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Insurance hack, just a baseless rumor ??

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Feb 9, 2010.

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  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    While at a bank, I heard players discussing a rumor that there might be a hack which makes other players loose their insured status and, therefore, loose their items upon their UO death ?

    From what I heard, this is not players not having gold to pay for insurance in bank and loosing it, this is about some hack capable of, who knows how, making targeted players' items become uninsured on the fly and therefore, to fall on corpse and be lootable upon UO death.

    Is this just a baseless rumor or actually something to worry about when in PvP areas ?
     
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I don't think anyone knows for sure. There was one, quite a while ago, I believe. As I understand it at that time players could somehow access your context menu. That was fixed.
    Please bear in mind it is against RoC to discuss hacks and cheats in such a way as anyone may be able to reproduce it. If you have any solid evidence send it to EA.
     
  3. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I don't want to alarm anyone, but I did notice this evening that the talisman my tamer on Origin uses was uninsured this evening. Everything else was insured and I only noticed that it was uninsured because I happened to pull up the new Insured Items gump. I have no idea when it became uninsured or how it happened.

    That character hasn't died since the new system went into effect on Origin, so there's no possibility that the loss of insured status on that one item is because the new system failed to recognize it for reinsurance upon death. However, I'll be keeping a close eye on all my characters' belongings on Origin and would strongly encourage anyone else who plays there to do the same. I'm quite concerned at this point.
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Understand, just trying to figure out whether one should or not be "extra" cautious to adventure in PvP ruleset lands.......

    I mean, should such a hack really exist, it could cost an unaware player very, very, very dearly.....

    Better be informed of all the risks involved, ain't it ?
     
  5. ZippyTwitch

    ZippyTwitch Lore Keeper
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    Well after seeing this thread I thought I would post what happened to me couple weeks ago. I was sitting at the ywe fel gate. There was only one other person around at the time. I was blue and he was red but we weren't fighting or anything. Just sitting there. My hands were not even on the keyboard or mouse when I see a system message in the bottom left corner of my screen that says 'your warfork has now become uninsured". Well right away I reinsure it and it stayed insured. But it freaked me out that it would just randomly uninsure. So naturally I'm assuming some type of cheat or hack.
     
  6. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I had an incident a few days back with my characters gear being uninsured.

    My gargoyle made a trip to Titan valley in Tram T2A and got triple-whammyed by a Titan. I used the Help I'm stuck option to be moved to where a healer was available and found all his insured gear gone. I recovered the gear which showed uninsured and found his auto-reinsure was turned off. He doesn't get dirtnapped often but gear was auto-reinsuring in the past and he had plenty of gold. I don't PvP.

    Think I'll check the other eight characters after maintenence is done.
     
  7. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    In the middle of a pvp battle I got an icq from an old guildmate that now fights in the opposing side...

    It was a warning to leave the area and stop fighting that particular guild, that something was about to happen to my friends that were fighting at an idoc...

    I wasn't at the pvp location but I went in our own vent and tried to warn them... It was too late... two of the players had lost their suits.


    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1502417#post1502417



    The Irony here... EA is now changing/upgrading the insurance system... *coughs*
     
  8. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Hmm...

    I thought it was just a slip up by me somehow but maybe not, a char i pvp on alot last night died, had tons of gold in my bank, and has died many times before.

    When i died i went to re-dress my suit and hovered over my gloves and saw it was uninsured...thens aw everything was uninsured...go into my context menu and realize auto reinsure items upon death was turned off. I'm like..WTH i didn't recall clicking on my context menu all night but figured, heh, my fault im sure, i clicked it, killed myself a few times, logged in and out, and it stayed auto reinsured after that. Was odd.
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    My opinion is, that if this hack exists then players should be made FULLY aware of the risks of adventuring PvP ruleset areas, currently.

    Keeping the issue hush hush might eventually upset VERY MUCH some players even to the point of costing subscriptions to the game.

    I have no idea whether it is merely a voiced rumor or whether the hack exists, but I do think that if a risk exists, then all players should hear about such a possibility and watch their steps.

    Also, I would hope that given the seriousness and potential cause of loss of subscriptions to the game for players getting upset, Game Masters are monitoring PvP areas diligently and watching closely any and all players who might be making use of such an hack (should it really exist) and ban such players and their Guilds without appeal, given the seriousness and gravity of such an offense.

    Any offense which might cause losses of subscriptions to the game should be dealt with with the seriousness it deserves, IMHO.
     
  10. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The existence of insurance hacks, generally speaking, is surely not a baseless rumor.

    Whether or not any particular incident of losing an insured item, which is not due to the "victim" player's error, is due to a hack or to a simple bug?

    Who knows?

    With the insurance system being changed, though, I'd be surprised if bugs and hacks did not come up.

    Quite sad.

    Beware, also, of players on the boards downplaying the importance of such things by saying things like "it's ok, we have Imbuing now, everything can be replaced," or "insurance is just for care bears anyway," or blaming every incident on the "victim" player, or denying the existence of such hacks and bugs.

    And that is sadder still.

    -Galen's player
     
  11. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    This morning, while I was getting showered and dressed, I remembered that my tamer on Origin had two or three close encounters of the PvP kind last week. With playing so many shards, I had forgotten which tamer that happened with.

    When I get a few minutes later this morning, I'll be digging up the date and times of those incidents and firing off a feedback form to EA with the information about my character, the characters I ran into, location, date, and times. Maybe with Origin being a special type of test server EA can check history on the characters that were there and see if anything fishy happened. The talisman that went uninsured is dyed with slime dye, so maybe that will make it just unique enough that its status can be tracked.
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Nonetheless, Catlord's Post (http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1603365#post1603365) makes me thinking and quite some....


    My biggest concern is of the consequences of such a hack, should it really exist, in terms of emptying further more PvP ruleset areas and making more players upset over losing their insured items which could lead to subscriptions being closed and thinning more the player base of the game and so the resources available for its upkeep.

    IMHO, this is by no means something that should be downplayed given the risks and consequences involved for the game; and players who think they suffered from this, should report in details their incident to Game Masters who should investigate suspects with all tools at their disposal and, should the hack exist and be used by some players, ban these players and do something about their Guilds if they make wide spread usage of it.

    At least, that is how I personally see it.
     
  13. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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  14. I've played around on Origin since the new patch and have died a few times so far and yet to have anything come uninsured or have anything else weird happen.

    I've asked several people who PvP on Origin on a regular basis and no one has had an insurance problem as of yet.

    I do know that you need to make sure you check whats suppose to be insured and pay close attention to what boxes are checked and what isnt, along with what shows up as red in the menu. I almost did miss an item in the menu.
     
  15. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    I have played on origin and had no such thing happen, could be an accidental mistake on the players part. It happens...

    Ive played many different characters and died and have no lost anything.
     
  16. CatLord

    CatLord Guest


    The whole story was...

    The Catskills Alliance grew and we had about 11-17 different players in Felucca 24/7...
    - spawning
    - idocing
    - pvping

    We rocked some of the established veterans and intruded on their ability to idoc and place keeps uncontested...
    They tried to fight back... but our numbers and stuburness granted us some victories... while losing was considered a lesson... and we grew strong...

    When there was no other way to stop us... this was used... 6 suits in less than one week on different Alliance members...

    So we had many players moving back to Trammel... and it forced us to re-think our feluccan strategy...

    We imbued 20 lrc spawning suits... (if we lose them, we lose them)
    We started to fight back using stealth archer ninjas...


    ... and that is where we are now... midstep in this War.
     
  17. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    I don't know, but awhile back they made it so you could not sell insured items. Now I have almost always made my own stuff so I insure it when I first put it on. I think there was a problem with trading insured things and buying them. So if you buy in trade window or just get traded an item, always uninsure and reinsure it. Maybe that is the problem, but who knows it has been rumored for along time and has made many not want to go to Fel. Guess it needs more looking into.
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I added the bold to that part because that is my biggest concern and fear over all this.
    That, should the hack exist, the scruplessness of a few players to use such a devastating hack could hurt the game making at the very least PvP suffer from it if not also cause more losses of subscriptions and therefore resouces to the game.
     
  19. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I've never had it happen to me on any shard either. Not once. That's why I was very stunned to see that item uninsured.

    In any event, I just e-mailed EA all the details about that talisman and the character using it...when the character was created, when the talisman was acquired, when it was transferred to Origin, when it was probably first insured, blah blah blah. Maybe with Origin having a somewhat special status and the item's unique number from the translog, they can track down when it became uninsured.
     
  20. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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  21. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    FWIW an insurance bug has been an ongoing myth for a while now, please refrain from spreading rumors and causing paranoia amoungst players. People just double check if your stuff is insured. If you have lost something on TC or Origin since this last publish...please post here, otherwise refrain from spreading a "baseless rumor" as popps stated in the OP. I do not think this is a bug, I have heard a few stories of this in past, usually resulting from a player forgetting to insure something, or having auto renew turned off, or any other form of accidental conduct. I understand your concern Tina, my gut feeling says it was a player mistake somehow, it happens, accidentally unchecking it, or running low on gold at one point and was not able to reinsure. This is usually the scenario. I wont jump to judgement until we hear from others in the new publish to see if a significant # of similar instances are happening or if it is just an isolated instance here or there which would lead me to believe it was some form of player error.
     
  22. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

  23. I have to say that I agree.

    Double check your insurance, make sure that you didnt accidently cancel your auto renew while toggling the new insurance menu or something.
    Kill your char a couple times to make sure everything is insured.
    Last night I killed a blue on Origin and he was worth almost 14k in insurance, so make sure you have enough gold in the bank to cover your items!

    The only people who get "hacked" are those who dont follow two simple rules... never accept anything from anyone outside of game and use it in game, you guys should know what I'm talking about without me spelling it out, and dont give out account info...

    LIke I said, SEVERAL ppl on Origin have had NO issues what so ever insurance wise since the new publish

    So lets stop freaking ppl out with "rumors"

    **Edit** I am not saying that Tina didnt have something weird happen, I am just saying that I doubt it was an insurance "hack".
     
  24. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Publish 64?
     
  25. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Insurance bug/hack is a myth created and supported by two types of people.

    Type 1:

    Veteran players that forgot to insure, forgot to auto-renew, or ran out of gold. This player wants to save face and not be embarassed.

    Type 2:

    This player has no knowledge of the game mechanics and honestly believes that they were hacked. They will often create lies and make up stories to support their claim.

    The instances and scenarios that you will see certain Catskills players reference in this thread fall under type 2.
     
  26. yeah the newest publish everyone is waiting to go live everywhere else.
     
  27. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Up until now I've tried to avoid jumping on the "OMG there's an insurance hack" bandwagon. But I've seen enough and heard enough over the years to believe it and other hacks DO exist.

    It makes no sense to me why that one item is uninsured.....I don't trade it with other characters and that character's never had less than a couple million in gold in her bank account since acquiring the talisman almost two years ago. Since that character was created, I've always had the option in place to have to hold down the Shift key to use the context menu. I started using that option a few years ago when a PvP guild I belonged to on GL experienced unexplained events with regard to insured items dropping to corpses or finding that their stuff was inexplicably uninsured. Supposedly having to hold down the Shift key to use context menus is supposed to help make the hacking a bit more difficult.

    So, with that option in place and with the talisman never being off her paperdoll other than when/if she died since putting it on her, I'm finding it a bit hard to believe I "accidentally" uninsured it. I also always keep the journal open and look at it frequently while playing, so the yellow message you get when you uninsure something should have been noticeable. And the nice big RED message you get when you have insufficient amounts to reinsure items definitely would have stood out in the journal. And because many of my characters are regularly in Fel, I'm generally pretty paranoid about keeping their stuff insured.

    I sent the information I have to EA. It's up to them to do what they can with it. If they can use the item ID from the transfer log when I moved it to Origin to trace its history and find out I'm just a flaky old lady who never insured it, fine and dandy.
     
  28. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Lady... you sure are special.
     
  29. Divster

    Divster Guest

    Never encountered any "hack" but I did (years ago to be honest) die in a pvp fight (to a friend) who found my orny insured and on my corpse. Upon returning it to me I got him to reskill me and low and behold it stayed with me untill I ressed. This friend was in same room as me playing on a diff comp and showed me my orny on my own corpse.

    Luckily I have never encountered this in any other form or lost anything since, but it has stuck with me as I know for certain that it was insured *shrugs*
     
  30. chad

    chad Sage
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    QFT
     
  31. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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  32. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    It is fun to have hard evidence to back up a myth isn't it?

    Now where is the bigfoot?
     
  33. BlackMagus

    BlackMagus Guest

    Note that the nature of the problem, according to the description in this blog post, requires an attacker to utilize a hack utility actually running on the target players PC.

    And seriously, if you download "gameplay enhancement" tools from dubious sources to aid your bad pot throwing aim, or run everything someone sends you via ICQ, this will get you infected with trojan horses. And then, UO insurance hacks will be the least of your problems... :)
     
  34. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    Note that the blog is almost 3 years old I believe and also is talking about past things he has worked on so that means this "bug" could be 3-5 yrs old or older...And would be fixed by now according to what he is saying.
     
  35. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    ... and you deserve everything that you will get.


    I Just had a funny thought... if anything goes sour on this thread we can blame Popps for starting it... HAR HAR!

    Popps you troublemaker! Love you Brother!
     
  36. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Wow, did it really go over your head?

    Just because a person honestly believes they were the victim of a hack, doesn't mean that they actually were. It just means that they are stupid and have no clue what they are talking about. By telling made up stories, i'm referring to the ICQ logs that have conversations of people admitting to using said hack.

    I'm not going to get drawn into an argument with you, because frankly you are uninformed and will try to give me a grammar lesson.

    Maybe you and Pitr could work together to reply with a poem that I could disregard like the rest of your posts.
     
  37. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    You would be amazed at how many bugs/cheats would get fixed quickly if stratics and other high traffic MMO sites encouraged players to post detailed instructions on how these things worked.

    Hell, look at what has to happen to a hugely profitable company like Microsoft when an exploit is exposed. They won't even give you the time of day if you explain a windows exploit to them. However, threaten to expose it to the world by a certain date and watch them jump. Even then, sometimes it TAKES exposing it to the world to get them to fix it.

    Makes no sense at all to keep these things hidden so only those in the 'know' can keep exploiting it. The only reason it is this way is to keep EA happy.
     
  38. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    So, what is this?

    If a problem with insurance happens in PvM it must be a "bug" or they "forgot to insure it?"

    But if it happens in PvP it must be a "hack?"

    I still fail to see how another player can tell your client to uninsure an item. Unless perhaps you have some program or virus on your computer that the other player is controlling.
     
  39. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    1) puncuate please.

    2) What you call a baseless rumor, we call having a topic of discussion.

    3) Your guts probably wrong, that's my gut feeling.

    I lost a pair of storm grip gloves, that I 100% know was insured and I have the gold. This wasn't even during a PvP scenario.

    Players, hacking into someones account, an account paid for by a credit card, and across state lines, is serious gaga......whether you agree or not, I have an attorney in the family. This topic came up once.

    Anyone doing this is very confident, doesn't care about the law, willing to suffer the consequences, or is very, very dense.

    later
     
  40. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hehehehhehe............
     
  41. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, but at least, IMHO, at the VERY LEAST, it grants -given the seriousness of the problem AND the vast consequences it might have on game play and the game itself-, a comprehensive investigation on players' reports to verify 100% (no room for doubts with such a sensitive issue) whether such hack exists or not.

    The thing is, that "if" the hack exists and players are losing their high value stuff over it and quit the game who loses ? The game itself loses as PvP lands become emptier, shards become emptier and, consequentially, everyone looses because the game empties out.

    Perhaps it's enough to make VERY sure, 100%, that either there is no hack OR that if there is a hack this is found and fixed ?

    Just perhaps ??
     
  42. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Prolly using new accounts with characters that aren't that valuable... using a voodoo doll with the victims name...

    To be honest, I don't care how it is done... I just want to be able to see my friends enjoy pvp and spawning without fear of losing their gear...

    Until then we use suits created by the "artisans of GRI"... which will hurt if lost... but we can always make more.

    (SPECIAL THANKS to Adell... he made 20 6 piece suits with all 70 resists after casting protection, 6 mr, 42 mana increase, 100 lrc... ring and bracer and other items excluded...)
     
  43. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, while I can imagine a human being tinkering with programming and software to hack someone else, I have a hard time imagining a Balron or a Peerless MoB tinkering with human players' computers to uninsure their stuff..........




    Well, some dupes I also found amazing and incredible to believe them and yet, they were for real.......
    It is incredible how until something is discovered it might be unthinkable of and then, when the hows of it are found, one thinks "but of course".......................
     
  44. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    out of topic... an ethereal mount went wild last night... so ... happens.
     
  45. EDA_GL

    EDA_GL Journeyman
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    The only time that I have EVER dropped a suit was when we were doing a harrower, and my tamer's job was to drag away a poison ele. It killed me and I noticed that all my stuff appeared to be on my body. Once rezzed I had my jewelry and my mask still in my back pack, but not insured. I checked my house placement tool (everyone should have one in a characters back pack) and low n behold, I had just under 1k left. Had a guild mate loot my stuff, insure it and I postponed killing the harry until I grabbed a 1mil check from my house. Cashed it and have never had a problem since.
    All of my other characters have been around since pre AOS, and thats the only time anything has happened to me. Yes, it was my fault for dropping my stuff. It will not happen again.

    Things I always keep in each characters possession:
    Loose gold in bank (not 100% if this matters, but I do regardless)
    1 mil+ in check form (safety)
    House placement tool (checked at every login)

    If you accept a file/program from someone you just met...you should just quit UO, or have the ability to reproduce taken away from you.
     
  46. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The best fix to this, IMHO ?

    Finally get rid of the items' curse in Ultima Online, at least for PvP, and go back to a mostly SKILL based PvP combat dynamics rather than the current item/modifiers based.

    This way, no worry about losing items over a PvP fight............

    Problem solved once and for all.
     
  47. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

    Brother, I just got to legendary imbuer... we can have this discussion again in 2-3 years...
     
  48. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Ever tried buying anything from players' vendors while NOT having any gold coins in bank, ONLY bank cheques ?

    Well, the amount purchased WILL be withdrawn from the cheque and NOT converted into gold coins.

    What I am trying to say, is that it would be VERY easy to finally get rid of the guessing whether something is strange about items losing insurance or not.

    Just make it so that automatic re-insuring takes the money from gold coins AND cheques (just like vendors' payments do....), and if players STILL get their items uninsured well, then something WILL DEFINATELY have to look strange.......

    So, step 1 I think should be making insurance payable off cheques also, and then step 2 would be monitoring whether players are STILL reporting their items losing insurance status.

    At that point, if players still report items losing their insurance well, then Houston we do have a problem..........
     
  49. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    I asked plain and simple for those who have been "insurance hacked" to come forward and so far its been a bunch of crybabies with no evidence whatsoever for the most part. Its a Salem Witch Hunt orchestarted by none other than Stratics #1 Pot Stirrer. I am not claiming that someone is hacking peoples accounts and uninsuring their items and breaking any laws...so you and your lawyer friend can go and...well...nvm

    The OP asked if this was a hack or a baseless rumor...I see no real evidence supporting his theory. The general fact that he started this thread because he overheard soemone at a freaking bank stating oh no I lost my insured items by an insurance hack makes me chuckle. Its also rather amusing that he used just that to start a thread which in a matter of hours he sent the thread off on a tangent relating back to why people don't play fel and how EA will risk losing subscribers, etc. etc. Same ole song and dance we have all come to know...

    And if you want to call the grammar police, go for it...As popps said in the OP, I would really hate to "loose" my grammar citizenship.

    So what I call a baseless rumor, you call a topic of discussion...

    Well what you call "a topic of discussion," I call a Salem Witch Hunt:

    Uninformed people with prejudice assuming they know somethings up without any real proof and going on a crusade rather than simply asking for facts to better understand the situation.
     
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