Likes Received:
    1,842
    Item based game play kills that concept. You can tweak templates to put skills that would offset the weaknesses together. It's how Flavor of the Week/Month Templates come into play.
     
  3. Glacier-GL

    Glacier-GL Guest

    Oh don't worry. SA is coming. I have full faith in them that they'll make another 1 hit kill type template such as the Word of Death/AI Archer. In fact, it seems they put something in the game thats way unbalanced in nearly every expansion, then take about 6 months or more to fix it.

    I don't want the game to die, but at the same time I don't want something put in place that causes PVP to be way unbalanced (it's not too bad right now except for couple things).
     
  4. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    49
    Not bad right now? Tamers are rolling over people. Doens't matter what the temp is. Archer/GDrag, doggie dexxer, dismount/warhorse are all good temps in pvp. Pets are just really imbalanced in pvp right now.
     
  5. I'll happily dispose of said pets whilst you beat their masters senseless for a small fee...

    :D

    I'm no' afeared to take on a Greater Dragon. :gun:
     
  6. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see nerfing as necessary where balance is an issue. If we are playing rock, scissors, paper and for some strange reason you have lava...then what? What the hell do I do with my paper?
     
  7. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,258
    Likes Received:
    14
    Yet they REFUSE to allow bards into pvp. Provoke should be the counter to Taming. Provoke the pets onto their master. All pets should be FULLY prov/peace/disco-able. It's FEL, afterall.
     
  8. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    49
    Unforunately, Ultima usually runs like that for periods of time. The overpowered temp just cooks everything else till it receives a nerf or a more powerful one emerges. There's still plenty of RPS going on but taming temps put the hurt on most if not all other pvp temps right now. Dread Warhorses with their firebreath and Greater Dragons (along with even stronger breath) are just completely busted in PvP. The damage output from those things is pretty ridic. Plus you sure can't turn and fight if you're on foot from a dismount.

    Remember back when Bokuto Mages were the roxx0rs? Now you don't even see any cause a lot of that stuff was nerfed. Stealth archers with deathstrike? No more of those since DS is halved with bows. The list goes on and right now the hardest thing to beat 1v1 is a dismounting tamer. If you can't beat em, shove that paped up your rear and make your own lava. Sooner or later (prolly after SA is released), a new powerhouse temp will emerge.
     
  9. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0

    It has been several years since I played a provoker mage in felucca. That template used to be alot of fun when it worked.

    It is sad and odd that its not a viable felucca skill.

    PS...firehorns in fel were soooooooooo much fun...especially when mixed with a three expl. pot throw. :) Heh...using a bard to defend a choke...now thats oldschool.
     
  10. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0

    Yep...nerfs come and go...but oldschool templates remain the same. Untouched.

    Bok mages? I played one of those for a couple of weeks before the nerf. That was the most rediculous template mage wise I had ever played. IMO it was properly nerfed too...much like the archery "debuff". :p
     
  11. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    49
    What debuff are you speaking of? You mean Quiver of Rage or?
     
  12. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0

    Heh...I meant that sarcastically about archery getting some type of supposed nerf. I guess you could say the quiver was indeed a debuff. :)
     
  13. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    49
    It sure needed that tho. Archers were just hitting WAY too hard. Problem is...so do Greater Drags and you don't need any archery or busted quiver to say "all kill".
     
  14. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have more options when facing a greater dragon. You can...

    A) RUN!!! (live to fight another day)
    B) Kill the unmounted tamer (they are on foot for goodness sake...get creative!)
    C) kill the dragon...(dexxer template...can kill these in four hits if not less)
    D) throw a conflag pot (confused dragon FTW!!!)
    E) Invis (YAY...time to unflag and bugger off!)
     
  15. MYUO

    MYUO Guest

    The point is every template should have its weakness against another template. A framework should be designed to achieve that, instead of plugging holes here and there. The framework should not be rigid as bard>tamer>mage>dexer>bard. Instead, for each skill, there should be another one that owns it. For example: provk/discord/music will own taming/lore/vet, parry/tactics will own archery/bola, explosion and stone throwing... Right now, pretty much any template owns bards so there is no unbalance issue there. The benefit of parry/tactics against projectiles can be scaled based on real skills points so the dexers have to decide whether to be more effective against archers but likely less effective against mages, or vise versa.

    The result will be more diversified templates and team play in pvp.