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Insurance would save Siege

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Hattori Hanzo, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. Hattori Hanzo

    Hattori Hanzo Lore Keeper
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    - 50,000gp per insured item (another value perhaps?).
    - Only triggered when killed and looted by a player, his summons, fields, or pet.
    - Gold goes to the bank of the person dealing the death blow, popping the corpse, or both (which would you prefer?).

    Players moving here can again feel the thrill of a battle with consequences (the reason we all play (ed) here to begin with).

    Then turn up Doom artifact and Tokuno drops so everyone can have (and keep) their stuff, but pay a price for it if they die. The incentive to PK is winning a lot of gold from kills to buy arties off vendors ran by the PVMers that farm them up.

    PVM would be very worthwhile and dangerous. Everything worth insuring would have a value of more than 50k (or whatever insurance is set at). Hunting the artie farmers would be great fun.

    Keep the damn faction gear since it seems to be here to stay, based on all the multi-colored, all caps, bold font I am seeing in another thread.
     
  2. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver King of The Bearded Ladies
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    sounds gooooood that way people would insure only a cpl items unless ur ballen and everyone could run their uber suits knowing they'd have it back instead of searching for them!
     
  3. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I sure hope you are kidding.

    It would kill Siege
     
  4. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    You're going to have a lot of haters, but I agree with the direction you're going on this. To me, Siege is more about minimal safety zones, being able to fight wherever I want, taking over a farming spot or champ spawn if I so desire. Not about whether I can insure something.
     
  5. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    There would be no need for crafters after a short time and no need for farmers, all would run in same suit for years, just like I had been using same bow for years because I can bless it.

    Someone here need to leave Siege and stay on normal shards.
     
  6. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    no to insurance... keep it full loot. If you notice, UO is trying to move away from unlimited insurance. Faction items and even imbuing has limited repair.

    However, fix risk vs reward for PvM on Siege.


    How many people on siege actually use the museam rewards? Other than house deco?

    That alone should tell us that something is wrong. There's no proper reward for taking some of the risks we are forced to take here.

    Risk vs Reward needs to be addressed.
     
  7. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    When you ask someone to open their minds and consider your ideas even though they may disagree, wouldn't it suit you best to do the same rather than trying to re-ram your ideas back down their throat?
     
  8. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    I hope to never see insurance on Siege, even if it was insanely expensive because of this:

     
  9. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I have to agree with BR, many of Sieges problems comes of, that everything is balanced of Insurence.

    noone will work hard to get a PvP items from this turnins when you can lose it easy, so on Siege, it should take less work to get this items.

    I also like that Insured items do have a limit in repaits, even when most won't keep them long enough here for it to become a problem.

    Siege is meant to be for all playstyles, not only the PvP'ers.
     
  10. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    This. But I applaud you for trying to find an alternative we might otherwise not see.
     
  11. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    Yet you want to dictate which playstyles are valid? You want to make the choice for them by getting rid of faction arties. This system is not here for a select few, it is there for EVERYBODY to choose. Faction arties don't make everyone better the instant you put them on, they simply make it easier to put your suit together. If youd like me to prove that throw one of your characters in factions and get a suit together. I will put an imbued suit together and still be able to kill you easily. That same suit though, would take me a lot longer to piece up, and that is a major point why I want faction arties to stay.
     
  12. Hattori Hanzo

    Hattori Hanzo Lore Keeper
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    I respectfully disagree with you. Crafters have always been prominant on prodo, where there is ZERO risk of losing a suit. Its because people don't just wear the same thing forever.

    Granted, if the population stayed what it is, some might wear what they have and be done with it. But, we have to think about what Siege could be; a growing community where people change templates and move up in items as their characters evolve.

    Hopefully you are not inviting me to leave for starting a discussion.
     
  13. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    With imbuing, there is no need for factions items. I do not mind to see better cursed artifact drop too replace the factions items.

    Cursed artifacts will be useable for all and I guess I can unraw them, even when you factions dye them.

    I don't like the split, where factions players think they are an elite who don't need the rest of the community.

    No but it sure give them better card on their hand


    You won't see me in faction but I don't mind testing my imbued vs your faction. I may still die as I'm an old lady and very rusty, had not really PvP'ed the last years :)
    I'm sure I will last longer in my new suit, than I did in gm armor.

    It do however have to wait to tomorrow as my clock say 4 am and I have to get up in an hour, should had been sleeping nicely right now but could not sleep :(
     
  14. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    I agree for the most part but I'd lower the per item cost to 10 x prodo cost; anymore would make ita rich man's game imo. Maybe even jack up the rate of duraility loss on insured items as well. To me siege = No trammel, no selling to npcs, and playing a red being a more viable playstyle than on any other shard (back in the day this ment no stat loss, now maybe it should mean being able to pruchase from select vendors and the ability to use virtue powers).
     
  15. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    Crafters and farmers are raking it in hand over fist on atl; combine your propsoed change with an extra char slot and some form of granfathered house and you have a winning three pronged plan to both increase and maintain this servers population. IMO it would take alot less dev time to do this than other suggestions I have heard.

    Thank you for having the stones to voice such a hated opinion; you are not alone.
     
  16. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    I think there's like twenty something servers that has insurance already...please go there if you want insurance...
     
  17. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I don't get it, we do have 20 shards with item insurance, why should we need it here?

    Items need to be easy to replace but no item insurance have to stay on Siege. want Item Insurance, play one of the 20 shards who have it.
     
  18. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Because secretly they are prodo trash and they want to keep their pixel crack while ruining sp...because i bet you a nickel 95 if they could transfer off sp they would do it tonow...
     
  19. Hattori Hanzo

    Hattori Hanzo Lore Keeper
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    I find it funny that some of you simply bash ideas and invite people to leave Siege, in threads where we are trying to find ways to get people to come here.

    I play Siege already. I don't need insurance. I just recognize why people are leaving and offered something for people to discuss.

    Do you even play on Siege any more Chardonnay? Because your smart ass responses are more a part of the problem than anything close to an answer. If you do play here, you may like the empty shard where no one will hurt you. Otherwise, how about some decorum. If you do not play here, I invite you to join us.

    I play here and I want the shard to grow. I am also willing to listen to any ideas and give constructive critisism, not simply tell people to leave or call them names because I don't like their ideas.
     
  20. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    I have been discussing setting up a "guild night" where a few of us sp dedicate it to playing on siege for the evening with dante and will be talking with others to do the same. Most likely we will choose a place call it ours (despise most likely) and wait for the rest of the shard to find us; if action ensues from this then it probably will be a weekly thing. If no action then we will probably get bored and log on to atl to kill some folks.

    Kinda off topic but it does show that we have some interest in playing here some.
     
  21. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    hrmm !!

    I came to Siege because there was NO insurance.
    Insurance is addictive and on Chesapeake they insure EVERYTHING !

    Course at 50k gp to insure even 1 item, folks would not be insuring much.

    But I do not see how a newer player that wanted to pvp here, could afford that high of insurance for 1 item let alone some entire suit they may finally get or afford to use to pvp in.

    I think I would rather see some form of increased Siege bless items so those whom may wish to pvp and are new here but still broke, may finally get 4-5 pieces they like that they can SIEGE BLESS, thus get to keep on them.

    That would of course, not be as much fun, ie no gp to collect to the victor from their *insurance* when they get pkd. But then the richer here do not need gp from a kill, the newer poorer just want a fighting chance to begin to play pvp if that is what they came here for.

    I would be more for increasing the 1 Siege bless item to 4-5 items, so that newer players here could *bless* what they may consider their entire suit to fight in, and Siege would still remain *uninsured* as it was intended to be. Increasing the Siege bless items to 4 or 5 they still have to chose wisely like we do with Siege 1 bless item, but with an increase in Siege bless items at least they get a bit more diversity and have to still choose wisely which few items they *Siege bless* atm.

    50k though seem high, if yall go for this then the newer poor may only afford ONE item to insure ... it still does not seem that much to motivate them to come here since it would be so costly for them to insure 1 suit entirely. Course I guess if they win a fight they NET YOUR GOLD insured items !
    It could be an incentive for them to become better at pvpin here, I guess. :)

    Up to yall, since I do not pvp here, but I did come to Siege because there was no insurance here. If I want insurance I coulda/woulda stayed on Chesapeake where folks even insured my 100gp gm tailored boots just to keep the mark so they insured em and so I CAME HERE to craft. hrmm :(


    I do not feel insurance on Siege will save Siege, I mean afterall if they wish to pvp with insurance....why come here ? They can stay on all done established chrs. where they ARE with 5-6 alts per acct., where they have gp galore and homes and already can INSURE their suits and everything else they wish to insure.

    I have never liked insurance since it was introduced into this game, but then I am a die hard anti in game insurance sort of customer, or I never would have come to Siege to begin with, so do not listen to me. :)
     
  22. Touzoko

    Touzoko Certifiable
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    I have no need of insurance: the templates I play aren't generally dependent upon items. However, that isn't the case with everyone.
    Knowing the time spent by our fine and dedicated crafters, knowing some people would never come here without insurance, knowing Siege is more costly than prodo shards, maybe something like this:

    if insurance ever does come here, when an item is insured, if an item is insured, it's durability is immediately halved from whatever it is (or set at 100 or 75 or even 50 whatever) and it is now unimbuable, and unfortifiable.
    Just throwing out thoughts and ideas.
     
  23. CroakerTnT

    CroakerTnT Guest

    I see that as being too expensive to be worth the trouble.

    I don't like insurance. It makes thieves irrelevant.

    I think the two things that I'd hold the line on are 1) no insurance and 2) no trammel (or any other area where people cannot be attacked or stolen from).

    From what I've heard, the main reason people don't want to come here is the training time. Blackrock could change that.

    Another option is naked character transfers, but I'm suspicious that this would open the door to duping, which destroyed the prodo economy. If we could be sure of the latter, I'd have no problem with the former - provided there is no transfer of prodo gold or items to siege. Pets in the stable and perhaps soulstones should be the limit.
     
  24. Symma

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    I would not like to see any form of insurance.

    If it came here, no matter the cost of insuring each item, you might as well take out the Perilous in the shard name.

    I agree something needs to be done, but not this.
     
  25. Patty Pickaxe

    Patty Pickaxe Certifiable
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    I will bend on the 2nd char slot, grandfathered houses, almost anything but this. I'm sorry. I agree with most of the reasons stated so far- no need to repeat. I tend to agree with BR :)eek:) in that they way to go is to increase loot drops- arties, marties, farties, ingredients, and whatever else would make it easier for everyone to run good gear and feel less fearful of losing it. But then again, I am just a crafter in retirement. I am not sure what my opinion is worth on this topic.
     
  26. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I'd rather have 'char duping' than shard transfers. A copy of a prodo shard char, skills only - as displayed on uo.com character search. No actual movement between shards involved.
    Since I only run with gear I've made anyway insurance is meaningless to me. On that aspect of Siege I'm happy with the status quo.
    Actually, if it were possible, I'd favour something like 'young' status - Chars immune from player attack for the first few weeks. If you read posts from players who came and didn't stay they mostly cite being murdered when they had no chance, no gear and no funds to replace. They come expecting to fight. They don't come expecting to be slaughtered like cattle.
     
  27. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    As you all know, I've been playing ATL where insurance exisits..

    However! I am *Very* against Insurance on Siege..

    The *Only* Problem with gear is the ammount of time it requires to get it.. Which is why faction silver is the "Best" System on Siege right now.. It allows us to make powerful suits at less than HALF the time it would otherwise take.

    The only exception to this rule is Imbue.. Now there are people arguing that.. Well Imbue is just fine!!

    Heres why that is.. Wrong.

    Imbuing is meant for 2 Things.

    1. An Extremely Powerful Siege Blessed item.
    2. Average Imbued gear to fill in the slots that Arties cannot go.

    With a Full suit of Imbued gear, we effectively lose Tons of templates.. The only temps that Full Imbued Suits are effective on are Bush Dexxers, Or dexxers that have HCI on their weapons, Without arties mages cannot run the suits to counter the HCI that a 120 Skill and Blessed weapon can give. ( 120 Bush Lightning Strike - 5 Mana, 50% HCI, 20% Crit [35 Damage] | And Hit Lower Defense - -25% DCI )

    It is almost impossible to run 70% DCI (HCI/HLD Immune) with a Pure Imbued suit (No arties) while also running 2/6 Casting with only 1 Hand occuiped.

    15% DCI Blessed weapon or Shield. 1/2 ring with 15% DCI, 1/3 brace with 15% DCI. That is 45% DCI (Which would be 20% After HLD) meaning you would need to run a Weapon & Shield at 15% DCI to get 60% DCI.



    On the Flip side Max HCI only takes 120 Bushy and a Siege blessed weapon with HLD, while being able to hit for 35 20% Of the time at 3-5 Mana Per.

    120 Bushy, Blessed weapon with HLD...
    OR
    Blessed weapon with HLD, 15% HCI. 15% HCI Ring. 15% HCI Brace..

    We take All Arties out of the Mix and caster templates will no longer exist.

    All of that.. is why we do not want *Pure* imbued suits, and Once again.. Real pvpers will know exactly why this is the case, While the "Pretend" pvpers wont see the problem or be able to understand it.
     
  28. Prosopopeya

    Prosopopeya Guest

    always i think, that best way for all mmprg with full loot are,
    if anyone kill another player and have best sui, armour, jewel, they can change ur for other but not give all. Player that kill another can do better suit but player dead, can rez recovery corpse and with poor suit can play, and fight to recovery u lost suit.

    and another change are, that only can loot player that do more damage at player died. or frist player to open corpse..

    the poor to die, no is die, no is lost suit, is canĀ“t continue fighting, playing

    sorry for my poor english
     
  29. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    People are already playing the other shards. The point is to try to get some of them over here.
     
  30. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Siege is not for all, let them stay there. :)
     
  31. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
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    And those of us that are in factions are the elitists?
     
  32. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    We do not need the elitists if they don't need us (the rest of the shard):p
     
  33. Afterglow

    Afterglow Seasoned Veteran
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    no, just the ones that have the loudest voice. Siege is much more then PvP.
     
  34. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    Some folks would rather cut off thier nose to spite thier face and be "right" than entertain any idea of compromise. The funny thing is without the pvpers the economy is crap and the most vocal people seem to be those who DO NOT PVP. A no tram shard w/o a healthy population of pvpers is pretty pointless imo.
     
  35. Scuzzlebutt

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    Who said anything about not needing other players? You are the one trying to exclude people and make their playstyle fit into your parameters. You're arguement is that no one will need crafters if there is insurance? The fact is most people don't need them now, 90% of the shard either has a crafter/imbuer of their own or are guilded with several. Adding new blood to the shard would have that opposite effect for an extended period as these new players will need to be supplied. At first with training gear, then with advanced gear and finally once their bankboxes started to fill they would again need high end gear.
     
  36. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Oh, I understand and completely agree. I think the idea Hat has proposed and the direction he's taken it is a good one.

    I just can't support anything that takes us away from full loot. I believe it's a part of the core values of this shard (and why the no [blessed] item discussions come up when we get those kinds of items.)

    I'd love to see even more ideas from people. This kind of creative thinking is what we need.

    IMO the core attributes of Siege are:

    Player accountability (limited character slots)
    No 100% safe zones (trammel)
    No stat loss
    Full loot (no insurance)
    Player driven economy (no selling to NPCs and incentives to not buy from them)
    Risk Versus Reward (properly balanced of course.)

    Anything else is fair game.
     
  37. Hattori Hanzo

    Hattori Hanzo Lore Keeper
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    Thanks for the debate.

    The shard needs an influx of people to counter the natural attrition. But, we also need to try to keep people here. IMHO the worst part is that people are leaving Siege for prodo shards. That is new.

    The one thing I most oppose is the "don't like it, go ahead and leave" mindset some express. Siege has been showing people the door as long as I have been here and many have voted with their feet.

    Thus we sit atop a kingdom that has dwindled to nearly nothing... lonely.
     
  38. Mr.StinkyPants

    Mr.StinkyPants Slightly Crazed
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